Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Calzehbhoy on June 12, 2016, 03:07:53 PM

Title: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Calzehbhoy on June 12, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
Noticed a lot of the England guys bats appear to be 50/50 heart and sapwood, do you reckon there is a reason for this? Better performance or just by chance?
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: runeshrenik on June 12, 2016, 07:23:29 PM
A lot of it is just theoretical. Heartwood is the oldest part of the tree, therefore is dryer. Theoretically this means that it will be harder. Heartwood is formed from the dead cells of what was sapwood to maintain structural rigidity in the tree.

Many batsmen prefer to have heartwood as they believe it prevents cracks on the edges so the bat may last longer. No one is 100% certain how much of a difference it really makes. The only thing I can say is that rarely people will use a bat which is 100% heartwood as it is less likely to perform as sapwood.

I am not a professional, this is just my understanding so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. We are all here to learn and pass on our knowledge!
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 12, 2016, 07:27:19 PM
A lot of it is just theoretical. Heartwood is the oldest part of the tree, therefore is dryer. Theoretically this means that it will be harder. Heartwood is formed from the dead cells of what was sapwood to maintain structural rigidity in the tree.

Many batsmen prefer to have heartwood as they believe it prevents cracks on the edges so the bat may last longer. No one is 100% certain how much of a difference it really makes. The only thing I can say is that rarely people will use a bat which is 100% heartwood as it is less likely to perform as sapwood.

I am not a professional, this is just my understanding so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. We are all here to learn and pass on our knowledge!

I had an Octane that was all heartwood and it went just as well as any sapwood bat I've ever used.

I've spoken to @smilley792 about sapwood vs heartwood bats too and I believe he had a bat that was mostly heartwood
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: runeshrenik on June 12, 2016, 07:30:17 PM
I had an Octane that was all heartwood and it went just as well as any sapwood bat I've ever used.

I've spoken to @smilley792 about sapwood vs heartwood bats too and I believe he had a bat that was mostly heartwood

I stand corrected! But I understand that there is a difference in the time it takes for the bat to play itself in?
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: smilley792 on June 12, 2016, 07:43:37 PM
I stand corrected! But I understand that there is a difference in the time it takes for the bat to play itself in?

I rarely knock my bats in, the ones that have been all to majority heartwood have gone from the off.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 12, 2016, 07:44:55 PM
I wouldn't know to be honest with you, I got it second hand and just used it.

It did seem to crack a bit more than a sapwood bat but that might just be because I used the edges too often.

The biggest difference I noticed was the sound when you hit the ball
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: ppccopener on June 12, 2016, 07:57:59 PM
Heartwood bats tend .to have a lot of grains but I've found they tend to 'crack' where as a white willow bat is more likely to 'dent'
I do think heartwood bats go better from the off thou in my experience.
As for the pros, I guess it's down to personal preference. I heard trescothick say his first rule picking a bat is its all white wood,no red.

Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Buzz on June 12, 2016, 08:22:11 PM
Always nice to know you have something like this in the kit bag...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/IMAG0771_zpskpe0s244.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/IMAG0771_zpskpe0s244.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Northern monkey on June 12, 2016, 08:30:56 PM
Oh my word!
I'd have that

In fact that deserves a thread of its own
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on June 12, 2016, 08:43:31 PM
26 grains of pure heartwood
(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/Mobile%20Uploads/D80197B2-B45B-4BB1-BA18-4F1B061CB50A_zpssian69u6.jpg) (http://s752.photobucket.com/user/d7bow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/D80197B2-B45B-4BB1-BA18-4F1B061CB50A_zpssian69u6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: sanredrose on June 12, 2016, 09:44:59 PM
@d7bow - Very nice bat !!!
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: sarg on June 12, 2016, 11:09:49 PM
The heartwood is naturally stiffer due to less moisture as @runeshrenik correctly described. Just like @smilley792 pointed it will perform early due to the stiffness. It also cracks as the moisture holds the fibre together. Pro's need bats to play in early and are less likely to be concerned with cracking as they get them replaced and have spares in the kit. They can afford to treat them like a rent-a-car as top tier players never purchased them and therefore don't need to worry about maintaining them.

For a amateur you need to carefully oil and accept that the heartwood will probably not last as long as sapwood. I had a 3/4 Aussie BOSS Menace and used it one game it went well from first ball and edges flew off the stiffer heartwood and nearly cleared the boundary. My main scoring shot that day 😬

Sapwood will take take longer to reach its peak and perform the same if not better once played in.

I personally hate knocking heartwood on other people's bats as it is brittle. I oil it a bit more and have to take it easy when knocking it. Sapwood is supple once oiled correctly and does not crack as easy. @d7bow's B3 would have required almost  no prep due to the B3 stiffer press. I note it is well oiled.

Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on June 12, 2016, 11:23:17 PM
Yes I gave the old girl a mini refurb and two coats of oil, now looks like David Dickinson!!
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: The Cricket Boutique on June 13, 2016, 06:58:52 AM
Here is one from my supply!

(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah203/mecy69/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-13%20at%2007.46.07_zpszdmxuwk4.png) (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/mecy69/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-13%20at%2007.46.07_zpszdmxuwk4.png.html)

(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah203/mecy69/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-13%20at%2007.46.17_zpsy1fq0y74.png) (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/mecy69/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-13%20at%2007.46.17_zpsy1fq0y74.png.html)



Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Sivlar13 on June 13, 2016, 07:07:03 AM
One from my collection.

(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b451/Joshua_Sivier/Mobile%20Uploads/2A392A06-87DD-4673-864E-BA59AFBEA5EA_zpsnixvwb4y.jpg) (http://s1045.photobucket.com/user/Joshua_Sivier/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2A392A06-87DD-4673-864E-BA59AFBEA5EA_zpsnixvwb4y.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: edge on June 13, 2016, 07:47:38 AM
Stopit. *I do not need a new bat. I do not need a new bat. I do not need a new bat...*
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 13, 2016, 08:30:35 AM
So, do people prefer their heartwood on the inside or outside edge?
I' right handed and prefer it on my inside edge

(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/20160613_083115_zpsxi9b7ivq.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/20160613_083115_zpsxi9b7ivq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: JB on June 13, 2016, 08:38:01 AM
Never really been fussed which side its on, just like a bit on my bats
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 13, 2016, 08:52:05 AM
I just like bats, never been too fussed about having (or not having) heartwood.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: smilley792 on June 13, 2016, 09:01:26 AM
Inside edge!!

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/4185B4F5-DC3B-40FF-B063-6F181BFDE681_zpsczdkslkr.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/4185B4F5-DC3B-40FF-B063-6F181BFDE681_zpsczdkslkr.jpg.html)

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/1E66A3C6-C1AF-4059-B82D-311DB070330A_zpsgexoigpv.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/1E66A3C6-C1AF-4059-B82D-311DB070330A_zpsgexoigpv.jpg.html)

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/B762CFEE-0BB6-4F0E-9A03-4682631083A2-394-00000067D236C759_zps20bac544.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/B762CFEE-0BB6-4F0E-9A03-4682631083A2-394-00000067D236C759_zps20bac544.jpg.html)



And outside but majority

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/IMG_0262_zps35f27c0e.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/IMG_0262_zps35f27c0e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Calzehbhoy on June 13, 2016, 04:06:19 PM
So a basically 99% heartwood bat would ping like crazy but probably break within a year?
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Northern monkey on June 13, 2016, 04:10:58 PM
Like any bat, so many factors come into bat longevity
Ball quality, anti scuff fitted, how many balls faced,etc etc

Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: JB on June 13, 2016, 04:49:14 PM
What profile is the H4L Custom @smilley792 ?
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: InternalTraining on June 13, 2016, 05:01:47 PM
About 80% heartwood.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag466/Limitedintervaltraining/Mystery%20-%20multi%20grain/bde5df73-f3f8-40d5-9577-a98d7fbf40ec_zpslri4kbbf.jpg) (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/Limitedintervaltraining/media/Mystery%20-%20multi%20grain/bde5df73-f3f8-40d5-9577-a98d7fbf40ec_zpslri4kbbf.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: smilley792 on June 13, 2016, 05:38:14 PM
What profile is the H4L Custom @smilley792 ?


That one.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/F9DA09C6-CF5C-47DF-A1C9-9F2A0F6F6577_zpskc8dtdbu.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/F9DA09C6-CF5C-47DF-A1C9-9F2A0F6F6577_zpskc8dtdbu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Drupy01 on June 13, 2016, 06:38:36 PM
What beast that H4L custom is!! :o
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Ridenmarke on June 14, 2016, 05:31:43 AM
Heartwood always seems better on a right hander's inside edge.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Sitonit on June 14, 2016, 06:03:00 AM
Heartwood always seems better on a right hander's inside edge.

There is a theory that having a strip of heartwood on the outside of right hander's  edge is always desirable as it will make the ball travel farther and/or quicker. (Paul from itsjustcricket usually says this as a selling gimmick in YT videos and I genuinely like this bloke :) so no offense intended)
Any my two counter arguments are -

1 - If this is any truth in it, then a slip catch that would have fallen short in front of the fielder, will now land straight into his hand if you edge one with such a bat.
2 - If there was ANY truth that heartwood makes the ball travel quicker and/or farther than all international players will only play with 100% heartwood bats. And such timber would hardly be available to the general public.


Now, heartwood in the inside edge? I will only say that it will make the ball travel towards the stump and shatter your furniture more faster than ever before.


In my personal opinion, a strip of heartwood in a nice and clean cleft, only adds a cosmetic beautification for some - including myself.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Sitonit on June 14, 2016, 06:06:57 AM



([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/B762CFEE-0BB6-4F0E-9A03-4682631083A2-394-00000067D236C759_zps20bac544.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/B762CFEE-0BB6-4F0E-9A03-4682631083A2-394-00000067D236C759_zps20bac544.jpg.html[/url])




Great cosmetics with a flair of heartwood. Looks awesome with those stickers and butter looking sapwood.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Sitonit on June 14, 2016, 06:08:22 AM
That one.

([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/F9DA09C6-CF5C-47DF-A1C9-9F2A0F6F6577_zpskc8dtdbu.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/F9DA09C6-CF5C-47DF-A1C9-9F2A0F6F6577_zpskc8dtdbu.jpg.html[/url])


would be nice if it's under 2.10
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: gibbinscricket on June 14, 2016, 07:49:44 AM
The heartwood is naturally stiffer due to less moisture as @runeshrenik correctly described. Just like @smilley792 pointed it will perform early due to the stiffness. It also cracks as the moisture holds the fibre together. Pro's need bats to play in early and are less likely to be concerned with cracking as they get them replaced and have spares in the kit. They can afford to treat them like a rent-a-car as top tier players never purchased them and therefore don't need to worry about maintaining them.

For a amateur you need to carefully oil and accept that the heartwood will probably not last as long as sapwood. I had a 3/4 Aussie BOSS Menace and used it one game it went well from first ball and edges flew off the stiffer heartwood and nearly cleared the boundary. My main scoring shot that day 😬

Sapwood will take take longer to reach its peak and perform the same if not better once played in.

I personally hate knocking heartwood on other people's bats as it is brittle. I oil it a bit more and have to take it easy when knocking it. Sapwood is supple once oiled correctly and does not crack as easy. @d7bow's B3 would have required almost  no prep due to the B3 stiffer press. I note it is well oiled.

Hey Sarge I remember that bat LOL. That was a good bat. The best performing bat out of wrapper of all the Boss bats I had was the 100% heartwood/sapwood bat. I would have kept it but was too light for me at 2.8. It's not til you have 25+ bats at your disposal and you can go thru each one do you realize that sometimes the uggos are the good ones.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: sarg on June 14, 2016, 08:37:56 AM
Hey Sarge I remember that bat LOL. That was a good bat. The best performing bat out of wrapper of all the Boss bats I had was the 100% heartwood/sapwood bat. I would have kept it but was too light for me at 2.8. It's not til you have 25+ bats at your disposal and you can go thru each one do you realize that sometimes the uggos are the good ones.

Your not wrong Ross. I was begged to sell that bat and sold it at cost. Six months later when I had a Maximus he wanted to exchange it for the Maximus and pay the difference. Must have thought I was Costco or something.

He asked me a few weeks ago to prep a bat and....sorry mate I don't do that anymore.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 14, 2016, 08:41:37 AM
would be nice if it's under 2.10

I know Matt's good but to get a bat that size in 2lb10 would be defying the laws of physics lol
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: langer17 on June 15, 2016, 11:33:31 PM
Here's my GN Elite with very close to 50% Heartwood

(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h440/butsy1723/2016-02-24%2013.14.16_zps5wutow4u.jpg) (http://s1109.photobucket.com/user/butsy1723/media/2016-02-24%2013.14.16_zps5wutow4u.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Ridenmarke on June 16, 2016, 03:35:37 AM
Those Elites all seem to be real beauties.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 16, 2016, 09:18:59 AM
Personally Always try to buy a bat made of Sapwood  younger  willow more moisture less brittle.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: Bats_Galore on June 16, 2016, 09:43:30 AM
Not sure that I care weather it's heartwood or sapwood, had good bats in both. Durability not really an issue for most of us one here I wouldn't have thought, any breakages are an excuse to buy another bat.
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 16, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Personally Always try to buy a bat made of Sapwood  younger  willow more moisture less brittle.

This is an interesting one - Some say the heartwood is more brittle so doesn't last as long, while others say it's harder so more durable.

Does anyone know a definitive answer if sapwood or heartwood is more durable, or is it all just theoretical?
Title: Re: 50/50 Heartwood
Post by: langer17 on June 16, 2016, 11:34:56 AM
What we can say for certain is that every bat is different and unique  :D