Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Bats_Galore on February 22, 2017, 08:55:18 PM

Title: Heartwood?
Post by: Bats_Galore on February 22, 2017, 08:55:18 PM
I am seeing more and more pros using 1/2 and 1/2 coloured bats, and also saw the Johnny Bairstow video stating he prefers them for test cricket. For the batmakers and users what is the benefit?
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: tom line on February 22, 2017, 09:02:38 PM
It's more brittle, so if not looked after is likely to crack up quicker, it's also denser so will give you a heavier bat over a sapwood opponent, however if treated properly it looks after you as well as you look after it, the ball tends to fly off of heartwood a bit more and gives a lovely cracking sound when you hit the ball
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: GoldenArm on February 22, 2017, 09:19:16 PM
I had a Redback allegiance that was the reverse of what a lot of people like on their bats: all heartwood with a sliver of sapwood on the edge and the sound it made was the most satisfying of any bat I've ever owned.

(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b444/TopSpinCricket/IMG_0006.jpg) (http://s1044.photobucket.com/user/TopSpinCricket/media/IMG_0006.jpg.html)

(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b444/TopSpinCricket/IMG_0007.jpg) (http://s1044.photobucket.com/user/TopSpinCricket/media/IMG_0007.jpg.html)

This was the choice Gary gave me when I asked what he had back in 2009, it was a tough call! But mine was the one top left. Looked lovely when it was all cleaned up and finished, and only cost me £150! Happier bat buying days those were.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Biggie Smalls on February 22, 2017, 09:21:53 PM
Just splitting hairs here , but.....would a 50/50 two tone bat be ever so slightly lopsided , in terms of weight , if both sides were shaped to the same dimensions ? ( given that heartwood is denser / slightly heavier ).
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 22, 2017, 09:24:03 PM
It's more brittle, so if not looked after is likely to crack up quicker, it's also denser so will give you a heavier bat over a sapwood opponent, however if treated properly it looks after you as well as you look after it, the ball tends to fly off of heartwood a bit more and gives a lovely cracking sound when you hit the ball

It used to be the very popular but dropped out of favour as white wood sapwood became the willow to be seen with. Also a thin strip of heartwood on  the top edge of your bat  can help prevent damage caused by edgeing the ball  and  for  many it means there's no need for edge tape.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 22, 2017, 09:29:09 PM
Just splitting hairs here , but.....would a 50/50 two tone bat be ever so slightly lopsided , in terms of weight , if both sides were shaped to the same dimensions ? ( given that heartwood is denser / slightly heavier ).

Yes due to  a natural lack of sap.
Not to be confused with lack of sap due to over drying  to remove weight
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 22, 2017, 09:57:11 PM
It used to be the very popular but dropped out of favour as white wood sapwood became the willow to be seen with. Also a thin strip of heartwood on  the top edge of your bat  can help prevent damage caused by edgeing the ball  and  for  many it means there's no need for edge tape.

Really? I thought it would be more likely to crack as it's naturally more brittle than sapwood?

It's a preference thing but I prefer my heartwood (no more than 1/3rd of the blade) on the inside edge of the bat as that's where I tend to hit it most (I could also save weight by cutting a hole in the middle...)
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: JK Lewis on February 22, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
This is an excellent, very useful thread, thank you. There is a lot of heartwood in the willow I split up yesterday, so I will think carefully about this when I get to the sawmill.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 22, 2017, 10:17:56 PM
Really? I thought it would be more likely to crack as it's naturally more brittle than sapwood?

It's a preference thing but I prefer my heartwood (no more than 1/3rd of the blade) on the inside edge of the bat as that's where I tend to hit it most (I could also save weight by cutting a hole in the middle...)

Yes it can be brittle but as Tom as said its also denser and harder it used to be so popular very few wanted sapwood bats players preferred a bat that would last a few seasons
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on February 23, 2017, 01:33:38 AM
My b3 is all heartwood and a 358 cleft
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: JTtaylor145 on February 23, 2017, 07:44:57 AM
As stated earlier this is a trend that comes in and out of fashion. When we first started to see pro's using two toned willow as we called it back then we all wanted one. I've had excellent bats with plenty of heartwood and some others that were pure crud. It's all down to personal taste. I think there is some evidence to suggest performance is a more immediate with a two toned bat but durability is compromised a little. It's a good enough reason to have a bat in your collection with heartwood...just to experiment  :D
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: elmoog on February 23, 2017, 08:04:23 AM
i think i might of had the redback on the bottom right.
really nice bat, strangly with no difference in sound between the heartwood and sap wood
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Stuey on February 23, 2017, 08:39:57 AM
I'm not a fan of heartwood, I found it can split even if fully looked after. Might be fine for pros but not when spending my own cash.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: FattusCattus on February 23, 2017, 08:59:45 AM
I don't like heartwood at all. My preference would be for an all sapwood blade of uniform colour if possible.

I would like another Redback though!
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 23, 2017, 09:05:46 AM
As stated earlier this is a trend that comes in and out of fashion. When we first started to see pro's using two toned willow as we called it back then we all wanted one. I've had excellent bats with plenty of heartwood and some others that were pure crud. It's all down to personal taste. I think there is some evidence to suggest performance is a more immediate with a two toned bat but durability is compromised a little. It's a good enough reason to have a bat in your collection with heartwood...just to experiment  :D

It does come in and go out of fashion there was a time when when heartwood was so unpopular it was bleached white
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: elmoog on February 23, 2017, 09:23:30 AM
When the bat makers/bat company's buy the clefts is the hartwood seen as a blemish therefore down grading the cleft.
   
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Biggie Smalls on February 23, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
It does come in and go out of fashion there was a time when when heartwood was so unpopular it was bleached white


Hmmm .......kookaburra circa 1990's !
Whiter than me in winter !  :D
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 23, 2017, 11:34:20 AM

Hmmm .......kookaburra circa 1990's !
Whiter than me in winter !  :D
Yes I had one  they were whiter than a brides wedding dress.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Bwcc on March 05, 2017, 01:27:20 PM
When the bat makers/bat company's buy the clefts is the hartwood seen as a blemish therefore down grading the cleft.
 

If they're being honest then it should downgrade it slightly, you shouldn't really ever see a gn legend with heartwood (unless it's been asked for) if you look at someone like @hell4leather cricket they grade them so fairly you see bats that some brands would call grade 1/ grade 1+++++ they would call grade 2 because of it
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 01:54:31 PM
Why should heartwood downgrade at all?

JS Wright's grading system

Quote
A Grade 1 Blade
A Grade 1 is the best looking blade, though it will not necessarily play the best. There may be some red wood evident on the edge of the blade.  The grain on the face will be straight and there will be a minimum of 6 grains visible.  There may be the odd small knot or speck in the edge or back but the playing area should be clean.

A Grade 2 Blade
A Grade 2 blade is also very good quality and normally a larger amount of red wood can be seen on the edge of a blade, this has no effect on the playing ability of the bat it is purely cosmetic. Again there will be at least 6 straight grains on the face of the blade with maybe some blemishes, pin knots or “speck” visible, we also put the top 2% of the excellent quality butterfly blades that we get into Grade 2.

A Grade 3 Blade
This is  a middle grade that is produced in much higher numbers than the top grades and it offers very good value for money. A Grade 3 Blade has up to half colour across the blade which again has no direct relation to the playing ability of the wood, it just has less visual attraction. There will be a minimum of 5 grains on the face of the blade which may not always be perfectly straight. Again some small knots or butterfly stain may be present with sometimes more prominent “speck”.

A Grade 4 Blade
A Grade 4 Blade is normally over half colour or contains butterfly stain (see our page on Imperfections in Willow). It will still play as well as the other grades. Any number of grains are possible with often only 4 grains, the willow containing ‘butterfly’ stain is very strong, there could also be more “speck” and other faults.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Loc1215 on March 05, 2017, 02:05:04 PM
Does that mean that a pros 50/50 bat is technically a grade 3?As the JS Wright grading system states that a grade 2 must only have heartwood on the edge .
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Bwcc on March 05, 2017, 02:06:32 PM
@WalkingWicket37 generally speaking look at the highest grade bats you won't see many with heartwood
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: procricket on March 05, 2017, 02:09:58 PM
the best hheartwood clefts normally gome from grade 3/4 and of course the pro do always use grade 1
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
Does that mean that a pros 50/50 bat is technically a grade 3?As the JS Wright grading system states that a grade 2 must only have heartwood on the edge .

By JS Wright's grading system yes.
But there isn't a set standard for grading, so each brand can call whatever they like "Grade 1"
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Loc1215 on March 05, 2017, 02:21:42 PM
By JS Wright's grading system yes.
But there isn't a set standard for grading, so each brand can call whatever they like "Grade 1"

That's why buying a bat is a messy business .I know someone with two legends both half heartwood so one brand can call it super grade 1+++ and charge £600 whilst other willow suppliers will grade it a grade 3 .
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 02:39:39 PM
@WalkingWicket37 generally speaking look at the highest grade bats you won't see many with heartwood



([url]http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/JT77145/unnamed%2011_zpsfzohubvr.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/JT77145/media/unnamed%2011_zpsfzohubvr.jpg.html[/url])


 ;)
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: tom line on March 05, 2017, 02:51:10 PM
Gray nics grow and cut their own willow though, so they are free to grade however they want and choose whatever specs they like for what makes each cleft that grade
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 02:52:55 PM
Gray nics grow and cut their own willow though, so they are free to grade however they want and choose whatever specs they like for what makes each cleft that grade

I asume all the bedroom brands with two or three different types of Grade 1 must all grow and cut their own willow too then?  ;)
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: procricket on March 05, 2017, 02:54:21 PM
Gray nics grow and cut their own willow though, so they are free to grade however they want and choose whatever specs they like for what makes each cleft that grade

most companies grade there own willow no matter what they receive from JS Wrights in terms of there grading.

Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Northern monkey on March 05, 2017, 03:05:16 PM
Used to be so much simple in the old days
Grade one or two
Most off the shelf bats performed amazing with a bit of knocking etc.
It's got to the point nowadays, I've gotta inspect the cleft/moisture content/sharpness of draw knife etc etc

Only joking, bats nowadays are all wonderful
And all bat supplier/makers are honest and hardworking, and would never bleach/disguise/mislead eager buyers
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 05, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
most companies grade there own willow no matter what they receive from JS Wrights in terms of there grading.
yes regardless of  how  the willow merchants grade the clefts.
Beat me to it Dave
 Along with  whats been mentioned You can throw finish and ping in there.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: procricket on March 05, 2017, 04:26:17 PM
Used to be so much simple in the old days
Grade one or two
Most off the shelf bats performed amazing with a bit of knocking etc.
It's got to the point nowadays, I've gotta inspect the cleft/moisture content/sharpness of draw knife etc etc

Only joking, bats nowadays are all wonderful
And all bat supplier/makers are honest and hardworking, and would never bleach/disguise/mislead eager buyers

bats a bat if you can use it you can use it..

in truth some pro bats are bleached
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 04:49:02 PM
bats a bat if you can use it you can use it..

in truth some pro bats are bleached

I'll swap you a sports direct plank for your Taylor bat, Dave.
As you say "a bats a bat"  ;)
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: procricket on March 05, 2017, 04:54:53 PM
I'll swap you a sports direct plank for your Taylor bat, Dave.
As you say "a bats a bat"  ;)

ok I will play no disrespect mate but would taylor bat score YOU more runs than a sports direct special.

IF YOU WANT TO BORROW IT YOU ONLY HAVE TO ASK....

said it before 90 per cent of all bats play the same no matter grain or heartwood density the lot. like a good theory though and love a interesting bat with history.

Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2017, 05:03:10 PM
ok I will play no disrespect mate but would taylor bat score YOU more runs than a sports direct special.

IF YOU WANT TO BORROW IT YOU ONLY HAVE TO ASK....

said it before 90 per cent of all bats play the same no matter grain or heartwood density the lot. like a good theory though and love a interesting bat with history.

I honestly think it would, with a bat that good I might even hit the odd one off the square! (I can dream...)

And I'd love to borrow it, but I'd hate it at the same time. I'd be scared to use a bat that special, as I'd be mortified if it broke while in my possession
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: procricket on March 05, 2017, 05:04:12 PM
I honestly think it would, with a bat that good I might even hit the odd one off the square! (I can dream...)

And I'd love to borrow it, but I'd hate it at the same time. I'd be scared to use a bat that special, as I'd be mortified if it broke while in my possession

I have better bats with better pick up than that one it just got a history mate.

I have taken it easy with it in the winter nets I may retire it end of this season if it lasts and get it in a box...

bats have never score the runs, people do

in truth performance should be a given with most bats from the forum pick and feel should be higher up the order of priority
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on March 05, 2017, 08:44:57 PM
Personally love a even strip of heartwood on my bats and never really had any issue with them being more brittle, the only exception is my new GM Chrome the outside edge is heartwood and even with GM ready now knocking in plus the 3 hours knocking in its had its cracked in 2 places already.
Only light service cracks but will need some TLC soon I reckon.

Like most things heartwood is purely down to personal choice I wouldn't wind a top end bat having heartwood as long as it's an even amount and grains continue to run straight threw it.
Title: Re: Heartwood?
Post by: Biggie Smalls on March 06, 2017, 02:37:04 AM
I have a jpg and a sf that are both two thirds heartwood . Both are still big bats for the weight ....perhaps they are somehow lower density heartwood ? Either way , both go like trampolines , but both got light edge cracking during knocking in /playing in process , even though i babied them them tlc . So , yeah , perhaps they are more brittle , to a degree , but they tend to play well , so long as you don't mind them not having that soft feel .