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General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: KarlPennington on February 24, 2016, 04:56:04 PM

Title: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on February 24, 2016, 04:56:04 PM
So my club have been netting for about a month or so now and all has been going well, I'm very rarely getting bowled and have been playing some good stuff. My standard... I've got to the stage where I'm a competent 2nd team player but the step up to the first team is proving a bridge too far but in nets this year I've been holding my own against the first team bowlers. On Monday I was facing a chap who had a bit more pace to what I'm used to facing. He was bowling full and looking to skittle the stumps, he cleaned bowled me 3 times in a row and has mentally undone all my good work. I was keeping a pretty low back lift because of his pace and length and just looking to play a forward defensive, no trigger movements, just presenting the full face looking to neutralise him and have some fun with the other bowlers, but each time as I was waiting for the ball to hit the face of the bat it hit the stumps behind me instead.

I know it's difficult to diagnose without watching me bat but as a very general rule I'm a decent batsmen when I'm looking to play shots, so against lesser bowling I can score quickly and look the part. But any step up in standard where I have to respect the bowling I always get bowled playing a forward defensive, it's like the forward defensive is my most risky shot.

I've been told that my best shot is my back foot drive, so maybe without being aware of it I have a preference in transferring my weight onto my back foot.

Anyway what are the fundamentals in playing defensively against pace and against full and straight? has anybody has the same problem where they could play shots, rarely get caught, rarely nick off but was a walking wicket to anything full and straight?? How did you overcome it.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on February 24, 2016, 04:57:02 PM
Hit on the up
Hit across the line

That's what white ball cricket is.. No defence as that's eeyore
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Akewstick on February 24, 2016, 05:11:02 PM
With your low backlift, is your bat staying low and using that low point as the start of the down-swing? Or are you subconsciously moving it back up again as the ball's coming down? unecessary extra movements, that's what was stopping me playing quicks.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on February 24, 2016, 05:19:26 PM
I had quite a high back lift and people often comment on my high elbow, which is great for punching off the back foot. But I noticed with my high back lift and high elbow my downswing was bringing the bat down too high, I felt like I was playing over the top of the ball almost, when it was full. So now I'm consciously trying to have a low back lift, but yes very possibly subconsciously moving it back up again. How can I correct this?
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: brokenbat on February 24, 2016, 05:41:30 PM
Two possibilities:

1. This may sound weird, but you COULD be playing too soon / lunging at the ball, subconsciously adjusting for the "extra pace". Tell yourself "he's slow" and just focus on playing the ball late, under your eyes.

2. You may be out of sync with his bowling action. Now that you've faced him, just mentally rehearse him bowling to you and "get used" to his action that way. Also, I find that one is quick, the batsman can start to get so jittery that he forgets the watch the ball all the way. Just relax and tell yourself that you are too good a batsman for this guy.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: brokenbat on February 24, 2016, 05:43:35 PM
Two possibilities:

1. This may sound weird, but you COULD be playing too soon / lunging at the ball, subconsciously adjusting for the "extra pace". Tell yourself "he's slow" and just focus on playing the ball late, under your eyes.

2. You may be out of sync with his bowling action. Now that you've faced him, just mentally rehearse him bowling to you and "get used" to his action that way. Also, I find that one is quick, the batsman can start to get so jittery that he forgets the watch the ball all the way. Just relax and tell yourself that you are too good a batsman for this guy.

oh and..

3. DO NOT tell yourself to play defensively. Be in your usual frame of mind - whatever that is. If you tell yourself to only defend, you will likely be very static and less positive in your movements...it will just disrupt your entire technique. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING - just tell yourself he's like anyone else, watch the ball very carefully and TRUST YOUR TECHNIQUE to do the rest.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Buzz on February 24, 2016, 06:59:44 PM
I think you are thinking too much about it. Plus indoor nets are nothing like a game.
Relax, watch the ball and hit it next time.

The bowler is probably bowling from about 18 yards any way.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on February 24, 2016, 07:05:10 PM
All good advice and all makes sense... I often describe myself as being like a rabbit in the headlights when I play first team cricket or against the quicks. I freeze, try and defend, get out.

A lot more relaxed in the two's and generally a better player. I have no doubt the standard has a lot to do with it but sometimes I do come up against first team bowlers in the two's and have a lot more success.

So try and play my natural game, don't pre-meditate a defensive stroke, relax and watch the ball...
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Woodyspin on February 24, 2016, 07:08:22 PM
Bat deeper in your crease gice yourself the extra half yard to see it and play normally
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: ppccopener on February 24, 2016, 07:20:47 PM
Yes don't lunge forward at the ball,a small step forward or back means you get moving and have more time.bat deep in the crease if you need to(obviously not if it's dead on the stumps and full thou) and if you get anything short outside off watch it go by as much as you can-so turn your head alongside the ball(your playing a leave here) that helps judge the pace of the ball.
Really really watch the ball and get in line as it won't seem as quick if you are in line.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 24, 2016, 08:14:27 PM
If you are getting bowled between bat and pad when you play your forward defensive shot ensure your top hand brushes the edge of  your front pad this will close  the gap between bat and pad
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: SirScottiod on February 24, 2016, 08:48:16 PM
Take a massive step to the off side and tw*t  it over square leg, playing shockingly across the line!!!
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: northernboy1987 on February 24, 2016, 09:00:20 PM
If in doubt, give it a clout!

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Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: InternalTraining on February 25, 2016, 05:19:21 AM
A lot more relaxed in the two's and generally a better player. I have no doubt the standard has a lot to do with it but sometimes I do come up against first team bowlers in the two's and have a lot more success.

So try and play my natural game, don't pre-meditate a defensive stroke, relax and watch the ball...

Without seeing you and the bowler in action, it is hard to say what you are doing wrong and what would remedy your situation. Regarding playing quicks, here are a few tips that helped me:

1. Practice against a Bola. Set the machine on the highest speed you are comfortable with and play different shots. I leave the machine at one speed/swing setting and move around a bit in my crease to simulate different lines and lengths from the bowler. Once you are comfortable at a speed, try a higher speed. I use increments of 3 mph when drilling. Challenge yourself in your practice, push yourself outside your comfort zone. Your goal should be: a. track a fast ball with your eyes by watching the ball; b. get comfortable against fast bowling. Make sure you are protected as well - wear a chest guard or an arm guard if you are new to Bola or high speed machine bowling. Bola hurts! [Note: When drilling shots or "grooving", use Bola between 62-68 mph. Those are different drills and not to be confused with what I am suggesting above.]

2. Net against as many different types of bowlers as you can. Initially, you will get bowled or even edge out but don't fret. Keep going at it until you become comfortable.

3. Develop your technique and this will take time. Coach can be a tremendous help with developing your technique. If you live in the UK, then you have a lot of options. Check out CricketYard on Youtube. It has some tips from ABD. One of his tips solved a huge problem I had with my trigger and preparation.

4. Sometimes best you can do against a quick is survive and not get out. Scoring runs or hitting bigs shots is not always possible against good, quick bowlers. Try to save your wicket and see them off. Last season, I opened against a quick who used to play first class cricket in the West Indies. When was I walking to bat (wearing a helmet), some Graham Norton wanna be yelled from the first slip: "Are you wearing a helmet?" In a few minutes, I knew what he meant. :D I didn't hit a single boundary against that guy but I took lot of singles and saw his 5 overs off. You can tell they (bowlers) are getting tired after every over. I had much better scoring matches than that one but that was the highlight of my season -  I saw off a genuine quick bowler who had 4-5 variations in his repertoire.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Buzz on February 25, 2016, 12:36:32 PM
I have to be honest without seeing any pictures of your batting it is really hard to help.

When I assess a player I will look at grip, stance and head position first and then I will look at how they move through the shots.

In your shoes there is clearly a confidence thing going on where you do not feel you belong in the first team - this you have to overcome either by scoring masses of runs in the 2's or by having a few good games in the first team and gaining confidence. It is up to the first team members to help you.

Going back to your technique - check your grip as this is the most important thing do your thumb v's point down the outside half of the bat? Quite often a batsman who plays around or over a ball is strangling the bat with the bottom hand and you see the v pointing down the inside edge of the bat (Jason Roy has this problem at the moment)

but get a video up of your next net as we can then give you meaningful help
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: TangoWhiskey on February 25, 2016, 01:14:02 PM
It's easier said than done but I always find that I deal better with fast bouncy net warriors by making sure I'm stood directly in front of the stumps. That way you are already in line with it. Then its a case of forcing yourself to stand there and no back away. I make a small trigger movement towards the stumps to get my feet ready to move as the bowler is entering his delivery stride and then just trust myself to get bat on it when it comes down.

I've had a bit of a falling out with our net warrior and he bumped me 9 balls out of 10 last night. The only trouble I had was the red mist making me play at balls that were sailing above my head which was a bit stupid but otherwise once you're in line with it you'd be amazed at what takes over naturally. The main problem is trusting yourself.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: paul090971 on February 25, 2016, 02:07:56 PM
Back in the day when I faced quicks,  I used to watch them clean up players who didnt want to be facing it. They had won already.

Just my 2 pence but I would mess with his head. I loved facing  quicks. They would get erratic very quickly if u messed with them.

If he bowled quick but full, Id charge him. Seriously. Quick step up the crease and force a straight drive straight back past him on the full or half volley. Yes u might york yourself but it will seriously piss him off. When he bowls short, just drop your hands if outside off, if over middle or leg, just  drop from your knees but keep looking at the ball. Just show some real confidence when facing him and I bet you end up playing first team this season.

That what I would have done years back. Now I have to spend a second trying to see what line & length it is.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: shamelessshaun on February 25, 2016, 03:16:20 PM
I always try not to over think. Watch the ball, keep my head still and play it under my snout. Don't just hold the bat out and wait for the ball to hit it, watch the ball and play late and you will find you have more time than you think.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on February 25, 2016, 05:00:39 PM
I think I watch the ball to a point, the point where I have assessed the line and length etc and maybe I am a little guilty of taking my eye off the ball when I'm playing the stroke so I should work on that.

In terms of grip, I think I'm slighty confused about how should my V line up? My V's line up with the line that runs down the back of the bat. Last year I had some coaching and the guy said they should line up between the centre of the bat and the outside edge... That didn't look or feel natural though, it was like I was holding a golf club and not a cricket bat.

Now I've often heard the term get in line and I kind of know what it means but cricket is a game of fine margins, so if I stood in line correctly and let the ball hit me... where exactly would it hit me??
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: TamGoodrich on February 25, 2016, 10:35:41 PM
I have always triggered back and across as it gets me ready for the ball. Gets my feet moving and I feel I can easily go back (your preference) or forward. May be worth a try, no harm!


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Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on March 01, 2016, 05:21:50 PM
So I faced my nemesis again in nets last night. Armed with some forum advice. I batted deeper in my crease and tried to play my natural game instead of pre-meditating a defensive stroke. I had a little more success although I did get cleaned up once but when a ball is angling into middle and leg and hits the top of off you have to be a little forgiving on yourself. I did play a half drive/half edge through point and a crunching cover drive against him though so a step in the right direction. I think I need to really focus on watching the ball all the way onto the bat though ;)
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on March 01, 2016, 05:38:43 PM
watching the ball all the way onto the bat though

I believe that's not physically possible but good luck 👍
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on March 01, 2016, 06:00:18 PM
I believe that's not physically possible but good luck 👍

Do you not think so? Me either to be honest and a veteran at our club who was a run machine said that he never watched it onto the bat, but then when I asked him how did he account for late swing/seam movement he couldn't really give me an answer. Guess it came naturally to him. You know I played footy since I was 7 and have never asked a question on a forum... Cricket has that habit of making people obsessive does it not?
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: brokenbat on March 01, 2016, 06:04:19 PM
Do you not think so? Me either to be honest and a veteran at our club who was a run machine said that he never watched it onto the bat, but then when I asked him how did he account for late swing/seam movement he couldn't really give me an answer. Guess it came naturally to him. You know I played footy since I was 7 and have never asked a question on a forum... Cricket has that habit of making people obsessive does it not?

the key is to not obsess with anything. you want to be in a natural state of mind, where your muscle memory and technique takes over. if you just watch the ball out of the bowler's hand and stay relaxed and ready, you will give yourself the best chance to react well.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: rbanners on March 01, 2016, 06:37:47 PM
According to the research quoted in Bob Woolmers book - "good" batsman see the ball out of the hand and then predict line and length and then pick it up again around when it bounces...whereupon you can try to watch it on to the bat...I think. It's been a while since I read it!

Well done. I think it watching it out of the hand and really concentrating and getting into position is supposed to be the way to do it - from one school of thought, rather than watching it for all 400ms between release and contact with bat (or leg/stumps/edge).
Cheers



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Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: Batbuddy99 on March 01, 2016, 10:44:07 PM
According to the research quoted in Bob Woolmers book - "good" batsman see the ball out of the hand and then predict line and length and then pick it up again around when it bounces...whereupon you can try to watch it on to the bat...I think. It's been a while since I read it!

Well done. I think it watching it out of the hand and really concentrating and getting into position is supposed to be the way to do it - from one school of thought, rather than watching it for all 400ms between release and contact with bat (or leg/stumps/edge).
Cheers



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That would explain the Yorker I got out to tonight
I predicted the lime and length but didn't pick it up again as it pitched on my foot and went into the stumps!

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Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: rbanners on March 01, 2016, 11:02:52 PM
And why I hit a Yorker onto my toe last week...


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Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: InternalTraining on March 02, 2016, 02:40:05 AM
I don't think you should take your eye off the wall. Keeping head still helps with that. Although I watch the release of the ball from the hand, I find it difficult to gauge the length by looking at the point of release. It is nearly impossible for me to tell if the hand is close to the head (full) or further forward (short) - the angle from my vantage point is not enough. Maybe pros can do it. I can't.

The tactic that works for me is that I watch the release of the ball but prepare for a full ball or yorker from the get go. Since I am watching the ball thru, if it is not a full or yorker, I shift weight to the back foot. If it is a yorker or a full, I am already prepared for it.
Title: Re: Batting against pace and general defensive tips.
Post by: KarlPennington on March 09, 2016, 05:46:37 PM
Again more success this Monday and I learned a completely new technique that nobody has mentioned... Measure the length of the wicket at 25/26 yards as opposed to the usual 22. Worked a treat ;)