Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: SAF Bats on January 08, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
-
We hear a lot of people say ping is great off the mallet, lovely ping etc etc. That is down to the pressing more then anything else.
So todays question! What is your pressing preference and or which bat do you think had the best pressing?
-
...stands up and clears his throat and turns his attention to the teacher.....
"I think this is a very difficult question to answer straight up - it's quite hard to tell what type of pressing the bat has had because density of the willow plays an important role in determining how the bat can be pressed. Performance wise i would be looking for an ultra light bit of willow, however this may compromise the type of pressing as it may not be able to take a harder pressing and therefore may only be presssed soft........swings and roundabout i'd imagine.
This is purely speculation on my part - i've watched tim do a few but no other batmaker, be interesting to see the variations in the press
I would want my toe pressed though (i.e. not stupid bow)
I also prefer a middle ground between longevity and perfromance - what type of pressing would this require sir?"
-
Firstly, Norb thanks for creating such great topics. This is what the forum should be about - learning. Hope this topic does not end in a cat and a dog fight like other topics have.
For a layman it is very difficult to say want kind of pressing they want on their bat or how should a particular willow should be pressed. Some may feel that a softly pressed willow will give better performance and others feel a harder pressed willow will deliver better performance.
I think the end users should only be concerned with the performance of the bat and the decision on the pressing should be left to the batmakers.
I feel a huge majority of the end users will not have any clue as to how they can differentiate between a normal density cleft and a low density cleft let alone what pressing will result in the best performance or a balance between performance and longevity. Needless to say over pressing would probably reduce the size of the sweet spot.
Each willow will require individual attention. However, given the demand and supply issues not many batmakers are in a position to give individual attention to each cleft as it a very time consuming process and not many trained and expert hands available to do so.
IMO the best pressing would be Newbery, Warsop, Salix and Screaming Cat. Most of the brands from the subcontinent area hit or a miss pressing....except for custom made bats from the likes of SS, SG and a few others for which even they charge £200+.
Norb, if feel that the pressing of the willow and the kind of handle that get put would decide the performance of the bat.
-
I guessed it would be a difficult question to answer so I added the which bat had the best pressing bit at the end...
I have seen people say soft pressing which is a bit of a misnomer really... As for the actual pressing it is dependant on the willow itself.. For longevity you'd press a little bit harder, for performance you'd want to get an optimum based on the willow I do it based on sound. Bowing can be achieved with a good toe but you cant just bow it
So which bats had the best pressing / ping from the outset maybe an easier one to answer
edit: Yash, Cat and dog fight well I added to that a bit myself last time by disagreeing with an opinion in an antagonizing way!
-
I have to say that my m&h harlequin from about 7 years ago absolutely flew from day one - my new talisman storm also pings well and i have a feeling this year it will be even better. These are the two that stand out for me.
-
A middle ground between durability and instant performance would be ideal for anyone i suppose (exept for professionals and sponsored players who do need need to worry about durability)
I have found Gunn and Moore bats to be the best match to my personal preference, my old Duellist 808 took a little longer to play in, but when it reached its optimum performance level it was a good enough bat in terms of ping (i hate the word ping!) to match a bat from the top of any range.
The top and bottom of it is that at a non professional level, a person will want a bat to last about 2 seasons, sometimes more. So for me that balence of ping(cringe) and performance is crucial... since i am an absolute idiot with my money (always wanting the lastest gear, knowing its probably just the same as the stuff i have alread got!) i probably err more on the side of ping(cringe) as i am willing to buy a new bat more regularly than others
-
one of my Lavers was great one needed playing in a bit as it was a bit soft....
My guilty pleasure was a Slaz V200 wonderfully pressed bat for £60
But I'd have to says Nipper was phenomenal
Mr Cricket - coefficient of restitution is a techie term for bouncability if you don't like ping :-)
-
Agreed, Nippers got is spot on, i have one of his knocked in and ready to go for the next season.......could be a good one for me!
-
Coefficient of Restitution (COR from mongoose by any chance?)
-
I could be a bit Talisman-ish here but who knows how there mind works at mongoose, maybe that is what it stands for
-
Hi Norb,
I mentioned about the fight as sometimes people make personal attacks on others or make a joke of those who may not have the good fortune of having acquired as much knowledge as them. My comment was not targeted towards you or any other individual, but was a general observation/comment as we all tread the fine line between discussing and arguing either knowingly or unknowingly.
I believe that this forum is a place to have fun, learn, sell and get good bargains without the hassles of ebay.
The best bats that I have had which either played or promised to play well are:
1. Screaming Cat (played really well from the word go)
2. Warsop (needed a bit of playing-in, but after that it went like a gun)
3. Newbery (Uzi c6 i bought from Asad, needed a bit of playing-in)
4. SS Custom (great ping, but I feel will peak with a bit of knocking-in and use)
5. BAS Blaster I had in 2008 (played well from the very beginning. think swaped it with Mike)
6. GM ICon LE - but would need a bit of playing-in before it reaches its true potential
-
More i think about it the more it makes sense - mmi and cor are both abbreviations - codrington probably read the article published on why the bats provide more power (never used one so cannot comment), saw the abbreviations used in it and thought that hey, this sounds revolutionary and techhie - but i could be way off the mark.
(This is not a dig aimed at mongoose Tom, just my musings)
Sorry for the off topic comments - back to pressing, have you thought up any different approaches to pressing a bat - besides the traditional heavy roller over the bat?
-
Yash agreed we all have days when arguing is better then discussing :-)
SillyShilly - yep agreed if MMI is Mass Moment [movement] of Inertia and it stands to reason that CoR will be Coefficient of Restitution
Not sure if the CoR bat has an article associated to it like the MMi though or there are any claims against it like the MMi
Those bats that have needed a bit of playing in are you happy with that or would you have prefered to knock in and go?
-
i would imagine that most people (myself included) would like a bat that you knock in a bit and off you go with it COR'ing all over the place - instant gratification.
-
Pay and play or P'n'P [trademark pending] some bats are Pay and Display mind you....
Some of the ones needing a few runs putting on them after knocking-in have had a soft-ish pressing. The hammering alone isn't forceful enough to get the blade ready so you actually need to start tw*ting a few balls in the nets to get it ready
PS: I just net my [bats I've bought] bats
-
Great topic to start as i dont really have a clue as to what cleft requires what pressing etc, etc....
I would imagine the ideal pressing the average Joe Public would be between performance and longetivity.
Ive got a Salix and just seems to play better and better but the toe is absolutely awful. Ive got a feeling it will break around the toe area this year. :(
-
Enough pressing to create a hard top layer but maintain a soft underlayer...
Worth an A- surely Norb?
-
Leo you can have a B+ :-) an A answer would have been a bit more geeky quoting surface stiffness depths :-) But that is the jist of it, for pressing very difficult to do mind you and therefore you have to knock in to finish it up
GJ strange on the Salix front for the toe is it a bowed blade?
-
Leo you can have a B+ :-) an A answer would have been a bit more geeky quote surface stiffness depths :-) But that is the jist of it, for pressing very difficult to do mind you and therefore you have to knock in to finish it up
GJ strange on the Salix front for the toe is it a bowed blade?
It is a bowed blade, and was extremely careful when i first used it. Always keep tape on it now when i use it as i think it would break otherwise...
But it is odd and cracks have started to appear on the bottom of the toe.
-
Any particular reason this may be Norb?
-
yes but I'd rather not answer that question!
-
hmmmm yes, think i know too!
Was hoping it was some other reason though :(
-
Pressing....
The best would be to provide the minimal thickness of compressed face able to withstand the rigours of match play. Hence the theory that the 2 piece face only compresses on the thin strip.
Soft pressing does not equal more power, it reduces the power. If you ask your bat maker to soft press your bat and he says he has either he does not know enough or he is telling a white lie. There is an optimum pressing in each cleft, a peak on a power graph if you need to visualise it, the peak will move around for clefts and so the aim is to assess each cleft before pressing and hit that peak.
-
Why do pros bats have such big profiles then, is that only due to density and not pressing?
-
hmmm very good Talisman - would you say the power graph is a general exponential growth graph
represented by y =k exp(ax)(3)
Where y is the dependent variable, k is a multiplying constant so depth of stiffness, a is a positive constant so the willows elasticity and x is the independent variable pressure applied
-
Why do pros bats have such big profiles then, is that only due to density and not pressing?
There are other bat makers and cricket bat researchers on here that could answer that question for you!
-
True, but there's only one Norb/Gollum (hows the cave working out for you)
-
skulking is good.... pressing conversation is exciting... but need more opinions to get the discussion going, I might need to bait some people out. Afterall I'm supposed to be skulking not anyone else :-)
-
Case Hardening ???
-
Compaction ???
-
Gradual Compaction ????
-
Moisture Content ???
-
South facing piece of Willow ???
-
Out of interest Bill did you make your press?
-
Yes, and it is operated by muscle power ,.. that is James muscles not mine anymore.
-
Was it based on another or your own design? Why not powered, does this make it a two man operation?
-
Bill have you had a chance to look at my yet?
-
Hi Bill thanks for the comments are you going to eloborate on your questions or are they for others?
-
It is meant to stimulate discovery.
-
For whom hardly anyone owns a press, how will it help the layman choose a bat in the shops or go for one of yours?
-
Hey Norb, I asked Bill a question, maybe 2, before you.
-
Tal. one man mostly, if you can manage to press by hand you can hear and feel the willow. Its like Zen!! Joke.
-
Ramond, Please remind me.
-
I've spent a lot of time learning about the pressing, watching a lot, love the fizz of a wet one, like watching a sauce reduce in a pan.
-
Ramond, Please remind me.
Have sent you a pm!
-
Hey Norb, I asked Bill a question, maybe 2, before you.
Sorry a 40th party got snowed off!!!
-
Simple... like the Merrcats say, ask if you can hit a new cricket ball up
We don't say we make or press bats the best, but we allow the buyer to use it before you pay, not many bat makers can offer this service. If they did it would make life easier for the buyer.
-
Simple... like the Merrcats say, ask if you can hit a new cricket ball up
We don't say we make or press bats the best, but we allow the buyer to use it before you pay, not many bat makers can offer this service. If they did it would make life easier for the buyer.
Fine Bill and a very good service get any problems knocking a new ball up, do you ask people to take it easy or are you happy to let them rip with a new bat in the nets?
-
NO. take 2 bats ,if you are facing some raving loony with a crap ball ,you are asking for trouble, Wait for some spin or do some defencive work, throw downs are best because you are in-control , we say use it but don't abuse it.
-
Bill, I'm going to have to come up north sometime soon.
-
I see same net advice as most but generally after knocking in and you can try at your place
-
If anyone wants more info, then please feel free to ring me as emailing is an pain for me.
Bill
-
Ok onto your discovery stuff - case hardening and moisture content are loosely related
Are you drying the willow yourselves?
-
That will be a yes as Anglian willow is always green.
-
the other stuff - Compaction and gradual compaction is fairly self explanatory with regards to pressing - South facing willow is slightly confusing mind you!
-
the other stuff - Compaction and gradual compaction is fairly self explanatory with regards to pressing - South facing willow is slightly confusing mind you!
Is it something along the lines of extra heat from the sun will be provided to the tree when it is growing? Possibly reducing moisture content?
-
Thats the thing though Leo they all get there moisture content reduced to an approxiamte predefined level after they have been wax ended.
The only thing I can think of is the diameter of the vessels, that said, the vessel diameter will be smaller if it is a sunny area. That is as the moisture in the air wanes and temperatures increase in the summer, the vessels are smaller diameter cells, if we're having a hot summer that is! A large vessel tree will be lighter, for example Balsa Wood
-
Which round/cut of tree is said to be the best,,i,e 1st ,2nd,etc.?
Whats the best time to fell a willow tree, i,e summer ,winter Autumn ,etc.?
-
best to cut willow in the spring to do with the sap content, sap rises? easier to get the bark off aswell!
-
The best round would be the middle one in a clean trunk, for lowest density in tree, there is no best time to fell, winter tree's dry a little quicker if air dried.
-
and they stop growing in the autum/ winter....
In the spring when the air is cooler and there is more moisture [showery springs] the tree ready's itself and is growing...