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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: shax12 on January 29, 2015, 09:00:12 PM

Title: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 29, 2015, 09:00:12 PM
As season is approaching in few months looking to get a new cricket bat.
Been looking online and have made my mind up on getting either a CA top end bat or a H4L top end bat. Been really impressed by the reviews and video reviews of these two bats. But struggling to make my mind up which out of the two to go for.
Have used CA in past so know how they are but never used H4L. Is the balance, pick up, ping and performance as good as.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: wilkie113 on January 29, 2015, 09:05:54 PM
Had both, both amazing bats, but H4L are a street ahead for me.

Had several and can't get enough.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: TBONTB on January 29, 2015, 09:06:03 PM
I have not used a H4L but have only heard good things. But from a more practical and fulfilling purchase, going with h4l you can specify weight, handle etc in a way you cannot with off the shelf! #nobrainer!
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: JB on January 29, 2015, 09:06:45 PM
I've not had a CA but I'd crawl over most brands to get to a H4L. Great bats, quite a few in my club now
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on January 29, 2015, 09:37:46 PM
H4L every day of the week and twice on Sundays
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: simonmay5 on January 29, 2015, 09:45:47 PM
Hell 4 leather wins for me Matt makes a top bat that's for sure
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Slackie on January 29, 2015, 09:48:55 PM
Everyone shouts about H4L can't be for no reason, just from what i've seen H4L are far more consistent than CA!
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Maverick79 on January 29, 2015, 09:51:35 PM
Another for H4L. Had a number of them now and currently have a G1 and two Pro's all of which are top notch. Never heard of anyone having a bad one
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on January 29, 2015, 10:22:01 PM
Shouldn't we do this the proper forum way?

Get the CA, use it for a few weeks, sell it at a loss then buy a H4L haha  ;)
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Vitas Cricket on January 29, 2015, 10:29:29 PM
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0)

Why take the risk? The amount of questionable CA's that are left at our shop to be knocked in or 'fixed' despite being brand new (dodgy handles/binding) astounds me. I see the odd belter don't get me wrong, but I'm yet to see a bad H4L.

Yes the CA's look good grain wise but they are never the weight declared and are often shorter blade too.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: jwebber86 on January 29, 2015, 10:42:30 PM
i would say this has been summed up pretty.

i would go for h4l also. haven't knocked mine it yet but looks lovely
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Cedrictoad on January 29, 2015, 11:01:42 PM
I have both and the H4L wins hands down.

Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: tushar sehgal on January 30, 2015, 12:18:46 AM
I have had amazing CA bats and amazing H4L bats. Difference is the response of a H4L bat, if you like how pingy ca   are then you will love H4L bats...they are some of the best
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 12:43:17 AM
CA for me and it is still my top bat out of all my bats. No H4L yet.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 30, 2015, 12:47:38 AM
Thanks guys for your help and advice.

I have used CA previously so know how they are.
But never came across a H4L bat but hearing everyone so far saying H4L I am tempted to get a H4L I think.
I just want bat with good balance and pick up. And one that's pings brilliantly and has big sweetspot.
The CA I used of my mate last season had a really light pick up and the ping on it was just amazing.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 30, 2015, 12:48:00 AM
CA for me and it is still my top bat out of all my bats. No H4L yet.

Which CA you have mate?
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 12:48:37 AM
CA-SM 18 - http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=32133.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=32133.0)
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 30, 2015, 12:50:59 AM
CA-SM 18

CA-SM 18 look really nice. How's the balance and ping on the bat. Also how big is the sweetspot on it. Does it ping lower down the bat too as its a mid middle bat.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 01:06:43 AM
CA-SM 18 look really nice. How's the balance and ping on the bat. Also how big is the sweetspot on it. Does it ping lower down the bat too as its a mid middle bat.

The bat weighs 2-11.0 and is a little bottom heavy. I normally use 2-13 so it is still easy to use for me.

It pings everywhere. When I got it, I was concerned that toe may not ping as I drive and flick from the bottom part of the bat but this was not an issue. The response near the toe is amazing! I drive from the pitch and also flick to the leg side any full/york length deliveries, bat's response has been great.

I gave this bat a good round of mallet knocking before it saw the nets. What I found interesting was how quickly the bat starting pinging during the mallet knocking process. The only other bat that came close to that performance level is one of my B3s. I have consistent ball marks of my hooks and pulls between 9-11 inches off the toe. These are boundary shots and the bat is pinging that high.

Also, this is my first duck-bill shaped bat and I have just fallen in love with the shape.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: alee on January 30, 2015, 01:38:47 AM
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0[/url])

Yes the CA's look good grain wise but they are never the weight declared and are often shorter blade too.


Got a CA for a friend. Sticker on the side says 2.7 it turned out to be 2.12. No joke, i'm serious. And now he has to sell it, and it was one of the top model, CA 12000.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Vitas Cricket on January 30, 2015, 01:50:56 AM
Got a CA for a friend. Sticker on the side says 2.7 it turned out to be 2.12. No joke, i'm serious. And now he has to sell it, and it was one of the top model, CA 12000.

I've never seen one that is the weight stated on the sticker. The number of people who come into the shop with their shiny new CA, and without saying as much basically criticise the size/profile of the bats I have in stock compared to their huge CA at 2'7 is in the dozens every season. I take great delight in putting their 2'7 on the scales. My best result so far is just over 2'14! I've seen a couple at just under 2'9 but unsurprisingly these were ones that were visibly smaller in terms of overall size and also blade length.

It's a minefield, and totally not worth the risk in my opinion.  Don't even get me started on their other pointless sticker. 'Fully knocked' - ridiculous statement!
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Vitas Cricket on January 30, 2015, 01:54:45 AM
I just want bat with good balance and pick up. And one that's pings brilliantly and has big sweetspot.

Don't we all? ;)

Seriously though, I am going to see Matt very soon, and within reason I can pick out (or arrange to be made) anything that you like.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 02:20:17 AM

I've never seen one that is the weight stated on the sticker. The number of people who come into the shop with their shiny new CA, and without saying as much basically criticise the size/profile of the bats I have in stock compared to their huge CA at 2'7 is in the dozens every season. I take great delight in putting their 2'7 on the scales. My best result so far is just over 2'14! I've seen a couple at just under 2'9 but unsurprisingly these were ones that were visibly smaller in terms of overall size and also blade length.

It's a minefield, and totally not worth the risk in my opinion.  Don't even get me started on their other pointless sticker. 'Fully knocked' - ridiculous statement!y

I know quite a lot of people who use CAs. The stickers always indicate a lower weight - theory is that it is the weight without add-ons (grips, stickers, toe-guard). The most variance I have seen is 2 ounces. Another thing I have heard is that they use drier clefts for performance. Is it possible that there is weight gain due to moisture difference. Despite the weight difference, they are very popular bats.

Regarding the "Fully Knocked" sticker, in my experience, my bat came alive very quickly and I am wondering if I had to knock it at all. Our team opener took his KP version CA straight to a bat and was hitting sixes. By the same token, lot of "knocked" bats require net time because, they theory goes, the fibers straighten up and have to be knocked back into place.

My Lavers were 2,3 ounce heavier than what was shipped by Laver & Wood; they were also knocked by the bat makers and still required knocking.

The weight of the bat and knocking/readiness is something, I feel, that can't be pinned down 100%.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Vitas Cricket on January 30, 2015, 02:40:04 AM
I know quite a lot of people who use CAs. The stickers always indicate a lower weight - theory is that it is the weight without add-ons (grips, stickers, toe-guard). The most variance I have seen is 2 ounces. Another thing I have heard is that they use drier clefts for performance. Is it possible that there is weight gain due to moisture difference. Despite the weight difference, they are very popular bats.

Regarding the "Fully Knocked" sticker, in my experience, my bat came alive very quickly and I am wondering if I had to knock it at all. Our team opener took his KP version CA straight to a bat and was hitting sixes. By the same token, lot of "knocked" bats require net time because, they theory goes, the fibers straighten up and have to be knocked back into place.

My Lavers were 2,3 ounce heavier than what was shipped by Laver & Wood; they were also knocked by the bat makers and still required knocking.

The weight of the bat and knocking/readiness is something, I feel, that can't be pinned down 100%.

Knocked in, compared to being ready to hit sixes, to come alive, to ping, or whatever the terminology, is a very personal thing. Some people are happy to use a bat straight away, others prefer to wait and prepare their bat carefully over a period of time, playing it in until a point where it is really performing. What I am referring to is that fact that no CA I have seen has been anywhere near a mallet. The edges are sharper than most knives in my kitchen!

They are certainly dry I agree with you, this definitely promotes performance ahead of longevity.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 03:10:52 AM
Knocked in, compared to being ready to hit sixes, to come alive, to ping, or whatever the terminology, is a very personal thing. Some people are happy to use a bat straight away, others prefer to wait and prepare their bat carefully over a period of time, playing it in until a point where it is really performing. What I am referring to is that fact that no CA I have seen has been anywhere near a mallet. The edges are sharper than most knives in my kitchen!

They are certainly dry I agree with you, this definitely promotes performance ahead of longevity.

Edges are sharp, that is correct. Maybe this where retailers can push CA to change/remove their stickers.

Having said that, priorities of a bat  enthusiast/collector v/s a middle class weekend cricketer (in the US) are very different. The latter may only care about a bat that performs well, perform well quickly, and performs well quickly for a reasonable price point. We in America, don't have the luxury of walking into a cricket store to hand pick a bat (all my bats were shipped from overseas). People look for tried and true brands. And for that criteria, CA bats are a great value for money.   
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 30, 2015, 03:16:30 AM
The bat weighs 2-11.0 and is a little bottom heavy. I normally use 2-13 so it is still easy to use for me.

It pings everywhere. When I got it, I was concerned that toe may not ping as I drive and flick from the bottom part of the bat but this was not an issue. The response near the toe is amazing! I drive from the pitch and also flick to the leg side any full/york length deliveries, bat's response has been great.

I gave this bat a good round of mallet knocking before it saw the nets. What I found interesting was how quickly the bat starting pinging during the mallet knocking process. The only other bat that came close to that performance level is one of my B3s. I have consistent ball marks of my hooks and pulls between 9-11 inches off the toe. These are boundary shots and the bat is pinging that high.

Also, this is my first duck-bill shaped bat and I have just fallen in love with the shape.


Looks like you have found yourself a gem of a bat mate.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: shax12 on January 30, 2015, 03:18:39 AM
Don't we all? ;)

Seriously though, I am going to see Matt very soon, and within reason I can pick out (or arrange to be made) anything that you like.

Thanks. Will have a think about it and let you know. When you going?
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: alee on January 30, 2015, 06:40:42 AM
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33330.0)

Vitas Cricket mentioned the details above. The date is Feb 4.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: 13th Man on January 30, 2015, 08:57:45 AM
Hi

Can't comment on CA.

H4L gr8 bats, really nicely pressed, they are good to go from day 1.  Worth knocking them in by hand and taking your time.  Thin handles in my opinion, but easily fixed with a second grip.

Cheers

Mark
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: farnham_quins_2 on January 30, 2015, 10:19:15 AM
Just picked up 2 H4Ls this season.

1 Devil, which looks pretty nice, picks up well and has decent power too (got that from Paul IJC). Used in a couple of nets so far.

Also got a G2 Tempo, which I'm yet to use. But I love the old Tempo shape, and it has a ridiculous amount of wood in the middle. Need to get his knocked in, then will try it out.

Having used a few brands like BB, Red Ink, GN, GM & SS - H4L definitely competes with all these brands, and is better value for money. Not used CA but haven't heard great things, also Matt will get you exactly what you want.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Rob580 on January 30, 2015, 10:31:13 AM
Hell4Leather.

Why is this even a discussion?  ???
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: northernboy1987 on January 30, 2015, 01:04:06 PM
I've got a Hellfire Monster which is beastly and just got a team mate a NV not only are they both amazing bats but Matt is very helpful and really easy to deal with! Doesn't get much better in my opinion!
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: Northern monkey on January 30, 2015, 07:31:56 PM
Never seen or used a CA, but there seems to be a lot of negatives regarding the brand as a whole

Hell for leather are on my wish list,only heard positives about them
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: FvanN on January 30, 2015, 07:48:13 PM
Not used a H4L yet but my current match bat is a lowly grade ca8000 which performs better than anything I have ever tried before. Will be a sad day when she finally gives up. Think I might try a H4l or bb then. :)
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 30, 2015, 07:54:38 PM
Never seen or used a CA, but there seems to be a lot of negatives regarding the brand as a whole

Hell for leather are on my wish list,only heard positives about them

Before joining this forum, I had not heard of H4L (and I am sure they make good bats, although I haven't used one). Like I wrote earlier, there are different markets and brands catering to them. I had heard only positives about CA until I owned one.   :) So, I wouldn't knock a brand down until I have used it. I own 22 bats, and I have some "negatives" on big names as well.  ;)
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: EaglesCC on January 31, 2015, 10:05:14 AM
Before joining this forum, I had not heard of H4L (and I am sure they make good bats, although I haven't used one). Like I wrote earlier, there are different markets and brands catering to them. I had heard only positives about CA until I owned one.   :) So, I wouldn't knock a brand down until I have used it. I own 22 bats, and I have some "negatives" on big names as well.  ;)


InternalTraining, correct me if I'm wrong but the SM-18 you refer to, is one of the pre-release ones? Perhaps even meant for a pro? I have one of those as well. But the SM-18 you're likely to buy in a shop is exactly the same shape etc as any other CA.

I wouldn't recommend an SM-18 based on the one I have purely because I know it's not a production version.

The pics taken at a angle but you can clearly see the production CA TRD is a shorter blade.

(http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn370/jaanse/cricket%20bats/C3366945-4456-4EED-B73F-A2F7C1C2B7DA_zpslecaq5yl.jpg)

Yes CA tend to be bought for their performance but I agree with much of the critisms of CA too. And you can forget about customer service (although that's not unique to CA).

Just my perspective.


Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: smilley792 on January 31, 2015, 10:36:20 AM
I have had 2 ca's,  a 10000 plus and a kp big bang. In terms of a cricket bat. They are up there as some if the best I've owned.

But issues with bats can be difficult to sort dependant on where you buy. Stickers aren't everyone's cup of tea. And they are all mainly one generic shape.


The h4l I have is a nice bat, very well made with good ping.  I just don't get on with it.
The 1st bat h4l sent me wasn't rright. there customer service was so good I had its replacement in 3 days.
In a world of poor customer service, it's brilliant to see companies that offer great service.

Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: FattusCattus on January 31, 2015, 12:20:49 PM
How do you get on with the Horsey bat Eags?  They are CA made too if I recall.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: EaglesCC on January 31, 2015, 01:55:47 PM
How do you get on with the Horsey bat Eags?  They are CA made too if I recall.

Not sure if they're actually CA made but the owners are brothers. Rumour has it they went separate ways so can't imagine they continue to make bats together...

That said, they are identical to CA's in almost every way. The shapes, the finishing, the quality of stickers etc. But cost less.

Core 5 is their top bat and usually sub £200 where as CA top range is usually £250+

But same cr@ppy service from both companies. I've dealt with both companies extensively and have lost money with both.

Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2015, 02:19:28 PM
InternalTraining, correct me if I'm wrong but the SM-18 you refer to, is one of the pre-release ones? Perhaps even meant for a pro? I have one of those as well. But the SM-18 you're likely to buy in a shop is exactly the same shape etc as any other CA.

I wouldn't recommend an SM-18 based on the one I have purely because I know it's not a production version.

The pics taken at a angle but you can clearly see the production CA TRD is a shorter blade.

([url]http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn370/jaanse/cricket%20bats/C3366945-4456-4EED-B73F-A2F7C1C2B7DA_zpslecaq5yl.jpg[/url])

Yes CA tend to be bought for their performance but I agree with much of the critisms of CA too. And you can forget about customer service (although that's not unique to CA).

Just my perspective.


Yes, my CA SM-18 is one of the pro bats and I mentioned that in my review (linked in my original post in this thread). That's interesting that retail SM-18 is not a duck bill, I didn't know that. My point is not about SM-18 though, overall I feel that CA bats have great performance and excellent value for money. I am not denying that the bats are 1/2 inch shorter but I know guys who are 5'10 and 6' tall and happily using their CAs - 1/2 an inch is not a problem for them. [Note: I have some issues with normal "SH" length bats for short adult men, I have custom size 6 bats and use them regularly in matches]. In general, CAs (whether bought via retail or acquired through "friends" - like me) perform great!

Now, in my experience, customer service is relative and local especially for bats. Even with that, I know retail brands like GN have burnt their customers.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2015, 02:21:46 PM
But same cr@ppy service from both companies. I've dealt with both companies extensively and have lost money with both.

You are based in UK. Wouldn't it help if you dealt with a retailer? This is where I feel that retailers' feedback should compel bat makers to correct their short comings.
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: EaglesCC on January 31, 2015, 02:40:28 PM
You are based in UK. Wouldn't it help if you dealt with a retailer? This is where I feel that retailers' feedback should compel bat makers to correct their short comings.

For a short period I have sold their bats as a retailer if you like. And it's these experiences I'm sharing.

It might seem like these companies are being bashed but for me this is an honest appraisal based on real experiences. The fact of the matter is that in that part of the world quality control and customer service do not featured very highly on both the customers needs or the companies USP.

CA have a captured market and it seems they feel they don't need to please the little people. They don't want to hear this feedback as their retort is simply that their bats are sold all over the world and they must know what they're doing. Fair point.

Don't get me wrong, their bats perform and if you buy from a UK retailer then you're likely to get some honest service. But here a comparison is being made to a smaller UK brand, buying from whom you will get a more personalised service.

I must admit I used to feel differently when I didn't buy from them directly, but these experience have changed my opinions.

Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2015, 03:04:11 PM
For a short period I have sold their bats as a retailer if you like. And it's these experiences I'm sharing.

It might seem like these companies are being bashed but for me this is an honest appraisal based on real experiences. The fact of the matter is that in that part of the world quality control and customer service do not featured very highly on both the customers needs or the companies USP.

CA have a captured market and it seems they feel they don't need to please the little people. They don't want to hear this feedback as their retort is simply that their bats are sold all over the world and they must know what they're doing. Fair point.

Don't get me wrong, their bats perform and if you buy from a UK retailer then you're likely to get some honest service. But here a comparison is being made to a smaller UK brand, buying from whom you will get a more personalised service.

I must admit I used to feel differently when I didn't buy from them directly, but these experience have changed my opinions.

This is a valid point of view and I agree.

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with any brand nor am I in the bat business. I am a consumer who is looking for the best deals (price and performance) and not knocking one brand over another.

I do feel that I, personally, would overlook some of the criticism that is lobbed at CA or any other brand if it performed well and price was good. I see the brand getting flak in the opinion market but bats are great. 
Title: Re: New bat for the season. What to get? CA or H4L?
Post by: bat dr on February 08, 2015, 08:54:19 AM
As the UK's official aftercare service and repair provider for CA (also SF, Hammer & Ihsan). SQ-SPORTS sell a lot of CA bats from pro and grade 1 down to grade 3 and 4, nearly all have great pick ups and after I personally knock them in, once the edges are rounded off, can't tell the difference in bat width. This year we are now stocking H4L bats, chosen by Matt himself and can testify that they are some of the best bats you can find on the market. Repair wise, CA bats do tend to crack in the shoulder, near the splice, but don't have many face or edge problems. I have had one H4L with major lifting on the face, but maybe just where the player smashed it in the middle too often, (not a bad thing).