Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: iand123 on August 08, 2017, 07:58:22 AM
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With this starting next week thought we'd open a new thread.
Think anyone will get rested? Would be good to see Woakes get some cricket. Looking forward to the day night test.
WI look to have really struggled against a weakened Kent side. Weather permitting think England should win this 3-0
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This 'rest' stuff that people keep going on about is absolute drivel
Don't see the team changing besides an opener, get the impression Ballance and Woakes aren't fit for Edgbaston.
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I know it's been discussed tot he ends of time and back but I think we should go in with:
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Roland-jones or woakes
Broad
Anderson
If we are 2-0 up rest one of broad or jimmy for woakes if fit and play both woakes and trj
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I read this morning that Jennings will be given another go?! No Hales due to wanting to be in the middle order, and no Hameed as they don't want him to fail... Really?
Also Crane is training with them, taking a look apparently...
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Also Crane is training with them, taking a look apparently...
Unless they rest Ali i cant see a pitch that two spinners would immediately call for. That being said they may need two spinners for Sydney at the very least so makes sense to have a look now rather than throw him in in that game
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Established players apart if any of the English guys fail against the Windies test side no way should they be considered for Oz. Also not convinced it tells you much if they score big hundreds and take wickets.
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Gut feeling England will give Jennings another go.....they seem to think he has the temperament for test cricket but with some technical faults. He is getting out the same way which to me is not as bad as getting out different ways if you see what I mean.
If he is to stay in they could do a lot worse than so,e time spent with trescothick before the series, they have similar styles and I don't see why England coaching cannot go outside the norm for advice.
Hameed they clearly think is a diamond long term and they may well be right.
Tricky selection now as time has been invested in Jennings, stoneman clearly a good player but he's not outstanding.
He may deserve a go but if Hameed and Jennings being younger are better long term bets do they invest more in those?
Hard call I think to make.
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I think they will pretty much stay the same. Probably try to get Wood in for a game to keep him in the loop. I'm not sure why anyone would need a rest unless they had a niggle. There are 2 months between the final day of the test and the first warm up game in Oz.
Hameed is meant to be suspect against the short ball so maybe missing this winter (or travelling as a spare) would give him more time to sort out a game plan against it without destroying his confidence at the highest level.
I'd go with, when fit:
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes/Wood/Roland-Jones
Broad
Anderson
Hales has proven he can stick around when it is tough, he just isn't quite good enough to do it first up, but also he can smash it when it isn't tough. Isn't he a better version of Malan?
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For the final test or two ecb should pick the side they want to play in oz. For me that should be :
cook
hameed
root
westley
hales
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
roland jones
broad
if you play jennings in oz he will get destroyed. same for ballance and a few other fringe players.
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For the final test or two ecb should pick the side they want to play in oz. For me that should be :
cook
hameed
root
westley
hales
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
roland jones
broad
if you play jennings in oz he will get destroyed. same for ballance and a few other fringe players.
Would you really leave Jimmy A out if he's fit?
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Give Hameed some time or you'll destroy him.
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There is not another round of championship games until the end of August. This really does not help!
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For me, Jennings has some serious technical issues to sort out - get him out and get him worked on!
Hameed needs to get some more experience and really toughen up - the Aussies will chew him up and give him serious stick! He needs time!!
I say get Stoneman in. I realise one or two people have said that the Windies haven't got the same bowling attack as the Aussies, but you can watch a batsman and tell if he has a decent technique or not! If they can't look at a batsman and tell what needs working on within 10 minutes, then they shouldn't be anywhere near the England Coaching Team!! I would look at......
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
If anyone has a niggle or needs a rest then bring someone else in! The thought of Hales on decent form slotting in at 5 is a little exciting with Stokes, Bairstow and Ali to follow!! :o
Thinking ahead to Winter, I would also take Hameed, Ballance, Robson, TRJ, Ball, Woods, Crane, Buttler. Unsure how many squad players we normally take to the Ashes?
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I agree with Pete,I say bring Hales in at 5 for Malan.Malan had been picked on his one day form,in that case,surely it has to be Hales. Hales has had a taste of test cricket,a tough one opening the batting.You would like to think he has reflected on it and improved the areas that needed improving ie. outside off stump. Westley has an area of concern,but he too has recognised this and is working hard to improve it.I hope one of the 3 tests is a Bunsen as they will take a third spinner to aus- I would like to see Crane given a go,and the fact we bat so deep means we should give him a go,as an out and out spinner not a bits and pieces like Dawson.
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For all those thinking about team selection. Would you give a debut to someone at a day night game when the ball will hoop round corners
Having said that, personally I would be tempted with
Stoneman at 2, Hales at 3 then westley at 5. Plus the rest. Woakes wont be picked until the third test to build up fitness in county cricket.
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Stoneman went past 1000 county runs today. Watch him be ignored.
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What would you do with Jennings Buzz? Because he has been getting out the same way it should be easier to sort out the technical issues.
I'm not sure or not myself he is going to be long term myself, I do know he's clearly not rubbish and England like his attitude....and that's a big part of the game.
Most have him missing out for selection in the press..
And another thing :). Jennings and trescothick have similar techniques to my inexpert eye..I don't remember Marcus getting out half forward in the slips many times thru his career...and he def did not get his foot to the pitch of the ball...
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Graeme Smith did a good bit of analysis on Jennings. He has 2 issues.
1 his hands are tucked into his hips on his backlift and he need to push them back towards the keeper/slips.
A backlift should really be a back push, to free his hands and help them move better.
2. He is super stiff. Part if that for me is because he is sitting on his heals. Get up more on the balls of his feet amd flex those knees more to free himself up. I hate to say it, but he may need a trigger (argh).
Once he has those sorted he needs to work on head position and aligning his eyes better to the line of the ball.
Stoneman has better technique and is brilliant against the short ball, so should get a go in my view.
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Hameed/stoneman should be given a go. I don't really mind which of the two it is but they can't select Jennings even in the innings where he got more than 15 he seemed to have a couple of lives early on.
Also thinking ahead to Australia will we need that extra batsman at 5? I feel like we will need a bit of X factor with the ball on flatter pitches, someone like wood or a leg spinners like crane/rashid fits the bill for me.
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Thinking ahead to Winter, I would also take Hameed, Ballance, Robson, TRJ, Ball, Woods, Crane, Buttler. Unsure how many squad players we normally take to the Ashes?
Squad is traditionally 16, sometimes 17?
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Would you really leave Jimmy A out if he's fit?
Yep.
Anderson has a meh record in oz and woakes offers a bit more pace , bounce , and he can make runs ( lower order runs will be vital ) . Put it this way , as an aussie , when the ecb pick anderson I'll be happy .
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Yep.
Anderson has a meh record in oz and woakes offers a bit more pace , bounce , and he can make runs ( lower order runs will be vital ) . Put it this way , as an aussie , when the ecb pick anderson I'll be happy .
Perhaps you could pick Anderson for Adelaide /day-night test as an extra swing bowler , but thats as far as I'd go.
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Perhaps you could pick Anderson for Adelaide /day-night test as an extra swing bowler , but thats as far as I'd go.
England need a fit and firing Jimmy in Oz he has had success there also he will probably play the first WI test only
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Anyone else reckon when england bat first we shall see a 3 day test match.
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We might do yes..I remember a 3 day game at edgebaston when the first ball of the match went miles over the keeper and it was over before lunch on day 3 I think
Worst thing England can do is be complacent...from what I can see at least 2 places in the team are up for grabs
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England need a fit and firing Jimmy in Oz he has had success there also he will probably play the first WI test only
He's hardly had success there has he?
He's taken 43 wickets at 38.44 which isnt great, and those figures are flattered by the series England won!
He did get a world record in Australia though, most runs conceded from 1 over in a Test...
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Who on the circuit has a good record in Australia besides them? I can't be bothered going through Cricinfo against the current top 10 test bowlers, looking at the list I suspect they'll all be around the mid-30s.
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Stoneman went past 1000 county runs today. Watch him be ignored.
Lyth had 2 stellar seasons of run scoring behind him when he was picked for England.
I really don't see the point in more new caps. Tough on Stoneman perhaps, but I'm not confident he will staunch the bleeding.
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We're still in the same position we were at the start of the season really - we know that Cook, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Anderson and Broad are seven of our best side and suspect that Woakes is the eighth. We know furthermore that we have decent reserves in the seam department - TRJ, Ball, Plunkett, Wood and a few untried names - and that we have two back up keepers who won't let us down in Buttler and Foakes.
What we don't have is three of a top five or reserve batsmen. And of the four tried thus far only Wesley gives any real confidence in his future (though I thought Ballance was probably not as bad as most made out and still have some confidence in Malan). As opener, whoever starts the West Indies series has to be given the Ashes as well, so now is probably the time to shed Jennings - preference would be to see how Stoneman does, but figure it'll probably be Hameed. I'd like to see Hales given a go at five too.
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A lot of the press are tipping Hales to come back
Bayliss likes one day players in the team and he may have an influence.
It's a pointless argument but I can't help wondering if jos butler had been left in the side a year ago whether he would of done well....we are never going to know I don't think
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Jos Buttler is to the red ball as water is to oil, PPCC
Hales could be fun.
I am looking forward to seeing Alzarri Joseph bowl on more helpful pitches too.
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He's hardly had success there has he?
He's taken 43 wickets at 38.44 which isnt great, and those figures are flattered by the series England won!
He did get a world record in Australia though, most runs conceded from 1 over in a Test...
Yes 87 wickets against Aus 43 in OZ would have thought was okay.
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Maybe a little harsh to judge Anderson's Aus record. Did he play in both whitewashes where our batting didn't give the bowlers much to work with?
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We might do yes..I remember a 3 day game at edgebaston when the first ball of the match went miles over the keeper and it was over before lunch on day 3 I think
Worst thing England can do is be complacent...from what I can see at least 2 places in the team are up for grabs
Saw that one remember seeing Curtly Ambroses face after that first ball
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKE3Uh6Eng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKE3Uh6Eng)
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Stoneman in.mason crane in
If buzz is right and stoneman is a better player of the short stuff it's a big chance to get on the oz tour
Don't know much about crane but a good series to start in
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(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah106/alexhill11/C2D70E63-1BAB-4ED5-B319-75720084C96E_zps6kwrlg7c.png) (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/alexhill11/media/C2D70E63-1BAB-4ED5-B319-75720084C96E_zps6kwrlg7c.png.html)
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hope stoneman can cement his place,
isnt crane the chap who was the first overseas for NSW last winter? this must be a sign hes on the plane to aus? although guessing what our selectors will do is never simple!
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Stoneman seems to have the technical skill - just hope he proves to have the mental temperament too! :D
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THE SELECTORS DID THE RIGHT THING
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If they are hoping to look at Stoneman, Crane and get Woakes some match time, they may need to rest Ali and one of the seamers?
I am assuming they will play Malan at 5 to give him a decent run, in which case they can't move Bairstow up to 5 and free up a space for Crane.
Therefore I suspect they will play:
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Broad/TRJ
Anderson/TRJ
Crane
As much as I love watching Ali, we have Root, Westley and Malan who can all bowl spin. So if you are going to take a look at Crane in an International then no point in playing Ali as well. Plus we can't play Malan, Crane and Ali unless we only play 3 seamers!
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Pete you have just dropped our in form, player of the series winning spinner batsman for a colt.
Crane won't play, they are just having a look at him.
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I suspect the intention is for Crane to "get used" to being a squad member, with a view to maybe making his debut in the Lords game if we are 2-0 clear. Its an odd selection - harsh as hell on Rashid - but the selectors seem to have seen something in him they like.
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Crane will play instead of Malan, If he plays. But probably not likely that he will.
Surprised he's jumped ahead of Rashid.
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I'd have thought hales at 5 must have crossed there minds as in stunning form
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I'd have thought hales at 5 must have crossed there minds as in stunning form
Agree.
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I wonder if malan fails in the first 2 they'll call him up @roco
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Most of the time now England give a few games...Bayliss says better 'one game too many than one too few'
I don't think Malan is the right choice myself but he has to be given a go.
Mixed feelings about Jennings ...I know a lot on here(we are not experts but it's good to debate) don't think he is good enough....I'm not sure myself but think England did not want to drop him against a lesser team than SA
He is a young player with potential, most important England think he has the temperament, as does Hameed.
The selectors have a thankless task sometimes, we are using a lot of players in recent years.
I hope Stoneman does well he is more experienced but no one knows if he can step up.runs in the 1st division is a good a good start.
Don't know what to make of the spinner situation...Rashid been dumped, Dawson did not have enough of a chance-is he good enough? Don't know maybe not.
Personally I think we should go backwards a bit, if we only have one spinner good enough then only pick one, if it's turning a part timer has to bowl as well(root/Malan/westley?..
Despite all this we have just beaten the number 3 ranked team in the world 3-1.
Are we scared of Australia? NO !! :)
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I'd have thought hales at 5 must have crossed there minds as in stunning form
They know what he can do and how he is in the squad environment. He doesn't need to bat 5 vs WI to get on he plans to Aus. Think they'd rather give Malan more of a go to see if he can cut it at this level.
Hales will probably be given time at Notts to continue his form and be one of the 16 as cover for both opener and no 5 bat.
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Dom Bess is unlucky.
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Dom Bess is unlucky.
Plays for the wrong county!!! Would have a chance if he played elsewhere, same goes for Craig Overton.
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Dom Bess is unlucky.
35 first-class wickets gets a spinner close to an England cap now? Wow!
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@Bats_Entertainment compare his stats to Mason Crane.
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@Bats_Entertainment compare his stats to Mason Crane.
Yes, but Mason's selection is itself a sign of the times. And he's a leg-spinner.
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and Bess - as good as I thinkhe may eventually be - is bowling mos of his overs at Taunterabad......
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I wonder what the odds are of Stokes, Anderson, Broad or Roland-Jones having "a slight strain that they don't want to risk" to accommodate the return of Woakes?
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Can't see RoJo giving up the chance to keep bowling at the moment!
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Against the WI Perfect oppotuinity for England batsman to score big runs and the bowlers take five fors non established players who fail to impress shouldn't be considered for OZ
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Against the WI Perfect oppotuinity for England batsman to score big runs and the bowlers take five fors non established players who fail to impress shouldn't be considered for OZ
I'm not sure the WI are as weak as they're made out to be, still a few holes in their side means they shouldn't threaten England for the series but they've just quietly been rebuilding their test side recently, some good players in there.
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I'm not sure the WI are as weak as they're made out to be, still a few holes in their side means they shouldn't threaten England for the series but they've just quietly been rebuilding their test side recently, some good players in there.
I agree that they are not quite as strong as other International teams - but as edge says, they have some decent players in there who can take wickets and hit runs!
So although it shouldn't be the same challenge as SA posed with their excellent bowling, they will still be capable.
But agree that they are unlikely to have the same opportunity to shine again as sterner challenges are around the corner!!
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXxAnUXUAAUSjx.jpg:large)
I'm actually quite excited about this, purely because of the whole 'unknown' factor and we've no real idea about how the Dukes is going to behave. Suspect you'd still wanna have a bat first and see how it goes
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I may or may not have decided to take a late lunch and watch the first 30 mins of play on the tablet. Especially if we bowl first
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Bit of rain around looking at the forecast for the duration of the test. Typical British summer!
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Well - actually Woakes doesn't feel that he has had enough bowling under his belt so will not play according to Root.
So Cook, Stoneman, Westley, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, TRJ, Broad, Anderson.
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Heading down to the beach bar to watch the opening session - it's the only place with sky sports - tough gig
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Harmy style https://streamable.com/esnet
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Interesting to see that Roach was bowling cross seam in the first over, will still be interested to see how long the pink ball will swing for especially when Jimmy gets his hands on it
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It's definitely flying off the bat seems anything outside the ring is four
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And so it continues
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These games are great if you like supper rather than lunch
And if your out early doors you can get really stuck into a pie about 8 o'clock
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Looked like a bit of nut, shame as he looked very positive before that
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30-1 after 5 overs. This feels weird.
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Anybody using anything different to ESPN that automatically updates rather than having to refresh all the time?
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Anybody using anything different to ESPN that automatically updates rather than having to refresh all the time?
I normally follow the Skysports websites live updates as you get clips of the wickets and 50s or 100s when they happen
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/4323#overview (https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/4323#overview)
This is the best for me. Cricinfo is utter (No Swearing Please) since the redesign
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Oh dear.Our top order woes continue.
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Gave that in real time. Looked very out.
I'd make a world class international umpire but don't really like working weekends or too much travelling.
But if they ever need someone to do Thursday and Friday and fifth days (uk only) I'm available.
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Are you Peter Willey?
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Oh dear.Our top order woes continue.
too be fair to stoneman that was a cracking delivery!
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Next test, I vote we pick Cook twice.
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Can't see it but BBC txt says stoneman did get a good one
Cook still to be batting at midnight in the moonlight
That's a song I think :)
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Stoneman's was pretty sharp
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For me Westleys dismissal is far worse. He really shouldn't be missing that, it didn't do much and is a strength area for him.
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Next test, I vote we pick Cook twice.
If we do that wont that make cook susceptible to the curse? currently hes the only one immune dont risk it!
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Can't remember a test recently when cook and root, one or the other, did not get the runs for us!
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Blimey! One decent swinging ball at decent pace and perfect length which got Stoneman and it sounds like he is already being written off?
Give him a bit of time to see how he goes!
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Tell you what though. How much do I love getting home from work to find there's still 4 hours of cricket left!
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Is that root going to 50 in 11 consecutive games?
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Well - actually Woakes doesn't feel that he has had enough bowling under his belt so will not play according to Root.
So Cook, Stoneman, Westley, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, TRJ, Broad, Anderson.
Unless there's fitness issues
You would think against this windies team it would be a great opportunity for big runs and wickets and players would be chomping at the bit to play.
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Is that root going to 50 in 11 consecutive games?
Yep he needs 12 to equal the record
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Yep he needs 12 to equal the record
very poor conversion though.. quite surprising. think he has the worst 50 to 100 conversion rate amongst the world's top batsmen.
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So many pies on show
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I've spent the day sat in the Eric Hollies - can only feel for Stoneman, would go as far as saying our current overseas would be a better option than half these Windies 😂😂
Pedestrian bowing at best. Who doesn't love to face a 75mph full toss?
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Cook needs a bit of grip grip on his bat
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Good man, Cook! Break those records!!! All of them.
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I was a massive sceptic, but this day/night stuff is fantastic. Can't remember the last time I heard an athmosphere like it since 2005 (Oval and Cardiff '09 aside)
Can you imagine an Ashes test in Birmingham, under lights? Top stuff
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Interesting to see Toby Roland jones is now wearing Kookaburra softs so assume he will have Kookaburra stickers on his bat - moving from Newbury after one test lol
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I was a massive sceptic, but this day/night stuff is fantastic. Can't remember the last time I heard an athmosphere like it since 2005 (Oval and Cardiff '09 aside)
Can you imagine an Ashes test in Birmingham, under lights? Top stuff
Yes...ideally I think as a fan you would want more songs than we are hearing at the moment thou :)
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150 for Cook.
Trying to think of amor important opener since I've been seriously watching cricket(81 ashes)
I don't think I can.Gooch was brilliant but as far as underpinning the team over a long period....well could be an interesting debate on another thread one day
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150 for Cook.
Trying to think of amor important opener since I've been seriously watching cricket(81 ashes)
I don't think I can.Gooch was brilliant but as far as underpinning the team over a long period....well could be an interesting debate on another thread one day
I would agree
But I feel Atherton in another era would have been up there too
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150 for Cook.
Trying to think of amor important opener since I've been seriously watching cricket(81 ashes)
I don't think I can.Gooch was brilliant but as far as underpinning the team over a long period....well could be an interesting debate on another thread one day
Geoffery Boycott
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I love test cricket
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I would agree
But I feel Atherton in another era would have been up there too
Atherton had to open against...
Donald and Pollock
Walsh and Ambrose
McGrath and Lee
Shoiab and wasim and Waqar
Shrinath and Prasad
Looking at that and you can't help but agree...
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Couldnt be more excited about my day at the test tomorrow. Atmosphere looked even better than normal, which i didnt think was possible. I half wish ididnt have to go into work in the morning so i could have a decent lie in for the perfect days. Even better if i didnt have to win saturday to guarantee promotion.
There will be some states in Moseley after though!
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Atherton had to open against...
Donald and Pollock
Walsh and Ambrose
McGrath and Lee
Shoiab and wasim and Waqar
Shrinath and Prasad
Looking at that and you can't help but agree...
Looking at that lot, I'd take up golf! Rather than walk out and face them!
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Atherton had to open against...
Donald and Pollock
Walsh and Ambrose
McGrath and Lee
Shoiab and wasim and Waqar
Shrinath and Prasad
Looking at that and you can't help but agree...
you can add Marshall , Paterson , Gillespie , Bond , and others to that list aswell.
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just curious. .. are they using a kook or dukes pink ball ?
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Dukes
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Dukes
If it goes well , hopefully oz will be forced to use it in day night tests too , and it could eb a catalyst for us using dukes full time .
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Athers was one of my most admired openers for England, you could well argue his average would be 5-10 more in today's era
Anyone who stands up to pattrick Patterson on a glass top in Jamaica can only be revered
Same tour that one goochie had his hand broken
Simply frightening fast bowling
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Athers was one of my most admired openers for England, you could well argue his average would be 5-10 more in today's era
Anyone who stands up to pattrick Patterson on a glass top in Jamaica can only be revered
Same tour that one goochie had his hand broken
Simply frightening fast bowling
My childhood batting hero . I could have looked up to Slater or another aussie , but it was Athers for me !
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Here now and I'm struggling to pick up the ball on the pitch
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I couldn't see the red ball at the Oval.
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You actually watch the cricket when you go to the cricket?
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Obviously I guess its training your eye, but off this half hour its nigh on impossible
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Is this the series (bowling attack) that we'll see Cook finally get that 300 that's eluded him up to now?
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Is this the series (bowling attack) that we'll see Cook finally get that 300 that's eluded him up to now?
Probably
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Windies truly out of their depth!
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200 for Cook!!!
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Better check Ancestry.com to see if I've got a West Indian Grandmother.
I've not been picked this week, but my off-spin filth might be appreciated at Edgbaston?
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Miss-field to get to 200.
Kind of sums it up really. I grew up watching Windies cricket in the early 90's and up to the Noughties. This is just bloody tragic
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Fun fact, there is an Island named after a pirate ancestor of mine I could try and get in with :D (first land sighted by Columbus if you want to guess :) )
Watling Island .
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How many can cook get? 300? 400?
Surely the best chance to break a few records...
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Athers was one of my most admired openers for England, you could well argue his average would be 5-10 more in today's era
Anyone who stands up to pattrick Patterson on a glass top in Jamaica can only be revered
Same tour that one goochie had his hand broken
Simply frightening fast bowling
Patterson made his most dramatic impact on the 85/86 blackwash tour. There's a really good, quite evocative, article on the guardian website about the 1st test at Jamaica, "the scariest test England ever played", with reflections from many of the England protagonists. Goochie said it was the only time he was ever frightened - they reckoned the pitch was actually worse than the one for the infamous abandoned Sabina test in 97/98. I'd post a link if I could but it's not hard to find and well worth a read.
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That pink ball is swinging!
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Nice to see a MIDS bat in the middle.
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has anyone ever seen Roston Chase and Dave Chappelle in the same room ?
.....perhaps @rickjames ?
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Anyone watching Sussex Essex, Evans' 'Adidas' bat is absolutely massive!!!!!
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So yeah, even under lights the ball was incredibly hard to pick up. Interested to see how other people fared, from my angle I was just watching blokes having an invisabke swing at anything
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Some of the commentators on BBC not picking it up either
Innovation and getting maybe a new audience to watch is great idea.
Personally I think night cricket is better with black screen and a white ball,coloured clothing obviously too
So that would mean 20/20 most,y evening games because not everyone wants to spend a whole day watching a test match.
Hopefully there 3 forms of cricket still going forward to cater for all. The one day cup seemed to have decent crowds this year.
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So yeah, even under lights the ball was incredibly hard to pick up. Interested to see how other people fared, from my angle I was just watching blokes having an invisabke swing at anything
I was in block 28 in the hollies stand band thought it was ok and could see it fine all round the ground
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Around the ground was fine, but release point for me in the Barnes Upper was seriously difficult
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I found it ok, I wonder if being more side on helped though, would be interesting to sit more behind the bowlers arm and see
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This is interesting hearing peoples difficulty picking up the pink ball, spectators at the ground , commentators , tv viewers , the lot .
As much as i hate kook balls , in oz during the pink tests the overwhelming majority of people ive spoken to who have been to the ground , tv viewers etc , all found the pink kook ball a delight re picking it up /seeing it easily .
Either dukes ball has some ways to go , colour improvement wise , or something to do with English conditions makes it more difficult to see ( twilight for so much longer perhaps ?) , or a combination of the two .
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I don't know if my eyes have adjusted or if sky did something but I only had issues picking it up in the first session of the game and dont have any issues now.
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I was behind the bowlers arm and had no issues picking the ball up all day.
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This is just depressing to watch
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Anyone know why sky haven't broadcast in UHD in this game?
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It's been so terrible it doesn't deserve it
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County Div 2 sides stronger than this WI side at the mo.
Such a sorry site to see such a poor contest between two sides.
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So hollow
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Windies are an embarrassment, however pink ball seemed to hold up well.
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Next test England should rest most of there established players and give the fringe guys a go it won't prove that they are good enough for Oz if they are successful but will tell you plenty if they fail
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Whoever tells broad he is resting next match could have the job from hell on his hands!
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Whoever tells broad he is resting next match could have the job from hell on his hands!
Maybe someone from the ECB should tell him they don't want another three day test.
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Two months between this test series and the ashes. There is no way Broad and Anderson will want to miss out on some cheap test wickets
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Yes exactly, Anderson is not far off 500 wickets and that puts him as an all time great despite the doubters :)
It's the batting that's the worry. Jake ball, wood,TRJ, stokes,Woakes,broad,Jimmy plus there's some other seamers as well.Finn does not get a mention these days...
We got plenty of bowling for Australia....
As as fan my only hope is one of Stoneman, Malan or westley grabs it and we find one batter from this summer.
And I didn't think I'd be posting this but I think it's going to be dawid Malan.
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Two months between this test series and the ashes. There is no way Broad and Anderson will want to miss out on some cheap test wickets
Especially as they only play red ball cricket for england, i'd let them play both games and then tell them to rest up before the winter
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In reality there is no real need to rest any pace bowlers. Woakes has more than proved himself to be excellent with the ball which all changed when he added 5mph onto his pace! He is also more than useful with the bat! So his place is secured in the Ashes squad. No issues if they give TRJ a decent run for the rest of the Windies series.
Also I can't see them realistically looking at any other batsmen this late on either as they need to give Stoneman, Westley and Malan a run to see how they bed in. Malan has shown he can play a bit although I am not convinced that he was ever the best man for the job at number 5?
Westley has shown that he has a reasonable base technique that he can work on and I'm sure the coaches are trying to help him to grove his technique - but he now needs to go on and prove he can hit runs and bat for long periods of time in a match! And Stoneman? Hopefully get to see more of him in the next few Test matches.
But I'm sure they are working with Hameed to see how he comes on and will make a call whether to take him to Aus or not at a later date.
The only person they have yet to take a look at is Crane. He acquitted himself well down under last time he went but I am sure they will look to get him playing a couple of Tests in this series! So I suspect they will either rest Ali (he has MORE than proved himself already!!!) or they may rest a top order bat and move Bairstow up to 5 to accommodate playing both Ali and Crane? Although I am not sure which top order bat they could rest! Root and Cook are the rocks in the top 5 at the moment. So there is only Westley, Stoneman and Malan and none of those have proved themselves yet, so resting Ali is most likely I suspect.
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Anyone who cares to look at Woakes stats from his last tests ( India ) will see that he wasn't excellent with the ball or useful with the bat.
(https://welcometosandyland.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/brokenrecord.gif)
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I don't think i can watch any more of this series . If i was english , i wouldn't be able to help myself ( ie when the windies were in oz last , i watched pretty much every ball of the test series), but as a neutral spectator i dont see the point of getting depressed watching a w.i side which wouldn't give most first class sides an even contest . It's such a shame w.i cricket has descended to this level of ineptitude, but i may as well just hold out and wait for the au vs bang series to start .
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(https://welcometosandyland.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/brokenrecord.gif)
And where there is a selective memory there's always the stats....
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I don't think i can watch any more of this series . If i was english , i wouldn't be able to help myself ( ie when the windies were in oz last , i watched pretty much every ball of the test series), but as a neutral spectator i dont see the point of getting depressed watching a w.i side which wouldn't give most first class sides an even contest . It's such a shame w.i cricket has descended to this level of ineptitude, but i may as well just hold out and wait for the au vs bang series to start .
with all the money in t20 competitions the standard of test cricket
will probably decline
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And where there is a selective memory there's always the stats....
Not arguing about his Indian tour, he, as well as many others, had a poor tour! For many their first tour to India can be a chastening experience.
You seem obsessed with him and in particular his Indian tour performance?? As you appear to love stats so much I'd say a bloke batting at 9 with a test batting average of 29.55 and bowling average of 29.33 for a third seamer is pretty darn good (Even after his poor performance in India)! ......OR..... are you now going to argue that the stats are inflated due to a 'poor' oppo (I mean his performance last summer were only against Pakistan who a month or so later were ranked #1 side in the world) ?
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Chris woakes....hmmm :)
In my humble opinion now and again you get a player who is not outstanding with bat or ball..but when you look at his contribution overall bat ball and in the field it adds up to far more than it appears to be on the surface of just stats...
Stats can be used to make whatever point you want it's about making valuable contributions
He is now our quickest bowler aside from Wood and that batting average low down is pretty good.
I find some of the comments on here about him unrecognisable to the player I see
But opinions are just that,we've all got them!
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Batting: Chris Woakes's defensive technique should be the envy of most of the clowns batting in the top order (Cook and Root aside).
Bowling: Woakes is probably the quickest England bowler who can actually move the ball off the straight, and without breaking down every two games.
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Woakes's bowling is streets ahead of Wood, Ball, TRJ or pretty much anyone else waiting in the wings, as is his batting, he will come straight back into the side as soon as they decide he's fit enough without question and if you think otherwise then you're wrong.
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with all the money in t20 competitions the standard of test cricket
will probably decline
True but I'll still happily watch test cricket a anywhere, between anyone ..... other than Zimbabwe and West Indies . :( ( i include my keenness to watch Ireland and Afghanistan in this statement).
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Not arguing about his Indian tour, he, as well as many others, had a poor tour! For many their first tour to India can be a chastening experience.
You seem obsessed and in particular his Indian tour performance?? As you appear to love stats so much I'd say a bloke batting at 9 with a test batting average of 29.55 and bowling average of 29.33 for a third seamer is pretty darn good (Even after his poor performance in India)! ......OR..... are you now going to argue that the stats are inflated due to a 'poor' oppo (I mean his performance last summer were only against Pakistan who a month or so later were ranked #1 side in the world) ?
Couple of points not obsessed just a different opinion to others also think guys like TRj or specialist batsman are a better option also do agree that in 2016 in the UK Pakistan were poor at times they said so themselves and as for Sri Lanka in May 2016 they had started to rebuild and lets not forget Chris has not always a number 9 he has batted at 6 downwards and I won't even mention how your batting averages can be boosted with not outs. Also in my humble opinion just two fiftys and two five fors in 17 test matches is not good enough. If he is to eventually replace Anderson England need more.
Hopefully with his extra pace he will contribute in Aus as England will probably play 5 seamers
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Woakes took 41 wickets at 25 last year (across 12 Tests) even with the apparently awful India tour he had. Wood for example has taken 26 wickets at 40 in the 10 Tests he's played without ever taking more than 3 wickets in an innings or more than 5 in a match. The difference is night and day in my opinion there is no way that Wood (as much as I like his extra pace) is a better option than Woakes.
He's already contributed more in his first 17 tests than Anderson did in his first 17 (43 wickets at nearly 39 vs Woakes 48 wickets at 29).
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Woakes took 41 wickets at 25 last year (across 12 Tests) even with the apparently awful India tour he had. Wood for example has taken 26 wickets at 40 in the 10 Tests he's played without ever taking more than 3 wickets in an innings or more than 5 in a match. The difference is night and day in my opinion there is no way that Wood (as much as I like his extra pace) is a better option than Woakes.
Do think though the opposition they played against when making comparisions needs to be considered also England didnt use Wood properly he should be used as a strike bowler three four fast over bursts putting the ball in the right areas and hitting the pitch hard.
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Whisper it quietly... is Mark Wood actually that quick?
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Do think though the opposition they played against when making comparisions needs to be considered also England didnt use Wood properly he should be used as a strike bowler three four fast over bursts putting the ball in the right areas and hitting the pitch hard.
I for 1 agree that Wood is a quality bowler with pace and could absolutely do some damage in Aus. Let's remember that Plunkett also has 90mph+ pace, as does Woakes. We are lucky at the moment in that we have Stokes, Woakes and Ali as high quality bowling all-rounders plus Bairstow as a high quality keeper batsman! I have certainly never know us to have so many!! Normally we are more than happy with 1 genuine all-rounder!
The trick we need to perform now is finding that ideal balance for the team!! :(
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Whisper it quietly... is Mark Wood actually that quick?
Agree with this...In fact I don't believe we have a single quick who consistently bowls 90mph,merely high eighties with the odd 90mph delivery.
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I agree - Wood, Plunkett and Woakes all bowl 85-88mph with some effort balls 90mph+
Stokes if 85mph with some around 88mph mark! And Broad and Anderson are more 80-85mph but with Anderson and Broad you get the skill and control (Anderson anyway and Broad sometimes)
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I for 1 agree that Wood is a quality bowler with pace and could absolutely do some damage in Aus. Let's remember that Plunkett also has 90mph+ pace, as does Woakes. We are lucky at the moment in that we have Stokes, Woakes and Ali as high quality bowling all-rounders plus Bairstow as a high quality keeper batsman! I have certainly never know us to have so many!! Normally we are more than happy with 1 genuine all-rounder!
The trick we need to perform now is finding that ideal balance for the team!! :(
I'll keep saying it until the ashes starts ...
Cook
Hameed
Westley/Stoneman/some guy from the pub/anyone with a uk passport in oz at the time...no Garry ballance
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Trj ( to be swapped for Anderson at Adelaide and any green seamer encountered )
This is your team balance !
Oh , and @Seniorplayer , if eng pick 5 seamers in the 11 they will be toast ! Build the batting strength and back Stokes and Ali to make healthy contributions with the ball .
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I'll keep saying it until the ashes starts ...
Cook
Hameed
Westley/Stoneman/some guy from the pub/anyone with a uk passport in oz at the time...no Garry ballance
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Trj ( to be swapped for Anderson at Adelaide and any green seamer encountered )
...back Stokes and Ali to make healthy contributions with the ball .
This man knows his onions - I'd take Roy as a wildcard opener but otherwise I'm in total agreement
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I'll keep saying it until the ashes starts ...
Cook
Hameed
Westley/Stoneman/some guy from the pub/anyone with a uk passport in oz at the time...no Garry ballance
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Trj ( to be swapped for Anderson at Adelaide and any green seamer encountered )
This is your team balance !
Oh , and @Seniorplayer , if eng pick 5 seamers in the 11 they will be toast ! Build the batting strength and back Stokes and Ali to make healthy contributions with the ball .
Would not bat Ballance above 5 at International level!
I know that the look of Hales at 5 followed by Stoke, Bairstow and Ali sounds amazing, but I would seriously bat Hameed at 5 to get him bedded into International cricket! Maybe bat him there for 3 or 4 Test series, so 18 months or more. Then move him up to 2/3!! He is young and needs to be eased in gently, so easy does it as he is hopefully in for the long haul!
I just hope that Stoneman and Westley perform half decently in the rest of the Windies Tests so that we can start to fill in the gaps we have had for a while now!
Love the idea of not playing Anderson on the wickets where he is unlikely to be useful, then play him on the greener wickets! This would hopefully keep him injury-free during the Ashes. Plus Ali ay 8, Woakes 9, TRJ at 10 and Broad at 11 is some batting right down the order, although all they will do is bounce Broad until he starts backing away a bit, then full and straight!!
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Don't like it as 5 seamers upsets the balance of the side if 4 can't do it 5 won't but due to unresolved issues around Malan Westley Stoneman that's what England will probably do. Can't see the next 2 WI tests telling us anything positive about these guys unless they score Alister Cook big
hundreds.
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Whisper it quietly... is Mark Wood actually that quick?
Whisper it even more quietly...is Mark Wood actually that good with a red ball? I'm not convinced as much as I want to be.
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Agree with this...In fact I don't believe we have a single quick who consistently bowls 90mph,merely high eighties with the odd 90mph delivery.
could be decent on oz pitches but seems to have lost some pace recently
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Root's confirmed Woakes will be starting in place of TRJ tomorrow
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boom
Woakes is back
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boom
Woakes is back
Yep against these windes runs and 5 fors expected.
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Won the toss and we're having a bat. Meh.
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hopefully chef books in for bed and breakfast and stoneman can get a start then show what he is made of as not his fault only getting 1 bat in last match and getting out to a worldy
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Won the toss and we're having a bat. Meh.
Does Root have a magic coin?! He always seems to win the toss at the moment!
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Does Root have a magic coin?! He always seems to win the toss at the moment!
He's just a momumental ............. too easy
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where is my favourite english supporter ?.... ive not seen the Cookie Monster yet this english summer . Did i miss him , or is he on holiday with Minnie Mouse ?
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Windies look stronger too. Bowling unit definitely looks a lot stronger and should be able to give England batsman more of a challenge this Test!
I bet Westley and Stoneman are gutted that they couldn't take advantage of the Windies bowlers last Test!! Granted that Stoneman got a peach of a delivery so just got to hope that one of them has a decent knock!
People seem more concerned with Westley than they are with Stoneman - but this could leave the door open for Hameed to slot in at 3?
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Windies look stronger too. Bowling unit definitely looks a lot stronger and should be able to give England batsman more of a challenge this Test!
I bet Westley and Stoneman are gutted that they couldn't take advantage of the Windies bowlers last Test!! Granted that Stoneman got a peach of a delivery so just got to hope that one of them has a decent knock!
People seem more concerned with Westley than they are with Stoneman - but this could leave the door open for Hameed to slot in at 3?
not a bad shout that mate
Bayliss seems to want an attacking no.3 though for some reason as I'd be with you and hales at 5 would compliment this for me
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where is my favourite english supporter ?.... ive not seen the Cookie Monster yet this english summer . Did i miss him , or is he on holiday with Minnie Mouse ?
My favourites are Bertie Basset and the Honey Monster, spent the entire day giving stewards the runaround at Old Trafford during the 2013 Ashes. Removed on 5 separate occasions but made it back in every time!
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Root in for not alot on the board again.
Westley not cashing in against a poor West indies. What will starc and Co do to him in aus is what needs to be asked?
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Root needs to smell the coffee and bat at 3 again
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Root needs to smell the coffee and bat at 3 again
Or try Hameed at 3 and see how he does? Not a lot of time to play around with order now.
I do like Westley but he needs to cash in on any start he gets, which he hasn't done yet :(
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Root in for not alot on the board again.
Westley not cashing in against a poor West indies. What will starc and Co do to him in aus is what needs to be asked?
Didnt quite catch the full stat but said its soemthing like 24 times in the last 50 innings that theyve been 2 down for less than 50
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A lot of people like westley but he keeps getting out the same way which to me means teams have figured him out like balance
Its ok walking across in front of your stumps as many greats have but you have to hit it if you do
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Or try Hameed at 3 and see how he does? Not a lot of time to play around with order now.
I do like Westley but he needs to cash in on any start he gets, which he hasn't done yet :(
Your best batsman bats #3, period. I really don't understand why he doesn't like it.
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Your best batsman bats #3, period. I really don't understand why he doesn't like it.
To be fair, he may as well bat at 3 at the moment!! He is in so early these days that it is like he is batting there already!! :o
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Your best batsman bats #3, period. I really don't understand why he doesn't like it.
Best bat at 3 is literally only an Australian thing, and in any case our best batsman is Cook!
Westley's been out LBW twice before everyone jumps on the 'keeps getting out the same way' bandwagon, even if he is starting look a bit Shane Watson.
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Your best batsman bats #3, period. I really don't understand why he doesn't like it.
where does this come from?
Yes the best batsmen I have ever seen batted there in sir viv and like of ponting etc but Sachin batted 4 didn't he? plus kallis at 4 KP at 4 and didn't bradman open?
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Best bat at 3 is literally only an Australian thing, and in any case our best batsman is Cook!
Westley's been out LBW twice before everyone jumps on the 'keeps getting out the same way' bandwagon, even if he is starting look a bit Shane Watson.
fair enough ill calm down as I thought it was more as he looks Watson esque it may be clouding my perception
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where does this come from?
Yes the best batsmen I have ever seen batted there in sir viv and like of ponting etc but Sachin batted 4 didn't he? plus kallis at 4 KP at 4 and didn't bradman open?
Look at the current best test batsman in the game. Where do they all bat?
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Yes i'll give you that most of the best today bat there but its just a coincidence not a hard and fast rule
when I was growing up the best bats batted at 4/5 lara Sachin kallis Waugh
I honestly think the best bat should choose where they bat and build a side around that
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I batted at 3 for my team last week and im (No Swearing Please)
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Your best batsman bats #3, period. I really don't understand why he doesn't like it.
Nonsense, that's just an Aussie tradition that's been ingrained thanks to Bradman batting at #3 and Chappell constantly banging on about it because he can't think of anything else to add. Repeating it over and over again at the top of their voices doesn't make it true and I tear out what little hair I have left whenever I see the "Best batsman bats at #3" myth .
You can have the best batsman at #3 in Australia where the Kookaburra ball is useless after 10 overs and it never moves off the straight on those roads. In England, with a Dukes ball on greenish wickets, it's a different ball game.
If you look at batsmen who played primarily at one down, Trott was the last quality #3 for England. Who was the last one before him? Ted Dexter? Gower has a great record at #3 but he only played a quarter of his innings there. Wally Hammond has a terrific record at #3 but he batted at #4 more often.
"Your best batsman bats at #3" is not true in England and it never has been. Just because the Aussies say it, doesn't make it true.
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Look at the current best test batsman in the game. Where do they all bat?
Current?
Eng - 1
In - 4
NZ - 3
Aus - 4
WI - 5
SL - 5
Ban - 1 or 6, not sure who to nominate as best player
SA - 4/5/6/7, wherever they decide to put De Kock on a game by game basis!
Zim - not a scooby
So one out of 8 bats at 3, and he's batted there his whole career anyway. Various of the others have tried 3, scored less runs and reverted back to their previous position in the middle order.
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I batted at 3 for my team last week and im (No Swearing Please)
Absolutely give it the large one then ' the forum tell me the best player bats 3' haha :)
Blimey we are going back finding out where Bradman batted ! I think he batted 3 myself but could well be wrong
Difficult number 3 spot? There is only one man to do the job
Come in you Warwickshire beauty
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Absolutely give it the large one then ' the forum tell me the best player bats 3' haha :)
Blimey we are going back finding out where Bradman batted ! I think he batted 3 myself but could well be wrong
Difficult number 3 spot? There is only one man to do the job
Come in you Warwickshire beauty
No, the Don was #3. He's the whole reason that myth exists.
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Current?
Eng - 1
In - 4
NZ - 3
Aus - 4
WI - 5
SL - 5
Ban - 1 or 6, not sure who to nominate as best player
SA - 4/5/6/7, wherever they decide to put De Kock on a game by game basis!
Zim - not a scooby
So one out of 8 bats at 3, and he's batted there his whole career anyway. Various of the others have tried 3, scored less runs and reverted back to their previous position in the middle order.
I guess it's opinion, but you obviously don't rate Hashim Amla. And last time I checked, Smith batted 3 in Australia's tour of India. And yes, people can go back to other periods of the game, but right now 3 is definitely where I'd want my best
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Best batsman at 3 only a Good call if you have 2 dependable openers
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I guess it's opinion, but you obviously don't rate Hashim Amla. And last time I checked, Smith batted 3 in Australia's tour of India. And yes, people can go back to other periods of the game, but right now 3 is definitely where I'd want my best
Amla's a top player, but on the decline - currently the wicket I'd want most is De Kock. Amla also a career 3 in any case. Smith at 3 was an India tour only thing I believe, he's on record saying he prefers 4. Root averages 41 opening, 45 at 3 and 60 at 4 or lower... I wonder why he prefers 4? ;)
More on today's game - I thought WI missed Gabriel badly in the first test, I didn't think it'd make this much difference! Two very good changes to their side today I reckon.
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I guess it's opinion, but you obviously don't rate Hashim Amla. And last time I checked, Smith batted 3 in Australia's tour of India. And yes, people can go back to other periods of the game, but right now 3 is definitely where I'd want my best
That's what a forum is supposed to be different opinions debating their point which is fine by me and fun to do
If we all agreed life would be boring
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Without doubt the number 3 position for England has been affected by the uncertainty above. Trott was an awesome 3, but definitely benefitted from Cook and Strauss, as did Ponting with Hayden and Langer...
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This feels so village
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Going well this.
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Root in for not alot on the board again.
Westley not cashing in against a poor West indies. What will starc and Co do to him in aus is what needs to be asked?
Again plays across a straight one If he continues to do that in Aus on quick tracks ....
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Again plays across a straight one If he continues to do that in Aus on quick tracks ....
at least we have woakes back to save us
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Stokes getting away with one
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And another
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Death, Taxes and a Joe Root 50
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Death, Taxes and a Joe Root 50
Unbelievable consistency at the moment.
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Will stokes move up to five? And then bairstow six?
Or bairstow just back to 5?
And the blood the young guns at 7 till they find there way?
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Roots stats could already be the thing of legend. 30 50's and 13 100's so far in his career
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If Bairstow bats at 5 and Stokes at 6, then you have the luxury of blooding any new one in anywhere from 7 to 9, as Ali and Woakes can bat anywhere there.
In theory we have the opportunity of seeing who looks the weakest technically out of Stoneman, Westley and Malan over the next few Tests and put Hameed in that place. I know Hameed has had some success in India but would still prefer to see him at 5 to start with.
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Roots stats could already be the thing of legend. 30 50's and 13 100's so far in his career
Really needs to convert these fiftys into big hundreds though
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Err, that hit the ground, right?
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Not keen on follow the ball captaincy mind you stokes won't mind watching that ball fly through third slip.
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Err, that hit the ground, right?
Nah, was definitely out even with the foreshortening effect of the TV cameras.
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I don't have Sky sports - so could someone explain what the 1st day wicket is like? Is the wicket doing loads?
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If Bairstow bats at 5 and Stokes at 6, then you have the luxury of blooding any new one in anywhere from 7 to 9, as Ali and Woakes can bat anywhere there.
In theory we have the opportunity of seeing who looks the weakest technically out of Stoneman, Westley and Malan over the next few Tests and put Hameed in that place. I know Hameed has had some success in India but would still prefer to see him at 5 to start with.
New batsman at 5 makes sense, sticking a new player in at 7/8 won't exactly fill them with confidence! I blame Ian Bell for all this, the traditional way is blood a player at 5 then when the hole opens at 3 you should have someone experienced to step up to 3, new man goes in at 5 again. He/Trott ruined the cycle! :D
Just seen Root's wicket, what a rubbish shot. If KP had played that in the same situation the whole world would be going nuts.
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I just don't see why if someone is a resounding success in a position, eg bairstow at 7, root at 4 and, yes, bell at 5, you move them. Take a player who struts out to bat in a position they have a lot of success at and sow seeds of doubt as to whether they can perform higher up the order. Tendulkar didn't move, nor did steve waugh, they didn't do too badly.
Moving even one position is a huge change, yet we're sprinkling players around like confetti. Never as simple as being good in one position natyrally following that they are good elsewhere. Way too many variables and elite sport is huge psychologically.
Batting 3 is a very difficult position, takes a certain type of player. Nothing ive seen suggest Ballance or jennings or westley are long term answers. Root doesn't want to bat there. Fact is we've been spoilt having a top four of strauss, cook, root and KP... the cupboard seems bare...
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I just don't see why if someone is a resounding success in a position, eg bairstow at 7, root at 4 and, yes, bell at 5, you move them. Take a player who struts out to bat in a position they have a lot of success at and sow seeds of doubt as to whether they can perform higher up the order. Tendulkar didn't move, nor did steve waugh, they didn't do too badly.
I'm with you here. Bairstow certainly seems good enough to bat at no.5 but he's scored loads at no.7 so why move him up to 5? He already has to keep wicket as well. Same with Stokes, don't move him from 6, leave him there. Both Stokes and YJB average 5 runs more batting at 6 & 7 respectively than their career avg, Stokes averages approx 35 in all games but 40 batting at 6, YJB averages 40ish overall but 45 when batting at 7. Leave them where they are!
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Top three certainly has been a problem since those players you mention retired. Ian bell...well one of our best players, yes did also underachieve at the same time
We have a lot of batsmen who are suited to the middle order that's the issue
If you discount balance and Jennings and take them out of consideration the only player I've seen in the last two years who looks like he could be the real deal is....hameed
In my opinion anyway :)
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I don't have Sky sports - so could someone explain what the 1st day wicket is like? Is the wicket doing loads?
looks a decent enough pitch , certainly not green . occasionally nibbling off the seem slightly. hasn't been much swing around all day (but no great exponents of it either).
just decent bowling really.
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Nice to see our middle order bailing out the top order again
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Funny that Boycott has just said that we can't bring new blood in for the Ashes so maybe bat Hales at 5! Is he a member on here!? ;)
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you caught me ! .... you can call me Boycs from now on . :D
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I don't have Sky sports - so could someone explain what the 1st day wicket is like? Is the wicket doing loads?
It's a slow pitch the ball needs to be pitched up anything short is there to be hammered
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Best allrounder in the world
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i wish stokes was aussie ;)
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Oh my giddy aunt Ive sorted it lads
Stokes bats 3 in future !!
Am I right or what?
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Woakes best number 9 in the world
Name me one other team that has a better batsman there I will....run naked they Worcestershire in just my pads
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Some absolutely farcical drops today
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I would not want to drop a catch off Mr Gabriel - he looks like he might just mention it later in the dressing room!!!
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WIndies keeper looks very young. Where did he play before playing Test cricket for WIndies?
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Sounds like Gabriel gave Stokes a send-off! Silly after someone just hit a ton! And Gabriel averages 5 with the bat? Reckon Stokes may be in Root's ear to throw him the ball once Gabriel walks out to bat! I suspect there will only be one winner in that battle! ;)
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Sounds like Gabriel gave Stokes a send-off! Silly after someone just hit a ton! And Gabriel averages 5 with the bat? Reckon Stokes may be in Root's ear to throw him the ball once Gabriel walks out to bat! I suspect there will only be one winner in that battle! ;)
Reckon he will remind him of the shot Gabriel played against Pakistan!!!
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WIndies keeper looks very young. Where did he play before playing Test cricket for WIndies?
jefferson junior high :)
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i wish stokes was aussie ;)
you know what , thats not a half bad idea. you could then have hales at 5 and hameed at 6 . seems better a.t.m then most of the alternatives.
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Woakes best number 9 in the world
Name me one other team that has a better batsman there I will....run naked they Worcestershire in just my pads
England with TRJ in the team a player who's done no wrong and gets top batters out.
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Below par score, but the bowlers here under lights for an hour could be interesting
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Dropping Root on 8 and Stokes on 9 could cost the Windies.
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You sense Ben stokes don't care who he mixes it with
He would be the last bloke shooting against a whole army
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Reckon he will remind him of the shot Gabriel played against Pakistan!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/ktzUF4U.gif)
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Lovely Jimmy
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I think Notorious B.I.G. @Biggie Smalls the other day posted for the batting Stoneman/Malan/westley-anyone but Ballance
But if it was one out of those 3 not including ballance at all which one will England go forward with does the forum think?
Or maybe two out of the three names to make it easier...
I'm not sure myself ! Stoneman I would say looks better , short and outside off and quick against the Aussies it appears Westley might struggle playing as he is now.
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Completely at a loss as to what we do with those top 3 batting positions now,the selectors might as well pull names out of a hat!Personally I'd have Hales in at 5,Stoneman will get the rest of the series. Might as well bring back Ravi Bopara! :(
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Completely at a loss as to what we do with those top 3 batting positions now,the selectors might as well pull names out of a hat!Personally I'd have Hales in at 5,Stoneman will get the rest of the series. Might as well bring back Ravi Bopara! :(
Ravi bops!! :)
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It's to late now to try anyone else before OZ go with Stoneman to open Hales and the experience of Balance
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It's to late now to try anyone else before OZ go with Stoneman to open Hales and the experience of Balance
Hales at 3 (Where he never bats) and Ballance at 5?
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Problem is Balance at test level batting at three struggles against the new ball
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Completely at a loss as to what we do with those top 3 batting positions now,the selectors might as well pull names out of a hat!Personally I'd have Hales in at 5,Stoneman will get the rest of the series. Might as well bring back Ravi Bopara! :(
King Ravi, the ODI legend!
Didn't he thrash runs against the West Indies before getting dropped during an Ashes series before? (That lead to Jonathan Trott's selection, if I recall correctly)
Give him a go and see if history repeats itself, his successor could be he long term solution again...
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Problem is Balance at test level batting at three struggles against the new ball
Yes- I like ballance as a player but he is never a number 3 , 5 would be better. Don't think the selectors will pick him the boat may have sailed.
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Just watched the highlights. Woakes chipping in with third highest score...
Not bad for number 9.
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Just watched the highlights. Woakes chipping in with third highest score...
Not bad for number 9.
He played some good shots but the bowlers looked tired and bowled short.
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King Ravi, the ODI legend!
Didn't he thrash runs against the West Indies before getting dropped during an Ashes series before? (That lead to Jonathan Trott's selection, if I recall correctly)
Give him a go and see if history repeats itself, his successor could be he long term solution again...
I think your memory despite destroying brain cells at univ is very accurate. Bops got 3 or 4 low scores and made way for Trott who got a hundred at the Oval on debut.
But Ravi is not going to get recalled realistically :) history won't get that chance again!
I could be wrong and I havnt destroyed brain cells at university as I'm not clever enough by a long shot to go in the first place Bops got 3 consecutive hundreds(could be wrong) I think(!)
According to a mate of a mate who played with his brother :) Ravi feels he never got a fair chance.
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I could be wrong and I havnt destroyed brain cells at university as I'm not clever enough by a long shot to go in the first place Bops got 3 consecutive hundreds(could be wrong) I think(!)
If going to university is a measure of intelligence I must be really thick, seeing as I'm a college drop out! :D
I think you're correct, didn't he get dropped after his maiden hundred in the Windies, then get 2 consecutive ones on his recall (so 3 consecutive hundreds and a few games without being selected in the middle!)
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I think Notorious B.I.G. @Biggie Smalls the other day posted for the batting Stoneman/Malan/westley-anyone but Ballance
But if it was one out of those 3 not including ballance at all which one will England go forward with does the forum think?
Or maybe two out of the three names to make it easier...
I'm not sure myself ! Stoneman I would say looks better , short and outside off and quick against the Aussies it appears Westley might struggle playing as he is now.
think i said stoneman/westley/some guy from the pub/anyone in oz with a uk passport /not ballance....
i know westley and stoneman have looked iffy or unconvincing at times , and malan got that 60 odd... but to me malan looks the least likely test bat of the three .
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where is my favourite english supporter ?.... ive not seen the Cookie Monster yet this english summer . Did i miss him , or is he on holiday with Minnie Mouse ?
yaaaay ! cookie monster and minnie mouse are back at the cricket today ! they must have read my forum post and got motivated .
i hope bumble has a chat with them at some stage .
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(http://i.imgur.com/rMqwq4Y.gif)
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Any of the 'what does he have to do?' brigade dropped Stoneman yet?
I was standing next to Nick Knight on the boundary before the start of play last night. KP and Ian Bell were standing close by, chatting. "We could perhaps do with those two at Leeds," I joked to Nick Knight, though not seriously believing it.
Nick Knight made a silly Nick Knight noise. :D
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([url]http://i.imgur.com/rMqwq4Y.gif[/url])
whoaa buddy !
good luck wearing that at perth during 40c heat !
he makes my day , love it when his eyes go all wonky and all over the place . :D
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Which one are we looking at? What about the one in cap giving it the 'I love fellatio' gesture?
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Which one are we looking at? What about the one in cap giving it the 'I love fellatio' gesture?
haha.
please refer to my earlier cookie monster posts (ie no fellatio). :D
t.b.h i hadn't noticed that until reading this... good spot , its even funnier when on a loop like that .
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hey , is mr fellatio wearing a Trump wig and 'make america great again' hat , while sitting surrounded by blokes dressed as Mexicans ? Where's his wall ?
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hey , is mr fellatio wearing a Trump wig and 'make america great again' hat , while sitting surrounded by blokes dressed as Mexicans ? Where's his wall ?
Oh yeah, I hadn't noticed that!
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JIMMY
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Good God moeen...
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Just a thought is it worth stokes getting another demerit point and sacrificing the last test match as apposed to picking up points in the ashes and getting banned during that series. No chance of strokes keeping his cool for all 5 tests in the winter
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Just a thought is it worth stokes getting another demerit point and sacrificing the last test match as apposed to picking up points in the ashes and getting banned during that series. No chance of strokes keeping his cool for all 5 tests in the winter
stupid demerit points !.... stokes got a hundred, surely that's worth a few brownie points to offset the demerit points ?
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(http://i.imgur.com/HK9lseM.gif)
Always nice when the pros give us amateurs the chance to go "Pffft, I could have done better than that"
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I don't think we'll see Westley in Australia
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Tracking the match from holiday but from what I can get from BBC if the windies could catch we would of lost by now.
Agree on westley , once again until someone goes from county the step up is really Unknown , Stoneman looks the best bet so far - a bit more of an accumulator as opener...that's what we need
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Yep joe dropped and then saved on review.
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If Moeen hadn't had dropped that one we'd actually be in an OK position
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Also Gabriel needs to sort his front foot out
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Tracking the match from holiday but from what I can get from BBC if the windies could catch we would of lost by now
@ppccopener
Where does a self- confessed kit tramp go on holiday?
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@ppccopener
Where does a self- confessed kit tramp go on holiday?
We have popped over to the Turkish steps in Sicily but my ideal holiday would be watching a test match.my wife would think otherwise thou :)
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Another Root 50 then out. God I'm going to get so triggered by his statistics when he retires
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Strange that the Windies haven't taken the new ball
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Poor shot from Bairstow,what was he thinking?Windies back in the game here.Important partnership here with Moeen and Woakes. What do you think we need to be safe?
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]Lead of 250 plenty of rough for Ali dropped catches by the windes have cost them but anything over 200 Should be enough for anderson Ali and broad to win it for England.
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Poor bowling straight after tea and now a wicket with a no ball
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This is why test cricket is so good
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Another mini innings from woakes,this is what he does so well
Tough runs from malan as well thats a good sign
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This is really poor from the Windies.They fought so hard to get themselves into a potentially winning position,and are in real danger of throwing this test match away by having a poor session.
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I love Moeen
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This Woakes lad is rubbish....
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Aye, not good enough
Aggressive captaincy from Rooty!
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Woakes robbed of a ton by Root's aggressive captaincy
Was @Seniorplayer on the phone about the declaration? ;)
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Yorkshire cc ticket website down... I'm thinking about going, do you think I will be ok to buy a ticket on the gate?
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Alis knock took the the game Away from the Windes pressure then off easy runs for any batter against substandard bowling the windes bowlers looked exhausted
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Yorkshire cc ticket website down... I'm thinking about going, do you think I will be ok to buy a ticket on the gate?
Can't see why not only 8000 there today on a bank Holiday
Unless I misheard it's a tenner and a fiver on the gate kids are free.
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Another mini innings from woakes,this is what he does so well
Tough runs from malan as well thats a good sign
Nasser's analysis of Malan's front foot driving was excellent. Every time he didn't watch the ball on to the bat all the way, leans back. Oz cordon will love it if he gets an Ashes gig.
I bet that's what I do too.
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Alis knock took the the game Away from the Windes pressure then off easy runs for any batter against substandard bowling the windes bowlers looked exhausted
That's the point of test match batting! They were a ton of runs behind, so had to wear the bowlers down and the lower order benefitted. You think Gilchrist scored all his runs against fresh bowling?
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Alis knock took the the game Away from the Windes pressure then off easy runs for any batter against substandard bowling the windes bowlers looked exhausted
Or did Woakes being solid at the other end take pressure off Mo and allow him to play with such freedom?
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Yorkshire cc ticket website down... I'm thinking about going, do you think I will be ok to buy a ticket on the gate?
Yep. Ł10 Adults, Ł5 Students/OAP's, Kids Free.
Cash only on the turnstiles at St. Michaels Lane and Kirkstall Lane, Ticket Office if paying by card.
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Or did Woakes being solid at the other end take pressure off Mo and allow him to play with such freedom?
Mo would have played that way regardless of who's at the other end it's is way.
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Moeen Ali's Test strike rate is 52. He scores 5 runs per hundred faster than Cook, 4 runs per hundred slower than Root.
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Mo would have played that way regardless of who's at the other end it's is way.
I don't think I'll ever understand your dislike of Woakes but there's no way that TRJ or Broad or whoever else might have batted at 9 in his place would have scored 60odd n.o with the ease that Woakes did today, he's got the technique that he could probably do a decent job batting at least 2 spots higher.
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I don't think I'll ever understand your dislike of Woakes but there's no way that TRJ or Broad or whoever else might have batted at 9 in his place would have scored 60odd n.o with the ease that Woakes did today, he's got the technique that he could probably do a decent job batting at least 2 spots higher.
Not a dislike rather than 1 for 86 just want to see more top players wickets and reqular decent scores. Re TRJ etc Broad look untroubled but
We will never know what we do know is the windies bowling straight after onwards tea was not good lets see what happens in Aus against quality bowling and decent batting.
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Ah, classic run out
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Surely that's pitch tampering there from Broad. Should be 5 runs.
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sat at work
how likely is this run chase looking as text I'm reading says its on?
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sat at work
how likely is this run chase looking as text I'm reading says its on?
It's west indies - one wicket and they'll roll over. These 2 probably need to bat for another 60-70 runs to have any chance
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Root is unable to control his team - kicking the pitch, getting in the face of the batsman...sheesh.
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They are scoring at quite a decent rate. New ball will be due when there is 16 overs left. England need to hope they can contain the rate and bungle a few quick wickets to have a chance with the new ball to roll them over
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England just don't look remotely threatening here.
Windiest game for the taking.
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It is good to see some fight back from a young WIndies team.
Is Kraig Braithwaite related to the mighty T-20 star?
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Is Kraig Braithwaite related to the mighty T-20 star?
No, Brathwaite is apparently a common Barbadian surname. That info was from the late, great T Cozier.
Apologies if that's untrue and my memory fails me.
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Massive wicket that - commentators were doing their best to curse him about the record.
Here comes the collapse
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Gonna hate watching this final session. Can't see us winning, but God knows
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Draws favourite at tea
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I consider myself a big England fan,but part of me would be really pleased if the West Indies win...
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all tests should be hosted by englad.. the last three series (Pakistan, SA..and now this) have been thrilling.
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An upset on the cards.
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What a game this is turning out to be! Wonderful for Test cricket.
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Well batted shai hope. Record broke!
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3 an over for the last 15 overs . 6 wickets remaining. Surely the windies have got it in the bag ? Or can Jimmy wield some magic with the new dukes ?
Im excited ..... didnt think id be saying this , in fact , after the parhetic result in the last test, i didn't even think i would bother to watch this one . Glad i did !
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Reliable Cook dropped his second catch in the same innings? What up, bruh?
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Blackwood is an exciting talent!
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Closing in on a wonderful victory. This is an amazing turn-around from the previous Test match.
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Atleast I'll be able to tell my Grandchildren that I saw an aggressive England declaration.
Never to be seen again.
"Declare? We're only 500 in front. Remember Headingley 2017?"
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(http://i.imgur.com/qXy04pU.gif)
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School boy! Get on the line.
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How nice to see a young Test team doing well!!! Good job, WIndies!
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Hope. Braithwaite. Test cricket has their new stars!
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Hope. Braithwaite. Test cricket has their new stars!
because there's never been any false dawns with the WIndies before?
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Tremendous effort by Jimmy and Broad to keep plugging away over after over.
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Hope. Braithwaite. Test cricket has their new stars!
because there's never been any false dawns with the WIndies before?
Not too sure you can call a bloke who's played 39 tests 'new' either!
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Blackwood was batting wirhout a helmet? I thought that was no longer allowed?
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ECB regs enforce helmet wearing, but as Test Matches are played under ICC Playing Regulations no helmet is ok.
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ECB regs enforce helmet wearing, but as Test Matches are played under ICC Playing Regulations no helmet is ok.
Thanks.
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Take a bow West Indies! Great comeback after edgbaston.
Before everyone slates England I don't think we were THAT bad! Let's for once praise someone who beat us rather than slating England!
I liked the declaration and Think it was he best time! We should have won but they were better! Fair play! Now onto a series decider!
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I don't think it is wrong to risk losing in order to try to win. It was a good declatation.
Well played West Indies.
Call up for Liam Livingstone?
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Nothing wrong with the declaration 5 overs at the openers before the close Leading to a wicket or two would have been seen as an excellent decision
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If test cricket is to survive we need more games like this and aus vs ban
Attacking declaration made game interesting and all results possible going into last session of day 5 rather than a run fest boring 600 plays 600 or a 3 day odi
great game and we maybe could have bowled better but I would say we were beaten more than we lost the game
sets up a cracking next test.
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I don't think it is wrong to risk losing in order to try to win. It was a good declatation.
Well played West Indies.
Call up for Liam Livingstone?
There should be cant see England changeing with one test left.
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I had no issue with the declaration, if we'd batted till close of play adding another 40 runs say, then had West Indies 260/8 at the end of the test everyone would be whinging that Root was too conservative and that he should have declared early.
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Unchanged squad named for the deciding Test at Lord's, would people make any changes or pick the same XI?
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Unchanged squad named for the deciding Test at Lord's, would people make any changes or pick the same XI?
I think they'll name the same XI.
If they'd have won at Headingley then they might have picked Crane but as it's winner takes all they'll go unchanged I think with only TRJ/Woakes the possible swap depending on Woakes' fitness.
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I think they'll name the same XI.
If they'd have won at Headingley then they might have picked Crane but as it's winner takes all they'll go unchanged I think with only TRJ/Woakes the possible swap depending on Woakes' fitness.
I tend to agree, although it would be good to have a look at Crane in a match situation, I get the feeling they only wanted him to get used to being in and around the squad.
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So Westley gets another opportunity.Looked a bit all over the place at Headingly. Did anyone listen to Tuffers and Vaughan?Was quite interesting, Ashley Giles was talking up Liam Livingstone,who has great first class stats- his double hundred took his career average above 50. I feel if he had done a Malan and performed in those 2 T20's,he would have been called up by now.
How many do take in the squad to Aus?16 or 17? Anyone tempted to name their preferred Ashes squad?Or predict who the selectors will go for?
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How many do take in the squad to Aus?16 or 17? Anyone tempted to name their preferred Ashes squad?Or predict who the selectors will go for?
I imagine the touring party will look something like:
Cook
Stoneman/Hameed
Westley
Jennings/Livingstone
Root*
Malan
Hales/Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow+
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Roland-Jones
Crane/Rashid
Wood
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Westley hasn't done well against Windies but he did look better against SA bowling! And no point dropping him for the last Test!
Stoneman showed some quality in the last Test and I thought Malan fought really hard which was good to see, although I would still be tempted by Hales at 5!!!
And squad? Tough call for Ashes as things always seems to change!
Cook, Stoneman, Westley, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
Add to that Crane. Hammeed, Hales, Buttler (or another reserve keeper) TRJ, Wood/Plunkett.
Maybe add one more top 5 batsman and another bowler and that would be my thinking.
If Westley or another looks bad in Aus then there is the option to put Hales/Hammeed in?
Am still a little concerned but Aus have their worries too!
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I don't think Hameed will be selected unless he has an unbelievable end to the county championship.Think he's out in Australia over the winter anyway so could be a late call-up.
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Hales
Root *
Ballance
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow#
Butler/Foakes (reserve #)
Ali
Woakes
Crane
Broad
Anderson
Toblerone-Jones
Wood
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I'll also throw in a wildcard pick in Jofra Archer, has had a good season and has some wheels.
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England are further forward now with stoneman and malan looking the part so far
Westley is struggling and needs an offside game pretty quick because extra pace in oz cannot be whipped thru midwicket .hazlewood and cummins can take the ball away from the right handers
Interesting for me will be trj role-he came in and did well then was left out for woakes
Can he play with woakes in rotation for broad or anderson?
If he could it might create a slot for crane-let's be honest england have thrown the towel in with rashes in red ball cricket
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.......let's be honest england have thrown the towel in with rashes in red ball cricket
That's why I didn't include him! I have liked the look of Patel this season and Rashid can be decent with bat and ball. But looks like we are passing them up.
But I think with Crane in reserve, Ali, Root, plus Westley and Malan as spin backup we should have enough?
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I'll also throw in a wildcard pick in Jofra Archer, has had a good season and has some wheels.
Is he qualified yet?
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Good point
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Is there a windies odi series after the tests? They might have another look at Livingstone in that and see if he looks more composed. Malang only seems to have gotten his test cap off the back of the composure he showed in his T20 run out. Should he be a shoe in for white ball cricket now? Ditto Crane - if he plays in the white ball stuff v WI and does well he may get the nod for oz
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Is he qualified yet?
http://www.alloutcricket.com/features/skys-limit-jofra-archer (http://www.alloutcricket.com/features/skys-limit-jofra-archer)
Archer has an English father but grew up in WI,has played WI U19'S.only made is first class debut in 2016 so doubt he has qualified yet
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[url]http://www.alloutcricket.com/features/skys-limit-jofra-archer[/url] ([url]http://www.alloutcricket.com/features/skys-limit-jofra-archer[/url])
Archer has an English father but grew up in WI,has played WI U19'S.only made is first class debut in 2016 so doubt he has qualified yet
Will be qualified in 2 years time, and if Jordan got a got, I'm pretty sure Archer will if he carries on with his form and development
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Good to see we aren't the only ones with selection headaches for the ashes:
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bangladesh-v-australia-matthew-wade-hasnt-done-enough-with-the-bat-says-steve-smith-20170903-gy9tge.html (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bangladesh-v-australia-matthew-wade-hasnt-done-enough-with-the-bat-says-steve-smith-20170903-gy9tge.html)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/04/selection-and-weather-doubts-cloud-australias-plans-for-bangladesh-rematch (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/04/selection-and-weather-doubts-cloud-australias-plans-for-bangladesh-rematch)
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Good to see we aren't the only ones with selection headaches for the ashes:
[url]http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bangladesh-v-australia-matthew-wade-hasnt-done-enough-with-the-bat-says-steve-smith-20170903-gy9tge.html[/url] ([url]http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bangladesh-v-australia-matthew-wade-hasnt-done-enough-with-the-bat-says-steve-smith-20170903-gy9tge.html[/url])
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/04/selection-and-weather-doubts-cloud-australias-plans-for-bangladesh-rematch[/url] ([url]https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/04/selection-and-weather-doubts-cloud-australias-plans-for-bangladesh-rematch[/url])
England have the bigger selection headache what this series against WI has shown imo is that certain players both batsman and bowlers are not good enough to get on the plane but they will as England's selectors choices are limited.
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Starc - Heel
Hazlewood - Side
Pattinson - Back
Cummins - did not come out after tea today...
Great potential bowling attack if they weren't all crocked.
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England have the bigger selection headache what this series against WI has shown is that certain players both batsman and bowlers are not good enough to get on the plane but they will as England's selectors choices are limited.
Who are the bowlers that aren't good enough to get on the plane based on the Windies series?
And don't say Woakes...
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Who are the bowlers that aren't good enough to get on the plane based on the Windies series?
And don't say Woakes...
OK Cam he who cannot be mentioned.
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OK Cam he who cannot be mentioned.
So you're saying a bloke with a proven Test record with the ball and who is more than capable with the bat, who is simply out of match practice due to just coming back from injury, shouldn't go to Australia?
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So you're saying a bloke with a proven Test record with the ball and who is more than capable with the bat, who is simply out of match practice due to just coming back from injury, shouldn't go to Australia?
Not just match practice a test recorded boosted by a good 2016 in the uk against oppositon that at times lacked quality no consistency in the winter in Asia need to see more top Batters wickets and more wickets per innings from your first change bowler in also in Aus most of the wickets are taken by seamers
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A little bit disappointed not to see Livingstone in the latest ODI squad- very much doubt he will be a wildcard pick for the Ashes now.
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No Crane either?
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Perhaps they want Crane to do some bowling in the county championship,but I would have thought bowling under more pressure and scrutiny in the T20's and odi's would benefit him more,if the selectors want to take him to Aus?
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Not just match practice a test recorded boosted by a good 2016 in the uk against oppositon that at times lacked quality no consistency in the winter in Asia need to see more top Batters wickets and more wickets per innings from your first change bowler in also in Aus most of the wickets are taken by seamers
So who should play instead? Roland jones who is a similar bowler?
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So who should play instead? Roland jones who is a similar bowler?
For a player lacking in test match experience
TRJ during his time in the team did nothing wrong proved he can get top players out played a big part in the wins against the harder to beat SA and the first windes test .
Worth a seat on the Aus plane.
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For a player lacking in test match experience
TRJ during his time in the team did nothing wrong proved he can get top players out played a big part in the wins against the harder to beat SA and the first windes test .
Worth a seat on the Aus plane.
Yeah he's worth a seat on the plane but he's not gonna play if Woakes is fit. You can keep saying that apparently he's bolstered his stats against weak oppo but Pakistan were hardly garbage when they came over were they? The test series finished 2 all so clearly Pakistan did alright, even with Woakes taking 26 wickets across the 4 tests. He took 11 wickets for 100 runs at Lord's in a losing effort for crying out loud, give the lad a break.
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Yeah he's worth a seat on the plane but he's not gonna play if Woakes is fit. You can keep saying that apparently he's bolstered his stats against weak oppo but Pakistan were hardly garbage when they came over were they? The test series finished 2 all so clearly Pakistan did alright, even with Woakes taking 26 wickets across the 4 tests. He took 11 wickets for 100 runs at Lord's in a losing effort for crying out loud, give the lad a break.
And there's the problem players getting selected on the back of one decent series didnt do a lot in Asia also
Never said Pakistan were garbage not a word i would use Pakistan were poor at times
there Captain said so himself on TV.
And as for Sri Lanka in 2016 had just started to rebuild.
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And there's the problem players getting selected on the back of one decent series
TRJ has literally played 3 test matches...........
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TRJ has literally played 3 test matches...........
Yes but they were here and now.and he got the wickets of good players
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Yes but they were here and now.and he got the wickets of good players
So you're saying the woakes stats are inflated but trj isn't even the wickets he took in the first West Indies test?
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So you're saying the woakes stats are inflated but trj isn't even the wickets he took in the first West Indies test?
Against SA TRJ 10 wickets in two tests best bowling match winning 5 for 58 second only to Moeen.
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Against SA TRJ 10 wickets in two tests best bowling match winning 5 for 58 second only to Moeen.
But South Africa were poor at times, their Captain said so himself on TV...
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But South Africa were poor at times, their Captain said so himself on TV...
Okay let's put it like this following a good lead declaration England lost the second WI test due to there failure to bowl the Windies out on day five having left out an inform TRJ for Woakes who had a match return of 2 wickets for over 100 runs.
Would TRJ made a difference we will never know.
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Okay let's put it like this following a good lead declaration England lost the second WI test due to there failure to bowl the Windies out on day five having left out an inform TRJ for Woakes who had a match return of 2 wickets for over 100 runs.
Would TRJ made a difference we will never know.
Can't solely blame Woakes though, the bowling unit as a collective failed to bowl out WI.
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Okay let's put it like this following a good lead declaration England lost the second WI test due to there failure to bowl the Windies out on day five having left out an inform TRJ for Woakes who had a match return of 2 wickets for over 100 runs.
Would TRJ made a difference we will never know.
Who scored 61* to help get that good lead?
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Who scored 61* to help get that good lead?
And looked like having a great chance of a ton if they hadn't declared. He looked in a lot less bother than most of the top 6 in the side.
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Okay let's put it like this following a good lead declaration England lost the second WI test due to there failure to bowl the Windies out on day five having left out an inform TRJ for Woakes who had a match return of 2 wickets for over 100 runs.
Would TRJ made a difference we will never know.
sounds like your failing to accept that Windies batted well and none of the england side could get them out #takeyourblinkersoff
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When Woakes wins an Ashes game with bat/ball/both, Seniorplayer is not allowed to celebrate with the rest of us :D
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Toby Roland Jones will replace Chris Woakes in the England Cricket team tomorrow
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Toby Roland Jones will replace Chris Woakes in the England Cricket team tomorrow
@Seniorplayer will be pleased :)
I'm going on Friday but the weather forecast isnt great
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And looked like having a great chance of a ton if they hadn't declared. He looked in a lot less bother than most of the top 6 in the side.
Woakes has a simple technique that clearly works.
Have him bat at 2, 3 or 5 (whoever gets dropped first) and get TRJ in at 9. Problem solved... ;)
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When Woakes wins an Ashes game with bat/ball/both, Seniorplayer is not allowed to celebrate with the rest of us :D
Well you never know he might get two five fors in the third test in the T20 finals apart from 17 off one over he looked fit and firing on his way to six wickets.
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Who scored 61* to help get that good lead?
Thought we were on about bowling
now has 3 50s in 18 tests seem to recall the windes bowlers after Moeens knock were out on there feet
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Alvaro is right woakes dropped fro TRJ
Sad day indeed.
Walking wicket is right.tecnically woakes is as good as we have got.at number 9 on the order thats one helluva bonus
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I wouldn't see the TRJ choice as sinister - perhaps Woakes isn't quite fit enough for a two-innings game. Then it's a sensible decision.
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Can't solely blame Woakes though, the bowling unit as a collective failed to bowl out WI.
Agree but would an inform TRJ took wickets.
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Alvaro is right woakes dropped fro TRJ
Sad day indeed.
Walking wicket is right.tecnically woakes is as good as we have got.at number 9 on the order thats one helluva bonus
Absolutly agree with the bat but isn't he a bowling allrounder.
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I wouldn't see the TRJ choice as sinister - perhaps Woakes isn't quite fit enough for a two-innings game. Then it's a sensible decision.
He has had a side strain that is a nasty injury for a bowler
Going forward if trj has another good game we could see both him and cr in the same team
Dont think it is cast iron one or the other
He has done well so far trj...
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Probably the right decision I'm afraid, Woakes clearly wasn't fully fit in the last game! Shame really, I'm sure he was dead keen to play but obviously wasn't ready and now dropped. Hope this means he'll be playing some first class games rather than carrying drinks...
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They will both be on the plane to Oz, and it's basically a straight choice between the 2. Depends on what the selectors want from their 3rd seamer. Personally I prefer Woakes but can see the merits for TRJ as well.
Nice position to be in having healthy competition for a place in the side.
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Absolutly agree with the bat but isn't he a bowling allrounder.
Ummmm....he's an allrounder. I'm not sure i would describe him as a bowling allrounder.
I dont know to be honest...he does both very well and is a crack fielder
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This is all a lot of fuss about nothing. Woakes is almost certainly the better cricketer (and quite obviously a bowling allrounder!); but Roland-Jones has form and fitness and is a great discovery.
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This is all a lot of fuss about nothing. Woakes is almost certainly the better cricketer (and quite obviously a bowling allrounder!); but Roland-Jones has form and fitness and is a great discovery.
As with any player though it needs to be reflected on the pitch
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Could we see -
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Woakes
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson
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Yes I think we could
You could swap bairstow and woakes round
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I'd be very surprised if we ever saw England line-up like that.
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I'd be very surprised if we ever saw England line-up like that.
So would I... However if England are saying Stokes/Ali are both batsman that just happen to be "good" bowlers too & Woakes is the bowling alrounder surely that means with the squad I listed England are really only picking 4 bowler (Anderson,Broad, TRJ, Woakes (Bowling alrounder) and it's just a helpful luxury that Stokes/Ali bowl too?
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So would I... However if England are saying Stokes/Ali are both batsman that just happen to be "good" bowlers too & Woakes is the bowling alrounder surely that means with the squad I listed England are really only picking 4 bowler (Anderson,Broad, TRJ, Woakes (Bowling alrounder) and it's just a helpful luxury that Stokes/Ali bowl too?
But on that logic they're going in without a "frontline" spinner?
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Good luck with telling Ben Stokes that!
And 'helpful luxury' bowlers should bat in the top five to warrant their places, in any case. This is not club cricket.
I'm sorry, but you're way off the mark.
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But on that logic they're going in without a "frontline" spinner?
The way we're going, there'll soon be no such thing.
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The way we're going, there'll soon be no such thing.
Meanwhile Gary the goat 🐐 has taken 7 wickets in an innings for his 4th Michelle in Asia this calendar year...
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Woakes was chosen to bat at 6 in his first Teat.
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Interesting stat there Alvaro....not sure anyone else caught Agnew and Swann on the radio last test saying CW could open or bat top 4.....I can see where they are coming from myself maybe others can
But woakes or TRJ is not the problem...its finding top order batters who can get runs
Been impressed with Stoneman and Malan not sure about westley myself
Hameed got 85 today and he might not make the ashes but there is a lot invested in him I would suggest.
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Could we see -
Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Woakes
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson
Doubt it
Stokes and Bairstow are guys who have scored big hundreds they would be wasted at at 6&7 in that line up.
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Doubt it
Stokes and Bairstow are guys who have scored big hundreds they would be wasted at at 6&7 in that line up.
I don't understand that senior can you elaborate? Stokes has scored his runs , his brilliant hundreds from that exact position.
Bairstow is quality and has done well second time around from that position
You're saying bat stokes higher is a position he has not score runs in?
Am I missing your point :)
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Good luck with telling Ben Stokes that!
And 'helpful luxury' bowlers should bat in the top five to warrant their places, in any case. This is not club cricket.
I'm sorry, but you're way off the mark.
How am I was off the mark? I'm not saying that would be my side just throwing an XI out for debate...
Is it not the case that England have the luxury of being able to play the extra bowler in tests because of Stokes/Ali's perceived batting ability, the question I would ask on that is if either was injured and couldn't bowl would they still be in the side?? If (like Agnew & Swann have suggested) Woakes is also good enough to bat in the top/middle order too doesn't that give England the ability to put out a team with a balance like I suggested (With the caveat that one of Broad/TRJ/Anderson could be swapped for somebody like Crane)?
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Bairstow, Stokes and Ali should always bat above Woakes because they are better batsmen.
You don't need five seamers - especially not five fairly similar ones.
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I've seen some interesting points that Woakes could be a potential left field opener and Stokes as a number 3, seems crazy initially but the arguments were strong. Can't really remember the arguments but they were strong still.
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Bairstow, Stokes and Ali should always bat above Woakes because they are better batsmen.
You don't need five seamers - especially not five fairly similar ones.
If that's how a batting order is decided why doesn't Root open? And shouldn't Westley be below all of the players you've mentioned...
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When does the test start, it's today isn't it?
Key moments:
Runs for Stoneman / westley / Malan
wickets for TRJ (to prove he can get them on a flatty)
2nd Inngs wickets for Jimmy
I'd like to see westley and Malan get a few overs to see if their spin is up to a bit of 'partnership breaking'
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wickets for TRJ (to prove he can get them on a flatty)
Hasn't he already proven that in most of his home games for the last god knows how long?
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On a flatty, against test opposition.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge TRJ fan, and I want him to get the wickets on a flatty to prove he's the real deal, 'cos I want him to cement the slot for England.
after all, look at the potentials he has snapping at his heels - Woakes, Ball, Plunkett, Wood, Currant, Overton. His is the hardest spot to nail at the moment!
I only wish we had the same list of hopeful opening bats and spinners!
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I don't understand that senior can you elaborate? Stokes has scored his runs , his brilliant hundreds from that exact position.
Bairstow is quality and has done well second time around from that position
You're saying bat stokes higher is a position he has not score runs in?
Am I missing your point :)
Only In the line up quoted due to either Baistow or Stokes not having enough time to make an impact due to could getting stuck with that tail
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If that's how a batting order is decided why doesn't Root open? And shouldn't Westley be below all of the players you've mentioned...
Root could do the openers job but he's a middle order batsman you need a specialist to open.
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If that's how a batting order is decided why doesn't Root open? And shouldn't Westley be below all of the players you've mentioned...
That wasn't exactly what I was saying. I was saying competent batsmen should be able to handle responsibility of being moved up one place in the middle-order.
A factor in Woakes doing well for England with the bat is probably that he hasn't had the pressure on him to do so. He is picked predominantly as a bowler. Is he really a better batsman than Vince or Hales? I don't think so.
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Jesus Christ, Chef
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Is it just me or does that GN Scoop sound like a plank?
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cook can't catch a cold right now
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Is it just me or does that GN Scoop sound like a plank?
Horrible plonk sound!
Anyone else's sound a second behind the action?
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Is it the new 'Gash-Monkey' scoop?
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Hasn't he already proven that in most of his home games for the last god knows how long?
Averages four and half wickets per match.
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That wasn't exactly what I was saying. I was saying competent batsmen should be able to handle responsibility of being moved up one place in the middle-order.
A factor in Woakes doing well for England with the bat is probably that he hasn't had the pressure on him to do so. He is picked predominantly as a bowler. Is he really a better batsman than Vince or Hales? I don't think so.
Yep must be nice to come into bat with 300 plus runs on the board.
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On a flatty, against test opposition.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge TRJ fan, and I want him to get the wickets on a flatty to prove he's the real deal, 'cos I want him to cement the slot for England.
after all, look at the potentials he has snapping at his heels - Woakes, Ball, Plunkett, Wood, Currant, Overton. His is the hardest spot to nail at the moment!
I only wish we had the same list of hopeful opening bats and spinners!
By bringing TRJ back for the third test is this as an admission by the selectors that they were wrong to leave him out in the second test for Woakes
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Ed Smith is in peak winker mode on the wireless again.
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Well. This is dull.
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Well. This is dull.
Yep windes scoring at two and half runs per over.
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Good old chef safe hands that lad
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Toby gets his first wicket after dropping three in a row Cook looks pleased he held it.
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Stokes just makes things happen
Sometimes good sometimes bad but rarely dull when he is the mix
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I smell Calypso Calapso.
Least it's stopped being dull!
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Toby gets the dangerous Blackwood
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That sounds like something from Game of Thrones!
Brave fighting Sir Toby!
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What a ball from Stokes ball coming in straightens nips away and hits the top of off stump.
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https://streamable.com/6wv2j
What a beauty
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No turn there for Moeen With this cloud cover surely time for the king of swing.
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https://streamable.com/6wv2j
What a beauty
Absolute stunner.
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Another one down of Benjie's bowling, Bayliss is gonna be fumming
I predict some sore hands for the next training session
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Another beauty! Bloody hell he's a good player.
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This over from Jimmy is something else!
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Michelle for Stokes!
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Ben 6 for 22 off 15 straight overs and on an hatrick next innings
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Career best figures for Stokes and now on both boards at Lord's.
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Career best figures for Stokes and now on both boards at Lord's.
Not bad for the 4th seamer...
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Anyone notice Stokes' boots?
Is he wearing this/last season white/red model and not the white & lime green model he has worn all season
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Not bad for the 4th seamer...
Not bad for a 'part-time luxury bowler'!
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Not bad for a 'part-time luxury bowler'!
Helpful luxury! No mention of part time!
As I replied but you didn't seem to come up with a response, if Stokes/Alí couldn't bowl would they still be picked for batting alone?? I would hazard a guess that they would, therefore it is a helpful luxury that England have 2 batsman that bowl.
Fail to see how you're disputing this??
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Not bad for the 4th seamer...
They bowled well as a unit
Surely proves the best four seamers England have
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They bowled well as a unit
Surely proves the best four seamers England have
With Woakes, Wood, Ball, Finn, Plunkett & Curran in reserve too we're spoilt for choice in the seam bowling department really
Shame the same cannot be said for spinners or batsmen really
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Sheesh kebab that Gabriel fella has some wheels,93mph! Wouldn't want to face him in the gloom and lights on-or ever for that matter!
Come on Westley!
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Helpful luxury! No mention of part time!
As I replied but you didn't seem to come up with a response, if Stokes/Alí couldn't bowl would they still be picked for batting alone?? I would hazard a guess that they would, therefore it is a helpful luxury that England have 2 batsman that bowl.
Fail to see how you're disputing this??
Stokes would, Ali wouldn't I don't think - he's a good player, but seems to get out softly too often when he's higher up the order, hence why he's at 8 these days! I think you could make a good case for Stokes getting selected for either his batting or bowling alone (and he has been in the past) which is what makes him such a valuable player. Very very rare you get a true all-rounder!
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Helpful luxury! No mention of part time!
As I replied but you didn't seem to come up with a response, if Stokes/Alí couldn't bowl would they still be picked for batting alone?? I would hazard a guess that they would, therefore it is a helpful luxury that England have 2 batsman that bowl.
Fail to see how you're disputing this??
Not bad for a helpful luxury bowler.
No, they would absolutely not be picked as specialist no. 6 and 8 batsnen. With the personnel we currently have they would bat in the top five and extra bowlers would be picked.
Just leave it. Really.
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Gabriel bowling consistently fast here. Testing spell for the English batsmen.
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Not bad for a helpful luxury bowler.
No, they would absolutely not be picked as specialist no. 6 and 8 batsnen. With the personnel we currently have they would bat in the top five and extra bowlers would be picked.
Just leave it. Really.
Right, so they would be picked as batsmen only?
If you're going to 'quote' to be a smart ass don't whinge when you get called up on it.
Let's just enjoy the cricket and the abundance of choice at Joe's disposal!
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Right, so they would be picked as batsmen only?
If you're going to 'quote' to be a smart ass don't whinge when you get called up on it
I really don't see what that's got to do with anything. Stokes is playing as an all-rounder and is clearly much more than a luxury as a bowler.
I'm not whinging, I'm laughing.
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Hameed better be on that plane to aus.
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Hameed better be on that plane to aus.
Well he can't do any worse than Westley poor decision to play that one off the back foot in these conditions.
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We are going to get annihilated in Australia
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I really don't see what that's got to do with anything. Stokes is playing as an all-rounder and is clearly much more than a luxury as a bowler.
I'm not whinging, I'm laughing.
Ben Stokes the complete allrounder.
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Ben Stokes the complete allrounder.
Much like Chris Woakes!
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Ho Joe out for 1 why didn't you send in a night watchman
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Blimey 123 looks plenty.
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Much like Chris Woakes!
Who cannot get in this team !
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We are going to get annihilated in Australia
We are getting annihilated in England.
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bit disappointed in Root of late.. atrocious (by his lofty standards) conversion rate of 50s to 100s... AND he always seems to want to hit / "be positive" his way out of a tough situation.
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Pretty obvious what Westley needs to do to get some runs....go out and buy a load of new bats. Every CBF member knows that!
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With Woakes, Wood, Ball, Finn, Plunkett & Curran in reserve too we're spoilt for choice in the seam bowling department really
Shame the same cannot be said for spinners or batsmen really
Are we though : Woakes lacks consistency Wood fittness issues Ball not quite ready Finn come and gone Plunkett always overlooked Curran looks the part but untested
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Right (he says, exhaling deeply),
Sliding gently past your completely rational dislike of Woakes, I agree on Wood but I believe he still remains on the management's radar, Ball has already played test cricket is a fine bowler and is clearly in their future plans, Finn was called up as an emergency cover just last week, overlooked or not Plunkett is a fine bowler and should have played more tests and Curran is being selected in ODI squads and genuinely performing.
Even by your own 'Carl Fredrickson' standards, this is a superbly curmudgeonly post - are you really trying to contest that we do not have a decent queue of aspiring seamers?
Eeyore rides again :)
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Right (he says, exhaling deeply),
Sliding gently past your completely rational dislike of Woakes, I agree on Wood but I believe he still remains on the management's radar, Ball has already played test cricket is a fine bowler and is clearly in their future plans, Finn was called up as an emergency cover just last week, overlooked or not Plunkett is a fine bowler and should have played more tests and Curran is being selected in ODI squads and genuinely performing.
Even by your own 'Carl Fredrickson' standards, this is a superbly curmudgeonly post - are you really trying to contest that we do not have a decent queue of aspiring seamers?
Eeyore rides again :)
Morning Fattus
Would only use the word aspiring to discribe Curran as we are aware of what the others who have been around a while are capable of.
Also your post does somewhat seem to support mine
As for being curmudgeonly addmittedly I am old as you may be one day but I am niether stubborn grey hair haired or gruff.
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No it doesn't. Your post was questioning that we don't have a decent queue of seamers, and my post attempted to debunk some of your reasons and support my assertation that we do have a decent queue of seamers.
I would suggest you are stubborn (and a little bit curmudgeonly), but clearly have a lush, full head of hair that glistens like spun gold.
I am congenitally stupid - you could always become less stubborn. :D
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Not really stubborn but opinion based on prior knowledge
Also my hair doesn't look like spun gold it's brown and thanks for prompting me I need an haircut
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On today's episode of CBF Grumpy Old Men...
I've never wanted the rain to stop more. Just so I don't have to judge the competition on who can be most grumpy. Loser has to be Chris Woakes for the day.
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I would say so, but then again I'd quite like to watch us have a bat tomorrow.
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On today's episode of CBF Grumpy Old Men...
I've never wanted the rain to stop more. Just so I don't have to judge the competition on who can be most grumpy. Loser has to be Chris Woakes for the day.
But I thought we all unanimously agreed that Chris Woakes should be in the side? ;)
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CRICKET IS BEING PLAYED. I REPEAT. CRICKET IS BEING PLAYED. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
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Keep playing Stokesy! Job is not done yet.
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No better all-rounder right now. Fight me.
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No better all-rounder right now. Fight me.
Bowling could have been better this year as a whole (excluding this test's first innings). Otherwise agreed, can't name another player that competes with him.
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Stunning stuff from woakes
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Stokes!! Haha
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At this point I've got no idea whether we're 1 in front or miles in front...
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At this point I've got no idea whether we're 1 in front or miles in front...
Basically 5-7 at the moment.
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Toby looks in good touch
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Five wickets for Kemar
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Don't see west indies surviving the session tonight, doing far too much!
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Jimmy to get the magical 500th before close of play?
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What an awful drop
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What an awful drop
Dowrich looks about as good a test wicket keeper as I would at the moment (have literally never kept wicket in my life).
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Gotta love broads batting.
Head towards square leg ump, close eyes, swing hard.
Runs!
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Gotta love broads batting.
Head towards square leg ump, close eyes, swing hard.
Runs!
When he connects it flies as well!!
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Something will be missing without Blofeld won't it... ''Broad's batting like a lamppost on a bad day"
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Jimmy Anderson Legend of the game
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Anyone remember the good old days? When England could catch?
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Yes 500 wickets for Jimmy and a good ball to get there nips back and knocks out middle stump.
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Next step 564? If he plays for another year he'll be close... Gerry SA, Felix Tito where are you? 😂
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Our best ever bowler, sometimes it wasn't better 'back in the day'
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As a test bowler, I do like TRJ. he gets good bounce. Be interesting to see how bounce he is on the aus pitches.
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As a test bowler, I do like TRJ. he gets good bounce. Be interesting to see how bounce he is on the aus pitches.
There will be plenty and the ball will fly off the bat lets hope England remember how to catch.
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501 is an absolute jaffer
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There will be plenty and the ball will fly off the bat lets hope England remember how to catch.
On recent evidence they'll be struggling...
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Joe Root is very trigger happy with his reviews, isn't he...
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Ooo jimmys angry, needs to get off the wicket, digging a right hole
Wasted a review there, that was never hitting
Crikey, he got away with loads before he was warned!
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Next step 564? If he plays for another year he'll be close... Gerry SA, Felix Tito where are you? 😂
Must agree for those that have knocked him serious figures 501 wickets at mid 20's a piece, of course home record is better but I'm sure that's the same for all players batting or bowling, serious credit to his fitness as well and every chance he will finish his career as leading seam bowler
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Ooo jimmys angry, needs to get off the wicket, digging a right hole
Wasted a review there, that was never hitting
Crikey, he got away with loads before he was warned!
He always runs all over the danger area and doesn't get warned that often, keep an eye out for it tomorrow and you'll see it repeated.
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Missed a bit of a sitter there Stuart.
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Wicket for Toby ball to full to pull
Hope needs someone to stay in with him
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Absolute rubbish by Dowrich and Blackwood with the game in the balance like this.
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Next step 564? If he plays for another year he'll be close... Gerry SA, Felix Tito where are you? 😂
If he plays 2/3 we could have the first seamer to take 600!