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Forum News and Suggestions => Old Advertisers => Admin Board => It's Just Cricket => Topic started by: ItsJustCricket on October 14, 2015, 04:04:41 PM

Title: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 14, 2015, 04:04:41 PM
Not everyone will like me for writing this, but I couldn't help myself!  :-[

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cricket-bat-manufacturers-vs-brands-paul-cole?trk=prof-post (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cricket-bat-manufacturers-vs-brands-paul-cole?trk=prof-post)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 14, 2015, 04:07:05 PM
Your bats are handmade by the master batmakers at Newbery?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 14, 2015, 04:15:42 PM
good read and an interesting point,
i have an adidas bat with adidas stickers on it yet i know they didnt make it themsleves (and still dont know who made it now) but i should stress i bought it on pick up and feel not for the stickers. however i now after being on this forum i wouldn't buy a "main brand" bat or softs for that matter without seriously considering one of the manufacturers that i have found off this forum, hell 4 leather, B3, Rob pack etc as i know feel that knowing where the product is coming from is key.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 14, 2015, 04:53:53 PM
Having read the Blog my view is the batmakers who manufacture  and sticker bats for other non bat making brands or sell part mades  knowing there bats will be shaped and stickered as someone elses brand must take some of the blame for misleading the public.
iMO they are ruining it for themselves as they then become competitors with these companies.


 
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Northern monkey on October 14, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
It's the nature of the world these days

The brand is what's important, where the products manufactured less so, it's a fact

You say cricket bats are no longer mass produced?
I think gm and kippax have a pretty good go at mass production? And to a certain extent b3.

I'm not a fan of the cloak and dagger stuff surrounding bat brands either
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Andythomo21 on October 14, 2015, 05:48:41 PM
After a visit to Kippax' premises myself, they produce very few bats per year.  Their main business is dealing in willow!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: iand123 on October 14, 2015, 06:09:59 PM
as always you'll create debate Paul :-)

Sorry if I have misread your article so are you not stocking brands who don't make their own bats anymore, if so presume Kookaburra and Spartan are off of your list, even GN (unless you are only stocking high end UK made models)? Or is it just brands that have "lied" to you about it you won't stock them?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 14, 2015, 06:16:38 PM
Your bats are handmade by the master batmakers at Newbery?


http://newbery.co.uk/pages/about-newbery (http://newbery.co.uk/pages/about-newbery)

Don't Newbery outsource some of their bat making?
And doesn't TK have a CNC machine?  ;)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 14, 2015, 06:43:25 PM
After a visit to Kippax' premises myself, they produce very few bats per year.  Their main business is dealing in willow!

Correct also Kippax are the second biggest willow merchant in the UK.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: JB on October 14, 2015, 06:44:40 PM
Is Paul not just trying to say if you are paying a premium expecting an English made bat, make sure you get one and are not paying English made money for an imported bat?

I can totally understand bat makers selling bats to other brands, if I'd spent the money it required on all the necessary machinery I'd want to make sure I was getting the optimum return from it. If that meant selling to other brands then so be it
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 14, 2015, 06:47:40 PM
Many have said its hard to make a top top loving out of your own cricket brand.


Having several cricket brands come it of your factory on the other hand....... Shouldn't decrease your income atleast.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 14, 2015, 07:00:48 PM
At the end of the day it's up to the Consumer to decide wether he wants to know where and who his bat  is made by .As its your choice Paul to only sell Bats that are made by the actual bat maker himself and not by someone who out sources his bats and stickers them up. Is this any different too soft Manufactures all B&S Softs are made in India and we have our logo branded all over them selling them as Bellingham and Smith pads and gloves but we don't make them ?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 14, 2015, 07:14:48 PM
Many have said its hard to make a top top loving out of your own cricket brand.


Having several cricket brands come it of your factory on the other hand....... Shouldn't decrease your income atleast.

It probably is hard for the smaller companies but for me brands that don't make their own bats but give the impression and allow the public to believe  that they do is just wrong.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on October 14, 2015, 07:16:27 PM
So who are the bat makers for

Piri Piri
CP
Phantom
Mars Cricket

Just in case I bought one and wanted to speak to the pod shaver?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Batbuddy99 on October 14, 2015, 07:19:08 PM
Ha Piri Piri do NOT make their own bats
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tushar sehgal on October 14, 2015, 07:26:46 PM
Did I read the article/blog wrong or are other not reading it correctly? What I got from the post was that IJC don't stock brands that are not honest with them (IJC) about where the bat comes from. GN was a good example used where GN are open abt their bats (majority) not being made in the UK.

I have not purchased some of the other brands mentioned here so don't know what their claims are.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 14, 2015, 07:35:21 PM
At the end of the day it's up to the Consumer to decide wether he wants to know where and who his bat  is made by .As its your choice Paul to only sell Bats that are made by the actual bat maker himself and not by someone who out sources his bats and stickers them up. Is this any different too soft Manufactures all B&S Softs are made in India and we have our logo branded all over them selling them as Bellingham and Smith pads and gloves but we don't make them ?

most consumers dont realize that a bat is not always  made by who it seems they are also have no idea how the cricket industry works which means they would  never decide  or ask the question
 who made the bat they see a bat with sticker and just except that that's the bat maker.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on October 14, 2015, 07:57:50 PM
Did I read the article/blog wrong or are other not reading it correctly? What I got from the post was that IJC don't stock brands that are not honest with them (IJC) about where the bat comes from. GN was a good example used where GN are open abt their bats (majority) not being made in the UK.

I have not purchased some of the other brands mentioned here so don't know what their claims are.
"We also try to only stock the genuine brands and have a personal connection with the bat makers" So what about sf, ca, slazenger, kookaburra, Spartan, new balance, Piri Piri, Mars, phantom, Cp.

Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: CrickFreak on October 14, 2015, 08:00:36 PM
Who cares who made it as long as it plays well. I have used bats wich I knew who made them and also from other big brands and have no reason to say I wont go back to the big brand.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 14, 2015, 08:39:30 PM
"We also try to only stock the genuine brands and have a personal connection with the bat makers" So what about sf, ca, slazenger, kookaburra, Spartan, new balance, Piri Piri, Mars, phantom, Cp.

Or am I missing something?

PiriPiri, Mars, Spartan and CP are all being dropped for next season. And likely Slazenger - for that exact reason! Phantom are open about not making their own bats - just the same as say GN! However, they still offer better prices than many out there, and continue to churn out an excellent product, with outstanding branding - which sell very well, to very happy customers! As for the others, we let customers know that NB etc make their bats in India, we are not opaque with our clients, quite the opposite!

 All we are saying is that IJC is a different brand to many other cricket retailers. We are open with the customer, and don't just want your money! We want the best product, aftercare, and experience, right from willow growing up to scoring the first runs with the bat. And that is why we do what we do - we love it, and want our consumers to experience that passion, a key reason that Paul writes these blogs.

We have taken a stand and backed our words with actions. IJC is not just a shop - it is a philosophy about how we do things. That's why we dropped certain brands (those in the know will know) who misled customers about the provenance of their bat, that's why when you enquire about a bat we will often suggest one cheaper than your budget, that's why we do the videos, that's why we do the blogs, why we do the handpicking, why I've been at the shop until 2am many times, and slept on the floor more than once before! We have a true love for our business, and that's the philosophy that drives everything we do!

Chris
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 14, 2015, 08:50:35 PM
Are there any brands you woodstock still if they had been more honest?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 14, 2015, 08:56:22 PM
Possible we woodstock other brands if they were more honest yes :-)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: bostoncricketer on October 14, 2015, 09:23:43 PM
Any new brands coming in to replace the ones going out?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 14, 2015, 09:27:11 PM
A welcome return to the range by Salix and HitsHard, and possibly another English brand who make their own bats. Again, proving that we live by this philosophy!

Chris
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 14, 2015, 09:27:51 PM
PiriPiri, Mars, Spartan and CP are all being dropped for next season. And likely Slazenger - for that exact reason! Phantom are open about not making their own bats - just the same as say GN! However, they still offer better prices than many out there, and continue to churn out an excellent product, with outstanding branding - which sell very well, to very happy customers! As for the others, we let customers know that NB etc make their bats in India, we are not opaque with our clients, quite the opposite!

 All we are saying is that IJC is a different brand to many other cricket retailers. We are open with the customer, and don't just want your money! We want the best product, aftercare, and experience, right from willow growing up to scoring the first runs with the bat. And that is why we do what we do - we love it, and want our consumers to experience that passion, a key reason that Paul writes these blogs.

We have taken a stand and backed our words with actions. IJC is not just a shop - it is a philosophy about how we do things. That's why we dropped certain brands (those in the know will know) who misled customers about the provenance of their bat, that's why when you enquire about a bat we will often suggest one cheaper than your budget, that's why we do the videos, that's why we do the blogs, why we do the handpicking, why I've been at the shop until 2am many times, and slept on the floor more than once before! We have a true love for our business, and that's the philosophy that drives everything we do!

Chris
Well said Chris  IJC open honest policy and the refusal to sell brands which misled customers is refreshing and the  right way to go.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: FattusCattus on October 14, 2015, 09:54:43 PM
Ooooh! Get Hits Hard back in, they are very sexy and the softs (knuckles apart) are pretty much the best ones I've ever used!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: suraj1108 on October 15, 2015, 02:41:47 AM
call me a tubelight but had to read the blog twice to actually understand what you're trying to say here..
kudo's to you & do understand what you're trying to convey the message across...

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Bat and Ball Cricket on October 15, 2015, 04:18:28 AM
PiriPiri, Mars, Spartan and CP are all being dropped for next season. And likely Slazenger - for that exact reason! Phantom are open about not making their own bats - just the same as say GN! However, they still offer better prices than many out there, and continue to churn out an excellent product, with outstanding branding - which sell very well, to very happy customers! As for the others, we let customers know that NB etc make their bats in India, we are not opaque with our clients, quite the opposite!

 All we are saying is that IJC is a different brand to many other cricket retailers. We are open with the customer, and don't just want your money! We want the best product, aftercare, and experience, right from willow growing up to scoring the first runs with the bat. And that is why we do what we do - we love it, and want our consumers to experience that passion, a key reason that Paul writes these blogs.

We have taken a stand and backed our words with actions. IJC is not just a shop - it is a philosophy about how we do things. That's why we dropped certain brands (those in the know will know) who misled customers about the provenance of their bat, that's why when you enquire about a bat we will often suggest one cheaper than your budget, that's why we do the videos, that's why we do the blogs, why we do the handpicking, why I've been at the shop until 2am many times, and slept on the floor more than once before! We have a true love for our business, and that's the philosophy that drives everything we do!

Chris

Paul, Chris,

Interesting read and i think you raise a number of good points.

Cutting this a slightly different way, here in Australia the bat market is limited to the big brands (GN, Kooka etc) with the bulk of their bats being Indian made (GN have a range made by Stuart Kranzbuhler). There are a few local guys, but its very difficult for these guys to do enough business to specialise full time.

Manufacturing and retailing
I liked your reference to white labelling. You'll find there aren't may 'sales/retail' companies that do their own manufacturing. Companies are generally manufacturers, or wholesalers or retailers. Not all of them. Structuring their operations this way allows them to specialise, keeping costs downs. Yet, when it comes to cricket bats, we expect a beginning to end process.

In reality, your Nike Free Runs that are 'made in Vietnam' aren't made in a factory owned by Nike by Nike employees. Nike raise a tender to which a company responds and fills the order.
This is essentially how many cricket bats come to existence. GN have their order for x thousand mid quality bats and a company in india fill the order.

Perception of what your buying
If you go to see a heart surgeon, paying top dollar for him personally to do you by-pass, would you be pi$$ off if he passes it off to his registrar? Dam right you would.
Your by-pass may work/go just as well, but you've paid for 30+ years of experience and only got the 10+ years job.

Point of difference
IJC market themselves as a unique cricketing business. They don't sell cr@p sticks just to make a buck. They are cricket tragic's who care just as much about the game as what they do about their bottom line.
They want to genuinely know the producers of their products to be able to be very honest with their customers.
I work in business consulting and contract management. If a supplier lies to me, I kick their a$$ to the kerb.

My 2 cents worth
My personal view here is what Paul's original post came back to was honesty.
If you're bats aren't "Made in the UK" don't be a f*$&ing cheat and market them this way.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ScottParko on October 15, 2015, 07:02:32 AM
Good read and more importantly a refreshing read! What I took out of that (seeing as there's different views on it) was that although IJC dont particularly like the stickering up thing they know it happens and aren't completely opposed to it, but they are completely opposed to misleading customers, which is why they still stock certain manufactures who outsource bats, but are completely up front about that, because at least they aren't misleading the customer, which is where IJC's gripe lies.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tim2000s on October 15, 2015, 07:21:25 AM

Manufacturing and retailing
I liked your reference to white labelling. You'll find there aren't may 'sales/retail' companies that do their own manufacturing. Companies are generally manufacturers, or wholesalers or retailers. Not all of them. Structuring their operations this way allows them to specialise, keeping costs downs. Yet, when it comes to cricket bats, we expect a beginning to end process.

In reality, your Nike Free Runs that are 'made in Vietnam' aren't made in a factory owned by Nike by Nike employees. Nike raise a tender to which a company responds and fills the order.
This is essentially how many cricket bats come to existence. GN have their order for x thousand mid quality bats and a company in india fill the order.



If I remember correctly, the factory in India that makes GN bats is actually a wholly owned subsidiary/Indian "affiliate" of GN, rather than one of the many cricket bat production facilities that are out there, tendering for business.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Parkman on October 15, 2015, 07:23:47 AM
This is a great article & is a fantastic stand on brand honesty. It's the same in many industries where if you do some digging you can see who is being 'economical with the truth' about their product. I have started a small venture (cricket related but not equipment) & am sourcing UK made products & services because it's something I believe in. It takes a bit longer to research it & costs a bit more but I feel proud that I'm sticking to a principle not just going for convenience & price.
I don't begrudge people starting their own business because it's their passion & they might not have the skills to make bats themselves but they should be open about the source of that product. Many of these bat 'brands' could surely be done under the trade description act for their 'Made in England' tag   
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tim2000s on October 15, 2015, 07:28:14 AM
Will you be stocking Heritage Bats Paul/Chris?

http://www.heritagecricket.co.uk/ (http://www.heritagecricket.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2015, 07:29:25 AM
Do you think many of these brands are outright lying, or just spinning their circumstance for the benefit of marketing?

Again, saying a Newbery Platinum bat is handmade in England by Newbery's master batmakers could also be conceived as a reasonable bit of spin. It's not lying, but Newbery outsource their work and the company they do outsource to use one of the most advanced CNC machines in the UK.

For me it depends on the company and the relationship. There are companies who stick their stickers on the bats of an Asian manufacturer with no input into the design, shape or bats full stop. At times I question what they add to the industry, but generally speaking the customers see through this and they remain bedroom brands and don't expand much beyond that. Companies like Kookaburra, Adidas or New Balance genuinely do believe in the quality of their products as it reflects on the whole brand. So whilst their batmaker may not be sat in the German, Australian or American office; they do have a close business relationship.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ogroupleader on October 15, 2015, 07:51:07 AM
If I remember correctly, the factory in India that makes GN bats is actually a wholly owned subsidiary/Indian "affiliate" of GN, rather than one of the many cricket bat production facilities that are out there, tendering for business.
From speaking to the local GN rep in Australia and one of the higher ups from their head office in Melbourne that was my understanding as well.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tim2000s on October 15, 2015, 07:57:27 AM
The other thing about the blog for me is the contention that whitelabelling has no place in the world of high end cricket bats. I'd argue that this is simply par for the course. There are plenty of Luxury Consumer goods brands where the same thing goes on and there are no arguments.

As an example, Vertu mobile phones are not made by Vertu. Vertu don't pretend they are, or that they aren't. They are extremely premium products (some might call them trashy).

In my view there's nothing wrong with Whitelabelling a premium product, but obfuscating the origin of the product and pretending that it is made somewhere when it isn't is not okay.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: trypewriter on October 15, 2015, 08:06:26 AM
I don't have a problem with the blog. I think its main thrust is about being economical with the truth.
It happens with a lot of consumer goods. Not all AEG, Bosch and Blomberg appliances are made in Germany these days, but they don't trumpet the fact that you might not be buying 'German reliability' if you don't pick the right model.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Northern monkey on October 15, 2015, 08:47:06 AM
Do people really care where the bat is actually manufactured?
Or are they more concerned with the end products quality?
Do people care where Asads Uzi pros come from? Or are they more bothered with the fact Asad has used his considerable experience to ensure a top class product ?

I'm sure the same applies to ijc,s platinum bat etc
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 15, 2015, 08:47:24 AM
Not wishing to detract from this topic but I am now thinking how many UK cricket brands  source clefts and actually make Bats from start to finish inc handles i know of 2 possibly 3.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 08:51:34 AM
Good read and more importantly a refreshing read! What I took out of that (seeing as there's different views on it) was that although IJC dont particularly like the stickering up thing they know it happens and aren't completely opposed to it, but they are completely opposed to misleading customers, which is why they still stock certain manufactures who outsource bats, but are completely up front about that, because at least they aren't misleading the customer, which is where IJC's gripe lies.

Nice to see that someone has understood it perfectly! I am sorry that others did not get it, but this hits the nail on the head.  Perhaps the below paragraph was missed by some?

"As a specialist retailer, we are not only fussy about the particular bats we stock – handpicking every single one of them ourselves – but we also do our best to filter out the dishonest brands from our shelves and steer clear of them. We don’t always get it right, unfortunately.  Sometimes it takes us some time to learn.  We are also being lied to..."

Fill in the blanks, but some of the brands mentioned previously in this post are being referred to here, and is a major reason why we either stopped stocking them previously or have now decided that enough is enough.  Seeing the Salix and Chase stuff at the trade show a couple of weeks ago really hammered this home for me, and hence why I also mentioned that.

Paul
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 15, 2015, 08:53:41 AM
Not wishing to detract from this topic but I am now thinking how many UK cricket brands  source clefts and actually make Bats from start to finish inc handles i know of 2 possibly 3.

GM, b3 and kippax being the obvious ones.

H4l known by us forumites

Redink have handled and pressed clefts I've supplied, so are certainly capable.
Aldred has shown videos of him handling and pressing bats.


I'm sure there more.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 15, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
I cant think of any that make there own handles as not cost effective.

Having been to a fair few makers around the country on visits I don't see what the stigma is over someone making from start to finish as loads use something whether it be a copy lathe or cnc but I do agree honesty is key as I have been to a couple whos press or equipment were in the "other" shop or being sent to them later.

its all about if you are happy with the end product
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 08:58:14 AM
GM, b3 and kippax being the obvious ones.

H4l known by us forumites

Redink have handled and pressed clefts I've supplied, so are certainly capable.
Aldred has shown videos of him handling and pressing bats.


I'm sure there more.

Salix and Chase! Robert Pack.  There are others.  As I said, I reckon there to be 12 or 13, but I haven't visited them all, and two or three of this number are included based purely on my feedback from a number of customers over the years.  Bottom line is it's a small percentage of the English cricket bat market.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 09:01:10 AM
Another thing I'd like to point out is that I consider CNC machine usage as genuine manufacturing.  The word "handmade" perhaps isn't the best choice for such bats, but anyone who makes entirely in this country - with a CNC machine or otherwise - is included for me.

Handles, as far as I'm aware, is the one thing that is always bought in from elsewhere, but the splicing is something not every "bat maker" will do.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Andythomo21 on October 15, 2015, 09:03:00 AM
I cant think of any that make there own handles as not cost effective.

Having been to a fair few makers around the country on visits I don't see what the stigma is over someone making from start to finish as loads use something whether it be a copy lathe or cnc but I do agree honesty is key as I have been to a couple whos press or equipment were in the "other" shop or being sent to them later.

its all about if you are happy with the end product

Kippax are using the 'Wavex' handles.  I have no idea who makes these though?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 15, 2015, 09:05:33 AM
Salix and Chase! Robert Pack.  There are others.  As I said, I reckon there to be 12 or 13, but I haven't visited them all, and two or three of this number are included based purely on my feedback from a number of customers over the years.  Bottom line is it's a small percentage of the English cricket bat market.


The ones I mentioned are ones I have either witnessed first hand. Or have seen evidence off.

Salix chase and rob pack I haven't so can't comment.


My reply was going on people fitting handles, if seniorplayer is referring to people that actually make there handles, then I could be well wrong.
But if we are gonna get pedantic and claim people aren't true batmakers as they buy handles in, then we are going to far.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: uknsaunders on October 15, 2015, 09:08:21 AM
More a business point than any comment on the topic. What bothers me is if IJC couldn't get hold of any brands that were open and honest about the source of their bats, would they refuse to stock any bats? Very unlikely I know but you still have a business to run. What if brand x gave you an 80% firesale discount and a chance to double your money while shifting loads of stock? My issue is not the statement itself, which you hope would bring it's own rewards, but the implications of such a statement for any business. Effectively forcing you to adopt one model of operating that may not be sustainable in 2/3 years time.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 09:08:33 AM

The ones I mentioned are ones I have either witnessed first hand. Or have seen evidence off.

Salix chase and rob pack I haven't so can't comment.


My reply was going on people fitting handles, if seniorplayer is referring to people that actually make there handles, then I could be well wrong.
But if we are gonna get pedantic and claim people aren't true batmakers as they buy handles in, then we are going to far.

completely agree about the handles.

You are missing out not having been to Salix.  Possibly the most impressive setup we have ever been to...
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 09:09:46 AM
More a business point than any comment on the topic. What bothers me is if IJC couldn't get hold of any brands that were open and honest about the source of their bats, would they refuse to stock any bats? Very unlikely I know but you still have a business to run. What if brand x gave you an 80% firesale discount and a chance to double your money while shifting loads of stock? My issue is not the statement itself, which you hope would bring it's own rewards, but the implications of such a statement for any business. Effectively forcing you to adopt one model of operating that may not be sustainable in 2/3 years time.

Maybe, but if it's not sustainable I will probably prefer to sell the business and move on.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 15, 2015, 09:11:03 AM
Do you class having the ability to make from a raw cleft a batmaker r one that does this all the time?

As a couple of brands use copy lathe or cnc prepared bats then finish them off as it is way more cost and time effective but no less a batmaker
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Chad on October 15, 2015, 09:11:47 AM
GM, b3 and kippax being the obvious ones.

H4l known by us forumites

Redink have handled and pressed clefts I've supplied, so are certainly capable.
Aldred has shown videos of him handling and pressing bats.


I'm sure there more.

I think he means actually make the handles themselves rather than importing! Chase and Charlie French come to mind, but I'm not sure if I'm just imagining things. Not that importing handles is bad, it does take a fair bit of work and time, so sourcing them from elsewhere is pretty standard, the correct manufacturers make excellent handles, I think Procricket said that he's found Ransons to do the best.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: KettonJake on October 15, 2015, 11:12:03 AM
Virtually everything IJC has said is exactly what GM are, yet IJC refuse to stock GM? They are honest, open, any member of the public can ask to go and visit the facility and see everything they do first hand. The bats are entirely made in Nottingham, the only sticking point seems to be this obsession with handpicking?

That's why we dropped certain brands (those in the know will know) who misled customers about the provenance of their bat,


[url]http://newbery.co.uk/pages/about-newbery[/url] ([url]http://newbery.co.uk/pages/about-newbery[/url])

Don't Newbery outsource some of their bat making?
And doesn't TK have a CNC machine?  ;)


Some extracts from the about us page on the Newbery website:

''At Newbery we can trace our bat making heritage back to 1919 when the Newbery family first made handmade cricket bats in the picturesque surroundings of East Sussex, England.

Our unique skills have been handed down through generation from John Newbery and we have an expert history that we still apply today to produce the highest quality custom cricket bats and cricket supplies.

In a space dominated by mass machine produced hardware Newbery is a bastion of British craftsmanship committed to keeping these values alive and kicking. The philosophy of Newbery remains the same now as it did in 1919: Quality, aesthetic and performance.''

''When crafting the bat each individual cleft (block of Willow) is selected, assessed and hand crafted with traditional tools.''

The video itself at the top of the about us page shows a bat being crafted in a very traditional manner. There is not even a cameo appearance from Tim's CNC machine.

It has been asked (and seemingly ignored) already by a couple of people, but why is Newbery treated differently to the brands you have dropped? Moreover, as suggested by Tom, why is the Platinum bat being marketed in the exact way you have said you feel is wrong?

To clear a few things up. Whilst of course there is a close and historic relationship between the Keeleys and Newbery, it is now a straightforward fact that Newbery do not make any bats themselves. They contract out the work and make very good use of Tim's CNC machine. IJC's stance that they won't stock brands who mislead customers doesn't really stack up given the claims about traditional techniques made on Newberys website. This is not me poo-pooing the CNC process at all, Tim is one of the finest bat makers out there, if not the best. Much of his skill and fine detailed work on a bat cannot be replicated by a CNC machine. He still puts plenty of handcrafted time into his bats, just not as much as the batmakers in 1919 did as suggested by Newbery, indeed they seemingly go a step further by referring to mass machine production in a negative manner...

As a quick aside, it is widely known that Tim doesn't make junior bats, Newberys junior bats (i suspect) are imported, I don't know where from but a while ago i think it was from Bellingham Smith in SA. Is this something IJC customers are made aware of?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 15, 2015, 11:20:30 AM
@InsideInfo

Second time you've had a pop at ijc regarding there issues with GM??

Do you work for GM?


You've already stated you work within the industry, so time to man up and tell us who you are, otherwise how can your comment be valid?? They could be hugely onesided.

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Beachcricket on October 15, 2015, 11:20:50 AM
If the craft of bat making is dying and it's difficult to earn a living making cricket bats then...

What is the purpose in supporting a middle man?

I've heard the argument that they can produce shapes and profiles unique to them, but essentially the skill of the bat maker realises that and often they're not reinventing the wheel. The bat maker still has to use their skills and knowledge.

In 2012, I received a message via Facebook from a bat maker who essentially questioned me and my bat making simply asking "Are you for real???", "How many bats have you made?" and "Are you a recognised Pod Shaver?". Once I'd explained I'd been teaching myself for 15+ years, didn't refer to myself as a Pod Shaver or Bat Maker (and still to this day don't like the term bat maker) and that if I'd offended him with something I'd written then I was sorry.

In truth I should have been offended and I was certainly confused. I felt I'd been personally attacked for having passion for skill that I felt wasn't being celebrated and still don't think it is. I've always wished to conduct myself with respect for other bat makers and those who've come before me by not making claims I can't back up. In truth, I've gone the other way and not been confident because I've felt I hadn't earned my stripes.

Compare this to the brands that don't make their bats, brands that B******t about how their bats are master crafted by "our bat maker", traditional, full of heritage, passion etc etc etc...

I could get irate about them, I could be angry about the fact that they dilute that which I've worked hard to earn. That they make claims I would never dream of making and that I don't email them to question their work.

This is the industry. It's full of cloak and dagger, smoke and mirrors and BS. It's over saturated with brand and not bat makers. Manufacturing is thriving yet the craft is struggling to maintain a foothold partly due to the prevalence and ease of with which a brand can exist. The traditional skills of Pod Shaving aren't being passed on in the way were some years ago, so inevitably it's declining. We can't really complain about branding, outsourcing and mass production if we don't support those carrying on the craft.

I can understand how many within the industry have become jaded to newcomers and how the bat maker I mentioned earlier, could email me to question my work and the veracity of my words. It doesn't make it acceptable though and should I meet him it will come up in conversation.

This is an industry where Julian Millichamp can retire without any public acknowledgment or celebration. One where someone as talented as Tim Keeley is an ethereal figure and one where the label is more important than the skills and knowledge that facilitate the ACTUAL quality of a cricket bat... and people think this is bad!!! This is without doubt the tip of the iceberg.

I get emails from people wishing to get in bat making, hopefully helping them to avoid the mistakes I've made. The one thing I never do is discourage them from learning but I'm always honest about the industry as I know it. Perhaps my perception is skewed slightly but when I get unpleasant emails and deception propagates and prospers, what can I think?

Paul has done the right thing to start cleaning up the BS. But there's so much that he can't do it on his own as I've realised. Despite having a lot to say on bat making I haven't, partially worried I would offend someone else and further ostracise myself from an insular industry. For 2 years I've been writing a piece about relabelling and rebranding and struggling to construct my view having changed my opinion so many times. Whilst I don't agree with everything Paul has said, I agree in principal.

I'd like to thank Paul and the responses here. You've solidified my view of it all and will now I can get around to finishing that piece.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: KettonJake on October 15, 2015, 11:29:21 AM
@InsideInfo

Second time you've had a pop at ijc regarding there issues with GM??

Do you work for GM?


You've already stated you work within the industry, so time to man up and tell us who you are, otherwise how can your comment be valid?? They could be hugely onesided.

Don't think i've posted since this time last year, although i have followed, mainly to keep track of the ongoing helmet discussions. Anyway, last year i gave (in my opinion) a fairly balanced view on GM but also why their Sigma/Zona ranges aren't the best of ideas. I am not involved at GM, I'm sure Ed Lowy would know if i worked for him :)

It wasn't meant as a pop, just a genuine question about why GM is a brand IJC refuse to stock considering they meet all the criteria regarding openness, honesty, making their own bats etc, IJC and GM seem a much better fit than Newbery and IJC. I perhaps then went a little too into detail regarding exactly how Newbery operate, but i'll be honest, i've never read their about us page before and it took me by surprise a little!

I've thought of another one, will New Balance be handpicked? To my knowledge they aren't set up for this? (again just a genuine question not a hand grenade)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: FattusCattus on October 15, 2015, 11:35:38 AM
This is an industry where Julian Millichamp can retire without any public acknowledgment or celebration. One where someone as talented as Tim Keeley is an ethereal figure

Tim is an ethereal figure by choice, he has withdrawn from the public eye and contact wherever he can - and to a degree I don't blame him, as had all sorts of people trying to visit him, do deals, wangle freebies etc.

However, the fact is that it is he who has made himself less accessible - not the industry, and that's perfectly understandable.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 15, 2015, 11:37:28 AM
Wasn't being pedantic Chris  just thought it would be good to know  who makes  bats from start to finish   as I have only witnessed one company that does so which was none of the already mentioned.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 15, 2015, 11:42:48 AM
Wasn't being pedantic Chris  just thought it would be good to know  who makes  bats from start to finish   as I have only witnessed one company that does so which was none of the already mentioned.

Nixon made his own handles, although I'm not sure he makes anything at mo(again could be wrong I don't really see many or here off him anymore)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Beachcricket on October 15, 2015, 11:47:45 AM
Tim is an ethereal figure by choice, he has withdrawn from the public eye and contact wherever he can - and to a degree I don't blame him, as had all sorts of people trying to visit him, do deals, wangle freebies etc.

However, the fact is that it is he who has made himself less accessible - not the industry, and that's perfectly understandable.

I meant in the sense that he's not celebrated for the talent and skill he's worked hard for. I completely agree that he's chosen to withdraw from the public eye for reasons of his own which should be respected. I was merely saying that the bat makers are often no showcased or highlighted for their talents. I've found this constructs that brand is more important than the skill that created the quality that then carries the brand.

Perhaps I didn't explain that I feel that bat making should have it's own identity as a craft or skill that then doesn't rely on a brand having to market it. There should be some way of making the craft of bat making as important considering it facilitates the existence of any brand.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: rickjames on October 15, 2015, 11:48:18 AM
I've thought of another one, will New Balance be handpicked? To my knowledge they aren't set up for this? (again just a genuine question not a hand grenade)

Having spoken to Paul over email he confirmed they don't get to handpick.

As a returner to the game with little/no knowledge etc it's a pretty insightful article and I look all the more forward to going to IJC over the winter and picking up my first bat, wherever it's made
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: liscon12 on October 15, 2015, 11:55:33 AM
So from this point onwards we can assume IJC is only going to sell bats which meet the ethos they are trying to promote and deal with brands that help the fellow bat maker, but my question is what made you [IJC] decide to sell brands such as CP, Spartan in the first place?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: simonmay5 on October 15, 2015, 12:06:31 PM
I am surprised to see he won't stock spartan as they have a big warehouse in Kent so can hand pick his bats and I sure he knows where abouts they are made
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:18:02 PM
So from this point onwards we can assume IJC is only going to sell bats which meet the ethos they are trying to promote and deal with brands that help the fellow bat maker, but my question is what made you [IJC] decide to sell brands such as CP, Spartan in the first place?

Again, I don't have issues with people like Spartan because they don't claim to make their bats here in the UK.  They don't exactly advertise that they are made in India, but they are still honest about their provenance, unlike some others.  Ditto Kookaburra.  I am sorry this was not made clear already (I thought it had been).
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 15, 2015, 12:20:27 PM
Having spoken to Paul over email he confirmed they don't get to handpick.

So New Balance is not only made in India, but also don't allow handpicking. Yet IJC are planning to stock New Balance, but won't stock GM who's bats are made in the UK.

I've completely lost the point of this thread now.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:21:01 PM
So from this point onwards we can assume IJC is only going to sell bats which meet the ethos they are trying to promote and deal with brands that help the fellow bat maker, but my question is what made you [IJC] decide to sell brands such as CP, Spartan in the first place?

We wanted to offer a variety, as a specialist, and still do to an extent, but over time my feelings have changed a little and I now would prefer to support the genuine bat makers along with a sprinkling of of outsourcers who are honest about their provenance, such as Phantom, GN etc.

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:22:54 PM
So New Balance is not only made in India, but also don't allow handpicking. Yet IJC are planning to stock New Balance, but won't stock GM who's bats are made in the UK.

I've completely lost the point of this thread now.

that's because you are over simplifying it.  Who told you that we are stocking New Balance bats moving forward?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 15, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
that's because you are over simplifying it.  Who told you that we are stocking New Balance bats moving forward?

My apologies - I presume (again jumping to conclusion) you won't be stocking NB in future then?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:27:16 PM
My apologies, I presume you're not stocking NB in future then?

We have made our bed and we will lie in it.  We are honest.

It may cost us quite a few £££ but so be it.  We will have to make do with their shoes and bags instead.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 15, 2015, 12:28:22 PM
It may cost us quite a few £££ but so be it.  We will have to make do with their shoes and bags instead.

Fair enough, at least you're sticking to your guns which is certainly commendable (However questionable from a business sense!!).
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:30:07 PM
Fair enough, at least you're sticking to your guns which is certainly commendable (However questionable from a business sense!!).

but you're right, they aren't a good fit for us!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: rickjames on October 15, 2015, 12:30:26 PM
I should probably defend Paul a little when I emailed about a month ago regarding NB, at that point he did say they were unsure about stocking them in the future...
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: liscon12 on October 15, 2015, 12:32:55 PM
So are you able to give a definitive list of who are and who you aren't going to stock in the future?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:35:32 PM
So are you able to give a definitive list of who are and who you aren't going to stock in the future?

It is a bit in flux atm, but the ones we have advertised we are visiting for one.  And the ones listed on our pre-orders deposit page.  If it's not listed there (NB never was), it means there is still a question mark, but if you are that interested I'd suggest you email us instead.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:51:17 PM
Virtually everything IJC has said is exactly what GM are, yet IJC refuse to stock GM? They are honest, open, any member of the public can ask to go and visit the facility and see everything they do first hand. The bats are entirely made in Nottingham, the only sticking point seems to be this obsession with handpicking?

Some extracts from the about us page on the Newbery website:

''At Newbery we can trace our bat making heritage back to 1919 when the Newbery family first made handmade cricket bats in the picturesque surroundings of East Sussex, England.

Our unique skills have been handed down through generation from John Newbery and we have an expert history that we still apply today to produce the highest quality custom cricket bats and cricket supplies.

In a space dominated by mass machine produced hardware Newbery is a bastion of British craftsmanship committed to keeping these values alive and kicking. The philosophy of Newbery remains the same now as it did in 1919: Quality, aesthetic and performance.''

''When crafting the bat each individual cleft (block of Willow) is selected, assessed and hand crafted with traditional tools.''

The video itself at the top of the about us page shows a bat being crafted in a very traditional manner. There is not even a cameo appearance from Tim's CNC machine.

It has been asked (and seemingly ignored) already by a couple of people, but why is Newbery treated differently to the brands you have dropped? Moreover, as suggested by Tom, why is the Platinum bat being marketed in the exact way you have said you feel is wrong?

To clear a few things up. Whilst of course there is a close and historic relationship between the Keeleys and Newbery, it is now a straightforward fact that Newbery do not make any bats themselves. They contract out the work and make very good use of Tim's CNC machine. IJC's stance that they won't stock brands who mislead customers doesn't really stack up given the claims about traditional techniques made on Newberys website. This is not me poo-pooing the CNC process at all, Tim is one of the finest bat makers out there, if not the best. Much of his skill and fine detailed work on a bat cannot be replicated by a CNC machine. He still puts plenty of handcrafted time into his bats, just not as much as the batmakers in 1919 did as suggested by Newbery, indeed they seemingly go a step further by referring to mass machine production in a negative manner...

As a quick aside, it is widely known that Tim doesn't make junior bats, Newberys junior bats (i suspect) are imported, I don't know where from but a while ago i think it was from Bellingham Smith in SA. Is this something IJC customers are made aware of?

OK, I will address Newbery briefly.  I can see your point.  As I said in an earlier post, the word "handmade" may be the only inconsistency, but as the bat makers still do much of the work by hand, it's close to irrelevant in my opinion.

The Platinum bats are all fully made in England - including the harrow ones.  They will all continue to be made here, including the new Bronze, Silver and Gold bats (assuming that we go ahead with them).  We also designed them from scratch and don't just put the stickers on.  Maybe I am missing something, but I am struggling to see how they are not following our ethos?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: kdale6 on October 15, 2015, 12:52:34 PM
not mentioned so far but don't Warsop do the whole shabang from start to finish, anyone who's been down to their set up will know its a great place - you can watch bats being made right in front of you and the folks there are real friendly
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 12:56:16 PM
not mentioned so far but don't Warsop do the whole shabang from start to finish, anyone who's been down to their set up will know its a great place - you can watch bats being made right in front of you and the folks there are real friendly

I have never visited them, but I think so, and that's why they were one of the companies on my list (of 12 or 13).
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tushar sehgal on October 15, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Paul I am sure there will always be questions and concerns about any approach. From my point of view atleast you are trying and that's worth something, there will always be skeletons in the closet as there is nothing completely black or white in life or work. Good luck, look forward to IJC's offerings for the season.

@Beachcricket welcome back :) its been a long long time.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Percy on October 15, 2015, 01:04:57 PM
Paul - when Vitas announced they were going to stock Salix you said this:

"So, despite being much further away, the Kembers have visited Vitas one more time than they've visited us...
Done well to get them up there, Jake! Hope they go better for you than they did for us.."


My understanding from this is that they didn't sell well for you. What's changed and, whilst I applaud your principles, why would you want to carry stock that didn't sell well?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Cedrictoad on October 15, 2015, 01:07:09 PM
Hats off to IJC, it is refreshing to see someone take a stand on something they believe in.

Honesty from suppliers should be a given... Well done and keep up the crusade! 
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2015, 01:14:30 PM
Maybe I am missing something, but I am struggling to see how they are not following our ethos?
"I don’t have a problem with brands that are open about the provenance of their bats and can admit that they don’t manufacture their own."
This is a direct quote from your blog.

"Designed by It's Just Cricket, handmade by Newbery (in England)."
This is a direct quote from your site

Newbery outsource production, just like New Balance do or Slazenger do.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: kdale6 on October 15, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
I have never visited them, but I think so, and that's why they were one of the companies on my list (of 12 or 13).

Well worth a visit if you can make it - never seen there gear sold anywhere but their own place which is a shame because there softs as well as the bats are class

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2015, 01:23:35 PM
To be clear also, I don't disagree totally with your ethos Paul and admire your principles. As a retailer and the face of these brands for the consumer, you need to choose brands you're happy representing. And I think you have a great wide choice.

I was only questioning why some brands are considered dishonest and others are not, when they are doing similar things. I personally a, not sure honesty in cricket bat making is a totally black and white thing!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Johnny on October 15, 2015, 02:19:11 PM
this escalated quickly!

For the record, Charlie French makes his own handles.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 02:20:10 PM
"I don’t have a problem with brands that are open about the provenance of their bats and can admit that they don’t manufacture their own."
This is a direct quote from your blog.

"Designed by It's Just Cricket, handmade by Newbery (in England)."
This is a direct quote from your site

Newbery outsource production, just like New Balance do or Slazenger do.

there is some history about their bat makers that makes it a bit different to the brands mentioned.  To some extent, you are correct, but I feel NB or Slazenger don't compare well in this instance.  This is a topic we will not address further on this thread though.  I am surprised the topic itself is being examined less than IJC.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 02:34:29 PM
Further to what I just posted in this topic, I have just posted a new topic for discussion, which details what brands we are and what brands we aren't stocking in 2016, and how this ties in with our philosophy. If you wish to discuss or examine IJC, please do so on that thread.

If you wish to comment on the original subject matter, then please, go ahead and do it on here - we're always interested in provoking discussion, as long as it stays on topic!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: The Doctor on October 15, 2015, 03:26:50 PM
OK, I will address Newbery briefly.  I can see your point.  As I said in an earlier post, the word "handmade" may be the only inconsistency, but as the bat makers still do much of the work by hand, it's close to irrelevant in my opinion.

The Platinum bats are all fully made in England - including the harrow ones.  They will all continue to be made here, including the new Bronze, Silver and Gold bats (assuming that we go ahead with them).  We also designed them from scratch and don't just put the stickers on.  Maybe I am missing something, but I am struggling to see how they are not following our ethos?

Whilst this is a great topic, it is very hard for me to comment, I think IJC are trying to develop a USP to differentiate themselves from other retailers / internet sellers.

In my experience people sell “stuff“ and the first thing a successful retailer/brand needs to do is gain the consumers trust, and I think the way the IJC are going about their business is commendable. In this very competitive market some brands (a lot of brands) have to twist the truth to try and gain an advantage over the competition, and I have to say this is one of my pet hates and definitely a room 101 topic for me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with brands buying bats in from other UK makers or India/Pakistan but please be honest about it and don’t put pictures on your website sanding a bat….. The fact that we have spent a considerable amount of money investing in plant & machinery probably taints my viewpoint on this slightly.

Sorry to be pedantic but I don’t think Newbury make their own bats, as I believe TK sold the business 5 or so years ago, so effectively are another white label brand ;-)


Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 15, 2015, 04:58:37 PM
Thanks Doctor! I think we are trying very hard to distinguish ourselves, and like people say, the handpicking element is about creating an identity for IJC, one which we believe in and can make us happy doing our job.

Newbery has been mentioned by a few people here, and is a bit of a difficult one to categorise really. They might not make them per se, but they have complete control over the manufacturing process. They can make bats to any shape (like the Platinums), they can talk to you in detail about the pressing, the shaping, the shoulder scalloping of the blade etc, they can turn bats around instantly, so they pretty much do make them themselves. Not only that, they have been incredibly open and informative with ourselves (IJC), allowing us to build up a relationship and trust with them. So to say all they do is add the stickers, when actually they design the stickers, the shape, assess the pressing, and do countless other things, is a bit of a misnomer. Hence why we went with them for the Platinum - they offered a unique service, they do it well, and they are an honest company. Simple really!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Beachcricket on October 15, 2015, 05:32:57 PM
@Beachcricket welcome back :) its been a long long time.

Silently watching from the boundary. I felt this thread was the right time for a comeback.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Northern monkey on October 15, 2015, 05:39:21 PM
Ahhh whitewillow, loved those blogs
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Beachcricket on October 16, 2015, 09:00:39 AM
Ahhh whitewillow, loved those blogs


Thanks, that's good to hear.

Finally getting back to it, I've certainly been away for a while. Had a lot of things on that were not related to Cricket. White Willow has taken a bit of a hit sadly but I'm coming back strong. Writing the 6000 word Big Edge Myth piece in February before the World Cup took it out of me...

http://www.whitewillowcricket.co.uk/cricket-bats-problem/ (http://www.whitewillowcricket.co.uk/cricket-bats-problem/)

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: OllieWalker39 on October 18, 2015, 11:35:05 AM
Well that escalated quickly! Jesus! Haha!

Not overly bothered by mainstream bats anymore, since being on here (and being convinced by a teammate), I'm now all about the custom made handmade specialists such as Kippax etc. although Kippax have taken a backseat now as they want more than my paltry budget can afford! Totally agree with the philosophy, although very extreme; I think as long as you guys are open and are able to handpick the bats you stock (as some low grade bats look great, yet some top grade bats look rubbish), then best of luck to it! Hope it works out for you!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 18, 2015, 12:16:13 PM
Well that escalated quickly! Jesus! Haha!

Not overly bothered by mainstream bats anymore, since being on here (and being convinced by a teammate), I'm now all about the custom made handmade specialists such as Kippax etc. although Kippax have taken a backseat now as they want more than my paltry budget can afford! Totally agree with the philosophy, although very extreme; I think as long as you guys are open and are able to handpick the bats you stock (as some low grade bats look great, yet some top grade bats look rubbish), then best of luck to it! Hope it works out for you!

Thanks Ollie! I think you've hit the nail on the head. The aim of the game is to get the best value for money for our customers, whether that be in a £100 bat or a £400 bat - the customer has the right to expect the very best of that price point and grade - and that's what we feel we can achieve by this dedication to handpicking!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: skip1973 on October 18, 2015, 01:05:20 PM
Thanks Doctor! I think we are trying very hard to distinguish ourselves, and like people say, the handpicking element is about creating an identity for IJC, one which we believe in and can make us happy doing our job.

Newbery has been mentioned by a few people here, and is a bit of a difficult one to categorise really. They might not make them per se, but they have complete control over the manufacturing process. They can make bats to any shape (like the Platinums), they can talk to you in detail about the pressing, the shaping, the shoulder scalloping of the blade etc, they can turn bats around instantly, so they pretty much do make them themselves. Not only that, they have been incredibly open and informative with ourselves (IJC), allowing us to build up a relationship and trust with them. So to say all they do is add the stickers, when actually they design the stickers, the shape, assess the pressing, and do countless other things, is a bit of a misnomer. Hence why we went with them for the Platinum - they offered a unique service, they do it well, and they are an honest company. Simple really!
With that being said about Newberys openness, can you explain what the special pressing entails on the Kudos 2 and why it adds $$ to the bat?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: iand123 on October 18, 2015, 01:48:29 PM
With that being said about Newberys openness, can you explain what the special pressing entails on the Kudos 2 and why it adds $$ to the bat?

Its been asked before, IJC havent ever really been able to shed much light on it from memoery, although in their defence Newnery dont do it very well themselves so hard to imagine their customers to do a better job!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 18, 2015, 02:45:38 PM
Following this Topic has been intriguing I would say B&S get 5-6 Perfect clefts out of every 25 they buy . If they let all there retailers come and hand pick there Bats and they only pick the good ones who buys the other 20 ?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on October 18, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
Following this Topic has been intriguing I would say B&S get 5-6 Perfect clefts out of every 25 they buy . If they let all there retailers come and hand pick there Bats and they only pick the good ones who buys the other 20 ?

You have just summed up why their hand picking is a good way to go. You then only get the bats you want (although, you can only pick from the selection you see. If someone has been before you or the maker hides some for others then you miss out).

Completely get your point Gary btw, but I can understand why a customer might not want to receive one of those 20
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 18, 2015, 03:03:23 PM
The other 20 are obviously still used they either become very good grade 2 or turn into top junior bats as I sell directly to Public where possible customers come and choose there bats I also travel a lot and vist various clubs on set nights there by letting there members choose from the stock I have . If I only sold to Retailers I would expect them to take a cross section of my stock and not just the lightest and best Fair to all retailers I think
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: iand123 on October 18, 2015, 03:55:19 PM
You have just summed up why their hand picking is a good way to go. You then only get the bats you want (although, you can only pick from the selection you see. If someone has been before you or the maker hides some for others then you miss out).

Completely get your point Gary btw, but I can understand why a customer might not want to receive one of those 20

I agree handpicking is a nice touch but it depends on who is picking the bat. If they couldnt pick a good bat from a plank it isnt an advantage at all. I'm not suggesting anyone on here who does hand pick doesnt know what they are doing but it isnt a foolproof method of getting a good bat
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 18, 2015, 03:56:35 PM
I cant think of any that make there own handles as not cost effective.

Charlie French and Warsop make handles.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 18, 2015, 10:08:53 PM
In reply to B and S -

You perfectly did sum up our point. You admitted that 20 bats which might not be the same brilliant quality would have to be sold, and these would be sold to less fussy shops, therefore admitting that shops who don't handpick are more likely to get bats which aren't quite as good. They may still be very good, but not the same as those 5 or 6. That's why we handpick - to trawl through and select the absolute best ones!

I agree that it depends who selects the bat - if it is an average Joe who doesn't know much about bats then it makes no difference. However, anyone who follows our YouTube channel even half closely will know, without boasting, know a lot about our game, and therefore would back ourselves to pick the best bats available - and our happy customers seem to reflect that. You only have to look at the bats on our shelves, or in our videos, to see what we mean. Think Kookaburra Instinct 300 from this year, or Gray Nics Nemesis 4 star, off the top of my head.

Finally, as regards Newbery, I can't spread too much light on that. Without meaning to duck the question, we want to be open and honest, but there are limits to what we are allowed to spread!

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Bambooman on October 19, 2015, 10:16:41 AM
Charlie French and Warsop make handles.
So do I, but only for the love (although can be a pain sometimes).
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: iand123 on October 19, 2015, 10:47:21 AM
In reply to B and S -

I agree that it depends who selects the bat - if it is an average Joe who doesn't know much about bats then it makes no difference. However, anyone who follows our YouTube channel even half closely will know, without boasting, know a lot about our game, and therefore would back ourselves to pick the best bats available - and our happy customers seem to reflect that. You only have to look at the bats on our shelves, or in our videos, to see what we mean. Think Kookaburra Instinct 300 from this year, or Gray Nics Nemesis 4 star, off the top of my head.

This might not possibly work as you might not want to tell people yur technique/secrets but perhaps your next post could be about how to hand select a good bat
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 19, 2015, 12:31:04 PM
That sounds like a very good idea - watch this space!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 20, 2015, 01:02:51 PM
For a little bit of evidence about our hand picking, check out our latest post relating to our new SF and CA bats! Absolute beauties!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Number4 on October 21, 2015, 05:49:06 AM
Is there a ping guarantee?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 11:37:13 AM
Is there a ping guarantee?

Ha, actually yes! At least a guarantee that we think they ping well.  I admit this is no guarantee that you will agree, but usually our customers do.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Number4 on October 21, 2015, 11:58:17 AM
A legitimate question I thought. If all bats are handpicked then surely they would/could come with a pingability guarantee.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 12:30:56 PM
A legitimate question I thought. If all bats are handpicked then surely they would/could come with a pingability guarantee.

I agree and effectively they do.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 21, 2015, 12:45:46 PM
I try not to drawn into this kind of debate, but: doesn't this assume that a bat that pings best from new, pings best over time?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 01:09:33 PM
I try not to drawn into this kind of debate, but: doesn't this assume that a bat that pings best from new, pings best over time?

Admittedly, and obviously, you can never get a feel for how a bat might be once it has opened up, or how it will play in 2 years time, but we feel also judge bats based on how soft or hard they are as well. I.e - if the bats ping the same, but one is slightly harder, we would probably pick that one because it is more likely to reach a higher level of ping at some stage in its life than the soft one, whereby the current level of ping might be the absolute maximum it will ever achieve. Hopefully that makes sense!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 21, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
I agree and effectively they do.

So if the bat doesn't 'ping' well enough that would be legitimate reason for a refund? What if it had been already used?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: trypewriter on October 21, 2015, 01:21:34 PM
I try not to drawn into this kind of debate, but: doesn't this assume that a bat that pings best from new, pings best over time?

Not to mention, pings best for someone you lend it to!  :(
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 21, 2015, 01:25:06 PM
Admittedly, and obviously, you can never get a feel for how a bat might be once it has opened up, or how it will play in 2 years time, but we feel also judge bats based on how soft or hard they are as well. I.e - if the bats ping the same, but one is slightly harder, we would probably pick that one because it is more likely to reach a higher level of ping at some stage in its life than the soft one, whereby the current level of ping might be the absolute maximum it will ever achieve. Hopefully that makes sense!


Not really. Did you read the 'pro-pressing" thread started by The Doctor?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 03:56:09 PM
That was a generic example - not one we always stick to religiously!

With regards to a ping guarantee - Our handpicking service is designed to stop these sort of returns being necessary. We would hate to be in a position where a customer has used the bat, and so cannot return it, but still isn't happy with the ping - that's why we hand pick it! If you get it from another shop, you use it, it has poor ping, you're stuffed because it cannot be returned. This is just another advantage of buying from us - the ping is there because they've been handpicked on performance, and so this isn't something you need to worry about when shopping with IJC!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: The Doctor on October 21, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
That was a generic example - not one we always stick to religiously!

With regards to a ping guarantee - Our handpicking service is designed to stop these sort of returns being necessary. We would hate to be in a position where a customer has used the bat, and so cannot return it, but still isn't happy with the ping - that's why we hand pick it! If you get it from another shop, you use it, it has poor ping, you're stuffed because it cannot be returned. This is just another advantage of buying from us - the ping is there because they've been handpicked on performance, and so this isn't something you need to worry about when shopping with IJC!

Interested to know how you hand pick on performacne.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: The Doctor on October 21, 2015, 04:07:25 PM


Not really. Did you read the 'pro-pressing" thread started by The Doctor?

I'll take that as a no!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 04:09:22 PM
I read it completely - and we respect your expertise, hence why we didn't comment on the post!

We hand pick on performance based on chats with the bat makers whilst we are there, based on pinging a ball off them in the warehouses etc, based on rebound potential with a mallet - up and down the middle, and all over the blade!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Gurujames on October 21, 2015, 04:33:15 PM
I think what you do shows excellent customer service. If you went to a bog standard retailer you would have a small selection of bats to chose from. You would not be able to knock them up either. Let's face it, if you were allowed to give them a bash you would chose the one you felt had the largest and best responding sweet spot. Buying from a shop like yours means you have gone through that for us.
Yes, maybe some bats may perform better in 2 seasons time but you cannot see into the future.
At the end of the day I know where I will get my Warbird from.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 21, 2015, 04:48:44 PM
Thank you - that sort of feedback is why we do what we do! Made me smile!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: skip1973 on October 21, 2015, 09:58:45 PM
I'm a bit surprised you don't get more resistance from manufacturers, you're essentially saying you take the pick of their stock and other retailers get left overs that could be inferior. I would have thought more would take GM's stance of having faith in all their products.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 21, 2015, 10:30:44 PM
That was a generic example - not one we always stick to religiously!

With regards to a ping guarantee - Our handpicking service is designed to stop these sort of returns being necessary. We would hate to be in a position where a customer has used the bat, and so cannot return it, but still isn't happy with the ping - that's why we hand pick it! If you get it from another shop, you use it, it has poor ping, you're stuffed because it cannot be returned. This is just another advantage of buying from us - the ping is there because they've been handpicked on performance, and so this isn't something you need to worry about when shopping with IJC!

Quite a sweeping statement.....

Other shops handpick bats too remember, maybe not 100% of their stock but that doesn't mean IJC is the only shop who handpicks as this statement implies
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Uzi Sports on October 21, 2015, 11:49:58 PM
Quite a sweeping statement.....

Other shops handpick bats too remember, maybe not 100% of their stock but hat doesn't mean IJC is the only one shop who handpicks as this statement implies

For me the hand picking gives confidence to a retailer what they sell to their customers. I remember in my playing days, i used to buy bats from Late John Fordham and if i am not mistaken he was the first one who used to visit most of the suppliers to hand pick bats. When we started in 2005, i followed John and  started hand picking our stock.  I believe you have to have a good knowledge of what you are looking for when selecting a bat and for that reason,  method of handing picking will be different across retailers.
I believe quite a few retailers on this forum  hand pick their stock but it is quite difficult to say that one's hand picking is better than the other and as i said above, it will probably depend on knowledge and experience of the person who is hand picking.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: sanredrose on October 22, 2015, 12:03:47 AM
I'm a bit surprised you don't get more resistance from manufacturers, you're essentially saying you take the pick of their stock and other retailers get left overs that could be inferior. I would have thought more would take GM's stance of having faith in all their products.

GM is a pretty big manufacturer and they can afford to take a stance. However smaller bat makers (when compared with GM) like H4L and various other forum sponsors will need to provide more incentives for retailers to stock their bat. One of the incentive is to allow hand-picking the bat which in my opinion is also a good will gesture from the manufacturer.

Lets say IJC hand picks 10 bats from H4L. They are essentially picking from what H4L has in stock at that time. About 15 days later Vitas walks in and they could probably end up looking at a completely new H4L stock and pick whats best out of that. All i am trying to say is that retailers are picking bats from a relatively smaller sample size and the current availability at the manufacturer's distribution center or warehouse. It doesn't mean they have taken the top pingers and left the inferior one for others.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: lazza32 on October 22, 2015, 12:24:26 AM
How can buying a hand picked bat possibly have any negatives. I have never bought a bat without mallet or ball testing and hence this is the reason I buy from IJC. We can't get some of the brands here in oz so I have to rely either on a standard retailer sending me there untested stock or IJC, either way there still is a trust issue but the fact that IJC put themselves out there to be scrutinised by being on you tube, forums, twitter etc. makes me trust them more. I have also bought bats from UZI for that very reason also but another reason I bought bats from UZI which IJC could possibly learhn from is the fact that the bat they picture is the bat ill receive. No deception.
I would like to thank both UZI and IJC for providing brilliant, honest products and service. Ill be back for more
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tushar sehgal on October 22, 2015, 12:38:29 PM
I know IJC has taken some heat on this thread, which surprises me, but also some good questions were asked. To me IJC, and Vitas & Uzi, are already doing a lot more for their customers than most other retailers out there.

New bats are made in the thousands every day, to be somewhere to pick on one or two days out of the year doesn't mean rest of the bats are crap. As for hand picking technique, I look for a few things in bats that I own/want but cnosidering the number of bats I have owned in my life is probably still less that what you guys, retailers, see in a day there is are better odds of you knowing what to pick and what not to pick compared to me. Now retailer 1 might be somehow better at looking for a few things than retailer 2 but both should, logically, be better than a regular customer at picking a decent bat if not a great bat.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 22, 2015, 01:02:54 PM
Lanza32 I think you will find most sponsors on here will send you a bat that will meet with your approval and if they have provided you with a photo before hand then that is the bat you will get. As B&S only supply one retailer my arrangement with them is that they take a cross section of my stock not just the best that's just the way it is
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
But B&S, you've just admitted that you give your retailer some inferior stock (a cross-section), and that customers can go direct to you to hand-pick one (through photos, specs etc etc), so why would a customer go to the retailer? Whereas, we can guarantee to get the best available product from the manufacturer, so where is the downside?

That brings me on to perhaps the most important question. I'm still failing to see why IJC has taken the heat on this post, for trying to be honest about the state of the cricket industry. There is one question which no one has actually answered.

What are the negatives of IJC taking time and care to hand pick the best possible bats for our customers? How in any way can this be a bad thing for the customer?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on October 22, 2015, 02:26:04 PM
But B&S, you've just admitted that you give your retailer some inferior stock (a cross-section), and that customers can go direct to you to hand-pick one (through photos, specs etc etc), so why would a customer go to the retailer? Whereas, we can guarantee to get the best available product from the manufacturer, so where is the downside?

That brings me on to perhaps the most important question. I'm still failing to see why IJC has taken the heat on this post, for trying to be honest about the state of the cricket industry. There is one question which no one has actually answered.

What are the negatives of IJC taking time and care to hand pick the best possible bats for our customers? How in any way can this be a bad thing for the customer?

Prices could go up to even more insane levels if makers are left constantly with a load of duff bats they can't shift
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 22, 2015, 02:30:15 PM
There is no negative at all really for the consumer, unless their tastes differ significantly from IJC's or if IJC's knowledge isn't up to speed and they're actually hand-picking bad bats (I don't believe this to be the case at all!)

As a manufacturer, I wouldn't encourage hand-picking. I'd say there's a cross-section and no retailer deserves favourable treatment. JSW do the same for manufacturers. But as a retailer, I can understand why you deem it important and wish to do it and it creates trust from the customer, and a belief in the products you're selling.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 22, 2015, 02:43:15 PM
How certain is it that the maker puts out their best stock for the hand picking process?

If the retailor handpicking from a batch or from what is there they are handpicking the best of what is there not potentially the best of their stock

just a thought unless you have an agreement where all the shop is open for you to hunt through or there is plenty of stock to choose from on the day the retailor visits
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Kulli on October 22, 2015, 02:44:06 PM
The above raises the point as to why all shops down handpick, but then they don't all have the same business models.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 22, 2015, 02:44:10 PM
or as a manufacturer you make the best possible product (as most stve to do anyway) and let that eb the end of it?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 22, 2015, 02:52:00 PM
"One man's trash is another man's treasure"

When I was younger and used to pick out bats at Fearnley/Boundary Sports for my own use, I knew exactly what I was looking for - but everyone's desires are different. Personally I always looked for 7/8 grains with a touch of heartwood on the outside edge - what if the retailer handpicking the bats doesn't like heartwood? Or if said retailer would prefer to pick more grains over less?

Hand-picking is only ever subjective to the thoughts of the retailer - I'm not by any means saying that IJC/Vitas/UZI do a bad job (I'm certain they don't in fact!), but it may not be perfect for my own needs. If I had my heart set on a particular bat from one of the smaller brands, then I'd probably just contact the maker directly in the first place and get exactly the bat I wanted

Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 22, 2015, 03:02:34 PM
"One man's trash is another man's treasure"

When I was younger and used to pick out bats at Fearnley/Boundary Sports for my own use, I knew exactly what I was looking for - but everyone's desires are different. Personally I always looked for 7/8 grains with a touch of heartwood on the outside edge - what if the retailer handpicking the bats doesn't like heartwood? Or if said retailer would prefer to pick more grains over less?

Hand-picking is only ever subjective to the thoughts of the retailer - I'm not by any means saying that IJC/Vitas/UZI do a bad job (I'm certain they don't in fact!), but it may not be perfect for my own needs. If I had my heart set on a particular bat from one of the smaller brands, then I'd probably just contact the maker directly in the first place and get exactly the bat I wanted

This is why we (and the other forum shops) always ask for pre-orders. That way we can pick out things that customers like (in terms of looks at least as pickup/performance are of course very subjective but i like to think we do our best) from the entire selection at the supplier in question.

But B&S, you've just admitted that you give your retailer some inferior stock (a cross-section), and that customers can go direct to you to hand-pick one (through photos, specs etc etc), so why would a customer go to the retailer? Whereas, we can guarantee to get the best available product from the manufacturer, so where is the downside?

That brings me on to perhaps the most important question. I'm still failing to see why IJC has taken the heat on this post, for trying to be honest about the state of the cricket industry. There is one question which no one has actually answered.

What are the negatives of IJC taking time and care to hand pick the best possible bats for our customers? How in any way can this be a bad thing for the customer?

I don't see a negative for the customer. But considering you have spoken about openness, fairness, ethics etc. Taking all the best bats off say Phantom Cricket for example isn't terribly fair on them. Everyone knows TK doesn't allow brands to buy for example just 10 2'8 grade 1s. You have to take a cross section of quality, grades and weights. Where do all the not so good Phantom bats go? This is partially the reasoning behind Kookaburras decision to prevent handpicking of their lower grades I would suggest. Stops shops from saying 'look how good our £100 kookaburras are, much better than the planks from retailer x'

We are more than happy to sell the entire B&S range, not just the handful of big, light, max grainers in every batch. This is something that is fair for both parties, and offers the customer a choice. In this very specific example we've had plenty of huge Afrikaner blokes walk into the shop asking for heavy B&S bats, normally we try to hold a pretty limited number of bats heavier than 2'12, if we weren't required by Gary to stock them, we probably wouldn't be making those sales to the big guys!

My only gripe from this topic is the (admittedly fairly subtle) suggestion that IJC is the only place to get a handpicked bat, or that perhaps IJCs handpicking is better thanks to a 'ping guarantee.'
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 22, 2015, 03:14:03 PM
This is why we (and the other forum shops) always ask for pre-orders. That way we can pick out things that customers like (in terms of looks at least as pickup/performance are of course very subjective but i like to think we do our best) from the entire selection at the supplier in question.

Fully agree with you on that mate, don't take it the wrong way - it was more aimed at other companies that aren't so engaged with the customers!! You guys do a top job.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 03:32:44 PM
Where is all the negativity that's being mentioned? There's been a lot of discussion of the pros and cons, but I don't think I've seen anyone straight up taking shots at handpicking. The discussion's been one of the more interesting threads of late too, and largely positive.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 03:53:05 PM
In reply to a few issues -

Yes, Jake, I agree that they may have made the sales, but B&S have admitted they make you take a cross section of bats, some which will naturally not be as good. Would you not, as a customer, rather have the better ones, we do still carry weight ranges too!

There is no subtle insinuation that we are the only place that handpicks. A lot of retailers handpick their bats - we've acknowledged that. But WE ARE THE ONLY PLACE THAT HAND PICKS EVERY BAT. As we have all agreed that hand picking is a good thing (the fact that other forum sponsors do it when they can, proves that they agree it is a benefit), surely it is a great thing that we are so unique in this way?

Phantom sell a lower grade bat themselves, directly, which we don't, and that's the answer to that question.

There will always be companies which don't handpick, your PDC, your Sports Directs etc etc, and so from a manufacturers point of view you can always shift bats that way.

At the end of the day, our obligation is to our customers. The people who pay for the product. That's why we don't really care whether the manufacturer agrees on a whole to our policy, and why we've stopped stocking certain brands. We will provide the best product for our customers that we can, and handpicking does this. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 22, 2015, 03:55:20 PM
No negativity on my part I have loved reading this Topic and impressed at the Passion shown by retailers on here we all love the Game and long may it continue 👍
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 03:55:46 PM
And in a direct question -

@VitasCricket. Do you accept that not being able to handpick B&S bats (in this example, which I must stress we didn't bring up), will mean that you get some slightly less quality bats than others? Can you honestly hand on heart say that you would handpick every bat you stock, given that B&S have already publicly come on here and told this forum that they tell you which bats to take?

How is that beneficial to the customer? Yes, I agree that having weight ranges is positive, but B&S have exposed the fact that if you don't hand pick, you are told by the manufacturer which bats you will take, and that can only lead to the customer losing out....
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: GDP1964 on October 22, 2015, 04:01:02 PM
Simple we never supply inferior products they may be inferior to you as you may not have picked them but as mentioned on here earlier what's good for the Goose may not be good for the Gander
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 22, 2015, 04:04:25 PM
Phantom sell a lower grade bat themselves, directly, which we don't, and that's the answer to that question.

Not according to their website, apparently they only stock 3 variants of the exact same thing...

PLAYERS
Grade 1 English Willow

PRO RESERVE
Grade 1+ English Willow

LIMITED EDITION
Grade 1+ English Willow
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
I must also stress, that we saw some bats which Vitas had picked today at Salix, and they were stunners, and so we are not at all questioning their ability to handpick! Merely suggesting that when you cannot hand pick, you are in a negative situation
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
B and S - Everyone hear knows that wood is a natural product. And everyone knows that some bats in the same grade will play better than others. That doesn't mean the worse ones aren't good. One LE bat may be good, one may be great, another may be simply out of this world.

However, when a retailer is forced to take the good ones, as opposed to handpicking what they feel to be the out of this world ones, then they are putting a product on their shelves which, is inferior to the product that they could have had, if they had been and handpicked.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 22, 2015, 04:11:53 PM
However, when a retailer is forced to take the good ones, as opposed to handpicking what they feel to be the out of this world ones, then they are putting a product on their shelves which, is inferior to the product that they could have had, if they had been and handpicked.

Rubbish, who's to say when you visit a brand that they show you their best selection to pick from? Who's to say they're not holding back the best of the best for their direct customers and leaving you with the leftovers to pick from? Best of a bad bunch?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 22, 2015, 04:12:38 PM
And in a direct question -

@VitasCricket. Do you accept that not being able to handpick B&S bats (in this example, which I must stress we didn't bring up), will mean that you get some slightly less quality bats than others? Can you honestly hand on heart say that you would handpick every bat you stock, given that B&S have already publicly come on here and told this forum that they tell you which bats to take?

How is that beneficial to the customer? Yes, I agree that having weight ranges is positive, but B&S have exposed the fact that if you don't hand pick, you are told by the manufacturer which bats you will take, and that can only lead to the customer losing out....

We pick what we want, Gary adds on (often on a sale or return basis) what we also need to have in order for a small brands business model to survive. As i eluded to before, long term it is pointless just taking the best lets say 10% of bats you can because it doesn't work out well for the supplier, the extreme end game being eventually there won't be any bats to choose from as that brand/supplier will have gone under.
Completely agree with you on big brands by the way, and long may we continue picking from GN, Kookaburra etc in order to get the best ones we can find.

With regards to the statement about other shops handpicking. It just came across that way, maybe Chris wrote it, not sure, you both seem to use the same account. As i've said i commend you for going down this route, it is of course unique, but there are other shops who pick as much of the stock that they possibly can.

I think largely we are in agreement, and hopefully no-one reading this takes it to be a squabble between two shops, because it absolutely isn't. Thank you for the Salix comments :)
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 22, 2015, 04:13:57 PM
Rubbish, who's to say when you visit a brand that they show you their best selection to pick from? Who's to say they're not holding back the best of the best for their direct customers and leaving you with the leftovers to pick from? Best of a bad bunch?

There is some truth here. The people on the shop floor at Kookaburra for example are not robots, or idiots, they know and love cricket and what makes a good bat. When visiting Kookaburra there are often some still sealed boxes, but handpicking appointments commence AFTER many of the larger accounts have already had their bats sent out.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:14:51 PM
Neon -

Handpicking is only ever a positive thing for our customers. I'm yet to see one single argument, from you or anyone else, which suggests otherwise?

And I know, because I've handpicked from the GN Players cupboards, and we've also been able to pick from there for our customers, so we know that places don't hide bats from us. Same as Kooks. We pick from the entire warehouse, looking all over the place. Same as Spartan, H4L, Salix, Newbery, M and H etc etc.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
Direct question to the forum -

Prove that handpicking has a downside to our customers.

And therefore it follows, that handpicking all of our stock, can only be a good thing for our customers.

That seems to me to be a fairly logically sound argument?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 04:18:26 PM
And this is why you put some people and companies off - handpicking does not make you the gods of choosing cricket bats! You can pick out bats which you feel look better and feel better under a mallet, but they haven't even been knocked in yet. Don't kid yourself you can guarantee your bats will be better than ones you didn't pick. Noone has tried to bash handpicking from a customers point of view, but you can't just declare that it's the holy grail of bat buying and expect people not to comment.

IJC's desire to get the best for your customers is commendable, I'm afraid your high horse and willingness to put down other retailers, companies (and actually their customers) often isn't. Maybe a little harsh, but the last few posts have annoyed me.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:22:14 PM
Edge - We have no desire to put down other companies or retailers. We've shown that by proving to you we think other companies pick cracking bats - look at our comment about Vitas' Salix selection - some absolute guns in there!

Handpicking does not make us gods. Absolutely not. But it gives us a better chance to pick better bats than not handpicking? It is not a perfect solution, nothing is. You can never absolutely guarantee the performance of the bat, you can only do as much as you can.

It is not the perfect solution, but logically, I think most people would agree it is a better solution than simply being pressured to take certain bats from a manufacturer.

Who would you rather buy  a GN/Kooks/Newbery bat from, a forum sponsor who has visited and selected each bat themselves, or PDC (or any other shop who fails to handpick)?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tommo256 on October 22, 2015, 04:24:59 PM
Are you able to handpick across all ranges of gray nicolls and kooka?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Are you able to handpick across all ranges of gray nicolls and kooka?

Last year yes. We handpicked everything from the Omega XRD Destroyer bat we took (under £80), to the GN Legend we took (over £500). There's some confusion at the minute over Kookaburra bats and the lower end this year, but we can confidently say, if we can't handpick it, we won't stock it.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Kulli on October 22, 2015, 04:32:15 PM
Is a potential downside to hand picking all bats that you then cannot stock some brands, and therefore offer customers a more limited selection.

Anyway, as someone said it's nice to see shop owners with a passion for their product!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: tommo256 on October 22, 2015, 04:34:47 PM
Last year yes. We handpicked everything from the Omega XRD Destroyer bat we took (under £80), to the GN Legend we took (over £500). There's some confusion at the minute over Kookaburra bats and the lower end this year, but we can confidently say, if we can't handpick it, we won't stock it.

But then surely if you can't stock the lower end bats, then the average cricketer who doesn't ideally want to spend lets say more than £130, you won't have those in stock as you just seem to be handpicking the top draw premium bats, that lets be fair are wasted on some of us! Im lucky that I get to hand pick what I want as a bat!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:35:15 PM
Thank you - sometimes I know we can get carried away, but it is because of that passion. I must emphasise clearly that we are not meaning to criticise any other brands, manufacturers, retailers, customers, or anyone! We are only trying to ecplain and prove why we feel our method to be the one we have chosen.

Potentially we cannot stock all brands yes, that's a fact (NB, GM etc). But we actually find that the ones which offer hand picking are the ones which can offer better value for money, and chances are if you're looking for something from a non handpicking brand, someone we have in stock has a very similar bat, which is most often cheaper and performs better than the equivalent bats from the non handpicking brand which we've had for knocking in! So yes, less choice overall, but most customers tend to trust our advice on similar shapes etc.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 04:40:20 PM
Edge - We have no desire to put down other companies or retailers. We've shown that by proving to you we think other companies pick cracking bats - look at our comment about Vitas' Salix selection - some absolute guns in there!
You've just had a bash at two other companies about their 'non-handpicked' bats, come on. Mind you, finding guns at Salix has got to be like trying to find blonde girls with big tits at the Playboy mansion!

Of course I'd rather buy a quality bat from a forum sponsor than a dog from PDC, that's not the point at all. Point is that (for example) B&S not letting retailers handpick their bats would in no way stop me from buying a superb B&S bat. Same with GM, retailers may have to take what they're given but that is a disadvantage for you, not for the customer, who can spend or not spend their money as they see fit! Handpicking is great, but where you rub people up the wrong way is insisting that it's the ultimate way to buy cricket bats. It's one way, which has its' positives, and other ways have theirs too. Good luck with your way and the service you provide of course, and also good luck to companies who feel it doesn't fit with them!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 22, 2015, 04:45:56 PM
To jake @Vitas Cricket

If gunn and Moore offered you the chance to handpick this years stock would you

A ) say yes and arrange the next visit

Or

B ) decline saying your happy with the current arrangement and will sell what you receive?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
You've just had a bash at two other companies about their 'non-handpicked' bats, come on. Mind you, finding guns at Salix has got to be like trying to find blonde girls with big tits at the Playboy mansion!

Of course I'd rather buy a quality bat from a forum sponsor than a dog from PDC, that's not the point at all. Point is that (for example) B&S not letting retailers handpick their bats would in no way stop me from buying a superb B&S bat. Same with GM, retailers may have to take what they're given but that is a disadvantage for you, not for the customer, who can spend or not spend their money as they see fit! Handpicking is great, but where you rub people up the wrong way is insisting that it's the ultimate way to buy cricket bats. It's one way, which has its' positives, and other ways have theirs too. Good luck with your way and the service you provide of course, and also good luck to companies who feel it doesn't fit with them!

Understand that - it was meant more as questioning than attacks - apologies to all if it came across the wrong way.

We ship a lot to overseas customers, who don't have the chance to see the bats as much in person, and so need to trust the place they are buying them from. I feel that it is difficult for us honestly to be passionate about the products if we have just been told to sell them by our suppliers, and we have no input in the selection.

And why do PDC have dogs? Why is it acknowledged that is a gamble to shop from them? Yes you will get some stunners, same as at Sports Direct, or anywhere else for that matter. But you will also get some dogs, and that's because (partly) they are not hand picked, the care isn't taken over them in the same way that Uzi, Vitas, ourselves, or any number of other shops do.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 22, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
To jake @Vitas Cricket

If gunn and Moore offered you the chance to handpick this years stock would you

A ) say yes and arrange the next visit

Or

B ) decline saying your happy with the current arrangement and will sell what you receive?

Obviously A but I'm not sure what the point of the question is? I haven't disputed that handpicking is a brilliant practice. It isn't the be all and end all though.

@edge we do handpick our bats from B&S. We are then asked to take on more bats if necessary in order to offer a cross section of the range. This is usually done on a sale or return basis and is an arrangement that is fair on both us and B&S.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 04:58:40 PM
Had a few teammates buy GNs from PDC over the past couple of seasons, they've all been absolute shockers looks-wise! Including a 'test' grade with the waviest grains I've possibly ever seen, and an LE that is unused by the lad who bought it because it doesn't perform. Very cheap, suspect they're taking unsold returns or something similar to get the prices so low. An advert for handpicking if ever I've seen one ha!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Precisely.

Jake and Edge have now admitted that handpicking is a good practice.

Therefore, IJC being the only place where everything is handpicked, can only be a good thing right?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
However, we acknowledge that this is just our belief, and our business plan. It does not necessarily make it the only way of doing things, or even the correct way of doing things.

We've stated in the past we're not only in it for the money. We are in this business to provide our customers and ourselves with a rewarding service, which we believe we can do best with handpicking.

But again I stress, we are not always right (I'd take 50% of the time tbh!), and we respect and wish well other businesses who choose to take a different, but no less valid, approach.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 05:02:03 PM
@edge we do handpick our bats from B&S. We are then asked to take on more bats if necessary in order to offer a cross section of the range. This is usually done on a sale or return basis and is an arrangement that is fair on both us and B&S.
Sorry Jake, only meant to refer to B&S asking retailers to take a cross-section of the range. Clearly an arrangement that works, all the ones we see from you are stunners after all!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: smilley792 on October 22, 2015, 05:03:52 PM
Obviously A but I'm not sure what the point of the question is?


As 90% of my many many purchases go through yourself, and it's were I trust most of my cricketing money. I wondered if you would still put more trust in yourself than GM given the chance.

Answering A has to me ended this thread, and I shan't visit it again. Off to enjoy the res God the forum.
 
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: edge on October 22, 2015, 05:08:58 PM
Precisely.

Jake and Edge have now admitted that handpicking is a good practice.

Therefore, IJC being the only place where everything is handpicked, can only be a good thing right?
Jeez Paul/Chris, I don't think we ever denied it! It's a good thing that you hand pick, personally I don't think it matters whether you hand pick every single bat or not. Second post is much more friendly, I do like that you're up front about the way you do things and the service you're aiming to provide and I hope it pays off for you!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Vitas Cricket on October 22, 2015, 05:12:10 PM

As 90% of my many many purchases go through yourself, and it's were I trust most of my cricketing money. I wondered if you would still put more trust in yourself than GM given the chance.

Answering A has to me ended this thread, and I shan't visit it again. Off to enjoy the res God the forum.

@smilley792 i would go to GM first and foremost because visiting batmakers/bat warehouses is probably my favourite part of this crazy world. Absolutely I trust GM or we wouldn't order the amounts we do from them, but we would always say yes when given the opportunity to pick through the bats ourselves.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 05:13:45 PM
Cheers - I wrote that first one in a bit of a rush - and hence why I added the second one. Never realised how brief and terse it sounded until I read it back! So I apologise for that!

That's your opinion, we have ours, and at the end of the day it doesn't massively matter who is right or wrong or anything. We are all here because we love cricket, and the kit and every little detail about the sport, so really we are all trying to do what is best for our customers, we just go about it different ways! You'll get a cracking bat from a hundred different places, most of them on this forum! - we just think the best place is based in Central London ;)!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 22, 2015, 05:16:30 PM
Having been round gm it's a nice place to visit as its a good process

Just don't visit with @petehosk as he tries to steal things
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: petehosk on October 22, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
Having been round gm it's a nice place to visit as its a good process

Just don't visit with @petehosk as he tries to steal things

How very, very dare you  ;)
I simply have an eye for a decent piece of willow! Or in this topic I should probably say PEACE of willow!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 22, 2015, 05:40:25 PM
You had trotts bat up your jumper and security had to grab you

Although while they were pinning you down I tried to hide watsons bat
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: petehosk on October 22, 2015, 05:43:23 PM
I remember that! And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for them pesky kids!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 22, 2015, 05:44:46 PM
They were real players bats and you could see the difference compared to the thousands of other players bats
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Tom on October 22, 2015, 06:03:55 PM
I think both the Vitas approach and IJC approach are both great. Very customer centric and with the best intentions, albeit slightly different.

IJC are incredibly selective and only deals with brands on handpicking terms. Whereas Vitas handpick where possible,  but will stock the right products if there's also demand from customers. A more flexible approach, and of course they offer a net service if you're wanting to try out bats before you buy.

Playing devils advocate could being too selective mean you're missing out on some strong brands with some of the best bats around? Sure. Does vitas approach mean they'll end up with some slightly less attractive bats (compared to handpicked from other brands) from GM, sure. At the end of the day it's great to have such proud customer focussed brands on here.

No retailer is perfect but we have a damn good few on here (assuming they pay their invoices on time ;))
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2015, 06:34:02 PM
Slightly off topic, but felt it important to clarify that I haven't been posting on this thread at all today (too busy picking bats at Salix!) It's been Chris.  I think he has done a good job but sorry if there is ever any confusion over who is posting on behalf of IJC.  We will try to make this clearer moving forward.

Paul
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: lazza32 on October 23, 2015, 12:34:04 AM
"One man's trash is another man's treasure"

When I was younger and used to pick out bats at Fearnley/Boundary Sports for my own use, I knew exactly what I was looking for - but everyone's desires are different. Personally I always looked for 7/8 grains with a touch of heartwood on the outside edge - what if the retailer handpicking the bats doesn't like heartwood? Or if said retailer would prefer to pick more grains over less?

Hand-picking is only ever subjective to the thoughts of the retailer - I'm not by any means saying that IJC/Vitas/UZI do a bad job (I'm certain they don't in fact!), but it may not be perfect for my own needs. If I had my heart set on a particular bat from one of the smaller brands, then I'd probably just contact the maker directly in the first place and get exactly the bat I wanted

thats why having the pictures of the actual bats is great.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 23, 2015, 11:29:28 AM
been an interesting topic to follow, I guess it all comes down to time management.

If a retailer is selling a couple of hundred bats a year then they can probably afford to spend the time and effort ensuring they hand select each one coming into their store. However if a retailer is selling triple figures of bats each season across the spectrum of ranges then they can probably ill afford to hand pick each and every one and will rely upon the brands supplying them to ensure the bat grades/models reflect the price tag associated with them. After all its the brands reputation being showcased when someone buys/uses the bat in the middle so its in their best interests to ensure it performs admirably.

At the end of the day bats are made from a natural material so sometimes a lower grade model aesthetically may perform better than a high grade/priced model. It comes down to if someone is willing to spend the time looking for the diamond in the dirt each time to place upon their shelves.
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 23, 2015, 11:32:39 AM
Do you allow hand picking of your helmets @Ayrtek ?
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 23, 2015, 11:35:37 AM
@roco only if u provide a) custard creams or b) thatchers gold 👍



Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: roco on October 23, 2015, 11:37:01 AM
As an athlete of the highest regard I am not sure what those evil things you mention are but i'll investigate further
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 23, 2015, 11:40:47 AM
i have to agree with @Ayrtek on the thatchers!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 23, 2015, 11:41:53 AM
In all seriousness though, I used to assemble every helmet when we 1st started so I knew they had been hand-made by me to my QC level.

As volumes increased it wasn't the best use of my time to continue to do this so we got someone else to do it relying on their QC levels to represent our brand. My time was allocated elsewhere to further other things within the business to add value to it.

If IJC can afford to Quality Control (handpick) each bat themselves then great, Paul/Chris value this as part of their business plan and policy. Others would rely upon brand X's QC and spend their time elsewhere 👍

There is no right or wrong way of doing it as variety is the spice of life as they say and that's the beauty of the manufacturers continuously making bats as stock will turn over every time you visit if they are doing their job properly. Unlike helmets that are all made from the exact same materials to the same spec from the same tool so will be a constant unlike using willow!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 23, 2015, 11:48:16 AM
As an athlete of the highest regard I am not sure what those evil things you mention are but i'll investigate further

You'll require at least 5 pints to ensure a  thorough investigation 👍🍻
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: ItsJustCricket on October 23, 2015, 06:37:09 PM
been an interesting topic to follow, I guess it all comes down to time management.

If a retailer is selling a couple of hundred bats a year then they can probably afford to spend the time and effort ensuring they hand select each one coming into their store. However if a retailer is selling triple figures of bats each season across the spectrum of ranges then they can probably ill afford to hand pick each and every one and will rely upon the brands supplying them to ensure the bat grades/models reflect the price tag associated with them. After all its the brands reputation being showcased when someone buys/uses the bat in the middle so its in their best interests to ensure it performs admirably.

At the end of the day bats are made from a natural material so sometimes a lower grade model aesthetically may perform better than a high grade/priced model. It comes down to if someone is willing to spend the time looking for the diamond in the dirt each time to place upon their shelves.

time management is of course a major factor, but I don't think our model would need to change if we are selling thousands of bats per year. If we did that, I could afford to hire a new full time employee to look after the shop and order fulfilling, so I have even more time to handpick myself!
Title: Re: Cricket Bat Manufacturers vs. Cricket Bat Brands
Post by: i12breakfree on October 26, 2015, 09:19:22 PM
We need to have a master list of Brand names against their manufacturer's name ;)