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General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 04:40:05 AM

Title: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 04:40:05 AM
My problem is I massively struggle against anything quicker than medium pace. I can block the ball all day long but struggle to go after the bowling - primarily because I pick up the ball too late.

How can I get better against the quicks ?

Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Hoover on January 22, 2015, 07:01:19 AM
Hi. Try this.
pick your bat up way earlier than you normally do . Even try taking your back your back foot across and back to near the off stump. From there you have and extra yard to pick up the ball and only your downswing to concern yourself with. the main thing is a way earlier pick up.It will feel wierd at first , but I hope you will find it makes dealing with the quicks more manageable.Youtube Alec Stewart, he did this really well.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on January 22, 2015, 07:31:05 AM
A couple of bit of help I can offer mate as I much prefer fast bowling to slow/medium.

First the misconception is that you need to "hit" the ball by this I mean smash it when you just need to make contact and have your weight going into the shot. A firm base will generate power from the solid base so a solid checked drive in a defensive manner will get you runs in using boundaries when times. By this is about having your head and weight coming forward and your back let solid so you don't walk when playing a shot as balance, power is all shot.

The second is a drill which is have people throw over arm from 17 yards this will get your reactions working quicker and if you do this for a 20mins or so every net until season starts you will him great nick to face any quick.

Hope that helps. I'm working on a more solid base this winter when in nets and with coaches at my club
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: The Palmist on January 22, 2015, 08:21:07 AM
It's  the swing which bothers me most.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: trypewriter on January 22, 2015, 08:23:30 AM
I'm not in the same class as a lot of the bats on here, but I reckon bowling machines set at a sprightly pace are a huge help - you naturally get less time to pick the ball because of the way that it's delivered, but because of the consistency you can get into a bit of a groove and in my experience it's a big help in what Soulman suggests, getting a firm base.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 22, 2015, 10:31:29 AM
Having the ability to block the ball try what Chris as suggested also pick your bat up higher before the ball is bowled that way  you only have to bring it down onto  the ball .. Also  to hit the ball with more power work on increasing your bat speed.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 22, 2015, 10:36:35 AM
It's  the swing which bothers me most.

You are not on your own most batters struggle against fast in swinging Yorkers .
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: arsenal123 on January 22, 2015, 11:09:13 AM
My main problem is the reverse swinging 90mph yorker.  The problem being I would never get near it.

Aside from that, left arm pace, but i've already made a thread on that!
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 22, 2015, 12:35:40 PM
My main problem is the reverse swinging 90mph yorker.  The problem being I would never get near it.

Aside from that, left arm pace, but i've already made a thread on that!

Yes and before you know it we have been whacked on the big toe.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: tushar sehgal on January 22, 2015, 02:59:00 PM
Mindset is key too, if you go in thinking I can't score of fast bowling so I have to survive you will not score any runs. If you go in thinking where are my scoring opportunities and go in with a positive frame you will see a difference.

If you are good enough to block/defend against fast bowling then you are good enough to score runs against it, practise playing more in nets and keep in mind that you are trying to score and not defend. Once you get comfortable then take it to a match
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Buzz on January 22, 2015, 03:31:16 PM
My problem is I massively struggle against anything quicker than medium pace. I can block the ball all day long but struggle to go after the bowling - primarily because I pick up the ball too late.

How can I get better against the quicks ?

If you can get in position to block then you can use the pace of the ball effectively - as Soulman and Hoover have also some good thoughts.

If you say you pick up the ball late - that is a little odd - when do you start watching the ball? I try to watch the seam of the ball in the bowlers hand from before he enters his delivery stride - most of the information you get about the delivery is held within the bowlers action, rather than reacting to the ball once it has left the bowlers hand.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 03:40:20 PM

If you can get in position to block then you can use the pace of the ball effectively - as Soulman and Hoover have also some good thoughts.

If you say you pick up the ball late - that is a little odd - when do you start watching the ball? I try to watch the seam of the ball in the bowlers hand from before he enters his delivery stride - most of the information you get about the delivery is held within the bowlers action, rather than reacting to the ball once it has left the bowlers hand.

I watch the ball from the hand too. I don't know where I lose it, but I find the ball is in the keepers glove by the time I react to it.

Also, someone suggested mindset. Here's the thing, I struggle to play 60 on a BOLA.

Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Buzz on January 22, 2015, 03:45:43 PM
in which case you may find that your head is dropping and you are not watching the ball through the release point.

It is quite common for people to look down as they play a shot (especially off the front foot) and take their eyes off the ball. You should try to get a video of you batting and that may help a little.

The thing is that there may be a couple of minor adjustments you could make - maybe to your posture or back lift that could help, but without seeing you play it is difficult to make a further assesment.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 03:47:10 PM

A couple of bit of help I can offer mate as I much prefer fast bowling to slow/medium.

First the misconception is that you need to "hit" the ball by this I mean smash it when you just need to make contact and have your weight going into the shot. A firm base will generate power from the solid base so a solid checked drive in a defensive manner will get you runs in using boundaries when times. By this is about having your head and weight coming forward and your back let solid so you don't walk when playing a shot as balance, power is all shot.

The second is a drill which is have people throw over arm from 17 yards this will get your reactions working quicker and if you do this for a 20mins or so every net until season starts you will him great nick to face any quick.

Hope that helps. I'm working on a more solid base this winter when in nets and with coaches at my club

Thank You. The second drill would definitely help.

I am thinking of spending the off season with the bowling machine set at 10 kph higher than what I can play. Then eventually dial it down to 5kph higher than what I can play today ?

Do you think that's a good but expensive way of tackling the issue ?

As for the firm base comment, Against genuine pace, I barely have enough time to react let alone get my body in position. Your comments are very helpful though, so thank you.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 03:50:59 PM

in which case you may find that your head is dropping and you are not watching the ball through the release point.

It is quite common for people to look down as they play a shot (especially off the front foot) and take their eyes off the ball. You should try to get a video of you batting and that may help a little.

The thing is that there may be a couple of minor adjustments you could make - maybe to your posture or back lift that could help, but without seeing you play it is difficult to make a further assesment.

Thanks. I'll post a video later today.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: The Palmist on January 22, 2015, 04:48:51 PM
Very useful  thread.

I play for second xi and the wicket takers  are usually  the dibbly dobbly medium  pacers or spinners. Our first  xi have got some proper pace men and every now then I get to face them in nets. Yorkers don't  bother me as much as the away swingers, I find myself  feather  edging quite often.

Someone  mentioned mind set and I have  to confess, that at times  I am thinking more about not getting hit rather  than scoring.

I like what Soulman says about check shots, I can control them better than when  I am following through. My coach  picked up on this and advised me to follow through  so I get maximum value from shots.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: tushar sehgal on January 22, 2015, 06:10:36 PM
Here's the thing about mindset and I'll use my own example. I am a lower order batsman, crap basically, so there have been days I have gone in thinking how am I going to survive this guy or that guy and avoid getting hit, well my brain tells me I am scared of getting hit so I need to watch the ball to avoid the pain. So I watch the ball, sometimes I am so focused on watching the ball that I forget to play a shot and like Silverbullet say, by the time I react the ball is already in the keepers hands.

Another thing I have noticed about my own batting is when I am trying to watch the ball, I see it in the bowlers hand, then come out very nicely but somewhere between release and ball pitching I lose it, most time just before the ball pitches. I think thats where Buzz has a good point about players like us looking down or worrying too much about other things like moving in the right direction or out of the way etc....now I tell myself to not just watch the ball but also watch the ball bounce...its the hurried movement to try and get to the ball or try to hit when I am off-balance and where my problems lie....

Anyways these are just my experiences, I am not a coach. Most days, when I go in thinking I can handle all of them but I just of have to watch for this one "guy" that's the "guy" who gets me out and that player sometimes is not even the best or fastest bowler in the other team, they just bowl a certain way that messes with me and I get defensive and then I get out :(
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on January 22, 2015, 07:00:23 PM
The key benefit to me of the check drive is that it gets you off strike and allows you to get some runs going this will bring added confidence. The key to this is once you have managed a couple of 2's or maybe a boundary is to throw it away with a rash shot caused from over confidence.

You can also go deeper into your crease against serious pace and this will give you that extra bit of reaction time. And finally in addition knowing when to leave is also good. It's hard work for a quick to keeping running in and bowling pace unless they are pretty serious standard so if you can use up the bowlers energy as balls pass you by this will allow you more time to judge and get used to pace as well as the bowler will have to change his line and bowl straighter which should help with getting the middle of the bat in the ball. This will start the process of getting you some runs and building the confidence.

Hope all that makes sense, thinking and typing is hard work after a 12 hour day
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 22, 2015, 08:19:42 PM

best I could find

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTaVyexUPN0
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: rich041187 on January 23, 2015, 09:43:32 AM
I think one of your major issues, and key factors in you edging a lot, is the angle from which your bat is coming down. Your set up is quite open, which isn't too much of an issue, but is combined with your bat coming down from a gully/backward point region. What this means is that in an effort to bring the bat down to play a straight shot the path is an out to in motion. This is very much like a slice in golf. As seen you will also naturally open the face to try and fight this swing path and attempt to straighten the face at impact. All these things mean that there is a high risk of an edge or missing balls outside off as you are not using the full face of the bat and bat momentum is not going fully into the ball (more slightly across it).
My suggestion is to simply try and straighten everything up. Feet, hips and shoulders try and be as square as comfortable (must be all) whilst your pick up should be no wider than 2nd slip. As discussed you can pick the bat up a bit earlier but try and keep a rhythm with your batting, ie use a cue to pick it up at the same time each ball like just as the bowler gathers in his bowling stride.
 
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Buzz on January 23, 2015, 10:09:40 AM
the key image for you here:
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/Untitled_zps8af35337.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/Untitled_zps8af35337.jpg.html)

this is your stance as the ball is delivered.

As Rich has said above, you are very open, but for me you need to be on the balls of your feet more this will help your reaction time.
You posture is also a little odd and this isn't helped by your front foot moving to the leg side as the ball is delivered.

take a look at this from Ramps
The Stance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NurpSavwvsQ&list=UUms-xnI50pEtJC06xdw4J6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NurpSavwvsQ&list=UUms-xnI50pEtJC06xdw4J6A)

you will be amazed about how your reaction time will improve.

This would be my starting point for you, then I would start working on how your head moves towards the ball. At the moment you are relying on your hands eye co-ordination which is a big ask and why you struggle against pace.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 23, 2015, 10:28:10 AM
Having watched your video 3 times and agree with the above you could also try a more open balanced stance with your arms tucked into your body. Also line everything up before the ball is bowled as you  are playing shots to far away from your body risking a top edge or bottom edge onto the stumps you are also  failing to get your foot to the pitch of the ball.                      when playing the cut shot  Practise bringing your bat down onto the ball.  if you still have
 difficulty hitting the ball when it is wide of off stump you could leave the ball rather than risk an edge this should also force the bowler to bowl straight reducing the risk of being caught behind and if everything is in line head bat etc useing an higher back lift from your stance with faster bat speed you will be able to score runs driving straight and through the vee with the full face of the bat with less risk of getting out.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Northern monkey on January 23, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
Try and get that front foot to the pitch of the ball
Don't look to hit the ball hard or force it
Your looking to play through the line

Don't worry too much about bowling machine pace,,I struggle much above 60 on a bowling machine
To me, they bear little to facing someone outside who is genuinely quick

Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: brokenbat on January 23, 2015, 03:10:36 PM
here's one excellent way to slow down fast bowling.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkPKpi5ZzOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkPKpi5ZzOk)
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 23, 2015, 03:58:52 PM
Thank You all for the great advice. I will take all of these tips into my next few sessions and post a follow up.

Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: brokenbat on January 23, 2015, 04:44:22 PM
just one other thing - don't worry too much about getting your foot to the pitch of the ball. its all about getting your head/nose/eyes to the ball. you won't be able to hit the ball if your foot is to the pitch, but your head is not in front of your foot. so instead of thinking of front-foot movement, think about getting eyes/nose/head towards the pitch of the ball - the foot will follow automatically.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: rich041187 on January 23, 2015, 05:06:01 PM
just one other thing - don't worry too much about getting your foot to the pitch of the ball. its all about getting your head/nose/eyes to the ball. you won't be able to hit the ball if your foot is to the pitch, but your head is not in front of your foot. so instead of thinking of front-foot movement, think about getting eyes/nose/head towards the pitch of the ball - the foot will follow automatically.
Just think "head, shoulders, knees and toes" - head is first thing that should move and most important thing. Chris Gayle doesn't always get his feet in the right place, but his head is in good/still positions and he has a stable base in terms of his foot placing.   
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 25, 2015, 04:22:21 PM
Tried all of your tips today. Tried to keep the bat pointing to 2nd slip, weight on balls of my feet, try to get head in line with the ball. Felt slightly better but not quite there.

Would love to hear some more feedback on what I might still be doing wrong...

http://youtu.be/Rg2WgnqdUOE
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: rich041187 on January 25, 2015, 06:57:49 PM
Keep working on that front shoulder, making concerted effort to get it leading into your shots and  dipping down into the ball. This will help get your head and shoulders in a good position above the ball on impact. You sometimes aren't positive enough with this movement resulting in your head not quite at the impact zone, so your hands take over in front of you losing control and ultimately power (often see you opening of the face).  Ian Bell probably has the best example of the shoulder and head dipping into the ball when he drives


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Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: Hoover on February 18, 2015, 12:31:26 PM
So confusing for you. Everyione is giving you great advice . It also looks like your weight is on your back foot too. Simple exercise is make your head go to the ball, move with your natural stride an bend your knees into the ball. You are then putting your bodyweight thru the ball. more power with less effort and you don't to use your arms so much.
I hope that make sense.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: arsenal123 on February 18, 2015, 12:54:04 PM
Exactly as above.  Everyone can dissect anyones technique to some degree, simplify things.  Get leaning into that ball when you drive.  A difficult task when the bowling is quicker than comfortable. 

Imagine getting your head right over that front knee when you drive throughout the whole shot, quite often people think they're getting forward but pull their body up at the final moment.
Title: Re: Struggles Against Pace
Post by: abdulwq on April 29, 2015, 01:27:39 PM
I am in no means an expert so dont take it very seroius.
The most thing you are lacking is bending, leaning and bringing the fornt foot in line of the ball.
I also see you are way outside leg stump and then you shuffle before ball is delivered and couple of times you get yourself locked up when the ball is on your pads resulting in offbalance.
You seem to look like a guy who wants to stand and deliver and always looking for a short pitched ball.
The worst thing i figure is you are bending your knees and not bending your back accordingly might hurt your back a little.(I know some of the taller guys have kind of this habit.)
MY advice would be  to work on playing in line with the ball with min gap between bat and pads, your stance needs to be overhauled according to Ramprakash video and solid up your base.
Also i would like to criticize that playing n bowling machine wont show us your whole technique so better have a video with some bowlers bowling you so guys can have alook at the whole range of shots you have.
Pros can correct me where i am wrong:)