Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: FattusCattus on October 09, 2016, 01:22:50 PM
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Having just watch Shakib bowling some lovely finger spin, it got me to thinking about our spin 'weapon'.
I've backed him in the past, and I really want to like him, and believe he is the future of English spin - but today was the first time I got to have a really good look at a spell he's bowled. I was really surprised by how loose he was, there seemed to be at least 2 gimme balls per over and he dragged loads down. He also seemed to pitch a lot quite wide of the stumps as opposed to turning stuff away on a middle and off line.
He doesn't seem to create much pressure and quite a few wickets seem to come from long hops slapped to cow. I think my point is that he doesn't seem to have advanced as a bowler, having played quite a bit of international cricket, and seems quite unrefined - perhaps there is simply no-one in the England set up to work with him.
I'm more than happy to be proved wrong or to be argued against, as it's simply my observation - it's just that he doesn't fill me with a huge amount of confidence going on to India.
(Oh, and by the way, I am fully aware that our Yorkshire members will inform me that every long-hop he bowls is Andrew Strauss's fault and that all wides are an ECB conspiracy)
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I have never said anything like this.
Oh wait.
And definitely Strauss' fault.
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Maybe he's still tired a needed a longer break...
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I feel qualified now to comment on a bowling thread, having to my great joy(and surprise) been given at bowling marker at CBF nets. Long half volleys please to get going? Yes I can do that :)
Rashid is about as good as it gets for us, he gets more wickets and poses more of a threat than Mo.
He's a question to ponder FC....take Shane Warne out of the equation. Name one, just one, other leg spinner in the last 20 years who has real control of the ball and can land it where he wants consistently.In county or international cricket.
Murali would come to mind...but although I don't know if he would be classed as a wrist spinner or finger spinner...
I had to demonstrate leg spin as part of my level one coaching course years ago in front of the rest of the group.
About the hardest thing cricket wise I've had to do.
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Murali would come to mind...but although I don't know if he would be classed as a wrist spinner or finger spinner...
Definitely a finger spinner, but could turn his shoulder in such a way to bowl the doosra. freak comes to mind.
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Murali would be best described as an elbow spinner.
I suppose Qadir was a bit before this time, however I recall Mushy and MacGill both having significant control and developing over time as bowlers. I like the look of Yasir Shah and Amit Mishra was a decent bowler too.
I haven't written him off, but I;d love to see a bit more control and a bit more 'canny' with his length and line - particularly as he has a good google.
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Kumble's 619 test wickets suggest he wasn't too shabby ;). I don't remember him being a huge spinner of the ball but had very good control for a leggie, and didn't get all his wickets on the subcontinent. If Adil was a fraction as good as him we'd be very happy, tho I fear he's the best of a bad bunch we've got to choose from.
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Anil Kumble was probably the most accurate spinner I've seen, but he was totally different to Murali and Warne. Kumble a lot taller, bowled quicker and flatter.
Don't think you can really compare slow left arm to leg spin either. Watching the likes of Al Hasan and Jadeja they drive the ball into pitch. Their variations are with angles, speed and to a lesser extent spin.
Rashid has to get the ball up and down to entice the batsmen, but he seems to lack the skills to be a decent spinner. Seldom do you see Rashid get top batsmen out by setting them up, it's normally long hops and full bungers.
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Kumble was indeed an excellent spinner but yes very different to Warne and other leggies.
Can't be sure but think his stock delivery was a Googly, which is the opposite way Rashid(and Warne) bowl.
Mushtaq yes good shout FC
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Watching the other English Leggies this year, Beer (not so close) and Briggs (played for England before), They are both very similar to Rashid in terms of dragging it down and trying to over spin it like warn did from outside leg. it's fair to say that wickets don't offer that to these type of leg spinners, they bowl from a higher release point than Warne used to, but warne changed his pace alot aswell. Being able to throw a few leggies myself, i can confirm it is a hard trait to perfect, and there is a fine line between that good ball and a rank ball, the line being far smaller than it is for the off spinner. I have noticed though that quite possibly Rashid's run up doesn't give him the consistency we are asking for, Warnes was a slow walk to the crease and a quick gather, rashid's is quick and maybe he get's a bit over excited and slows himself down on occasion coming to the crease which can put him off rhythm? Just a theory... as im no coach, but there isn't a coach in the england set up to tell him any different so all he can go by is his fellow batsman's words and his own personal feel
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I'll give my two penerth worth
I like rashid
He does bowl some shoite, but he poses problems and asks questions of batters
If your good enough, then the bad balls will be put away, and he'll be expensive
But the threats there, that he can turn it.
My missus thinks he's crap and can't understand why I like his bowling
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My missus thinks he's crap and can't understand why I like his bowling
Sounds like a keeper!
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Hmm
She's lethal with a sidearm!ha
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Watching the other English Leggies this year, Beer (not so close) and Briggs (played for England before), They are both very similar to Rashid in terms of dragging it down and trying to over spin it like warn did from outside leg.
Briggs bowls slow left-arm orthodox.
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of course he does! same result though... short and Sh!t
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Rashid is, to be fair, usually a lot better than he was today - he seemed to be struggling to let the ball go for the first four overs.
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Boring Boring Boring.
He takes wickets, end of
Someone remind how many Ali has so far this series? And while we are at it, which one of them has scored more runs so far?
And yes I am a Yorkshire fan
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I would have thought Adil was currently less than popular with Yorkshire fans?
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We blame the ECB. For everything. ;)
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We blame the ECB. For everything. ;)
you did,,,and then thought at least 'we are not Durham'
:)
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Rashid is a good one day bowler. he doesn't offer the control or threat to be considered a test match bowler - i know not the point but it does have relevance.
In 50 over cricket people will attack him and he will take advantage with his variations to great effect.
In tests you can be more patient and wait for his rank ball with less pressure to score runs and "unlimited" time
so Rashid is good one day bowler and will continue to be. However, if he were more accurate he would be a fantastic limited over bowler and a very good test match bowler
how do people think Warne would get on it the current smash bang wallop limited over cricket?
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Can't see the issue?
He wins games for England in limited over cricket, sure he bowls some trash at times but it gets wickets!
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how do people think Warne would get on it the current smash bang wallop limited over cricket?
Having seen Warne bowling in limited overs cricket for Hampshire for years, his biggest asset was his ability to out think the batsman. Occasionally he went for a few (oh, to be a leg spinner!) but I honestly think he's be lethal even today, his control of the ball and the ability to know what a batsman was thinking before they thought it made him a total handful for anyone.
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Having seen Warne bowling in limited overs cricket for Hampshire for years, his biggest asset was his ability to out think the batsman. Occasionally he went for a few (oh, to be a leg spinner!) but I honestly think he's be lethal even today, his control of the ball and the ability to know what a batsman was thinking before they thought it made him a total handful for anyone.
absolutely. Warne in his prime would of been the most valuable player in T20. It don't really matter what format it is, bowlers win matches/tournaments/prize money.
similar questions get asked to Viv Richards.....by streets the best batsman I've ever seen and I've seen a few. Richards hit a 56 ball ton against us in.........1986. At the time that was groundbreaking.
Warne couldn't agree more-out thought batsmen. Truly fantastic player in all formats.
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absolutely. Warne in his prime would of been the most valuable player in T20. It don't really matter what format it is, bowlers win matches/tournaments/prize money.
similar questions get asked to Viv Richards.....by streets the best batsman I've ever seen and I've seen a few. Richards hit a 56 ball ton against us in.........1986. At the time that was groundbreaking.
Warne couldn't agree more-out thought batsmen. Truly fantastic player in all formats.
....and i seem to remember an old , washed up version of Warnie going ok for Rajhistan Royals in the inaugural ipl too !
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I have noticed though that quite possibly Rashid's run up doesn't give him the consistency we are asking for, Warnes was a slow walk to the crease and a quick gather, rashid's is quick and maybe he get's a bit over excited and slows himself down on occasion coming to the crease which can put him off rhythm? Just a theory... as im no coach, but there isn't a coach in the england set up to tell him any different so all he can go by is his fellow batsman's words and his own personal feel
Warne was a freak of nature with enough strength in his shoulder to get away with a leisurely stroll to the crease. Most mere mortals trying to do the same thing would just bowl slow, loopy deliveries which would do the job at club level but get clobbered all around the park against international players.
You're better off looking at other leggies, MacGill, Qadir, Yasir Shah all put a bit more into their run ups
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I feel qualified now to comment on a bowling thread, having to my great joy(and surprise) been given at bowling marker at CBF nets. Long half volleys please to get going? Yes I can do that :)
Rashid is about as good as it gets for us, he gets more wickets and poses more of a threat than Mo.
He's a question to ponder FC....take Shane Warne out of the equation. Name one, just one, other leg spinner in the last 20 years who has real control of the ball and can land it where he wants consistently.In county or international cricket.
Murali would come to mind...but although I don't know if he would be classed as a wrist spinner or finger spinner...
I had to demonstrate leg spin as part of my level one coaching course years ago in front of the rest of the group.
About the hardest thing cricket wise I've had to do.
Stuart Macgill
Anil Kumble
Mushtaq Ahmed
Danish Kaneria
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Sandakaran , the new Sri Lankan chinaman test bowler has good control .
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Deadly Derek Underwood left arm spinner the best of the best had the lot pace accuracy etc his wizardry took 8 for 9 against Sussex how many more wickets would he have added to his England total of 297 if he had not gone on that disapproved S A tour
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As long as he keeps buying wickets of the set batsman he can bowl all the tripe he likes...
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The way it goes really. Bowls three beauties, no reward, bowls a rank drag down, wicket time!
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its been known to cricketers for ages c**p balls get wickets..
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4 in this game for Rashid so far.
Not a bowler myself but always thought it don't matter how they come. same thing batting, if I get a 50 I don't care if 49 of them come off the bat handle.
:)
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Two short & a full toss! Proper wickets they are!!
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4 in this game for Rashid so far.
Not a bowler myself but always thought it don't matter how they come. same thing batting, if I get a 50 I don't care if 49 of them come off the bat handle.
:)
Rashid is a fine limited overs bowler but he's going to be ineffective in tests because the batsmen aren't under pressure to go after him. They can just wait for the inevitable bad balls and put those away.
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Four more in t'test today...
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Four more in t'test today...
I still don't rate him...
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Four more in t'test today...
I once got 7 wickets in an innings I am still crap though...........
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I still don't rate him...
It's getting abit female dog on here. The anti Yorkshire clique is on the rise!
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I'm all for rashid in one dayers and maybe a3rd spinner as he cleans up tails and bats but not accurate enough to be a no.1 spinner
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It's getting abit female dog on here. The anti Yorkshire clique is on the rise!
Nowt to do with him being from Yorkshire, I'd think Rashid was pony whoever he played for...
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Four more in t'test today...
He's still crap ;)
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I once got 7 wickets in an innings I am still crap though...........
You got 7 wickets against me last Sunday!