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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 08:11:02 AM

Title: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 08:11:02 AM
Please have a read of my latest blog post on pressing - http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f (http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f)

Streaky
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: smilley792 on October 19, 2015, 08:22:40 AM
Good read.


Can't help but wonder who the customer from a specialist retailer is. Hmmm??????
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: uknsaunders on October 19, 2015, 08:40:10 AM
Good stuff Streaky, though we'll be trying to guess who the test player was now!

As for the specialist cricket retailer, probably quite a few people think Pro Pressing exists. Having been to b3 a few times, I know it never has but sometimes this stuff needs to get put into a blog for people to listen.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Blank Bats on October 19, 2015, 12:06:46 PM
I think to some extent the soft and hard press thing may have come about by the "feel in the hands" you get when you rebound a ball on the new bat face. Sometimes you can just tell it's a beauty.

Great to have someone with Dr. Bacon's expertise giving us an insight.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 19, 2015, 12:17:37 PM
Please have a read of my latest blog post on pressing - [url]http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f[/url] ([url]http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f[/url])

Streaky


Brilliant post. I'm sick to death of hearing 'soft press = high performance' nonsense.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Kez on October 19, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
Well said Doc! Maybe people will start listening, pretty sure the Gray Nics makers debunked this myth a few years back.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: sgcricket on October 19, 2015, 02:53:22 PM
Great insight there doc. To be honest, I had started believing this after reading about it on the forum. Glad that you cleared it up.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: wayward_hayward on October 19, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
Good common sense article, keep them coming please.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: VKS on October 19, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Very good article. Nice to see someone telling it exactly as it is.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: GoldenArm on October 19, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
We'll obviously never get a complete answer about this, but as we're on the subject, can anyone accurately speculate as to what Newbery are doing to their kudos2's? Or is it all just spin?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 19, 2015, 04:31:59 PM
I'd love to hear an actual answer, in my eyes I can't see how it isn't just a load of marketing BS.

Also, if you can press your bats better - wouldn't you do it for every bat in the first place...
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 19, 2015, 05:26:05 PM
DOnt know how Newbury do it but the kudos square does have a greater rebound  off the middle when you tap it up than other bats not massively but noticeable.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 19, 2015, 05:36:11 PM
DOnt know how Newbury do it but the kudos square does have a greater rebound  off the middle when you tap it up than other bats not massively but noticeable.

It's not massively noticable you say...
Would you notice it at all if Newbery didn't tell you that the Kudos 2 was the only bat to benefit from their magic smoke & mirrors pressing technique?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: gazr5 on October 19, 2015, 05:54:34 PM
Interesting article Streaky. Think a lot if it is marketing. Just look at golf clubs. Always offering more distance but if you were to properly test the difference would be negligible.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 19, 2015, 06:06:15 PM
Interesting article Streaky. Think a lot if it is marketing. Just look at golf clubs. Always offering more distance but if you were to properly test the difference would be negligible.

Maybe, maybe not with golf clubs. Compare a clubs from 20 years ago to a modern one, the technology will have moved on.
I think it was the Taylormade Burner 2.0 irons that claimed to hit longer than other clubs. This was true as they were altering the angle and shaft length to the next clubs up (e.g a 4 iron Burner would be a competitor's 3 iron).

I don't think you can alter a bat's face angle and handle length
 to hit the ball further, its more down to the player, whereas get a decent set of game improvement irons and you will hit the golf ball straighter (and maybe longer) 
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 06:32:03 PM
Interesting article Streaky. Think a lot if it is marketing. Just look at golf clubs. Always offering more distance but if you were to properly test the difference would be negligible.

Bit of a geek, but love this stuff -

There was has been a lot of research in golf about a correlation to the way the ball sounds and how far you think it went. So rather than watching the ball you mind is telling that is was a great / OK / bad shot depending (delete as appropriate) on what sound it made.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 06:33:44 PM
I'd love to hear an actual answer, in my eyes I can't see how it isn't just a load of marketing BS.

Also, if you can press your bats better - wouldn't you do it for every bat in the first place...

Exactly - my thoughts entirely. Might be my first article on the blog regarding technology in cricket - I'm torn between this and the honeycomb handle from Laver......
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 06:36:48 PM
Maybe, maybe not with golf clubs. Compare a clubs fronlm 20 years ago to a modern one, the technology will have moved on.
I think it was the Taylormade Burner 2.0 irons that claimed to hit longer than other clubs. This was true as they were alrering the angle and shaft length to the next clubs up (e.g a 4 iron Burner would be a competitor's 3 iron).



Exactly - the one thing that the old boys in the MCC have ensured is lack of (well none) technology in cricket, which means the bats of yesterday should be as good as today - I co authored an article in the Cricketer on this, which can be found here - http://wp.me/p69Qw2-M (http://wp.me/p69Qw2-M)
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 06:37:49 PM
Very good article. Nice to see someone telling it exactly as it is.

Thanks, hopefully more to come, although the English Language is not my strongest point!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 19, 2015, 06:38:55 PM
We'll obviously never get a complete answer about this, but as we're on the subject, can anyone accurately speculate as to what Newbery are doing to their kudos2's? Or is it all just spin?

Could you forward me on a link?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 19, 2015, 06:40:01 PM
It's not massively noticable you say...
Would you notice it at all if Newbery didn't tell you that the Kudos 2 was the only bat to benefit from their magic smoke & mirrors pressing technique?
I get what your saying
 Cam   Alsowhen you tap up the Kudos 2 it resonates a little different.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: i12breakfree on October 19, 2015, 06:43:43 PM
Could you forward me on a link?



http://newbery.co.uk/products/kudos2-senior-handmade-cricket-bat (http://newbery.co.uk/products/kudos2-senior-handmade-cricket-bat)

It says

"Professionally pressed – just like we do for pro players."

Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: GoldenArm on October 19, 2015, 06:46:11 PM
Could you forward me on a link?


Did you just want a link to Newberys own blurb?

http://newbery.co.uk/blogs/news/15843960-introducing-kudos2-best-cricket-bat-of-2015 (http://newbery.co.uk/blogs/news/15843960-introducing-kudos2-best-cricket-bat-of-2015)

They even use the phrase pro pressing!!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: smokem on October 19, 2015, 07:32:20 PM
Great read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Doc.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: gaurav23 on October 20, 2015, 08:57:30 AM
Got a query Doc - can one technically over-knock a cricket bat ??
I prefer preparing my bats for long hours but am scared each time I'll end up draining its peak. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 20, 2015, 09:12:51 AM
Got a query Doc - can one technically over-knock a cricket bat ??
I prefer preparing my bats for long hours but am scared each time I'll end up draining its peak. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tend to look at it like running a new car in, you cannot do enough but after a time it becomes pretty pointless. So I would suggest better air on the side of caution and knock more than opposed to less. I have to say however, that modern day bats need less knocking in compared to yester year, I have heard some stories about marathon knocking in.....
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: gaurav23 on October 20, 2015, 09:16:24 AM
Marathon knocking-in  -- sounds a lot like me [emoji51]
Will try & restrict myself to 4 hrs then.
Thank you once again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: roco on October 20, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
im in the 30 min club for knocking in as get bored after that but found if I put a scuff on first its usually ok as I got it from jullian millichamp videos
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: tim2000s on October 20, 2015, 09:19:08 AM
I tend to look at it like running a new car in, you cannot do enough but after a time it becomes pretty pointless. So I would suggest better air on the side of caution and knock more than opposed to less. I have to say however, that modern day bats need less knocking in compared to yester year, I have heard some stories about marathon knocking in.....
Some bats, especially those from B3, require pretty much no knocking in.... In my humble experience.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 20, 2015, 10:04:21 AM
im in the 30 min club for knocking in as get bored after that but found if I put a scuff on first its usually ok as I got it from jullian millichamp videos

I'm the other way round with this, personally I knock the bat in before applying a scuff sheet (or at least round the edges before applying one).
And I've recently been converted to the dark side, I actually like fibreglass scuff sheets
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 20, 2015, 10:24:49 AM
I'm the other way round with this, personally I knock the bat in before applying a scuff sheet (or at least round the edhes before applying one).
And I've recently been converted to the dark side, I actually like fibreglass scuff sheets

We also knock in before we attach the cover.

Paul Nixon used to put 2 covers on and go and play in the nets, once he had a few sessions he used to remove the second face and then the bat was ready for play.

Fibre glass scuff sheet is becoming evermore popular with our Pro's and we now offer this as an option - it is also lighter too!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: skip1973 on October 20, 2015, 10:50:25 AM
A knowledgeable poster on this site claimed pro's don't use scuff sheets because it affects performance, what's your view on this Doctor?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 20, 2015, 11:07:04 AM
A knowledgeable poster on this site claimed pro's don't use scuff sheets because it affects performance, what's your view on this Doctor?

Ha ha
It's the start of the Australian cricket season  someone has a load of bats with scuff sheets they need to sell.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 20, 2015, 12:09:15 PM
A knowledgeable poster on this site claimed pro's don't use scuff sheets because it affects performance, what's your view on this Doctor?

Not the Pro's we supply!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 21, 2015, 10:45:41 AM
Did you just want a link to Newberys own blurb?

[url]http://newbery.co.uk/blogs/news/15843960-introducing-kudos2-best-cricket-bat-of-2015[/url] ([url]http://newbery.co.uk/blogs/news/15843960-introducing-kudos2-best-cricket-bat-of-2015[/url])

They even use the phrase pro pressing!!


I think this is probably true, which is probably going to sound strange but let me explain.

I cannot guarentee this is the case but I am assuming the following - Mass manufacture of a cricket bat is a timely process, so in order to speed things up an "express press" would be developed - getting the desired effect (described here - http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f (http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f) ) as fast as possible. Where as Pro's would get the optimum press regardless of how long it takes. Also the production might be different, for example the bow may be cut in the mass manufacture- but that is a different topic for a different day.

So my guess would be that this particular bat is pressed how they press the Pro bats - taking their time / Pressed bow etc.

I would like to state that the above is an assumption only and not based on any hard factual evidence of TK's production methods.

Just to point out before I get asked - B3 press all bats the same regardless if you are in International Pro or Little Tommy using a size 1 one stripe.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Northern monkey on October 21, 2015, 05:38:36 PM
With an answer like that, then yes you are gonna get asked a question about how you guys press.

Do you press each cleft individually,testing rebound as you go? As Paul Aldred demonstrates in his video?
Or is your press set at a pre determined height and the clefts run through in batches?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: e4sby on October 21, 2015, 06:03:50 PM
I hope Streaky doesn't mind me answering this question

'Do you press each cleft individually,testing rebound as you go?'

Having been to B3 a few times and seen the lads at work I can safely say they don't mass press clefts.

Each individual cleft is individually tested throughout the pressing process to obtain the premium performance. If you ever go to the factory you will see them constantly bouncing a ball on the cleft after every pass.

I own 3 B3's and can safely say I've never own bats that perform as good as they do.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Northern monkey on October 21, 2015, 06:14:19 PM
That's what I wanted to hear
Good lads
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: hell4leather cricket on October 21, 2015, 06:43:27 PM
really? on all of the photos i look too hard at, the Aussies seem to mostly use the fibreglass mesh sheets... [url]http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/493294318-nathan-reardon-of-the-bulls-bats-during-the-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXtC6ZstT844z1n%2f4hiDkCLsqWDuwta42RmXrCKOcWP6oDL91DiMwaNdmQ2860cF5Mg%3d%3d[/url] ([url]http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/493294318-nathan-reardon-of-the-bulls-bats-during-the-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXtC6ZstT844z1n%2f4hiDkCLsqWDuwta42RmXrCKOcWP6oDL91DiMwaNdmQ2860cF5Mg%3d%3d[/url])


When we done the kent vs aus game ,all the Aussies asked for the fibreglass sheets ! Not sure why they prefer that style ,it's a batmakers nightmare when you have to take these off!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: brokenbat on October 21, 2015, 07:42:28 PM
When we done the kent vs aus game ,all the Aussies asked for the fibreglass sheets ! Not sure why they prefer that style ,it's a batmakers nightmare when you have to take these off!

And doesn't it make repair work much messier?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 21, 2015, 08:09:25 PM
Down the years, haven't we been led to believe that every Newbery/ TK bat is pressed to perfection?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Simmy on October 22, 2015, 07:13:34 AM
I think this is probably true, which is probably going to sound strange but let me explain.

I cannot guarentee this is the case but I am assuming from experience the following - Mass manufacture of a cricket bat is a timely process, so in order to speed things up an "express press" would be developed - getting the desired effect (described here - [url]http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f[/url] ([url]http://wp.me/p69Qw2-f[/url]) ) as fast as possible. Where as Pro's would get the optimum press regardless of how long it takes. Also the production might be different, for example the bow may be cut in the mass manufacture- but that is a different topic for a different day.

So my guess would be that this particular bat is pressed how they press the Pro bats - taking their time / Pressed bow etc.

I would like to state that the above is an assumption only and not based on any hard factual evidence of TK's production methods but based on personal knowledge only.



Now as above i don't know this for a fact. but i think your onto a winner.

from when i visisted Rob Pack it was clear that he gets a fair few parts mades from TK to make into blue rooms that are already pressed.

However i have seen him test many of these bats and then run them again through his own press to get the perfect performance.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 22, 2015, 07:38:14 AM
With an answer like that, then yes you are gonna get asked a question about how you guys press.

Do you press each cleft individually,testing rebound as you go? As Paul Aldred demonstrates in his video?
Or is your press set at a pre determined height and the clefts run through in batches?

Each bat pressed individually and tested all the way through the pressing process. Didn't see Easbo had already replied to this thread - thanks Chris!
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on October 22, 2015, 08:40:12 AM
@The Doctor

Regarding pressing, Do you do any short or long term testing on the bats? Or is it as your blog and then the mallet and ball bouncing?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 22, 2015, 08:42:32 AM
@The Doctor

Regarding pressing, Do you do any short or long term testing on the bats? Or is it as your blog and then the mallet and ball bouncing?

Mallet at the press and then ball once the handle has been fitted.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Kulli on October 22, 2015, 09:13:32 AM
Each bat pressed individually and tested all the way through the pressing process. Didn't see Easbo had already replied to this thread - thanks Chris!

Mostly playing devils advocate, but what's the difference between checking pressing with a mallet/ball and handpicking with a mallet/ball?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on October 22, 2015, 09:40:55 AM
I work on the same process, press individually and check with mallet and ball. Mallet can give you a harder strike to check firmness of the cleft and simulate a ball travelling where as tapping up a ball is more of a performance thing for me once handled so you get an idea of how well the ball rebounds across the blade. I press about 80-90% capacity is guess before handling and then fine tune once the handle has been fitted. I think this gives me a better opportunity to get that performance and longevity balance. Clefts always feel different when handled/Un handled

For me it depends on the mallet as some sound awful no matter how well the cleft is pressed.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Simmy on October 22, 2015, 11:13:30 AM
didnt know you had your own press lad!

was it easy to pick up? trial and error i would have thought?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on October 22, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
didnt know you had your own press lad!

was it easy to pick up? trial and error i would have thought?

Yeah had it a while now.

It was a little trial and error to start with but I just take my time and build up the pressure slowly. Find it easier to do and stops me going to far too quickly.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: FattusCattus on October 22, 2015, 12:43:21 PM
Mallet at the press and then ball once the handle has been fitted.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why this way round?  Is bouncing a ball on a handled bat a much better way of testing responsiveness?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on October 22, 2015, 01:03:57 PM
I use the mallet to test the firmness of the blade as I can get a better strike. I do use a ball pre handling but just to give an idea on performance. I use a ball after as it gives a better indication of performance. Plus it's fun and puts a smile on your face when it's not taking much effort to hit the ceiling, can't do that with a mallet!  It's just something that works for me.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: well past my peak on October 24, 2015, 06:15:31 AM
 Doc can a bat be over pressed??? the reason I asked here in Australia it is common practice for cricket specialist to press a bat at time of purchase.
It seems odd to me that the bat makers have gone to all that effort to get the press correct, then to have some part time shop assistant press the bat behind the counter.

Fortunately for me the only bats I have purchase for those retailers have been GMs ( they say they are hard pressed) which they don't re press however anything else which doesn't have a scuff sheet on gets the treatment.

Do any retailers in the UK press at time of purchase???
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: The Doctor on October 24, 2015, 08:19:51 AM
Doc can a bat be over pressed??? the reason I asked here in Australia it is common practice for cricket specialist to press a bat at time of purchase.
It seems odd to me that the bat makers have gone to all that effort to get the press correct, then to have some part time shop assistant press the bat behind the counter.

Fortunately for me the only bats I have purchase for those retailers have been GMs ( they say they are hard pressed) which they don't re press however anything else which doesn't have a scuff sheet on gets the treatment.

Do any retailers in the UK press at time of purchase???

I think one retailer might Press at purchase, the thing to consider here is the manufacturers warrentee will be null and void if it gets pressed again, but I guess from a customers point of view as long as the shop takes it on the chin then it is OK. The danger of over pressing is it can lead to face delamination.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Kulli on October 27, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
How would the manufacturer know it had been repressed, or would they all just automatically say no to this shop because they know they do that?
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: smilley792 on October 27, 2015, 02:44:01 PM
Doc can a bat be over pressed??? the reason I asked here in Australia it is common practice for cricket specialist to press a bat at time of purchase.
It seems odd to me that the bat makers have gone to all that effort to get the press correct, then to have some part time shop assistant press the bat behind the counter.

Fortunately for me the only bats I have purchase for those retailers have been GMs ( they say they are hard pressed) which they don't re press however anything else which doesn't have a scuff sheet on gets the treatment.

Do any retailers in the UK press at time of purchase???

Which retailers are those??

I discovered that one shop in aus use a press with a special made roller to round the edges as part of there knocking in, but it does not touch the face so to speak, and the face  was knocked in by a knocking machine after.
Can't remember which shop that was though.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 27, 2015, 02:49:00 PM
Is that The Greg Chappel Cricket Centre?
I saw on youtube they put bats through a press to kick start their knocking in process.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: well past my peak on October 29, 2015, 09:23:04 AM
yeah GCCC is one of many in AUS which presses the bats at time of purchase, its free when the bat is purchase there or $25 for a bat brought into them.
I just think it strange you pick out a $700 bat then the shop assistant who knows nothing about bat making rolls it through the press.
Kind of insulting the bat maker, as to say he hasn't done his job right we better press it again,
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: procricket on October 29, 2015, 10:01:53 AM
I have had a bat through the "press" in Sydney by GCCC. Infact it was Melbourne

In truth it is not a press with the force of a proper press more of a roller which rounds the edge.

It was not a industrial press at all which certainly didn't have the force of the presses bat makers have.
Title: Re: Pro Pressing
Post by: Nmcgee on October 29, 2015, 10:06:31 AM
That's why, when the GCCC boys offer to prepare your bat, you politely decline.