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General Cricket => World Cricket => Pakistan => Topic started by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 02:44:14 PM

Title: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 02:44:14 PM
So earlier this week, one of the million whatsapp groups I am in, a guy sends an image of the Pakistan Test World XI of all time. I am going to list the team below, would like to hear what people's thoughts are on the XI selected:

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammed
Zaheer Abbas
Inzi Haq
Javed Miandad
Imran Khan
Rashid Latif
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Fazal Mohammed
Waqar Younis

Now I can certainly think of some names that may consider themselves unlucky not to have been selected.... :)
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Mr_Orange on October 14, 2016, 02:58:38 PM
The obvious omission from my point of view is Younis Khan. All time leading run scorer after all!

Maybe Saqlain but that's a harder sell.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 03:00:41 PM
The obvious omission from my point of view is Younis Kahn. All time leading run scorer after all!

Maybe Saqlain but that's a harder sell.

Agreed on Younis Khan... I'd probably have  him in the side ahead of Zaheer. Whose record against the great Windies team during his era, was a very poor one.

Saqlain... quite possibly would fit into a Pakistan ODI World XI... Him and/or Saeed Ajmal?
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: rickjames on October 14, 2016, 03:03:59 PM
11 Misbah's
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Manormanic on October 14, 2016, 03:06:59 PM
Such a tough one with so many tainted by the stain of match fixing. I reckon Younis Khan and Yousuf Youhana/Mohammed Yousuf stand alongside Inzi.  I also wonder whether Mushtaq Ahmed and Salim Malik would be considered if e were looking purely at cricketing grounds
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
Such a tough one with so many tainted by the stain of match fixing. I reckon Younis Khan and Yousuf Youhana/Mohammed Yousuf stand alongside Inzi.  I also wonder whether Mushtaq Ahmed and Salim Malik would be considered if e were looking purely at cricketing grounds

I am guessing Abdul Qadir would get nod ahead of Mushtaq Ahmed

Salim Malik - is an interesting one. Would like to see what his record was like against the stronger nations during his time.

Yousuf certainly didn't have a great record in Oz.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Felix Tito on October 14, 2016, 03:32:08 PM
Both Inzamam and Yousuf ranked considerably higher for me than Younus.

Inzamam scored 10/25 Tests hundreds(40%) outside of the subcontinent. Yousuf scored 8/24 Test hundreds(33%)outside the subcontinent.

Younus is a flat track bully only 6/32 Test hundreds(18%)outside the subcontinent.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: procricket on October 14, 2016, 03:36:07 PM
Mohammed Nazer must be in there somewhere great player

Predictive text I mean Mudassar Nazar
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 03:58:40 PM
Both Inzamam and Yousuf ranked considerably higher for me than Younus.

Inzamam scored 10/25 Tests hundreds(40%) outside of the subcontinent. Yousuf scored 8/24 Test hundreds(33%)outside the subcontinent.

Younus is a flat track bully only 6/32 Test hundreds(18%)outside the subcontinent.

Interesting stats... Although Younis' record in Oz is better than that of Yousuf. And Younis also has a very good record in England.

Add Younis's stats for 100s in the 4th innings, he makes a compelling case for selection?
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: wasted_talent on October 14, 2016, 03:59:20 PM
Mohammed Nazer must be in there somewhere great player

Predictive text I mean Mudassar Nazar

Ah good shout. Not check him out actually.

Seems like no arguments on the bowling front..? Would Shoaib Akhtar get consideration?
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Alvaro on October 14, 2016, 04:03:01 PM
Both Inzamam and Yousuf ranked considerably higher for me than Younus.

Inzamam scored 10/25 Tests hundreds(40%) outside of the subcontinent. Yousuf scored 8/24 Test hundreds(33%)outside the subcontinent.

Younus is a flat track bully only 6/32 Test hundreds(18%)outside the subcontinent.

What percentage of Younus' Tests have been outside the subcontinent? What is the ratio of tests to hundreds then? I don't know, it would interesting to find out.

Also, scoring hundreds anywhere is pretty tough going, to dismiss them just for being inthe subcontinent is a little disparaging.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Big Mac on October 14, 2016, 07:26:33 PM
11 Misbah's

This guy has the right idea.

Both Inzamam and Yousuf ranked considerably higher for me than Younus.

Inzamam scored 10/25 Tests hundreds(40%) outside of the subcontinent. Yousuf scored 8/24 Test hundreds(33%)outside the subcontinent.

Younus is a flat track bully only 6/32 Test hundreds(18%)outside the subcontinent.

Such a tough one with so many tainted by the stain of match fixing. I reckon Younis Khan and Yousuf Youhana/Mohammed Yousuf stand alongside Inzi.  I also wonder whether Mushtaq Ahmed and Salim Malik would be considered if e were looking purely at cricketing grounds

MoYo had that crazy 12-18 months when it felt like he was scoring 150+ every other game without batting an eyelid but let's be honest here. He was a guy who constantly bottled it under pressure and shouldn't get near any all time XI unless you're putting together a team of players who look the best on youtube highlight videos.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Felix Tito on October 14, 2016, 09:49:17 PM
Interesting stats... Although Younis' record in Oz is better than that of Yousuf. And Younis also has a very good record in England.

Add Younis's stats for 100s in the 4th innings, he makes a compelling case for selection?
Yousuf peaked for around 24 months after he changed his name, so probably rule him out of the three way discussion.

I always had a soft spot for the big lad Inzy. For a beast of a man he was agile and his determination was second to none.

Younus is also a great player, but Inzy was a level above for me. Also Inzy and Yousuf toured Australia thrice, Younus has only gone there once so the stats aren't a real reflection.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Felix Tito on October 14, 2016, 09:53:19 PM
What percentage of Younus' Tests have been outside the subcontinent? What is the ratio of tests to hundreds then? I don't know, it would interesting to find out.

Also, scoring hundreds anywhere is pretty tough going, to dismiss them just for being inthe subcontinent is a little disparaging.

Younus 35/108(32%) Tests are outside Asia. In those 35 Tests he batted 64 times for his 6 centuries, so a hundred every 10.4 innings. In his 73 Tests in Asia, Younus has batted 129 times for 26 centuries, so a hundred just under every 5 innings. Much easier piling up the runs when the pitch offers zero swing or seam.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Manormanic on October 15, 2016, 06:53:07 AM
Younus 35/108(32%) Tests are outside Asia. In those 35 Tests he batted 64 times for his 6 centuries, so a hundred every 10.4 innings. In his 73 Tests in Asia, Younus has batted 129 times for 26 centuries, so a hundred just under every 5 innings. Much easier piling up the runs when the pitch offers zero swing or seam.

Surely that should read "in your home conditions"?  After all, the same could be said to apply to a lot of the current Australian complement, who are fine with the Kookaburra ball on hard flatties Down Under but turn to jelly when the ball spins/swings/stays hard for longer than a septugenarian.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: GoodLeave on October 15, 2016, 06:54:04 AM

I always had a soft spot for the big lad Inzy. For a beast of a man he was agile and his determination was second to none.

Not quite agile enough to climb over his stumps  ;)
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Manormanic on October 15, 2016, 07:07:27 AM
Seems like no arguments on the bowling front..? Would Shoaib Akhtar get consideration?

Wierd thing is, because Pakistan have had periods of isolation, there isn;t the wealth of statistical information or footage of past players to really tell.  We know obviously that Imran and Wasim were contenders for an all time World XI, that Waqar for the first four years of his international career was peerless and that Abdul Qadir was a wizard with the old ball, but about Fazal Mahmood etc, we know little - so 4/5 of your attack (unless you choose to play Imran as a batsman) picks itself.

One spot...Fazal has a reputation to fall back on if you want another seamer.  Shoaib would bring express pace (and remember that his stats were atually pretty impressive) or you could pick a second spinner from the ranks of Mushtaq, Saqlain, Intikhab etc. 

Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: golders on October 15, 2016, 09:10:23 AM
Is the late Wasim Raja in the team? What a wonderful natural talent, RIP! Check out his stats against the best...
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Felix Tito on October 15, 2016, 01:45:17 PM
Regarding Pakistan's spinner granted Qadir and Mushtaq Ahmed where good spinners, but Saqlain would be my choice. That series in India where he bamboozled the star studded Indian batting line up was extraordinary. Qadir and Ahmed where no match for the Indians like Saqlain was.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 15, 2016, 04:47:33 PM
If picking my favourites then Amir Sohail and Rameez Raja would be in the side . I think Yousef did crack a bit in pressure situations ( horrible tour to oz for example , poor leadership) . Inzy should be there on batting record , but , for me , difficult to pick such a lazy , sloth like creature ( in the field ) with a tendency to run out everything that moves ( including himself) . Only other batting possibilities for me are Salim Malik and Younus Khan , but Inzy would ultimately get the nod . If we were also picking coaches /back room staff etc I'd have Imran as coach as well as skipper and Safraz Nawaz as pace bowling coach . Also , now that i think of it , never really rated Latif much , perhaps Sarfraz could be picked ahead of him ?
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: GoodLeave on October 15, 2016, 04:53:54 PM
If picking my favourites then Amir Sohail and Rameez Raja would be in the side . I think Yousef did crack a bit in pressure situations ( horrible tour to oz for example , poor leadership) . Inzy should be there on batting record , but , for me , difficult to pick such a lazy , sloth like creature ( in the field ) with a tendency to run out everything that moves ( including himself) . Only other batting possibilities for me are Salim Malik and Younus Khan , but Inzy would ultimately get the nod . If we were also picking coaches /back room staff etc I'd have Imran as coach as well as skipper and Safraz Nawaz as pace bowling coach . Also , now that i think of it , never really rated Latif much , perhaps Sarfraz could be picked ahead of him ?

Ramiz Raja... great player, terrible commentator.

"And the ball is bowled. In a forward direction. The batsman hits the ball. Also in a forward direction.

Must have been taught by Roy Walker... "Say what you see"...
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: golders on October 15, 2016, 06:54:39 PM
http://m.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/43553.html (http://m.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/43553.html)
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: ppccopener on October 15, 2016, 08:50:07 PM
Miandad was the player I watched growing up, he was by far the best Pakistan batsman. Later on Mohammed yousef was the one I enjoyed watching bat.

As a slight aside Mohammed Sami visited our club no so long ago(a lot of Pakistan guys in my team) and saqlain mushtaq believe it or not played with us in a Sunday friendly. Didn't bowl but opened the batting(got runs!).

Fazal Mohammed also visited and spoke to our players at a dinner held at our club, lovely guy sad he passed away a couple of years ago.

He was hugely respected by our pak players although personally I did not know he played for Pakistan.

I gave him a lift back to his hotel after and we were chatting away about club cricket.

Very nice man indeed.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 16, 2016, 05:03:37 AM
Albeit Saeed Anwar's name is there but I find him to be pretty underrated amongst Pakistani folks.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Alvaro on October 16, 2016, 08:32:41 AM
Albeit Saeed Anwar's name is there but I find him to be pretty underrated amongst Pakistani folks.

Made runs in big matches...
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Alvaro on October 16, 2016, 08:38:08 AM
The shot at 4 mins 5 secs is perfect

https://youtu.be/t--X5o48jwE
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: 330Mark on October 17, 2016, 11:56:17 PM
as a bowler of unplayable balls Waqar was peerless...Wasim was consistent and hence, the better bowler. Both pick themselves with Akhtar a close 3rd.
Title: Re: Greatest Pakistan Test XI
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 18, 2016, 04:03:51 AM
The shot at 4 mins 5 secs is perfect

https://youtu.be/t--X5o48jwE

Insane, I wonder how he would fare if he were using modern bat!