Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: richthekeeper on May 31, 2015, 08:41:36 AM
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Here's another twist on a theme - what are peoples approaches to keeping the runs ticking when the bowling is good?
To set the scene, I'm usually an opening bat although I came in at 3 yesterday in the 4th over. My strengths are definitely my concentration and stubbornness - my job is to bat as long as possible, wear down the bowlers and see the shine off the ball so that my boundary-smashing middle order teammates can fill their boots. I do this on my regular basis, and have scored 34, 28 and 25 so far this season.
Of course, with those scores I'd be hoping to go on and get 50 plus, but we've batted on some very challenging early season decks and it has been attritional at times!
Still, my point is, when you're batting at the top of the order and facing the moving ball, what are people's methods of scoring at a reasonable rate? Do you have a release shot that punishes anything a fraction short, or maybe you're happy to guide to third man even though the slip cordon is willing you to nick it?
I leave anything wide of off stump and try to get bowlers to bowl straighter at me early on, but often they're quite happy to bowl maidens and I don't want to get tied down!
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I will walk to the bowler in a Rob Key fashion.
You can usually put the bowler off by doing so and forcing them to over pitch or pitch shorter opening up your options
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Yep, if I feel the bowler is getting on top I'll take a few steps at him, not trying to smash it but it gives them something to think about. Normally you'll find it gets a few chirps from slips and more often then not the next ball might be either a bit short or a bit quicker missing his line or length. For me its hasn't got to be a few steps then bang, even if you leave it normally does the trick.
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To me, anything outside off is a free hit, as is anything over pitched , or down leg, or short
Hit the above for four or six.
To achieve the above, move your feet
Simples
Always find when the scoring slows, it's because I'm stuck in my crease,,(decent teams tend to try and get the keeper to stand up to me)
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I think you are doing a proper job. Wait for the bad ball or the ball that really feeds your most consistent scoring shot. The longer you stay there the more they'll strain to get you out and they'll make their own errors.
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Wait for the bad ball. And ensure you put it away.
If the oppo are bowling well. Then you just have to be patient.
Yesterday k opened and got 85 of 66. Yet in the middle of that innings the oppo bowled 6 maidens in a row.
There was nothing to score from so you just got to make sure your there to score when a loose one comes.
If you get castled trying to score from a good ball. Your deffo not getting anymore runs from back in the shed.
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Agree on walking towards the bowler, but often keepers stand up in my league.
Not sure the advice of "smash the bad ball" is what I was looking for! I was more thinking about people's methods for picking up singles and having that one area that they know they can hit safely to tick the runs over.
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Few thoughts here that may help.
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=8242.msg124907#msg124907 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=8242.msg124907#msg124907)
And
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5779.msg85120#msg85120 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5779.msg85120#msg85120)
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Agree with standing couple steps down the wicket if the keeper is away frustrates the bowler to change his line or batsmen getting some over pitched delies...
Anything wide off the stumps should be played when you are set enough and your back foot starts moving picking the line and length of ball.
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I really think the "shine takers" are dinosaurs. Unless you are playing test match cricket, your goal should always be to put the bowlers under pressure.
Like you say bowlers probably love bowling to you as they get maidens. As a captain I might even want to keep you in for an extended period.
No need to go out and tee off but sometimes you may need to take a few risks. Fields up, balls hard, be positive mate.
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I know what you mean, but I'm the only one in my team who can play the moving ball. If I'm out early there's usually a collapse, and if I bat 25 overs I will usually score 50+ so I'm not a complete blocker. I'd just like to add a few more options to my game to pick up a few more runs along the way.
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I know what you mean, but I'm the only one in my team who can play the moving ball. If I'm out early there's usually a collapse, and if I bat 25 overs I will usually score 50+ so I'm not a complete blocker. I'd just like to add a few more options to my game to pick up a few more runs along the way.
If you're getting to 50 and facing half the deliveries in the 25 overs then thats acceptable. If you're facing the whole 25 overs then hmmm...
I try and get my players to have 2 4 scoring shots. One for the short ball and one for the full ball. Too short boom. Too full boom. From their the risks are up to the batsman.
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Not sure how I'd go about facing all 25 overs. I'm glad you think my scoring rate is acceptable, I live only to impress you.
I appreciate your comments but they don't address the question I asked.
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Did they not? :o
Oh well, good luck to you mate.
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Maybe I'm a dinosaur too but I think @richthekeeper's role in his team deserves a bit more respect. I think in most average levels of 50 over club cricket there is still a place for somebody to anchor the innings a bit and provide a platform the strokemakers and hitters. This isn't T20 we're talking about. When nobody agrees with that point or view I guess it's time for me to pack it all in :(. So looking for methods to improve the effectiveness of somebody playing that kind of innings is a reasonable question.
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Maybe I'm a dinosaur too but I think @richthekeeper's role in his team deserves a bit more respect. I think in most average levels of 50 over club cricket there is still a place for somebody to anchor the innings a bit and provide a platform the strokemakers and hitters. This isn't T20 we're talking about. When nobody agrees with that point or view I guess it's time for me to pack it all in :(. So looking for methods to improve the effectiveness of somebody playing that kind of innings is a reasonable question.
Totally agree, but you must be able to rotate the strike and push singles if only to get the 'striker' on strike. I use a few methods:
1. vary where you stand. stand a good foot out of your crease for a few balls then stand back in tHe crease, you often then get a shorter ball as the bowler hasn't noted your change.
2. Identify places where you can push singles either by opening/closing the bat face, or playing slightly across the line
3. Come down the pitch, you won't be lbw usually and it negates the swing/seam
4. When batting and before you go in identify the weak fielders, left hangers etc and put pressure on the fielders by taking quick singles.
However, it is easier said than done. they are good bowlers because they are difficult to score against.
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On drive
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Given the situation described - I think the only issue is the scores made...
Going on at your comfortable scoring pace (or slightly faster as the ball is softer and the best bowlers tire) through to score 80, 90 or 100 not out is the important thing for you in my eyes.
You mentioned that the pitches and conditions haven't been entirely favorable and this makes manufacturing good balls into runs extremely difficult.
Every bowler is different but most are not content to bowl nonthreatening maidens the whole inning and this in itself will provide you with scoring opportunities.
That said - if you're up against a particularly patient bowler or a sunny day flat deck then it may be that you do look for more than survival and your go to shots. I personally favor third man as an area but it might be different for you - just two or three shots may be enough to persuade even the most patient and experienced of bowlers to come looking for your stumps, toes or chin and provide you with the scoring opportunity that you're looking for.
Hope that is of some help.
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Yep that's exactly it, I'd like to improve by adding that extra scoring shot basically so that I can disrupt bowlers without changing my game.
I think the main problem yesterday was I was facing left arm over with the keeper stood up. It's rare to face a left armer anyway and with the keeper up I didn't feel like i could come down the track.
We still won comfortably and our big hitting number 5 got 60* facing bowlers 4/5/6 so I feel like I did my job!
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Look to rotate strike as much as possible - agree with your opening partner on the way out that you are both going to be on the lookout for drop-and-run singles - bowlers hate this - but might be tricky if e.g. there is a short leg.
More specifically consider the field and the stock delivery - you talk about not risking third man because of the slip cordon which suggests at least two and a gully so there's a max six others. Inswing: look at pushing to the gap between mid-on and mid-wicket - not too square at least early on. Outswing: look at pushing to the gap between mid-off and extra. Focus on placement rather than power. What you're hoping to do is force a field change which will open a gap elsewhere e.g. slip comes out and you can then consider gliding to third man as less risky. Obviously this applies to good bowling - anything pitching outside / missing leg stick is fair game and a half-volley is a half-volley - when these come along don't miss out by getting too excited and losing shape / trying to over-hit.
Hope that makes some sense?
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Yep that's exactly it, I'd like to improve by adding that extra scoring shot basically so that I can disrupt bowlers without changing my game.
I think the main problem yesterday was I was facing left arm over with the keeper stood up. It's rare to face a left armer anyway and with the keeper up I didn't feel like i could come down the track.
We still won comfortably and our big hitting number 5 got 60* facing bowlers 4/5/6 so I feel like I did my job!
Maybe you just had a problem with the angle?
At the end of the day if you have big hitters around you then you shouldn't change your game especially if it's a long game, every team needs that glue in the middle.
If you feel like you're getting bogged down against a bowler, then go discuss it with your partner?
And maybe mentally change the perception of what's a bad delivery ie everything outside off is not a good delivery and each ball should be played on it's merit. You can move forward as these guys said or even move back, anything to change the bowlers length. Anything to make more decent balls into bad balls.
When I go out and I bat number 3 usually I assess the conditions and for the first few overs I have 2 release shots in my head depending on the line and just try to rotate the strike initially. (Obviously if the bowler is pumped up and charging in, I'll charge him to put him back in his box haha). I also quite like little lofts over the top to push one or two fielders back so I have more access to singles.
But everything stated above is not to change your game but to have minor adjustments to allow you to play your natural game.
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these constructive replies are exactly what i was looking for :-)
a lot of what you guys have said, i already know and have done on various occasions - this has been helpful in reminding myself how to use those skills. as someone noted earlier, i don't struggle for runs, i'm just looking for ways to be better!
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I really think the "shine takers" are dinosaurs. Unless you are playing test match cricket, your goal should always be to put the bowlers under pressure.
Like you say bowlers probably love bowling to you as they get maidens. As a captain I might even want to keep you in for an extended period.
No need to go out and tee off but sometimes you may need to take a few risks. Fields up, balls hard, be positive mate.
I don't always agree with Michael Vaughan, but in a recent article in the Telegraph he said: "...New Zealand have just realised the best way to get the most out of their players is to give them the freedom to play their natural game. If they try to sit in and play attritional cricket it hinders their players’ attacking instincts and will end in failure. They have realised their players are geared more towards the shorter format of the game. They are playing one-day cricket over five days....You need good pitches and the mindset of not being bothered about getting out, so you commit to the stroke. We have seen in Twenty20 cricket over the past few years that the guys who commit to the trick shots are successful and difficult to get out. We have seen from this New Zealand side in Test cricket that when they commit to the shot the ball travels."
This threw up some interesting comments: "After the first test when everyone was gushing about Cook's century, I made the point that the real story was in the batting strike rates, and that the Australians would likely be more impressed with Stoke's effort at a run a ball. Cook's batting is a holdout from a vanished game where the opening batsmen were there to take the shine off the new ball, wear out the bowlers and win some kind of antiquated war of attrition. The only certainty to be had by adopting that attitude in the 21st century is you will bore the fans to death.
Increasingly, Test sides (and the Kiwis were by no means the first, but good on them anyway) realise that you have to have a go from the first over. When it first started out, 50-over cricket was played like a shorter Test match, with batsmen playing themselves in, and not worrying too much about the run rate until about the 30th over or so. The realization that run rate was important from the start of play emerged in the 1980s. Then by the turn of the century, the relationship between the two forms of the game turned upside-down. I reckon Steve Waugh's Australian side were the first, but national sides started adopting one-day batting strategies to Test matches. Waugh's sides rarely scored less that 3.5 runs per over in domestic Tests, with 4 RPO becoming common.
Today it's progressed to the next level. One-day cricket is now being informed by T20, as we saw in the recent World Cup. England, playing the older form of ODI, never stood a chance, though on paper they should have made the quarters at least. Test cricket is evolving just as rapidly, and we now see the emergence of batting shots and bowling approaches developed mainly in the 20-over format. Michael Vaughan is correct in recognizing the trend in scoring rates; but its evolution began long ago, and not with New Zealand."
And: "The main thing T20 seems to have brought to Tests is that batsmen have realised that playing aggressively isn't as risky as was previously thought. You won't get out as soon as you have a go. There's even a hint of village cricket in there too - eventually you're going to get a ball you can do nothing about, so you have to put away every bad ball that comes your way before then."
Countered by: "Cook can continue playing his game. Yes it's not riveting cricket, but it's effective. Balance is always the key. If all your batsmen play like Cook, you will have a problem. If all your batsmen play like Stokes, you will have a problem too. England currently have a pretty good balance in that regard, provided they continue to let the flair players play their game, even when it doesn't come off for a few games."
Cue jokes about Ballance.
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You need to have a get out shot, a shot where you can take a single that you can play in your sleep to a good length ball. Be that a run down to third man, a flick to midwicket or a punch through cover, you need to have a way to get up the other end. The guy can't bowl that well all day, either he'll tire and bowl you some bad balls, or he'll finish his allocation and you can take on whatever comes next.
Whatever the case, don't panic, you've got more time than you think.
Also, this talk of guys taking the shine off being 'dinosaurs', that may be the case in the professional game, but we're talking Saturday League amateur cricket here, i'd rather have someone bat the 50 overs for 80 odd and have plenty of guys around to boost that to a good score than have everyone swinging like madmen and go from scoring 320 to being all out for 80 the next week!
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I really think the "shine takers" are dinosaurs. Unless you are playing test match cricket, your goal should always be to put the bowlers under pressure.
Like you say bowlers probably love bowling to you as they get maidens. As a captain I might even want to keep you in for an extended period.
No need to go out and tee off but sometimes you may need to take a few risks. Fields up, balls hard, be positive mate.
I can understand the sentiment of this, but you're imaginig the best way to get as big a score as possible on a good day. If the wickets start tumbling and you've got 11 thrashers in your side, that line up that can get you 300+ instead of 200 suddenly struggles to get into three figures. I can see the logic that you don't want too many slow scoring players, but there are so few of us around that one or two in a team is usually very handy.
In fact, at my level, even when we're having good days and the big hitters are firing, it's only have one or two barnacles in the line up that mean we bat the full 50 overs.
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Along with seeing off the openers and new ball the way you play is correct I play exactly the same but getting tied down does not concern me as I know that no bowler is good enough to continually bowl six unscorable balls every over and in any case as an opener you know your role in the team and there's usually others in the side waiting to bat who like to give the ball a wack after you have set the innings up for them to do so.