Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: uknsaunders on May 29, 2015, 12:13:38 PM
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Some interesting points being made on the short ball thread about light bats helping bat speed and playing the short ball. Does anybody have any experiences where going up several oz in weight helped there game or likewise dropping a few oz helped also?
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I've never seen anyone bat better or easier with a heavier bat
Seen plenty try and bat with a bat way too heavy for them
To me, it's the option to play more shots and later, that a lighter bat brings.
If you are in a position to time the ball, because the bats light enough for you to react, then it doesn't matter if there isn't loads of meat in the bat.
I remember years ago, watching people trying to bat with jumbos etc and never really connecting properly.
Nowadays kids want big meaty edged bats, that I've yet to see anyone use effectively.
It's a shame fashion has dictated the profile and size of bats, to the sometimes detriment of shot playing
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Will be interesting to hear what everyone thinks personally I think people get a bit too hung up on weight. I'd happily use anything from 2lb 7oz to 2lb 10oz, maybe even 2lb 11oz. It's only at 2lb 12oz and above that I find too heavy and I feel that lose my shape on the down swing and try and hit everything too hard.
Started to use lighter bats this year and it seems to be working OK although I suspect netting a lot more is making a bigger difference than dropping a few ounces.
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I have found I lose my shape with a lighter bat, try and hit the ball too hard and never time it.
I think my perfect weight is around the 2:11-2:12 mark.
Bat speed or weight are the be all and end all as long as you time the ball well.
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I have found I lose my shape with a lighter bat, try and hit the ball too hard and never time it.
I think my perfect weight is around the 2:11-2:12 mark.
Bat speed or weight are the be all and end all as long as you time the ball well.
This...
Maybe call it mental but if I go too light with my bat weight I start going harder with it. At my normal weight I feel the bat does the job and play with softer hands.
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Trade off
Bat speed vs weight behind ball
Professionals tend to use heavier in t20 than anything else yes they have gun arms but when I asked they told well 3 of them it's because shorter format and there arms will not get tired and a heavier bat hit it better.
My theory is bat with what feels right and don't change you bat weight too often it messes you up as I keep finding out
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My two match bats this year are a 2.9 Warsop and 2.13 Hell 4 Leather and tbh, i don't notice too much of a difference.
Not sure if the 2.13 is beautifully balanced or if i'm just too thick to notice the difference......
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Spot on Dave
The older I get, the more I realise I can't tell how I'm gonna play with a bat, until I'm out there in the middle.
It doesn't matter how well it picks up for the weight, ,dead weight is dead weight
And your not really gonna discover that until you try and cut that first short ball or sweep a shot to leg.
I think I've dropped down from 3lb to 2.9 now, and may possibly go lighter next season, over 35yrs of playing.
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I'm a big fan of light bats (2.6-2.8) and think with bat speed and timing you can hit the same distances as a meatier bat.
Heavier bats have caused me all sorts of timing issues and shoulder problems in the past.
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I have problems with my wrist so having a light bat is better for me. I haven't had any trouble with sending the ball miles, if the ball hits the middle and i've timed it right then its going to the rope and that's the end of it.
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I never got any value for my shots with light bats. 2-7/2-8 were useless. 2-9 size 6 bats are great but still lacking power. It wasn't until I started using heavier bats that I started seeing value for my strokes. First, it was 2-11 Laver and onwards from there. My timing is better with heavier bats. I tend to lose my shape with light bats.
People who I have seen score big runs with lights bats generally have exceptional bats in their hands. All big hitters that I know use a minimum of 2-10. Guys who are built like Chris Gayle prefer heavier bats to lighter bats as their timing is affected by lighter bats.
I don't recall seeing a light bat user hitting a big six. Big hitters use heavy bats.
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Find something that matches your muscles.
I've used both much heavier and much lighter bats (typically in nets). I find it takes a lot of getting used to. Too light and I'm way too early on shots and too heavy and I'm way too late.
Solving the way too early is easier to fix - it requires relaxing and some delay in playing the shot.
Solving the heavier bat syndrome is much harder - go to the gym and get stronger.
I use the weight I do because I feel it balances me. I've used heavier in the past, but what i use at this moment in time works, and that's why I use it.
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Another observation is about location of the swell or concentration of the bat weight. A 2-9 bottom heavy bat feels like 2-12 or more to me. A 2-12/2-13 bat with a high middle feels like a 2-9. I believe this is called the Swing Weight of the bat. I had a long discussion with @crictech about swing weight of the bat; unfortunately, I no longer have the message in my inbox. Lot of these "light bat" users are actually swinging a bottom heavy (Tendulkar style) bats which seem a lot heavy and uncomfortable to me. Give me an Amplus, or a CA albeit over 2-11 and I am happy with it.
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I don't recall seeing a light bat user hitting a big six. Big hitters use heavy bats.
This is nonsense. Too much value is placed on the bat here, give a good player a plank and an average player an excellent bat and then we'll see who hits it further.
The furthest i've ever seen a ball hit was with a 2.5 Newbery, and the guy who hit it over the Lords pavillion (his name escapes me) was using a twig!
It's all down to the timing (which admittedly can be affected by the bat weight) to say you need a heavy bat to hit it a long way is rubbish.
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The furthest i've ever seen a ball hit was with a 2.5 Newbery, and the guy who hit it over the Lords pavillion (his name escapes me) was using a twig!
It's all down to the timing (which admittedly can be affected by the bat weight) to say you need a heavy bat to hit it a long way is rubbish.
Lords pavillion hit has been discussed and there were two versions of the story on the bat weight used.
Newbery makes exceptional bats. But not everyone can hit big with a light bat. It's a myth.
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Newbery makes exceptional bats. But not everyone can hit big with a light bat. It's a myth.
And not everybody can hit it a long way with a heavy bat. Saying 'big hitters use heavy bats' is an incorrect generalisation.
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i think how far you can hit a ball has so many variables,,,its certainly not down to the weight of a bat.
i would guess at speed of the ball, swing speed of the bat would be far more important to actual distance.
look how far a baseball can be hit with a baseball bat
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And not everybody can hit it a long way with a heavy bat. Saying 'big hitters use heavy bats' is an incorrect generalisation.
Law of physics change because of batsman's technique? No matter how good a technique a batsman has, there is an upper limit to the distance he can achieve with his "light bat".
To make this discussion complete, I suggest we include these factors:
- Volume of the bat
- Swing weight
- Swell position
- Center of percussion
- Anything else?
What do forums bat makers think about this weight debate? How much do these factors impact a bat's performance/distance?
I just don't buy this willy-nilly "light bats with technique hit ball over pavillion" argument.
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i think how far you can hit a ball has so many variables,,,its certainly not down to the weight of a bat.
i would guess at speed of the ball, swing speed of the bat would be far more important to actual distance.
look how far a baseball can be hit with a baseball bat
1. Base ball hitters are, if not bigger, as big as Gayle
2. Pros pitch a ball between 80-95 mph regularly.
3. They also have very high miss rates.
4. Not every hit makes to the fence.
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I get all your points there, but whilst there is a finite distance you can hit the ball with a 'light bat' this finite distance is way further than is necessary to clear any boundary. You can't hit a 12!
Saying you need a heavy bat to hit it a long way is still nonsense. The number of International players using bats under 2.10 is a lot higher than those using over 2.10. Surely that tells you something, no?
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I get all your points there, but whilst there is a finite distance you can hit the ball with a 'light bat' this finite distance is way further than is necessary to clear any boundary. You can't hit a 12!
Agreed.
Saying you need a heavy bat to hit it a long way is still nonsense. The number of International players using bats under 2.10 is a lot higher than those using over 2.10. Surely that tells you something, no?
There is a video of KP, Mahela, and Warne discussing batting. It's a sky sports video where they talk about hitting big with power (KP) and scoring runs with finesse (Mahela) and he makes a point that he relies on outfield to get him the boundaries as in fast outfields. This is Mahela we are talking, king of timing.
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To join the argument;
I'm 6ft 3 and regularly go to the gym, I could comfortably use a 3lb bat if desired (I have in the past). I've used a 2lb 8oz in matches for the last few seasons and have been top of the 6 hitters for the league both seasons.
It really doesn't make much difference IMO. Having a heavier bat means a slower bat speed, having a lighter bat means a higher bat speed - if you use the middle both hit the ball far enough!
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Agree with the above.
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To join the argument;
I'm 6ft 3 and regularly go to the gym, I could comfortably use a 3lb bat if desired (I have in the past). I've used a 2lb 8oz in matches for the last few seasons and have been top of the 6 hitters for the league both seasons.
It really doesn't make much difference IMO. Having a heavier bat means a slower bat speed, having a lighter bat means a higher bat speed - if you use the middle both hit the ball far enough!
That's exactly my point: you are a big guy who is using a light bat and hitting big. :)
What we need is a thin, short guy who does not workout in a gym who is hitting it big with a 2-5 to 2-9 bat. That would be a great example of light bat Jedi.
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I moved from a 2.8-2.9 to a 2.13 for Winter nets, and found that I didn't have to try overhit the ball. Helped a lot with my technique, and I have since then moved down to a 2.9-2.11 weight range. I think it's all down to preference. Big hitters don't all use heavy bats, I think Warner uses a 2.9, and Mal Loye used a 2.6, which he used to hit big slog sweep sixes off the likes of Brett Lee. It's entirely down the batsman's technique and preferences, no, the technique doesn't change the laws of physics, but the batsman themselves should dictate the ideal weight of bat they use.
Going heavier then down a bit worked for me, but won't work for everyone. If you can't get the ball off the square, I'd suggest getting some throwdowns, not trying to hit too hard, getting your timing right and making sure that the bat isn't a plank BEFORE deciding to change weights. It should become a bit more obvious what's not working for you after hitting a few buckets.
Pros and cons of heavy bats:
Generally more forgiving, which adds a little extra punch to the shot
Will generally last a bit longer
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Will wear you down quicker
Lower batspeed for those last second adjustments
Harder to sell on
Pros and cons of lighter bats:
Quicker batspeed, allowing for good adjustment and easier mobility for deft late cuts and flicks
Less wearing out of the arms, which will allow for sustained use over a long innings
Easier to sell on
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Generally more prone to breakages
Generally not quite as forgiving as heavier bats, so can lack that extra punch a heavier bat can offer.
I've probably missed out something obvious, but as you can see, there's not really anything in particular to stands out in favour of a heavier or a lighter bat. I could never have as much success as someone like Smiley or Manoramic on here with the 3lb bats they use, nor could I use a 2.6 bat as effectively as some folk on here do.
If it feels good in the hands, isn't too heavy or too light and taps up well, as a general rule of thumb, it should be fine for you to use.
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My thoughts are a 10 percent increase in your normal bat weight would enable you to hit the ball further but only if the bat is swung at the same speed as your normal bat and there is no loss of timing but if a slower swing is used due to the increase in the weight of the bat it will not therefore your normal lighter bat would hit the ball further due to your bat
Speed being faster.
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Lords pavillion hit has been discussed and there were two versions of the story on the bat weight used.
Newbery makes exceptional bats. But not everyone can hit big with a light bat. It's a myth.
Not everyone can hit big full stop, never mind with a heavy or a light bat. Not everyone tries to hit sixes, some are happy to dab it around.
My thoughts are a 10 percent increase in your normal bat weight would enable you to hit the ball further but only if the bat is swung at the same speed as your normal bat and there is no loss of timing but if a slower swing is used due to the increase in the weight of the bat it will not therefore your normal lighter bat would hit the ball further due to your bat
Speed being faster.
10% is a fair amount though, that's 4 ounces if you use a 2.8. It's about finding the balance, although I understand not everyone buys bats like crazy and tries them all out. Stick to a bat, and if it's not a plank and you can wield it efficiently, then you should be able to score some runs and get used to it over time.
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Law of physics change because of batsman's technique? No matter how good a technique a batsman has, there is an upper limit to the distance he can achieve with his "light bat".
To make this discussion complete, I suggest we include these factors:
- Volume of the bat
- Swing weight
- Swell position
- Center of percussion
- Anything else?
What do forums bat makers think about this weight debate? How much do these factors impact a bat's performance/distance?
I just don't buy this willy-nilly "light bats with technique hit ball over pavillion" argument.
Will ask streaky to comment but by and large it a simple equation so many people over think things
Listen to @Seniorplayer he spot on
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If everything else is equal; bat length, bat speed, bat rotation, ball, ball speed, bounce, impact position on bat etc a heavier bat will hit the ball further.
Most heavy bats are not swung as fast as lighter bats so it ends to even out.
The main difference between an amateur player and a pro is the timing. When a ball hits too high or too low or off center towards one or other edge then energy is lost.
My advise would be determine where on the bat you naturally try hit the ball. Find a bat that has a profile that suits your technique
good luck
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I think the fellow that hit the ball over Lords pavilion was Albert Trott (a relative of Jonathan's I believe) around the start of the 1900's (if my memory from my Lords tour a few years ago serves me right). Imagine how far it would have gone with today's bats... Lol
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Interesting video. :D
https://www.facebook.com/englandcricket/videos/10152733913290194/ (https://www.facebook.com/englandcricket/videos/10152733913290194/)
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This coincides with my experience: http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/cricket.html (http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/cricket.html) - "1. Heavy vs Light Bats
The crowd loves a batter who can hit sixes. If you want to hit the ball as fast and far as possible, should you use a light or heavy bat? That's an age old question with plenty of answers, but which is the correct answer? Light bats can be swung faster than heavy bats, but only about 10% faster (for the usual range of bat weights). Imagine hypothetically that the bat weighs 10 grams - light as a feather. If you swing it as fast as possible, you might get the tip to travel at say 160 km/hr. Now double the weight to 20 gm. This time the tip travels at about 159 km/hr. The problem here is that your arms weigh about 8 kg all up, so the extra 0.01 kg is hardly noticeable. Most of the effort needed to swing a bat goes into swinging the arms. That's why light bats can be swung only about 10% faster than heavy bats.
If a light bat was swung at the same speed as a heavy bat and both hit the same ball, the heavy bat would pack more power since it has more energy and more momentum. But light bats can be swung 10% faster. If a bat is swung 10% faster, the ball comes off the bat about 7.5% faster. That almost makes up for the fact that light bats are basically less powerful when swung at the same speed as heavy bats. The end result is that heavy bats are about 1% more powerful than light bats. Having a heavy bat is a definite advantage if you swing all bats at the same medium speed, but if you need to move the bat quickly into position to strike the ball, a light bat will get there faster. Heavy for a 10 year old might be light for a 100 kg cricketer, so the real answer for raw bat power is to use a bat that is as heavy as feels comfortable to swing."
The consequence for me is that I own a lovely bat that I find, for all practical purposes, impossible to use. I'm considering having some weight taken off it. Also I've also noticed that recently bought bats have tended to put on weight. My theory is that they're kiln dried to improve their weight:size ratio but take on ambient moisture and settle at their authentic weight. I've noticed an increase of about 2 oz. Anyone else found this?
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Are we talking Lavers here?
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This coincides with my experience: [url]http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/cricket.html[/url] ([url]http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/cricket.html[/url]) - "1. Heavy vs Light Bats
The crowd loves a batter who can hit sixes. If you want to hit the ball as fast and far as possible, should you use a light or heavy bat? That's an age old question with plenty of answers, but which is the correct answer? Light bats can be swung faster than heavy bats, but only about 10% faster (for the usual range of bat weights). Imagine hypothetically that the bat weighs 10 grams - light as a feather. If you swing it as fast as possible, you might get the tip to travel at say 160 km/hr. Now double the weight to 20 gm. This time the tip travels at about 159 km/hr. The problem here is that your arms weigh about 8 kg all up, so the extra 0.01 kg is hardly noticeable. Most of the effort needed to swing a bat goes into swinging the arms. That's why light bats can be swung only about 10% faster than heavy bats.
If a light bat was swung at the same speed as a heavy bat and both hit the same ball, the heavy bat would pack more power since it has more energy and more momentum. But light bats can be swung 10% faster. If a bat is swung 10% faster, the ball comes off the bat about 7.5% faster. That almost makes up for the fact that light bats are basically less powerful when swung at the same speed as heavy bats. The end result is that heavy bats are about 1% more powerful than light bats. Having a heavy bat is a definite advantage if you swing all bats at the same medium speed, but if you need to move the bat quickly into position to strike the ball, a light bat will get there faster. Heavy for a 10 year old might be light for a 100 kg cricketer, so the real answer for raw bat power is to use a bat that is as heavy as feels comfortable to swing."
The consequence for me is that I own a lovely bat that I find, for all practical purposes, impossible to use. I'm considering having some weight taken off it. Also I've also noticed that recently bought bats have tended to put on weight. My theory is that they're kiln dried to improve their weight:size ratio but take on ambient moisture and settle at their authentic weight. I've noticed an increase of about 2 oz. Anyone else found this?
What u say is quite clear case of using over dried stick !!!
As trend is changing towards fat and light sticks , do we realise
How is this possible???
Offcourse bats those which loose moisture tend to become lighter in weight,
JSW are the biggest supplier currently for willows all over the world!!
They have a klin drying facility at there works, that just to get the moisture level
Down to recommended levels of moisture in the bat. Those bats which become drier
Than the normal needed level of moisture in the willow as down graded to lower in grade
Even being a beautiful willow. Those willows tend to gain weight when they come in contact
With weather with high moisture levels, and those bats tend to gain weight only, not all!!
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Recently we have seen a lot of professional breaking all
Kinds of records in world of cricket. Do we actually know what
Weight of bats they use??
Recently, IPL just concluded in India. Record number of sixes and fours,
Maximum of those are the ones which are 2.10 plus in weight...
Heavy weight bats are good, very good indeed. But only good for shorter
Version of the Game. Be it T20 or one day. But if you intend to bat for a
Long innings, then they are a pain. Parts resulting in health issues....
Lighter bats are good , very good indeed. For players looking to use pace
Of the bowlers to there advantage. Very good for the longer version of the
Game, or if you indent to have a long innings. They are pain if you wanna
Hit against the pace sometimes.
So both are good in there case, use what suits your style more....
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Recently we have seen a lot of professional breaking all
Kinds of records in world of cricket. Do we actually know what
Weight of bats they use??
Recently, IPL just concluded in India. Record number of sixes and fours,
Maximum of those are the ones which are 2.10 plus in weight...
Heavy weight bats are good, very good indeed. But only good for shorter
Version of the Game. Be it T20 or one day. But if you intend to bat for a
Long innings, then they are a pain. Parts resulting in health issues....
Lighter bats are good , very good indeed. For players looking to use pace
Of the bowlers to there advantage. Very good for the longer version of the
Game, or if you indent to have a long innings. They are pain if you wanna
Hit against the pace sometimes.
So both are good in there case, use what suits your style more....
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Are we talking Lavers here?
Newbery. But, just so I don't leave the wrong impression, I'm not anti Newbery. I now have a Kudos that I'm really comfortable with; despite its weight gain.
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How has this thread turned into some kind of poetry?
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Bat weight haikus?
Weight must be chosen
On your bat speed strength and shots
Pick what you prefer
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How has this thread turned into some kind of poetry?
Poetry in motion.
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Spot on Dave
The older I get, the more I realise I can't tell how I'm gonna play with a bat, until I'm out there in the middle.
It doesn't matter how well it picks up for the weight, ,dead weight is dead weight
And your not really gonna discover that until you try and cut that first short ball or sweep a shot to leg.
I think I've dropped down from 3lb to 2.9 now, and may possibly go lighter next season, over 35yrs of playing.
My findings exactly. Back in the day I used a 3lb bat and no surprise, when I made contact the ball went miles. After a 25 year break from playing and now in my dotage I discovered that I couldn't use a 3lb bat. I went right down to 2lb 7oz and couldn't get the ball off the square! It's a great bat too - just sold it to a guy who carted it all round the park with it. I've now settled in the 2-9 2-10 range and can hit the odd boundary.
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Used my new B&S Assegai (2.5lb bat featured in a thread last year) in a couple of games this season and have to say whilst bat speed is increased I can't actual feel there's a bat there if that makes any sense. This leads me to think it's too light for me.
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I worried about this all last month and have stopped. I broke the handle on my best bat (2lb 8.5) and did most preseason nets with my second choice (No Swearing Please) GM 303 (2lb 13), and matched my highest score with it first game back.
When I got my much better, but lighter bat back, I scored 8 and couldn't middle anything in the nets. I really didn't want to face having to use my (No Swearing Please) £60 GM over the £240 g1 bat on the grounds it was too light. Anyway, next game I beat my top score including a huuge straight six down the ground, how? Timing. I'd got used to the bat, if it's not so dramatically wrong you can't get used to timing shots with it, get the most responsive bat you can and get to know it, the pros and cons of weights are nothing next to a good bit of willow you're used to swinging.
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Sir Garfield Sobers used 2lb 6, and this guy called Bradman used 2lb 2!