Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: TangoWhiskey on May 07, 2015, 10:54:21 AM
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I was up until pretty late last night liaising with our new team selector regarding his team selection for the upcoming weekend. He was getting a truck load of grief including a few direct insults regarding a couple of his choices.
A bit of background about our club. We play friendly cricket at a picturesque ground near Watford, with friendly matches scheduled for both Saturday's and Sunday's every weekend until the end of September. Almost all of us have played League cricket at some point in our careers but have found ourselves playing at this club for a variety of reasons, sick of league cricket, lifestyle restrictions, love of the game etc.
5 maybe 6 years ago, we had plenty of players so you'd have to get lucky if you fancied 'doing a double' i.e. playing in both Saturday and Sunday games, though in recent years falling numbers have meant more often than not many would be required to do a double just so we can get out two teams over the weekend. There are of course some of us that want to play every game regardless, some that will play doubles if we are desperate and some that as long as they get their one game in on the weekend don't care whether we can get a team together for the other fixture or not.
As we play friendly games, despite that we obviously play to win, there are no real consequences for losing, so the onus is on the team selector to try and put out a balanced side but above all try and make sure everyone who wants to play gets a game, with the unwritten rule being that if we have 22 people available for a game over the weekend, then obviously no one will get to play both games.
Which brings me to this weekend. This weekend due to a visit from an old player who moved away a few years ago and wants to play both games, we have many players who are all of a sudden available for a double this weekend as it promises to be a couple of days of great fun and drinking. This is all well and good but suddenly we have 15 people who want to play on Saturday and 11 to play on Sunday including about 5 people who want to play a double. The team selector, being relatively new to the job (he has done it in the past when the club had an over subscription of players) has picked a team and obviously some who wanted one were left out of a double.
The issue is, our team selector has left out our Sunday Captain for Saturday's game. The issue he has and which I agree with, is that he also contributes a hell of a lot to the club off the field. He is 22 years old and he comes down the club to do a lot of work on the ground in his free time, so much so that we would struggle to get a game on otherwise. He also does a lot of the admin with collecting match fees etc and up until I created the website used to keep track of all the averages at home. He turns up to just about every net session and is also firmly in the 'play every game' camp I alluded to earlier, which again helps us ensure we get the game on every weekend. On top of this, he has also been our leading wicket taker for about the last 5 odd years, so it's not like he does these jobs to try and justify his place in the side.
There are two people in particular that he has taken a real issue with being given a double ahead of him. One was last years Saturday Skipper who was effectively stood down from the job due to losing interest in it leaving the club in a little bit of difficulty, but nothing too major. He sparsely attended winter nets mainly for reasons that he couldn't be bothered as opposed to any other commitments and rarely turns up in his spare time to do a session with the roller or some work on the ground. He used to be in the double every weekend camp but hasn't been for the last year and so far for this season. The other one turned up to most nets, never turns up in his own time to help with the ground and is firmly entrenched in the 'as long as my game isn't getting called off for lack of players I don't care' camp, though this is since becoming married. I am assured that whilst single he would play every game, though now he is very much under the thumb.
My opinion is one that there should be a hierarchy of who should be allowed to play in these games. Obviously playing friendlies, ability isn't the biggest question. I would suggest those who contribute the most to the club off the field deserve to play when the want, so long as no one is missing out on a game over the weekend so they can play two.
I have heard different opinions where people grumble that they don't get a double when they want but those who play a double every week get one ahead of them. I have suggested that the reason the club manages to get two teams out most week is because these guys will do a double come rain or shine so why should they miss out on a game of cricket because some bloke decided he fancies play two games once in a blue moon. Is this agreeable?
Another opinion I have heard from one of the doubler's is that occasional players who only play the odd game here and there should be sacked off entirely in the case that he want's a double. I disagree but does he have a point?
What are everyones views on this subject? I realise its a lot to get through but I'd appreciate seeing how other clubs approach team selection if they are in the same boat.
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leaving the guy out was a bit of a mistake.
I would phone each of the other guys doing the "double" and ask if any would be willing to give Sat a miss this week with a guarantee of a future first pick
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The lad sounds absolutely brilliant, does lots of club work and one of your better players as well. People like that are gold dust and maybe he's entitled to a bit of special treatment.
I'd explain the situation to some of the other players playing twice this weekend and see if anyone volunteers to stand aside for him. It might cost you and the selection committee a few beers and you might have to call in a few favours but you shouldn't upset someone who is a big part of your club
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Yeah that was my suggestion. Ideally I would like the club to come up with a closed doors hierarchy of importance to the club. The higher you are then the easier it is for you to get a game. The problem, as is per usual with all things cricket, is politics.
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You have 11 for Sunday, so they play. Done.
Of the 15 Saturday, those not playing Sunday get a game. Done.
I might of missed the next bit but how many don't have a game now?
If let's say 5 are available both, that means 10 Saturday spots have been filled. Leaving 1 for the most deserving candidate. You might have to agree a criteria for "double" selection in these cases ie. net attendence/ availability / Groundwork - but I agree the lad that does everything should get the nod first.
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pick the one who does work off the field over those who only play/turn up when they want.. disregard ability as it's club cricket
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A bit of a left field idea, but I don't suppose the guy you want to drop (old Saturday skip) is a bat? In which case as it is only a friendly could you ask the oppo is they will let one guy bat and the other (Sunday captain) bowl.
Then you also have a spare player each innings for scoring/umpiring/drinks :)
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You have 11 for Sunday, so they play. Done.
Of the 15 Saturday, those not playing Sunday get a game. Done.
I might of missed the next bit but how many don't have a game now?
If let's say 5 are available both, that means 10 Saturday spots have been filled. Leaving 1 for the most deserving candidate. You might have to agree a criteria for "double" selection in these cases ie. net attendence/ availability / Groundwork - but I agree the lad that does everything should get the nod first.
No the point is that there is 11 on Sunday as a total including those wanting a double, which is perfect obviously. The issue is there is also 15 on Saturday including those who want a double. The issue is how should it be decided who gets the double and who misses out and therefore only get a game on Sunday. Obviously those that can only play on Saturday get the priority as the priority should go to making sure everyone who wants to play gets a game.
pick the one who does work off the field over those who only play/turn up when they want.. disregard ability as it's club cricket
My view exactly, though only in case of doubles. My view is irregardless of ability, everyone who wants a game gets at least one game. Otherwise those who contribute more to the off field side of things get priority. Fair no?
A bit of a left field idea, but I don't suppose the guy you want to drop (old Saturday skip) is a bat? In which case as it is only a friendly could you ask the oppo is they will let one guy bat and the other (Sunday captain) bowl.
Then you also have a spare player each innings for scoring/umpiring/drinks :)
He is a bowler. I don't particularly want to drop anyone, I just feel that out of the three of them he contributes the least and therefore shouldn't have been picked over the other guys who does. As it happens the team selector has called up the third guy and convinced him to let the first one have his spot on the Saturday. He also called the other guy and explained to them both that I feel one of them should be dropped, so I'm now the bad guy, despite the fact that I offered to drop myself as I'm in for the double but he wouldn't because I'm the only keeper available. Last time I offer my advice to him then!
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Pick the guys who do the work on and off the field first for the double or they might stop doing it unless all your players have paid there annual subs pickthe ones who have paid there subs first followed by the ones you are pretty certain will do .if players who are left out moan tell them to pay there subs as they will then be given priority for selection.
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As treasurer anyone not being financial would be the first to miss out.
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It rumbles on with a flurry of discontented emails this morning. Looks like it will be an interesting weekend!
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It rumbles on with a flurry of discontented emails this morning. Looks like it will be an interesting weekend!
did you pick the player who does work off the field, always available and wants to play every game?? basically, is a better club man
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did you pick the player who does work off the field, always available and wants to play every game?? basically, is a better club man
Yeah, but at the expense of one of the other guys who isn't happy...
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Yeah, but at the expense of one of the other guys who isn't happy...
If said unhappy bloke is of the "do nothing to help, turn up, play, go home" mould then sod him lol
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True, but how many clubs can say they don't need players these days? We struggle to get 2 games on the weekend and we only have one team.
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If said unhappy bloke is of the "do nothing to help, turn up, play, go home" mould then sod him lol
Agree with this. Players like this are ten to a penny so are easily replaced although most like this think they aren't
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If said unhappy bloke is of the "do nothing to help, turn up, play, go home" mould then sod him lol
Although correct if my club did that there wouldn't be a game for anyone we allow guys to come along bat where they want and pay reduced match fees just to keep them interested In the hope that they will turn out again next match.
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We don't go as far as reducing match fees but we certainly don't want anyone leaving. We are a very close knit club, every year we go on tour to Devon, taking at least 50 people including all wives/girlfriends and offspring and generally get on very well off the pitch, so we really don't want to encourage a sod off approach to dissatisfied players particularly as it would be like telling a mate to do one.
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Convince the guy that sitting on the boundary, slowly getting drunk on cold cider and shouting out increasingly ridiculous comments is a better way to enjoy a late Spring afternoon. I often put myself forward to be dropped to do this. Unfortunately my captain has never taken me up on this offer. However, with my recent performances he might soon.
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My main issue with it is that this situation never arises usually. Normally we are begging people to play a double so we can get a game in both days. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm sorely tempted to do away with my place on the committee and just keep my mouth shut about it all.
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My main issue with it is that this situation never arises usually. Normally we are begging people to play a double so we can get a game in both days. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm sorely tempted to do away with my place on the committee and just keep my mouth shut about it all.
guys who care and think like that are needed on such councils!
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What was the team selectors reasoning behind his decision?
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Well there was a number of reason, all rubbish. Apparently they both called up and offered copious amounts of beer. They guy who was coming over from Malta was staying with one of them, so the guy claimed he had to play so that he could bring him to the games. It was all very farcical to be honest.
As it happened, a couple of guys who were just playing on Saturday dropped out so everyone who wanted a double got one. The guy who originally was picked for a double but was then dropped for the other guy and sent a sarky email about the whole episode didn't even read the team sheet email properly and didn't know the start on Sunday was 1pm and so didn't arrive until about 7 overs into the Sunday game. He was fined and suffered much abuse, as well as picking up a new nickname, 'Esther' as in Esther Rantzen for his efforts via email. Hopefully it will stick.
Any how, the result is we are having an emergency committee meeting on Thursday to outline selection policy to the Team Selector who in all honesty has handled the whole thing very poorly from the start and really could and should have done better.
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My club never have a problem leaving guys out we only have 8 players !.
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Lol. Times are tough seniorplayer...
At the end of the day you can't please everyone. Some people aren't happy unless they are unhappy. Do you just have one person doing the team selections? Maybe if there was a trio a bit of common sense may have prevailed
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We only have one side, so having three team selectors would be overkill. To be honest he was just being stubborn, hopefully it won't happen again.
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Lol. Times are tough seniorplayer...
At the end of the day you can't please everyone. Some people aren't happy unless they are unhappy. Do you just have one person doing the team selections? Maybe if there was a trio a bit of common sense may have prevailed
Yes the Captain he will ask after the game
who can play next match if you can play your in the team last week he made 30 telephone calls got 11 players 2 dropped out on Friday and I more texted him at 4 A M Saturday morning to say he was a little worse for wear after his night out. The vice Captain then made 30 calls on Saturday morning to no avail. So we travelled away with 8 players It's a shame really as we have a nice village ground with a professional groundsman in the Worcestershire country side.
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Yes the Captain he will ask after the game
who can play next match if you can play your in the team last week he made 30 telephone calls got 11 players 2 dropped out on Friday and I more texted him at 4 A M Saturday morning to say he was a little worse for wear after his night out. The vice Captain then made 30 calls on Saturday morning to no avail. So we travelled away with 8 players It's a shame really as we have a nice village ground with a professional groundsman in the Worcestershire country side.
With regards to player recruitment, I've found the best way to do it is to get any friend you know who plays cricket and beg them to play with you until they do. It's how I joined my club and I've signed up one guys who is enjoying it now this year. I lent him some money a couple of months ago as a favour and low and behold come the start of the season we were short. Called in the favour and now he plays for us pretty much every week, at a far lower standard than he is used to but he is enjoying it, not that he is tearing it up or anything...
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Yes the Captain he will ask after the game
who can play next match if you can play your in the team last week he made 30 telephone calls got 11 players 2 dropped out on Friday and I more texted him at 4 A M Saturday morning to say he was a little worse for wear after his night out. The vice Captain then made 30 calls on Saturday morning to no avail. So we travelled away with 8 players It's a shame really as we have a nice village ground with a professional groundsman in the Worcestershire country side.
Sounds a lot like what happens at my club, last season I played all but 3 games on the back of being phoned the night before and one game I was phoned up half an hour before the game started (I had to turn it down because it was an away game on the other side of manchester and I don't have a car). I actually got into the habit of leaving saturday/the odd sunday completely free of plans just in case I got called up, sometimes it wasn't even "can you play tomorrow?", it was "you're playing tomorrow, be at mine for 11AM", no say in the matter. It always amuses me when the same people call up unable to play every other week and yet they're always on the team sheet week in week out.
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Sounds a lot like what happens at my club, last season I played all but 3 games on the back of being phoned the night before and one game I was phoned up half an hour before the game started (I had to turn it down because it was an away game on the other side of manchester and I don't have a car). I actually got into the habit of leaving saturday/the odd sunday completely free of plans just in case I got called up, sometimes it wasn't even "can you play tomorrow?", it was "you're playing tomorrow, be at mine for 11AM", no say in the matter. It always amuses me when the same people call up unable to play every other week and yet they're always on the team sheet week in week out.
Don't forget the skipper is always surprised when it happens too, that's the bit I always laugh at!
"So and so has dropped out, I wasn't expecting that" - no, they've only done the same thing every game for the last 6 weeks after all...
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Sounds a lot like what happens at my club, last season I played all but 3 games on the back of being phoned the night before and one game I was phoned up half an hour before the game started (I had to turn it down because it was an away game on the other side of manchester and I don't have a car). I actually got into the habit of leaving Saturday/the odd sunday completely free of plans just in case I got called up, sometimes it wasn't even "can you play tomorrow?", it was "you're playing tomorrow, be at mine for 11AM", no say in the matter. It always amuses me when the same people call up unable to play every other week and yet they're always on the team sheet week in week out.
Yes you are the same players always call in unable to play and then get selected for the next match in our clubs case it's because there's no one else who is readily available and they know it.
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It gets more annoying when the people dropping out are above you in the order when they do bother to turn up, even though they bat like they're holding their bat the wrong way up. Its especially annoying for me because I seem to be stuck in the fine leg to fine leg, bat at 10/11 spot, no doubt the situation won't change once I finally get a game this year.
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Don't forget the skipper is always surprised when it happens too, that's the bit I always laugh at!
"So and so has dropped out, I wasn't expecting that" - no, they've only done the same thing every game for the last 6 weeks after all...
Our Captain is so used to certain players dropping out he now expects them to its not unusual to arrive at the ground an hour before play and find him on his mobile trying to get players only on one occasion last season did we start a match with 11 very often guys he has rang would turn up and play before the completion of the first 20 overs.
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It gets more annoying when the people dropping out are above you in the order when they do bother to turn up, even though they bat like they're holding their bat the wrong way up. Its especially annoying for me because I seem to be stuck in the fine leg to fine leg, bat at 10/11 spot, no doubt the situation won't change once I finally get a game this year.
I would have a word in the Captains ear because the worse casesworn you do play is that you will still be stuck at fine leg and batting at 10 or 11.
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Hi Guys,
Urgent help required i.e team selection for tonight. Bit of background about my team / season so far.
Im the vice captain of my team. We've had 4 completed games this season, one which was rained off half way through.
First league game, we had team currently 2nd in table in 110-7 after 30 overs and would have backed ourselves to clear up and knock off in good time.
Second league game captain was away on hol so yours truly took the reins. We then bowled out the champs from 2014 for 112. We made a catastrophic effort in the run chase and knocked it off 9 down. But 5 points nonetheless, fielding bowling both brill.
3rd league game i was still in charge. playing against runners up in league 2014 we bowled them out for 115. Again bowlers superb. Batting again terrible. Again we knocked it off 9 down!
That brings us to this weekend just gone and captains return. Saturday we batted first against a mid table side and could only amass 160 on a 220 par, again 9 down. Chasing team knocked it off 6 down with about 3 overs to. An extra 40 would have won us the game.
Sunday was cup, bowling first the oppo put 240 on same deck as we played on day previous so slightly better than par. bowling was a bit average in places. We could only manage 170 all out in reply.
So as you can see our batting has let us down.
Now here comes the selection dilemma. When captain (keeper by trade but our o/a is scary good so is doing it now) was away we had 6 bowlers in team, 4 of whom are all rounders and two solely bowlers. now with batting being our weak suit we need to drop on of these bowlers.
one is a former league representative who offers us some control at top of innings and good presence in dressing room. although he cant play double weekends due to his knees and achillies not allowing. the other is a younger guy who knows he is 2nd change. but in the cup game he was our best bowler and got the two big wickets.
a bit of politics comes into our club no doubt and the 2nd change bowlers parents are on committee, as well as his mum being head tea lady and dad head groundsman. no doubt they do loads for club. it wouldnt go down well if their son was dropped and some comments are already getting made about selections.
this stems from who is the 1st team captain. hes only 22 and inherited the captaincy after being v.c 2 seasons back when our then captain jacked it cos he had 5 ducks in 5 innings and wanted to concetrate on his batting. now his place in team was warranted as he was captain and keeper but since the arrival of our overseas amateur, who we didnt realise was a keeper until he said in training took over the gloves, some people are saying his batting doesnt warrant a batting spot at 8. and this has made its way to committee and chairman who are coming out with comments.
so much so they are asking me to take the captaincy on and drop the captain. this way they believe the groundsmans son will still be in the team.
obviously the captain aint going to drop himself. so begs the question experienced opening seamer none batter or keep committee happy with 2nd change none batter.
heres a link to our stats so far this season -
http://www.lancscl.co.uk/l/playerStatsForTeam/772062463/95097072.html (http://www.lancscl.co.uk/l/playerStatsForTeam/772062463/95097072.html)
bowler 2 & 4 are in question as is batter 8.
bat 7 looks the obvious chop but he is arguably best no.7 in league just been batting in wrong situations for him.
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Drop an all rounder for an out and out batsman. No need for 6 bowlers.
You can't drop the captain unless it's not a committee position or he does something wrong enough to warrant being removed. That isn't how my club works and it isn't how democracy operates, unless as you suggest he wasn't voted in.
It's a tough one really and selection is one of the reasons why I gave up league cricket after being on the receiving end of a couple of bias selectors.
My advice is to pick a team on merit that has the best chance to win the game and ignore who's related to who. Takes a strong bloke to stand up to a bunch of wailing busy bodies on the committee though I'll be the first to admit.
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surely whoever it is that averages 35 with the ball (at over 5's) and 1.5 with the bat is the obvious choice for the chop at the moment.
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Yeah it would be either Joel Morton or Tom Pugh for me.
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Or the lad that sends down a no ball an over, until he stops doing that!
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If i was batting against our side bowler 4 would be the one i would want to face most. Bowlers 3, 5 & 6 all bat better than 4 (who as a package is probably weakest batting and bowling combined).
Bowler 5 is second spinner. he took 45 wickets last season but our pro is a first class spinner from nz so his role has changed slightly. but 8/10 of top wicket takers last season were spinners. 2 spinners is the general policy in our league.
the no ball king bowler 3 (bats 9 but can bat, lancs development squad) can only bowl 7 over spells as he is only 19. same as bowler 6 (who bats 5).
when i was captain bowling patters panned out as - bowler 3 opens up 7 over spell, with bowler 2 who stays on for as long as his body / opposition getting hold of him allows.
bowler 1 comes on as soon as bowler 3's 7 overs are bowled. then bowler 5 on to replace 2. bowler 6 would be next in line ability wise. leaving bowler 5 surplus?