Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: mo_town on February 06, 2017, 03:55:27 PM
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Hello,
I have come across quite a few posts on the forum where people have mentioned using a counter balance on the handle to improve the pickup of bats.
I acquired an SF LB last season. It was my first experience of using an LB blade and the feelings were mixed. For one, I felt that the stance improves quite a bit for a tall player when using an LB blade. But on the flip side, I somehow felt that the distribution of the weight caused the bat to pick up heavier for its weight. I want to experiment with adding some counter weight to see if that improves the pick up but wanted to understand a few things before.
Firstly, do counter balances really work? If yes, then whats the science behind it.
Secondly, whats the best way to add counter balances to a bat? Is wrapping golf tape on the top off the handle of the bat the best way to achieve it?
Any inputs would be really appreciated.
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Yes it works. I have two duck bill shaped bats that felt toe-heavy for their weight.
The counter-balance works by moving the balance-point of the bat higher so the bat _feels_ like it picks up lighter.
I use a rolled-up second grip which serves two purposes: 1. acts as a counter-balance; 2. keeps my top hand from sliding up the handle.
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If you want it to work, it will work.
If you're a non-beleiver it will not work.
I think it's very much a placebo effect personally, but others swear by it.
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For me it works up to a point - a bit of extra makes the bat pick up marginally lighter, too much and it just feels like you've added weight (funny that!)
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Yes it works. I have two duck bill shaped bats that felt toe-heavy for their weight.
Isn't the duckbill shape meant to improve the pick up? as there is no wood in the toe?
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Newbury did it years(years!) back. I believe it was called the counterbalance bat. Screw of the top of the handle and there were counter balance discs in there-if memory serves me right.
Newbury also developed a foam lightweight handle called C6 before it was outlawed so as a Company they were very progressive back-in-the-day.
personally I cannot see any benefit in a counter balanced handle, I think it's all in the mind.
A bit like if someone gives you, or you buy, a genuine pro's bat you think it will help you score runs-it simply wont.
each to their own thou, if you think it will work it probably does.
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Newbury did it years(years!) back. I believe it was called the counterbalance bat. Screw of the top of the handle and there were counter balance discs in there-if memory serves me right.
Newbury also developed a foam lightweight handle called C6 before it was outlawed so as a Company they were very progressive back-in-the-day.
Newbery's current bats are likely to have nails in the handles instead, if rumors are to be believed...
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Lot of mixed responses :). I guess it is something which one needs to try for themselves as there is no clear answer to the question. Any suggestions on what can be used to create the counter balance. A rolled up second grip sounds like a good idea but wouldnt there be a chance of it sliding etc?
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The search function isn't the best but there are already a lot of threads on this that answer your questions
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41162.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41162.0[/url])
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=26767.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=26767.0[/url])
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=15531.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=15531.0[/url])
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=35382.msg555418#msg555418[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=35382.msg555418#msg555418[/url])
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=37587.15[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=37587.15[/url])
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=37356.msg594813#msg594813[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=37356.msg594813#msg594813[/url])
Having had a bit of a play around I'd rather find a bat with the balance I like in the weight that feels right rather than bodge something on an existing bat but there are pros and non-pros alike who seem to be in to it. Buy some lead tape, add 50g to the top of the handle and give it a go. Alternatively, removing the toe guard will have a similar effect
Thanks for the links! Found them very useful. I will play around with Lead Tape and see how it goes.
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Isn't the duckbill shape meant to improve the pick up? as there is no wood in the toe?
My bats have 2.5 '' - 3'' of beak (for lack of a better term ) and then the low end of a very high spine. So, the bulk of the willow is in mid-low area of the bat which made it pick up heavier than other bats of the weight (2.11 - 2.12 range).
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Also, I do see some bats like the H4L which come with a counterbalance in the handle. Is that just an aesthetic design thing or to improve the pick up of the bats?
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I do t to all my bats as i like a super light pick up but don't want a thick heavy handle also not at the expense of less wood in the bat.also tried many materials including ball bearing inserts in the top of the handle but find strips of 2 inch lead flashing at the top of the handle works best the lead is held in place by electrical tape and cut grips also found for the same pickup I needed I had to use a lot of other materials which created to big of a knob at the top of the handle.
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Someone is putting LV inserts in the handle to weight them, but for the life of me I can't remember who...
I could google it, but where's the fun in that!
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The benefit of it as a counterbalance is dependent on its weight and distance from the fulcrum (your hands). As the counter balance would be so close to your hands the weight of it would have to be really quite substantial to make a noticeable difference, most people would struggle to notice a toe guard glued 30 inches from their hands, how would they feel something even 5 times a toe guard's weight 1inch from their hands? I think much of it is in the mind.
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Newbery Merlin is the one with LV.
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Whether it works or not is psychological, I think. I have used it twice, made a 2lbs 9 oz bat 2lbs 11 oz using lead tape , preparing it day before the match, was preoccupied all about it whilst batting. I ended up forgetting to watch the ball and got bowled for a low score. I gave up after that. I stuck to replicating comfort at the crease and establishing simple routine, rather than fiddling too much with the bat. If I had made a hundred with it, I would have stuck with it i guess.
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Also disappointed with lead tape found it made. Little difference due to ts thinness as an experiment once used a narrow strip of roofing lead taped around the top of the handle worked a treat.
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ABD uses one means there must be something to it. But as with any change done to ones bat, we cant judge its utility by how it affects our score in the next few games since many of us need some time to adjust to new bat/change to a bat. Only after trying out in few games/net sessions can we really know if it is something that will work going forward or not.
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Can anyone identify this knob-end? There seems to be quite a few players with this type o' thing
([url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2017/06/09/Pictures/celebrate-lanka-mathews-asela-gunaratne-after-angelo_fa08c2e2-4c81-11e7-88f6-6a3facb665a5.jpg[/url])
They're the fancy trackers being used to measure each players' bat speed - been pretty interesting to watch the results actually!
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its a bat sensor for the tourni
lets tv people see bat speed and other things
they use it to judge how well they have timed a ball I heard but not sure on the maths
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not sure there published but were coming up on screen during games
maybe a sky thing
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I just couldn't be bothered to think about it
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engineer by trade but its Friday buttie time so brain turn off now
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@DorsetDan - you asked if anyone could identify that knob end ?
- um , Aaron Finch ?
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engineer by trade but its Friday buttie time so brain turn off now
ask Dan what he does he a bit more precision than a engineer .
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ask Dan what he does he a bit more precision than a engineer .
Sou chef?
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ask Dan what he does he a bit more precision than a engineer .
Depends on the type of engineering mate ;) Some will fit a boiler and call themselves engineers, some actual engineers work to micron precision. Would actually be very interested to know accuracy though @DorsetDan ! /backontopic
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Depends on the type of engineering mate ;) Some will fit a boiler and call themselves engineers, some actual engineers work to micron precision. Would actually be very interested to know accuracy though @DorsetDan ! /backontopic
We have 2 quality engineers at work who can use a vernier so think they are engineers
Does that count?
I'm a poor Cnc engineer so not sure if that counts
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I can't find much information on these sensors but similar things that cost several thousands of £££ are not hugely accurate, especially for position and orientation. As I said, the clever stuff is trying to put together good looking data although it might not actually be "good" data if that makes sense?
I'd hazard a guess at not very accurate at all for big red bat knobs, but suspect the interest is in the comparisons between players rather than the raw data? Haven't been watching when it's got used really. I meant interesting to know your work related accuracy tbh ha.
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We have 2 quality engineers at work who can use a vernier so think they are engineers
Does that count?
I'm a poor Cnc engineer so not sure if that counts
This is CBF. IQ points are worthless here. The only currency of value is "Nerd Points"
No. Of Bats owned x Batting Average = Nerd Points.
If you want me back on topic, I don't think so, think it's all in the mind (And number of Nerd Points)
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Ok , medical engineers , 'proper' engineers , yada yada ... all good stuff . But this is cbf . Shouldn't we be talking Farokh Engineers ?
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Ok , medical engineers , 'proper' engineers , yada yada ... all good stuff . But this is cbf . Shouldn't we be talking Farokh Engineers ?
He was an engineer to be proud of
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We have 2 quality engineers at work who can use a vernier so think they are engineers
Does that count?
I'm a poor Cnc engineer so not sure if that counts
Very poor !!!
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This sort of explains it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tHmDz9A0hgw
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Right my bat handle split in nets. Bat was 2lb 10 and I felt the one weakness of the bat was a thin handle. I have had the handle replaced by a local guy who has set up to do bat repairs. Potential risk of course but saved on postage. So he had an old woodworm in the work shop and I asked for a similar oval style handle. When I showed to collect it the oval was very large. But the problem was the pick up it definitely wasn't picking up well. I asked him to weigh it and the bat was now 2lb 12oz. Clearly the balance has been affected. When I got home my first thought was to add an old grip to end of handle. This has imo made a difference but now I have a 2lb 14 oz bat. Considering I used a 2lb 5oz Harrow last year I better eat eggs for breakfast tomorrow morning! Be interested to see how I get on tomorrow with it.
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^ So, now you know why the handle was thin in the first place. ;)
Bats and handles, eventually, break. What matters is the quality of your experience when you go out to bat. With the additional grips, you have now a much heavier bat which could impact your timing. If I were you, I'd take the bat back to the repairer and ask him to shave the handle down to the old thin-ness to restore the old weight and balance. Good luck!
PS: I am not a fan of bat surgery. The original bat maker had his reasons for making the bat with certain weight, feel, and balance and I don't like messing with it. :)
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^ So, now you know why the handle was thin in the first place. ;)
Bats and handles, eventually, break. What matters is the quality of your experience when you go out to bat. With the additional grips, you have now a much heavier bat which could impact your timing. If I were you, I'd take the bat back to the repairer and ask him to shave the handle down to the old thin-ness to restore the old weight and balance. Good luck!
PS: I am not a fan of bat surgery. The original bat maker had his reasons for making the bat with certain weight, feel, and balance and I don't like messing with it. :)
Unfortunately the handle broke after 2 games and the third net. I would argue that the handle was thin to keep the dead weight down. It was sold on to me by another forumite and perhaps they also felt the original pick up was not quite right. I don't think the original pick up/balance was quite right either due to the handle. It has a cracking middle. You are right there are massive potential impacts on my game as I've never batted with anything as heavy. I also agree big risk to playing about with bat surgery. Hopefully game is on tomorrow and I get a bat and we will find out if it impacts on my batting.
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Game off today will have to wait until nets to try it out.
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Unfortunately the handle broke after 2 games and the third net. I would argue that the handle was thin to keep the dead weight down. It was sold on to me by another forumite and perhaps they also felt the original pick up was not quite right. I don't think the original pick up/balance was quite right either due to the handle. It has a cracking middle. You are right there are massive potential impacts on my game as I've never batted with anything as heavy. I also agree big risk to playing about with bat surgery. Hopefully game is on tomorrow and I get a bat and we will find out if it impacts on my batting.
One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....
This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.
The "feel" can be measured and given a number.
My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......
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One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....
This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.
The "feel" can be measured and given a number.
My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......
You are certainly more than an expert than me on this. The second grip I have half rolled down and left the other half rolled up at top of handle. The ordinal handle was thin and round the entire way. The new handle is think at bottom standard at top so I've added extra weight at top of handle.
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(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/thesecretvillagecricketer/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/75071E86-22C2-43D4-82EA-C6E24907347D_zpshjvohw5m.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/thesecretvillagecricketer/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/75071E86-22C2-43D4-82EA-C6E24907347D_zpshjvohw5m.jpg.html)
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I had a sponsored GM players bat in last year and they had drilled in down into the handle and inserted a hardwood dowel, I assume for counter balance.
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([url]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/thesecretvillagecricketer/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/75071E86-22C2-43D4-82EA-C6E24907347D_zpshjvohw5m.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s38.photobucket.com/user/thesecretvillagecricketer/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/75071E86-22C2-43D4-82EA-C6E24907347D_zpshjvohw5m.jpg.html[/url])
Don't take this the wrong way, but what is you average and highest score this season ? Genuine question as I have a therory related to your bat grip that may or may not help.
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I played two games with the original bat 102 and 51. Bat handle broke used old bat scored two. Have just netted with the bat in its current guise and couldn't hit the ball. Far too slow on it particularly my cut and pulls. The oval handle is definitely bigger than I wanted. The pick up and weight and balance now completely different.
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Ok so shocking with the 'counter balance' I removed it and hit a couple of buckets of throw downs. Was bit better. Wil net again Monday and see how I go.
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One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....
This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.
The "feel" can be measured and given a number.
My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......
I'm certainly far in the minority on this, but I think deadweight is a lot more important than pickup for horizontal bat shots. I have recently conducted an experiment with 2 of my bats, a 2lb 13 that picks up a few ounces lighter atleast and a 2lb 11 that feels a lot heavier than the 2lb 13. I've been coming late on all my shots with the heavier bat that picks up light.
The lighter bat, even though feels a lot heavier, results in much better timed shots.
Small sample size, take it for what it's worth.
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I'm certainly far in the minority on this, but I think deadweight is a lot more important than pickup for horizontal bat shots. I have recently conducted an experiment with 2 of my bats, a 2lb 13 that picks up a few ounces lighter atleast and a 2lb 11 that feels a lot heavier than the 2lb 13. I've been coming late on all my shots with the heavier bat that picks up light.
The lighter bat, even though feels a lot heavier, results in much better timed shots.
Small sample size, take it for what it's worth.
From my own experience with greater sample size of bats, I fully agree with this. However, we know bad pickup can make a bat feel heavier than its dead weight even in straight bat shots, so always prefer a bat at desired dead weight first and then look for good pickup, to get the best all round freedom to play.. Found it difficult to buy the "2-12 feels like 2-10" concept as it is clearly not feeling like 2-10 for all shots even though it might genuinely feel like 2-10 for drives..
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Ok so shocking with the 'counter balance' I removed it and hit a couple of buckets of throw downs. Was bit better. Wil net again Monday and see how I go.
Monday net not a lot better. Booked in to have handle altered on Wednesday evening going to carry out work on it while I'm there.
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My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......
Don't Know about the "resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change", I would welcome information like balance point, swing weight, actual weight i.e. wieght of the bat undressed (without grip, stickers, toe guard and scuff sheet).
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(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/thesecretvillagecricketer/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/0EA954CF-3342-4817-BE69-F80906B8C53F_zps2ybd7sgr.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/thesecretvillagecricketer/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/0EA954CF-3342-4817-BE69-F80906B8C53F_zps2ybd7sgr.jpg.html)
Here is the altered handle I've also changed the grip too. Due to a lot of players missing this weekend I'm playing and opening for 1s. Haven't played at that level before so should be fun! Might even get a bowl too.
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Was pretty sure the counter balance doesn't work, but then hit 7 sixes with my Merlin this weekend after having hit an entirety of 4 in the past 2 seasons combined. I'm guessing there is something to it after all.