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Equipment => Bats => Bat Care => Topic started by: WalkingWicket37 on July 21, 2016, 11:13:43 AM

Title: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on July 21, 2016, 11:13:43 AM
Hi all

Day off work so a random thought I've just had. Apologies in advance if this is a load of rambling.

We all know that we knock in bats to make a "crust" of harder willow on the surface of the blade. This is the same sort of principal as pressing, but even a B3 that's been "ready pressed" will need some mallet loving and playing in before the performance reaches it's peak.

Now onto my thoughts. B3 ready press their bats, which is what some people would describe as a "firm" press, while I've had a couple of SS bats that dent considerably from the mallet. These would be what people think of as "soft" pressed. In theory however, after some knocking and playing in both softly and firmly pressed bats would eventually be compressed to the same level, so should perform very similarly.

No onto my thought. I know someone on here says you need to knock a new bat in a further 3-5mm, but is it as clear cut as that?
My thought was, is knocking in as scientific as that, or doe jut know when a bat is done?
I've had a couple of bats that I could not indent with the mallet no matter how hard I hit them, but still knocked them in as I would normally. I also had an SS that felt rather soft and dented noticeably. I knocked this in until the surface of the bat was level again and it now feels just as good as the bats I couldn't dent.

So basically my question is, can you measure how knocked in a bat is scientifically, or do you accept each bat is different so do each individual bat by eye and feel? I personally go for the latter, but I'd love to hear others thoughts on the matter (especially though from a bat maker).  :)
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: The Doctor on July 21, 2016, 11:22:42 AM
I guess you could use an adapted vickers hardness test
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: patriotscreen on July 21, 2016, 11:50:06 AM
I've always done it to the point where I can no longer deepen the marks made by the mallet, have always found that softer pressed bats don't last though. especially around the edges, a press can apply more pressure than a mallet ever will. I have a Slazenger V360 that's in it's 5th season now, hard pressed, no ball indentations on the face (a couple of seam marks higher up) and no damage. Bat goes like a gun, and weighs JUST under 2.6. It's a feather that packs a punch. Had a couple of soft pressed bats that I made and knocked in myself, they regularly pick up small amounts of damage. I can never seem to get rid of hammer indents when knocking in, so my theory is hammer it until you can't make any more indents, then you know it is ready!
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: horseman on July 21, 2016, 12:02:43 PM
I guess you could use an adapted vickers hardness test

"Damn beat me to it". Is what i wouldve said if i had a clue what one was.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on July 21, 2016, 12:21:46 PM
Each cleft is different so I would just base it off when the marks no longer deepen and go from there
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Northern monkey on July 21, 2016, 03:54:58 PM
Best bats I've had, I've not knocked in!
I've rounded edges, but that's it.
And you know how my bats go
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: 330Mark on July 21, 2016, 04:14:34 PM
As I have mentioned before, I am just returning to the game after a long hiatus...things have moved on since I were a lad (goes all misty eyed)
This is the exact information that I need to know...having purchased 3 bats in quick succession (before I've even found a club lol)
my net slag/wet pitch bat is fully knocked I reckon...grains just starting to open up and the ping is really good.
my other 2 have been supplied with a thick scuff sheet that means i can't quite see what is going on in their middles (hence me asking how long to knock in in another thread)
plus there is wax these days...chip fat when I weret'lad (gone irrevocably misty eyed now)  :)
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: ppccopener on July 21, 2016, 04:21:59 PM
As I have mentioned before, I am just returning to the game after a long hiatus...things have moved on since I were a lad (goes all misty eyed)
This is the exact information that I need to know...having purchased 3 bats in quick succession (before I've even found a club lol)
my net slag/wet pitch bat is fully knocked I reckon...grains just starting to open up and the ping is really good.
my other 2 have been supplied with a thick scuff sheet that means i can't quite see what is going on in their middles (hence me asking how long to knock in in another thread)
plus there is wax these days...chip fat when I weret'lad (gone irrevocably misty eyed now)  :)

welcome Mark, back to the wonderful game. Love the expression 'net slag'.Things have changed a lot, first up with bat wax I tried to put it on my wife's bikini line i'm sure we have all been down that road and got it wrong.

Nowadays, bats have 70 mm edges, and 100 mm spines, you can even get 200 mm edges and no spine. Has it changed for the better, well who knows?

anyway, whatever you need can be found on these boards.Not myself, but there are experts round every corner.

 :)
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: edge on July 21, 2016, 05:15:08 PM
I remember back in the day being told by my school cricket coach that it was a good few hours of ball in a sock, then old ball, then go harder until the grains open up, then two coats of oil, then you can consider using it.
Can see why so many kids have GMs these days, you can imagine Mum and Dad at the shop - "you don't need to knock these in? praise the lord, I don't care what stickers Joe Root uses these days but you're having a GM son"
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: GoodLeave on July 21, 2016, 05:37:26 PM
Things have changed a lot, first up with bat wax I tried to put it on my wife's bikini line

I herby invoke rule #1 of CBF. Pictures or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: tim2000s on July 22, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
Best bats I've had, I've not knocked in!
I've rounded edges, but that's it.
And you know how my bats go
I'm very much the same. I hate knocking in. The only one that I got knocked in was my Dynadrive special, which was done by Jake for me.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: ppccopener on July 22, 2016, 01:58:29 PM
I remember back in the day being told by my school cricket coach that it was a good few hours of ball in a sock, then old ball, then go harder until the grains open up, then two coats of oil, then you can consider using it.
Can see why so many kids have GMs these days, you can imagine Mum and Dad at the shop - "you don't need to knock these in? praise the lord, I don't care what stickers Joe Root uses these days but you're having a GM son"

I had a new with a newish gm 808 maxi last night. all stickers on ready to use. felt to me like it needed massive knocking in. have you got a GM and was it actually really ready to play. it's not a brand I usually use.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on July 22, 2016, 02:01:16 PM
Gm's are often pressed harder so require longer playing periods before they actually open up, often takes a good half or full season until they start to open up from experience
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: ppccopener on July 22, 2016, 02:04:40 PM
Gm's are often pressed harder so require longer playing periods before they actually open up, often takes a good half or full season until they start to open up from experience

ok thank you. I did wonder when I was batting with it. Feels quite a hard bat.....
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: moonball on July 22, 2016, 02:37:19 PM
I guess you could use an adapted vickers hardness test

Testing for the hardness of vicars sounds like something that should be brought to the attention of Operation Yewtree...  :o

The pressing is only really the face and relates to ping. Knocking in hardens / condenses the fibres on the edges and at the toe in order to avoid damage, so doing different things really. Just my view...   

Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: moonball on July 22, 2016, 02:49:57 PM
Had a knock up with a brand new GM Mana 808 last night (acquired for a bargain price... did me or my lad need another bat - of course we didn't). Very nice indeed, very responsive I have to say, felt good. Despite being "ready play", I did some knocking in prior to giving my lad some throw downs with it last night after junior nets... as I say, very responsive. We have two games this weekend and a T20 on Tuesday, if he doesn't use it, I will. If as some have said, it opens up after half a season, then I think I have bagged a real winner for little money.

One pet hate - knocking in a bat that already has a scuff sheet on it.... wrecks the scuff sheet on the edges, edge tape needed to cover the 'damage'. But I guess GM aren't expecting folks to knock-in these pre-prepared bats...
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: OwzatOllie on July 24, 2016, 09:35:57 PM
I knock bats in until I can't dent the face with a decent strike with a mallet
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: OwzatOllie on July 24, 2016, 09:37:22 PM
Had a knock up with a brand new GM Mana 808 last night (acquired for a bargain price... did me or my lad need another bat - of course we didn't). Very nice indeed, very responsive I have to say, felt good. Despite being "ready play", I did some knocking in prior to giving my lad some throw downs with it last night after junior nets... as I say, very responsive. We have two games this weekend and a T20 on Tuesday, if he doesn't use it, I will. If as some have said, it opens up after half a season, then I think I have bagged a real winner for little money.

One pet hate - knocking in a bat that already has a scuff sheet on it.... wrecks the scuff sheet on the edges, edge tape needed to cover the 'damage'. But I guess GM aren't expecting folks to knock-in these pre-prepared bats...

Me too, I prefer to oil the face myself.

THankfully a hairdryer is quite good for helping to fix the scuff sheet on the edges with all those air bubbles that you get from knocking it in properly...
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on July 24, 2016, 11:27:43 PM
I always pay to have the bat knocked in so I don't have the issue of having to fart on myself
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Over Gully on August 08, 2016, 04:28:24 AM
I was surprised when doing a refurb on mine and taking off the scuff sheet at how many seam marks were on the face of the bat. No surface cracking or anything like that to worry about. The scuff obviously prevents these to a certain extent, and being an opening bat exposure to the new ball is something I deal with every time I go out in the middle. I just base it on feel, unless you get some severe damage after some throwdowns with old balls it should be fine. Just the edges and the toe are the most important areas by far.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Cow_corner on August 08, 2016, 07:58:07 AM
We had a club kit bag H4L Hattori, knocked in by an online/physical retailer and it came with free face cracks.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: tom line on August 08, 2016, 08:26:46 AM
We had a club kit bag H4L Hattori, knocked in by an online/physical retailer and it came with free face cracks.

If they were going vertically down the grain that's nothing to worry about and not too out of the ordinary either just the grains opening up
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: iand123 on August 08, 2016, 12:23:29 PM
Would be interesting to get the feedback from @hell4leather cricket as they have the machine that does this. Does the machine work for a set amount of time or strikes?
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Cow_corner on August 30, 2016, 06:49:46 AM
If they were going vertically down the grain that's nothing to worry about and not too out of the ordinary either just the grains opening up
Wasn't done by H4L but had some horizontal face cracks, won't name them, but safe to say money goes elsewhere next time.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on August 30, 2016, 08:16:21 AM
Wasn't done by H4L but had some horizontal face cracks, won't name them, but safe to say money goes elsewhere next time.

Surely it would be better to name them, so other people know not to spend their hard earned cash on a bat damaging knocking in service.
I can't think of much worse when buying a new bat than to go through the process of selecting it, paying an "expert" to prepare it for you, only to find they've damaged it
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Cow_corner on September 06, 2016, 05:04:54 AM
That just wouldn't be cricket, if you get my drift.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Churchy1989 on September 06, 2016, 07:19:58 AM
Do H4L use the machine for bats which are not made in the factory? I.e. My vs bat?
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Cow_corner on September 06, 2016, 11:50:10 AM
These H4L and the Kook I'm refurbing were from a retailer mentioning the sport in their trading name.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 06, 2016, 11:54:59 AM
These H4L and the Kook I'm refurbing were from a retailer mentioning the sport in their trading name.


It's Just too hard to work out with all these cryptic clues...
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: Churchy1989 on September 06, 2016, 05:22:01 PM


It's Just too hard to work out with all these cryptic clues...

Vitas cricket?

Only have good reviews for them.
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 06, 2016, 08:50:18 PM
I can tell you for a fact it wasn't Vitas!

I guess It's Just difficult to find out who knocked in the Cricket bat in question...
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: RoCo Da Pixie on September 06, 2016, 09:30:33 PM
I gave IJC a Chase FLC bat to knock in and when I got it back it had a massive dent in the middle of the bat. Apparently it came from the fact the willow was so soft. I wasn't impressed that's for sure
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 06, 2016, 09:33:15 PM
I gave IJC a Chase FLC bat to knock in and when I got it back it had a massive dent in the middle of the bat. Apparently it came from the fact the willow was so soft. I wasn't impressed that's for sure

Maybe they knew about your batting ability so only did the middle?  ;)
Title: Re: Knocking in - scientific or done by feel?
Post by: RoCo Da Pixie on September 06, 2016, 09:38:59 PM
Maybe they knew about your batting ability so only did the middle?  ;)

haha I will take it as a compliment Cam!