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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: FattusCattus on August 13, 2015, 11:57:13 AM
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In light of this 'utterance' from the current Ashington manager http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33906773 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33906773) (has he even seen him play?) - it made me think of what a challenge this would be to pick the right pair of spinners for this tour.
working on the principle that Root and Ali count as one spinner, another two need to go on the tour, so I started thinking about the contenders -
Riley - don't think he's done anything this season
Rashid - surely next cab off the block
Kerrigan - don't think he's done much either?
Tredders - surely that ship has sailed?
so then we get into the wild cards -
Jordan Crane - who?
Ravi Patel - Lions man, but little first class experience
Anasari -
Briggs - Has he bowled this season?
Monty - No coincidence he's suddenly been brought back into the fold?
After that, I'm struggling really.
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Ansari - he can also opening the batting which kills two birds with one stone - and is a leftie.
Rashid is far too temperamental
No one else really runs him close in my view.
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Could do worse than look at Scott Borthwick. Decent bat too
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Well this season Riley hasn't backed last season up.
Kerrigan is a bit of a forgotten man.
Tredwell I hope has sailed.
Crane looks good but is an 18 year old leggie for goodness sake!
Ravi Patel can't get in the Middlesex side and was on loan at Essex a few weeks ago.
Dawson looks a better bowler than Briggs at the moment. Think him and Crane are ahead in the pecking order.
Monty you hear bad things about at the moment.
Ansari looks to be developing nicely.
Anyways, the attack is going to be Anderson, Broad, Stokes, Ali and Rashid with Root an option. Ansari to go as the back up.
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Riley cant even get in Kent's first XI, he did well last year but seems to have struggled this year.
Ali/Rashid and Root will be our options in that series
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If we are looking at kids, may as well throw Rob Sayer into the mix, did very well for England at the U19 World Cup and has just made his FC debut for Leics, snaring 3 poles.
He can bat too, properly. Eng U19 batted him far too low in my opinion.
It will be Rashid though one would assume, with Moeen moving up the order at the expense of Lyth, unless he scores a triple ton at the Oval of course...
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Could do worse than look at Scott Borthwick. Decent bat too
I think Borthwick nowadays is much more of a "batsman who bowls" rather than a frontline spinner who can bat a little, if Moeen isn't a frontline spinner I'm not sure Borthwick is either (just my opinion).
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Anasari I think is the leading wicket taker in the CC out of English qualified spinners. However, you need someone who is just thinking of bowling spin and not another batsman who bowls a bit. Anyone seen him bowl?
Patel is a bit of a stupid situation - Middx remain obsessed with Oliie Rayner, who really doesn't take wickets. Patel is a far, far better bowler, especially on a helpful surface. He gets one start, and immediately takes 5 wickets. Lacks FC experience though.
It is a bit of a pickle this isn't it? I'd take Rashid and Anasari - don't see many other candidates.
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We've got a 14 year old leggie that taken 40 odds wickets this year at senior level......
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Well, Ansari can play piano. So that's one plus.
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It is a bit of a pickle this isn't it? I'd take Rashid and Anasari - don't see many other candidates.
Totally agree, Rashid has to play doesn't he? I'm not 100% convinced about him but surely he's done enough to deserve a go at it?
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Ansari is a fantastic fielder. I suspect, given how much he's bowled this season, Surrey may have been asked by the ECB to get him bowling more...
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Events this summer suggest the majority on here ought to leave England selection well alone.
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Ansari is a fantastic fielder. I suspect, given how much he's bowled this season, Surrey may have been asked by the ECB to get him bowling more...
I think they've bowled him totally on merit. I like him very much. He will play for England, for sure. Not sure he's ready yet.
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He's not ready for selection. I'm not sure he's a good enough bowler for test level yet, but he is a very clever lad
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You have to assume Rashid, wouldn't be surprised if he got a game at the Oval, going in with two spinners
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I have seen Ansari bowl quite a lot this year, he's being doing alright. Had a particularly good game bowling wise at the Oval vs Gloucestershire if I recall correctly.
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I just don't see Rashid being successful at test level. Too many bad balls - plus how do you fit him into the team?
Basically you have to bin Lyth or Finn/Wood.
I don't buy this "he's not ready" mentality. Look at Sam Curren - he is 17 - is he ready to play first class cricket? he hasn't even sat his A-levels yet. Except he has played and done brilliantly. Ansari should play.
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I just don't see Rashid being successful at test level. Too many bad balls - plus how do you fit him into the team?
Basically you have to bin Lyth or Finn/Wood.
I don't buy this "he's not ready" mentality. Look at Sam Curren - he is 17 - is he ready to play first class cricket? he hasn't even sat his A-levels yet. Except he has played and done brilliantly. Ansari should play.
I feel sure Ansari will play for England many more times than Rashid. But people have been ruined by being played too soon. Simon Kerrigan, possibly?
It hope, one day, Moeen Ali will be able to bat in the top five - allowing another spinner to play.
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I just don't see Rashid being successful at test level. Too many bad balls - plus how do you fit him into the team?
Basically you have to bin Lyth or Finn/Wood.
I don't buy this "he's not ready" mentality. Look at Sam Curren - he is 17 - is he ready to play first class cricket? he hasn't even sat his A-levels yet. Except he has played and done brilliantly. Ansari should play.
to get Rashid in for the Oval Ali would need to move up and Lyth get dropped which would make no sense, they might as well give the guy another match.To get Rashid, or another spinner in for the UAE England would have to rest a seamer which is probably what they will do.It's no good bowling them into the ground on unhelpful pitches.Wood doe'snt look the sort to bowl every match to me with that action.
On a purely personal note I would like to see Adam Riley move forward as one of our ex colts is registered at Kent and it would be the first time a player from our club plays first class cricket :)
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You have to assume Rashid, wouldn't be surprised if he got a game at the Oval, going in with two spinners
Didn't think the oval spun that much to warrant two twirlers always thought pace and bounce.
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Didn't think the oval spun that much to warrant two twirlers always thought pace and bounce.
Stand to be corrected but I think the last time England played two spinners was Cardiff in the Ashes 2009?
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Oval test 2013? Kerrigan and Swann.
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I am looking forward to seeing Yasir Shah bowl against England.
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It will be Rashid though one would assume, with Moeen moving up the order at the expense of Lyth, unless he scores a triple ton at the Oval of course...
This with brass knobs on.
England had got a recent history of ruining spinners careers.
They have chosen to go with Ali as their front line spinner, whether this pays off or not we will see. Lets be honest, Ali doesn't even turn it off the deck, but has taken wickets.
Rashid is the back up option who no one has seen anything of at Test level and I would be really disappointed if England change it to accommodate him. (Bit like footballers turning up for the last game of the season to collect a winners medal when they haven't played)
All I can say is god help the future of England cricket if we really thing an 18 year old leggy is the future of cricket. Sorry Steve, but Div 2 is a long way from Test cricket.
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Graeme Swann was talking about the Oval turning on TMS, admittedly at the start of the Ashes, don't know if that's changed.
Could see them leaving out Wood/Finn if it does turn, to have a look at Rashid/whoever before going to the UAE where they will need to play two twirlers - leaving out a seamer creates the minimum of disruption, in my humble opinion.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33906773 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33906773)
and it begins... That's gotta be record quick time for a bit of hype?
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Not a one for reading the start of a thread are you? :)
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:( :( :(
May have missed the first line, the list underneath kind of drew my attention :-[.
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Graeme Swann was talking about the Oval turning on TMS, admittedly at the start of the Ashes, don't know if that's changed.
Could see them leaving out Wood/Finn if it does turn, to have a look at Rashid/whoever before going to the UAE where they will need to play two twirlers - leaving out a seamer creates the minimum of disruption, in my humble opinion.
I really do hope they don't change the team for the last test, regardless of Anderson's fitness - you can't walk over the Aussies like at Trent Bridge and then go experimenting. Make it 4-1 and then turn focus to the UAE.
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I think it is absolutely paramount that England play the same test team at the Oval.
They need to smash the Aussies out of sight again, and not just because I am going!
I think 3-2 would make it look as if it was a close series and would take away from the Trent Bridge performance. A draw wouldn't be terrible, but to give themselves big boost for the one dayers and UAE tour, a big win would be good.
I think this England team need to realise that they are currently a good team, I am unsure whether they can be a great team, but i think the next 18 months or so will determine that.
Tests only
Pakistan (Away)
South Africa (Away)
Sri Lanka
Pakistan
Bangladesh (Away)
India (Away)
South Africa
Windies
Australia
27 Test matches in the next 2 years, as well as T20 and One Day World Cups
There is a real opportunity to prove yourselves as greats, with the only player's really being a doubt for the next two years are Anderson and Bell.
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They need to smash the Aussies out of sight again, and not just because I am going!
Haha, I'm going day 4 so hopefully they smash them but just a little slower!!!
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I think we can all agree they need to take 3 spinners, one will be Moeen, one will be Rashid. But who do they take to be the drinks boy, i mean 3rd spinner?
To my mind i think it'll be Ansari, but again he's a batsman who bowls a few darts, rather than an out and out spinner. I wouldn't mind them taking a young guy, as tbh, he's not going to play. Will Beer is a good shout to my mind, he's got all the variations and he's got the minerals as we saw last night vs Northants. Although, having looked, his First Class & 50 over numbers are awful. Not all about the past though.....
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I think there is a really good opportunity for them to test a few spinners in UAE.
With a squad of 18, take 4 spinners and rotate two on, two off, unless one gets smashed or one finds really good rhythm.
I suppose there is a big question mark over Tredwell, the selectors (pre-Bayliss) liked him.
They really need a proper spinner, if he can score 20 odd then that's a bonus, people seem to forget that Moeen Ali is an opening bat, batting at number 8 because we haven't got a capable spinner in the England ranks, its just because Joe Root is a better batsman that Moeen was selected for his spin. He definitely isn't in for his batting.
I think one T20 performance is a long way from Test Cricket.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed out numerous times, the English game just isn't blessed with spinners at the moment.
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Rotating players with that regularity will never happen - not least because the press and media will rip them apart - you can see it now, haven't got a world class spinner, so you pick 3 or 4 and hope for the best. Chants of 'you don't know what you're doing'Add in the fact that you need to ensure the ones you take who are on the periphery are good tourers and they won't want to take a car-full of twirlers for a three test series - why risk taking more water carriers that may be easily bored and bring the mood down?
They like Ali as much for his lower order runs and counter attacking as they do for his bowling - he will improve. Don't forget the last time we went to the UAE - absolutely battered and lucky to only lose 3-0 in a three test series... We need lower order batting, which is another reason why I think Ali and Rashid will be the two. I think Bayliss will want to take a look at Rashid though, which is why I think he may play at the Oval.
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Rotating players with that regularity will never happen - not least because the press and media will rip them apart - you can see it now, haven't got a world class spinner, so you pick 3 or 4 and hope for the best. Chants of 'you don't know what you're doing'Add in the fact that you need to ensure the ones you take who are on the periphery are good tourers and they won't want to take a car-full of twirlers for a three test series - why risk taking more water carriers that may be easily bored and bring the mood down?
They like Ali as much for his lower order runs and counter attacking as they do for his bowling - he will improve. Don't forget the last time we went to the UAE - absolutely battered and lucky to only lose 3-0 in a three test series... We need lower order batting, which is another reason why I think Ali and Rashid will be the two. I think Bayliss will want to take a look at Rashid though, which is why I think he may play at the Oval.
I completely agree with you on the above 100%
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1. But we haven't got a World Class spinner and I think the world knows that.
2. How can you get worse than losing 3-0 in a 3 match test series? ;) (We are always embarrassing overseas.)
3. I don't think Ali has proven a success at lower order scoring, definitely not what you would expect from an opening batsman and Rashid is unproven.
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I see people labelling Borthwick as a batsman who can bowl a bit and at the start of the season I would've agreed with you. BUT he's bowled a lot more this season and he's done brilliant with it! The ECB sent him away in the winter for his bowling so he's obviously still in their thoughts, and he's backed that trip up with a lot of wickets to go with his mountain of runs.
I don't think we have a genuine spinner with spinning being their prime role that's suitable, so why not another 'batsman who can bat a bit'.
I maybe biased in the way I was with Stokes, Stoneman and Rushworth, but I genuinely think Borthwick would be a good pick and do well.
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I see people labelling Borthwick as a batsman who can bowl a bit and at the start of the season I would've agreed with you. BUT he's bowled a lot more this season and he's done brilliant with it!
9 wickets at 57? Brilliant?
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9 wickets at 57? Brilliant?
The Aussies thought so ;)
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tbh i thinks it's kind of a no-brainer. Lyth isn't peforming - drop him. Ali is batting well but lacking in first class spin and also has opening experience in odi + 4-day cc. Rashid will probably play in the UAE as we will put out 2 spinners plus he can bat a bit down at 8.
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Can't see Ali opening the batting for England. No.5 maybe.
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I'm not sure that any current test side has a stand out spinner, there's no murali, warne or even vettori around at the moment. Stick with Ali and Rashid. I'd like to see both of them play in UAE with 5 bowlers in the team.
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Yasir Shah is awesome.
http://youtu.be/F2V8rk1t2ck (http://youtu.be/F2V8rk1t2ck)
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9 wickets at 57? Brilliant?
In all forms it's just over 30. After checking I realise his CC figures aren't as impressive as I thought, but either way I think he's improved greatly and would deserve a ace in the squad.
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Surely Rashid will play... Don't think the 'new' England has changed so much that the selection isn't still 100% predictable - Current top 8 then Rashid, Broad, Anderson for the UAE.
Can see Ansari touring, we'll need a spare spinner if we're playing two and they won't want to take a big squad for a 3 test series. Ansari, Bairstow, Wood and Finn to be the extra players perhaps.
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Yasir Shah is awesome.
He's only played 10 tests though, Mendis made the same impact but hasn't lived up to his billing. I'm not saying he's won't be a quality test spinner just that at the moment there is a dearth of top quality spinners across all test sides.
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I completely agree with you on the above 100%
but -
1. But we haven't got a World Class spinner and I think the world knows that. Completely agree, but we can't magic one up from somewhere, so get Ali working with Swann on his game and pick the guy they think is the next best - seems to be Rashid...
2. How can you get worse than losing 3-0 in a 3 match test series? ;) (We are always embarrassing overseas.) My pathetic attempt at humour I'm afraid!
3. I don't think Ali has proven a success at lower order scoring, definitely not what you would expect from an opening batsman and Rashid is unproven.
I think he's better than we've had over the years (I remember the 90s!) and seems to be able to frequently score 30+ and 50s aren't a surprise. I don't need much more from a number 8
I don't know who our second best (or even best) spinner is - I don;t follow county cricket anywhere near as much as some on the forum do. I just think this is the way England will go and I can see a logic in it...
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He's only played 10 tests though, Mendis made the same impact but hasn't lived up to his billing. I'm not saying he's won't be a quality test spinner just that at the moment there is a dearth of top quality spinners across all test sides.
You said that no side has a standout spinner. Shah stands out at the moment because he's getting wickets and bowling awesome leg spin. I don't mind how many tests he's played - it's exciting to see someone who doesn't bowl 4 balls every over or bowl darts at leg stump.
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By a stand out I meant a proven spinner over time
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They like Ali as much for his lower order runs and counter attacking as they do for his bowling - he will improve. Don't forget the last time we went to the UAE - absolutely battered and lucky to only lose 3-0 in a three test series... We need lower order batting, which is another reason why I think Ali and Rashid will be the two. I think Bayliss will want to take a look at Rashid though, which is why I think he may play at the Oval.
I enjoyed the gag mate, no need to apologise if some chap didn't get it.
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There are two ways England can go really - either they're happy with Stokes as the third seamer and will bring in Rashid for one of Anderson/Wood/Finn in a more or less straight swap, or they're worried about him and the stresses that might be placed on the big dogs as a result - if that's the case, I can foresee a pragmatic choice, with either Ali or Ansari called in as a makeshift opener.
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Bring back Samit, heat in UAE he may shed a lb or 2!
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ansari has done ok this season, but to say he's anywhere near Test standard as a batsman? If Lyth can dominate for two years in the first division and then struggle in the big stuff, sending Zafar out to bat in such unfamiliar conditions is unfair.
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Bring back Samit, heat in UAE he may shed a lb or 2!
Or keel over of heat exhaustion!
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ansari has done ok this season, but to say he's anywhere near Test standard as a batsman? If Lyth can dominate for two years in the first division and then struggle in the big stuff, sending Zafar out to bat in such unfamiliar conditions is unfair.
Lyth has struggled in one series against a top notch new ball attack - if he is given the chance he'll come good I reckon, though recent history says he had this Summer and this Summer alone.
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Lyth has struggled in one series against a top notch new ball attack - if he is given the chance he'll come good I reckon, though recent history says he had this Summer and this Summer alone.
As I said in the Buzz's thread - I think that Lyth will/should get more time.
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He's only played 10 tests though, Mendis made the same impact but hasn't lived up to his billing. I'm not saying he's won't be a quality test spinner just that at the moment there is a dearth of top quality spinners across all test sides.
True. But Mendis was mysterious, who once got figured out became very easy for batsman's. While Yasir Shah is a genuine leg spinner.
Shane Warne rates him quite highly. Not sure how and why, I'm not into spinners.