Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: L21 on June 08, 2015, 03:36:17 PM
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Not sure where I should have posted this but is relevant to my match.
As I am sure many of the other forum members do, the batting team are required to umpire their innings (unless someone turns up with an umpire, unlikely!)
I am one of those strange individuals who actually enjoys umpiring, for me it is much more entertaining than sitting and watching or, heaven forbid, scoring!
However, there comes a time when this enjoyment is stubbed out by your opponents.
This weekend, during their batting innings, I was informed by their captain that they "liked an appeal".
I am often umpiring for the first 10 overs of the game, during which the "appealing began"
One over, 2 balls go down the leg side, the next 4 balls hit pad, all going across the bowler and IMHO going down the leg side, particularly as the batsman was about a foot outside the crease.
Next over, the same again happens and again still IMHO going down leg, until the bowler got one to shoot off the deck hitting the batsman on the ankle, however, still IMHO it would have maybe clipped leg stump.
I was then subject to a tirade of abuse from the bowler who not only appealed twice but continued to mutter past me. I informed him of my decision and said that nobody is perfect.
At the end of the following over I had a quiet word with the captain informing him that I would not stand out here and be abused and sworn at. He then spoke to the bowler in question and ended if with "that is enough" to which the bowler aimed in my direction "You should be fair though".
At no point did I perceive myself as being unfair.
I am wondering what I can do when presented with this situation.
As an umpire are you allowed to issue warnings to bowlers?
What other actions can you take?
Any feedback would be great. Have been mulling over this quite a lot since Saturday
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Give nothing, expect nothing and no one is unhappy
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Not a lot you can do mate. I had one guy decide to bowl right arm around the wicket to my right handed team mate. The ball wasn't swinging and was pitching miles outside the leg stump whilst the batsman was playing a shot. Eventually one rapped the pads and of course this mad eyed bowler starts going mental. I obviously shook my head, to which point he started going mental, effing and blinding. I just walked up to him in a non aggressive but firm manner and explained to him the LBW rule and offered to go with him to check up the rules on a phone. He had obviously forgotten about it and became very sheepish. Didn't hear a peep from him for the rest of the game.
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Of the first 12 balls 8 hit the pad?? Your opener is aware he can use his bat?
Midweek we have to ump ourselves. Lbw are very very rare thing.
In fact we had an ump wed. Half appealed for a plum shout, ump gave it. And we just started laughing as it's been so long since we had one!
As pro said. Give nothing expect nothing.
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If you get any abuse, just say to the skipper you won't stand for it and will report them. Preceded to do the whole innings, both ends and give nothing. It is amazing how a team gives nothing, then kick up when they get nothing. Tbh, Irsrely don't ave umpires but I'm learning player ones are probably better!! It's at least consistent if you don't send out the muppets
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This is the nature of low league cricket these days mate. Our number 5 got hit on the pad first ball last week, ball rolled down leg and was obviously missing. Bowler didn't appeal but the keeper (captain, what a disgrace) goes up like crazy and gully (an old bloke) openly says to me at the other end that we're not getting any decisions when we came out.
They had a guy get 120 odd but was hit on the back leg right in front of middle that they turned out early in his innings. We still won but it's frankly embarrassing the way some teams will behave on a cricket field.
Had one guy give a not out when we had a team 9 down in the last over a couple of seasons ago, asked him why and he said 'Pitched outside off'.........
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I saw an alternative approach to this, umpire from my team was giving loads of wides, the oppo reckoned he was being harsh and calling wide when it wasn't. They disagreed, the umpire was of the opinion "I've made my decision, that's the end of it" the oppo were acting like teenagers that had been grounded, whinging and bitching and being sarcastic "pitch it on middle stump then, it'll probably still be wide if he doesn't hit it" so boring, so childish, and at the end of the day they were borderline calls, so make your opinion known once if you need to, and then STFU and take it.
Anyway I was at the non-strikers end and the batsman on strike got stumped, looked clear as day to me, 2ft outside his crease, keeper takes the ball, smashes the bails off and everyone goes up like mad and the umpire walks down the track to the keeper and says "Hold on, your gloves touched the bails..." The keeper LOST it, went bright red, grabbed his head in his hands, spitting with rage and everyone is surrounding the umpire screaming everything you can think of. The umpire then says "No, I mean, I'm asking you. DID your gloves touched the bails before?" and then gave the guy out.
I couldn't tell if the umpire actually had doubts about it, if so then he was pretty brave to ask it surrounded by fielders, if it was intentional then he's a proper devious git.
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I've done the 1 & 1a umpire courses so always end up umpiring first 10 (or until enough wickets fall that I'm needed!). There are a couple of occasions I've done a whole game (12th man, so why nit) and once I did a whole game - both ends! That was tiring!
I always be honest & give both teams the same decision. When I umpire I'm neutral. I know my skipper & the club secretary would be disappointed if I did any different.
Saying that, there are times that other teams blatantly don't give obvious lbws etc. I prefer to keep my integrity even though it might cost us. We are bottom but one division so don't expect the right answer all the time, but we do want to play with honesty and in the 'spirit' of the game.
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Sorry, bit more thoughts.
Sounds like you handled it right & their skipper was man enough to tell his bowler to shut it. Not many will stand up like that.
You can't 'send off' or 'yellow card' unfortunately - as much as you might like to. There are only a few occasions you can remove a bowler (deliberate dangerous bowling for example)
Reporting to the league is your best response. Then it depends how strong your league is.
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Sounds like their captain dealt with it pretty well to be fair? Every team has a nutter bowler who thinks everything is out, and often enough in the lower leagues there's an angry old bloke at gully too. Just have to learn to ignore them and hope the rest of their team thinks they're idiots too.
I've seen a few crackers in my time, been absolutely screamed at for not giving a caught behind on a Sunday and then had the bowler look pretty sheepish when I pointed out I hadn't put the finger up because the batsman had walked! Similar for a stumping before, last wicket of the game when one of our lads was out by a full yard and I'd assumed he would walk, strolled in to shake hands and the oppo are going mental because they think I've turned it down. They cheered up when I gave it though.
Highlight was in a 2s game a few years back against local rivals, they clearly sent a teenager out to do square leg with orders to not give anything. Stumping, miles out, he panicked and came up with the idea that telling us 'his foot was on the line' would save him. His face when I explained the rule that on the line is out was a sight to be seen :D
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Of the first 12 balls 8 hit the pad?? Your opener is aware he can use his bat?
I did mention to said batsmen that he may wish to use his bat as it makes my life much easier! To be fair to the bloke he isn't an opener, was just standing in.
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i'm quite a mischievous fellow, so fully enjoy keeping my finger in my pocket when i know a batsman is about to walk for a caught behind. it's always fun when half the team starts abusing me while the other half is celebrating, and it lets me give a bit back to the oppo as well ;-)
jokes aside, i do prefer to give players the chance to walk before i give them out. i usually give them the eyes, then a slight nod of the head, then if they still haven't turned to go i'll get the finger out!
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Just an update on this. (I feel this may get updated weekly)
After a surprisingly good game of cricket this weekend. There was one blip on a rather enjoyable day.
Doing my normal umpiring session and enjoying some banter against a local side.
An offy had our number 3 tied up with numerous balls hitting the pads, some to an appeal and some not.
He then threw down a quicker one which struck the pads, massive appeal. "Not Out". I then explained my decision to mutterings and comments that I chose to ignore. For anyone interested, I believe the ball hit the batsman outside the line of off stump, to further support my decision, as it was a quicker ball I didn't think it had turned as much and would have missed. Next ball, the ball hits pad straight in line with the stumps, "Out". To which I was congratulated by the sarcastic bowler and informed by long off, "how did I miss the first one", which was obviously plum from 70 metres away. Just to add, after this decision the bowler turned one from outside off to down leg which made me think was my previous decision (Out) the correct one?
After my duties were relieved I had a discussion with the skipper regarding umpiring. After a few points were raised, my biggest argument was that when you are playing a team that appeals every time the ball hits the pad, how can you decipher what appeals are genuine and what are stupid appeals. In all honesty, when teams do this, I am more reluctant to give decisions. The skipper summed this and everything up by saying that: According to the rule book, it is in the "opinion of the umpire".
For anyone who has the opportunity to umpire, how often do you think something is out that nobody appeals for? but then think it is not out when the team have gone up?
As stated earlier in this thread, I am a fair umpire and I will give what I believe is the correct decision (In my opinion). However, when teams excessively appeal or begin to swear e.t.c my opinion soon becomes that it is going to have to send the stumps cartwheeling before you get a decision.
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After reading these stories and hearing similar ones, I'm not looking forward to the time when I slip down the grades and am required to umpire our own games. It seems like most of the times teams and players are good but every now and again it flares up big time.
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I have done a lot of umpiring over the years and do enjoy, I took my level 1 course a couple of years back. I'm sure we'd all agree that the majority of people who play are friendly and respect the laws of the game but you always get the odd few idiots. I tend to have a few witty responses up my sleeve for occasions where the bowlers or fielders are getting chirpy....
"bowl it at the stumps and I'll give"
Bowler : "why wasn't that out?"
Me : "you're not good enough to get him out"
Sometimes I resort to "I'm sorry I literally have no idea what the rules are" (I know they're laws not rules)
Sometimes I like to shower an angry bowler/fielder with love and make them feel special.
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A story I always remember from last season.
Saturday cricket, both teams are supposed to provide an umpire (and most do).
Playing a game where the oppo didn't have one, I'm at square leg both ends, and there is a tight run out. The keeper is stood between myself and the stumps when he takes the ball, so I can't know when the bails are off. As it's tight I give not out, benefit to the batsman - I genuinely don't know if it's out.
They give me some grief, at end of the over I walked up to their keeper and explained why I made my decision, he was embarrassed and agreed with me. Whilst I've been chatting with him fine leg as ran all the way up to say "I could see that was out from fine leg mate, don't cheat".
Couldn't be arsed to explain my decision to someone who couldn't see jack from 50m away just said summet along the lines of "Should've brought an umpire then". He shut up and walked back to fine leg.
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when i umpire i tend to be a not outer
i counted up all the lbw decisions we gave as a side one season and it was 3 times as many as we had got from the oppo, too many inexperienced lads sticking their fingers in the air when a batsmen might be out, you have to be sure.
its amazing the amount of people that will go out to umpire and not take into account the bowlers action, where the ball pitches, where it hits them, if its in line, the height, how far out the crease the batsmen is standing and even if it pitches outside of leg stump.
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I'm thinking about doing a bit of league umpiring this season while I recover from a broken arm. I've got my level 1 and have done loads of umpiring with my club but never as a neutral. I'm not sure where to start! Has anyone got an idiot's guide - what to wear, what you need to bring onto the field etc?!
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Give the league a call and ask. There may be certain things you need from the league in way of team cards/umpire cards.
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I'm thinking about doing a bit of league umpiring this season while I recover from a broken arm. I've got my level 1 and have done loads of umpiring with my club but never as a neutral. I'm not sure where to start! Has anyone got an idiot's guide - what to wear, what you need to bring onto the field etc?!
I used to be a qualified ump back in my teens/early 20's ( you cant imagine the grief i copped ) , umpired sundays in pub comps etc . Probably did about 120-150 matches all up . Anyway ,re what to wear , check with the comp re black pants/white shirt/tie ?etc . Also , you're not playing , so you can use rubber spikes if you prefer ( even on turf) .... they are more comfy when standing in essentially the same spot all day. I always would have a spike key and a couple spare spikes ( creates a good impression ) , a belt clip ( for hats etc , looks real pro ) ,sunscreen , a small towel , a counter ( of course ) ,a copy of the laws of cricket , a copy of any local association/league rules etc ,sunglasses, and the most crucial part... a note pad and pencil . This was to keep my own tally of overs per bowler , but it also allowed me to communicate to the bowler by first name ( written in the note pad in case i forgot ) . Bowlers tend to behave a little better when you're using their names . Also , if anyone , particularly a bowler , starts giving you grief / carrying on etc , you just get out the note pad and pencil . If it's serious you actually write down what's occured . If it's not so serious but you'd prefer the behaviour stops , then you just pretend you're writing something down . It's amazing how many people improve their behaviour when they think it is being documented .
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It's amazing how much Sunday's fixture against Village Priests 3rd XI matters to some people.
I quite enjoy a bit of umpiring, but have seen some daft behaviour from both my own and opposition teams (Once told by my captain as I walked out to square leg to keep my finger down, then got scalded when I came back in for giving a run out when our bat was 2 yards short, sad day that.)
Been on the other side too, given out lbw to balls pitching outside leg etc, I feel gutted on the walk back to the pavillion. Then I remind myself that I'm playing the game I love, in one of the safest countries in the world, whilst others are getting shelled in their own homes by oppressive governments.
Could be worse. Let it go.
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three games into my umpiring adventure, i thought i'd do a bit of a field report. this post does contain a question at the bottom rather than just being a self indulgent monologue, so please do read on!
Context
I'm 31, been playing since I was a kid, usually a keeper/bat at a reasonable standard in South Wales. I moved to London over the winter, and while I was looking for a club to play for I broke my arm playing football. My research identified a club near where I live which was looking for umpires, and whose social media presence suggested they would be a good bunch of blokes. I'm a Level 1 qualified umpire and have done a lot of informal standing as we often have to umpire ourselves in the leagues I've played in, so I reached out and offered my services. Anything to get out of the house and get the missus used to the idea of me being out all day on a Saturday!
Matches
On the way to Putney CC for the first game of the season, I kitted myself out with a small notebook, pen and some counters, so I was ready for anything. I'd read up on league rules and picked up some useful forum tips. I refreshed my memory of my Level 1 course around such things as positioning.
My first observation is that the standard is a little lower than I'm used to, and so there's less of an edge in terms of the competitiveness of the teams. Everyone wants to win but there's no d*ckhead behaviour which is really quite refreshing compared to the "win at all costs" mentality of Premier League cricket. Each team provides an umpire who is not part of the playing XI, and there's been some genuine camaraderie between the umpires so far. I've found myself integrating nicely into the Putney club, getting to know peoples' names and styles of play, but still being able to umpire as neutrally as possible.
In addition, because I'm clearly still young enough and in reasonable shape, everyone has been asking me about myself. Opposition teams always enquire about whether I play at all, or hear that I'm a currently injured player and want to chat about it. I find this really interesting and quite rewarding.
Performance
In the three games I've stood in so far, Putney have won 1 and lost 2. I have to say, I don't think any of the decisions I've either made or not made have had a material impact on the results. There haven't been too many really difficult decisions, and the main challenge of umpiring is having the concentration span to still be alert after 90 overs of standing still. Being an opening bat helps in this regard.
On a couple of occasions, I've turned down appeals for lbw or caught behind and been engaged in debate about them later. More so about the caught behind actually, but I'm still convinced he didn't hit it. These have always been from my "own" team and never has any opposition player questioned one of my decisions. My team have been happy to accept my decision making but do want to understand whether I've seen or heard the same thing as them, and what my interpretation is.
Thoughts on umpiring
Here's the thing, and the main reason for me writing this post. Sorry if anyone is bored. I've really, genuinely enjoyed umpiring over the last few weeks, and I believe that I'm reasonably good at it. However, I'm now over my injury and there have been a few enquiries about whether I'd like to play. I'm torn. I still have a lot to offer as a player, but this is a new club so they have no reliance on me, and obviously I'm never going to play at a really good standard again. I've started to consider that perhaps I could progress to that level if I concentrated on building my experience and education as an umpire.
What do people think? Obviously it's entirely my decision to make but I'd love to hear your opinions - particularly @Biggie Smalls as you obviously gave up umpiring at some point?
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the big question to ask yourself is will you enjoy playing for this new club? if the answer si yes its a no brainer for me as the worst can happen is you umpire some games and play other, as you seem to be enjoying the umpiring it seems a win win for me, at the amateur level enjoyment is all that truly matters
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Not sure where I should have posted this but is relevant to my match.
As I am sure many of the other forum members do, the batting team are required to umpire their innings (unless someone turns up with an umpire, unlikely!)
I am one of those strange individuals who actually enjoys umpiring, for me it is much more entertaining than sitting and watching or, heaven forbid, scoring!
However, there comes a time when this enjoyment is stubbed out by your opponents.
This weekend, during their batting innings, I was informed by their captain that they "liked an appeal".
I am often umpiring for the first 10 overs of the game, during which the "appealing began"
One over, 2 balls go down the leg side, the next 4 balls hit pad, all going across the bowler and IMHO going down the leg side, particularly as the batsman was about a foot outside the crease.
Next over, the same again happens and again still IMHO going down leg, until the bowler got one to shoot off the deck hitting the batsman on the ankle, however, still IMHO it would have maybe clipped leg stump.
I was then subject to a tirade of abuse from the bowler who not only appealed twice but continued to mutter past me. I informed him of my decision and said that nobody is perfect.
At the end of the following over I had a quiet word with the captain informing him that I would not stand out here and be abused and sworn at. He then spoke to the bowler in question and ended if with "that is enough" to which the bowler aimed in my direction "You should be fair though".
At no point did I perceive myself as being unfair.
I am wondering what I can do when presented with this situation.
As an umpire are you allowed to issue warnings to bowlers?
What other actions can you take?
Any feedback would be great. Have been mulling over this quite a lot since Saturday
Warn the bowler and the Captain anymore of it and you will report him to the league for umpire abuse.warn the Captain that you will report him to the league for failing to control players. Most leagues take this sort of thing seriously these days and will take action agaiInst the player and Captain.
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Warn the bowler and the Captain anymore of it and you will report him to the league for umpire abuse.warn the Captain that you will report him to the league for failing to control players. Most leagues take this sort of thing seriously these days and will take action agaiInst the player and Captain.
Don't think he will tbh considering that was June 2015 :D
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You may miss playing sometimes, but as someone willing to umpire, you'll be as valuable as the groundsman. Clubs need more people like yourself.
Plus, You'll never have to buy a tea again!
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@richthekeeper , good to hear things have gone ok so far .
I started umpiring while still a teen and kept doing it through my early 20s, mainly for the extra pocket money whilst at uni . I really enjoyed umpiring , it's satisfying in a hard-to-describe kind of way .
I never had to pick between playing and umpiring since i played saturdays and umped on sundays . I gave up umpiring mostly due to my bad back ( it's far easier to play cricket , and people don't understand just how hard it is to stand , essentially in the same spot , for so many hours ) . I have had a few 'what if' thoughts over the years re what coulda-shoulda-woulda happened if i kept umpiring.
I see your conundrum and see either option valid and worthwhile . I won't directly give an opinion/ state what you should do etc, but rather , I'll just say how it was for me .
I played a bit of 1st grade , mainly twos . Did my knee and got back problems when i was 19-20 . Went down to 3-4th grades while i tought myself to become a spinner and opening bat ( i was a pace bowler until then). After a couple years i hadn't really progressed much with my cricket/ trying to get up the grades . Eventually i got really depressed about playing at a lower standard than i had always been aiming for . I got so upset about it that I quit cricket for 10 years . I got back into cricket , just park cricket for a year or two then had another crack at trying to play grade etc . I seemed to be hovering at the same standards as before . I quit after a few years . I had 4 seasons off ... until the beginning of last season . I was now almost 38yo and used the off season to throw everything at my preseason training , like i never had before . I made 2nd grade at the start of the season . After about 4 games I went up to 1st grade and stayed there for the remainder of the season .
My body is shot, ive got so many injuries - refer to the '2017 hurties' thread to read about my total 'crockness' . I'm in worse physical condition than ever , but my fitness is good because i worked hard . My cricketing form is good because i work at it all the time . Just in the last two weeks my batting at the bowling machines has given me so much joy because i honestly feel im batting so much better than i ever had ( I'll be 39 in six months) .
Basically , im just questioning how certain you can be re that your best cricket is 100% behind you .
The last thing I'll do is ask this - do you ever wish you were playing when you are umpiring ? And conversely, do you ever wish you were umpiring when you are playing ?
Cheers mate , and good luck either way .
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enjoy your umpiring when you retire from playing
IMO as long as you enjoy it then whenever you get the chance to play then you should play
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I took up umpiring 3 years ago, completely by accident really. Having taken the L1 course to help with the umpiring I was doing for the clubs junior section and doing quite well in the exam, I'd been approached by two leagues to stand. At the time I was only 40 and still enjoying playing so it wasn't really considered.
A few games into the season and due to a back injury a few years before I was finding it harder to recover after a days play and not performing at a level I personally was happy with. I'd always said once I decided that's enough there would be no going back and so I took a couple of weeks before making the decision. I'd already been selected for the weekend so knew it was going to be my last game. A reasonable score and a few overs and wickets under my belt didnt change my mind and after getting showered and changed I spoke to the captain briefly and told him of my decision.
What next then....shopping with the wife, gardening or decorating all weekend were not options as that's what the winter is for and I'd be divorced if I ended up in the pub all day.
Again the call came from the league once they'd heard I'd hung up my boots, 'Go on then I'll give it a go!'
Fortunately the league operate a mentoring system where all new umpires stand for several matches with experienced umpires who are willing to pass on knowledge, wisdom and advise. These matches are usually in the lower divisions and so the game is relatively slow and you've got time to learn and develop the craft. Over time we are assessed and moved up the divisions as appropriate.
After 26 years of playing I thought it was going to be easy...how wrong I was! There is so much to learn and indeed now into my 4th season and having attained my level 2 qualification, standing in 3 cup finals and in my second season on the ECB Yorkshire Premier Leagues Umpiring panel I'm still learning every game.
You're a long time retired from playing and umpiring is not a replacement but its not far off and if done correctly can allow you to participate at levels you couldn't have achieved as a player
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Unless you are hoping to get to the professional levels of umpiring, I'd say give playing a few more years yet, at least find out whether you still have the urge. You can get to a decent level of panel umpiring in 4-8 years quite easily (I managed to get some Yorkshire League games in my only season of umpiring back in the 90s)
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I've only umpired in friendlies for 10 overs or so but I do find it more interesting than sitting in the pavilion. Having read through this thread I'm amazed how many players think it is a good idea to moan at an umpire and get on the wrong side of him.
When I'm keeping I try to put the bails back on as much as possible so the square leg doesn't have to come in. I also run to the umpire to hand him the ball when a wicket falls. When I bat I try to strike up a conversation with an umpire. It must be nice to have a chat with a player and secretly I hope he might give me the benefit if he likes me.
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Unless you are hoping to get to the professional levels of umpiring, I'd say give playing a few more years yet, at least find out whether you still have the urge. You can get to a decent level of panel umpiring in 4-8 years quite easily (I managed to get some Yorkshire League games in my only season of umpiring back in the 90s)
Times have changed! Things are far more professional these days with regular assessments and advance qualifications. Only after acquiring my level 2 was I able to stand in ECB National competitions and these appointments are made based upon competence and performance rather than it used to be....who you knew and who was available
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I've only umpired in friendlies for 10 overs or so but I do find it more interesting than sitting in the pavilion. Having read through this thread I'm amazed how many players think it is a good idea to moan at an umpire and get on the wrong side of him.
When I'm keeping I try to put the bails back on as much as possible so the square leg doesn't have to come in. I also run to the umpire to hand him the ball when a wicket falls. When I bat I try to strike up a conversation with an umpire. It must be nice to have a chat with a player and secretly I hope he might give me the benefit if he likes me.
Hows life at Hallam? I'm there on Monday
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Times have changed! Things are far more professional these days with regular assessments and advance qualifications. Only after acquiring my level 2 was I able to stand in ECB National competitions and these appointments are made based upon competence and performance rather than it used to be....who you knew and who was available
I didn't know anyone - though I suspect I was allowed to start on the old A qualification rather than going through the grades as a sympathy thing ( one knee spectacularly screwed up)
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Hows life at Hallam? I'm there on Monday
I'm really glad I moved. Great club moving forwards.
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As stated earlier in this thread, I am a fair umpire and I will give what I believe is the correct decision (In my opinion). However, when teams excessively appeal or begin to swear e.t.c my opinion soon becomes that it is going to have to send the stumps cartwheeling before you get a decision.
That's not the definition of fairness. But an umpire should be in control of the situation at all times. If there is abuse, warn the player and inform the captain immediately. We have 2 league umpires appointed for every game, but I have seen situations where the umpire thinks he may have given a wrong decision and lets the players get on top of him. Umpires have the right to send a player off in our league but I have yet to see that happen. In our last game the opposition captain had an appeal turned down and we could hear him from the pavilion shouting, "What more do i have to do?". He then proceeded to sit down next to the pitch and bang his hands in desperation, keeper flung off his gloves, another player threw his cap on the ground. Yet the umpires did nothing.
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update on this - I'm playing on Sunday ;)