Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: BatGoonMcClintock on October 23, 2017, 04:28:17 PM
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Having got my fill of 2-10 to 2-11 bats and one 2-8.6 RS (which is still on the way to me), I wanted to experiment with a few heavier bats - I wanted them short blade but thick all over, so more meat in the hitting area and better pick up due to more meat higher up the blade.
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I had a custom Red Ink (grade 3) made for me, 3.5 cm shorter blade with mid/low middle and I just left it to John to produce me the best bat possible. What resulted was a 2-11.8lb beauty (with anti-scuff sheet) with a 39mm edge after rounding and a 63mm spine allowing for the face camber and minimal (about 2mm) of concaving on the back. Still legal. The face only had 4 full grains and 2 partial grains but it came fully knocked in and it pings, the pressing is beautiful. Had one net session with it and the balls bit from the middle travel and the ones not hit from the middle will still get 1s and 2s if you find the gap. The back is slightly bumpy in places but who cares. What is impressive is there is no difference in pick up with the lighter 2-10 bats. I've got a fair few, so I suppose I can compare them. I picked up the bat without putting on the scale and it picked up alright, didn't notice any difference. The shorter blade was also not an issue at all once I got used to using the end of the handle as a reference rather than the top of the blade.
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Then over the weekend, I went to see Paul Aldred to get a butterfly made by him. I chose the cleft, it had 2 butterfly stains in the playing area, one faint one and one bigger one, but very straight grains and about 50% heartwood. Given that Paul makes great bats, all I said to Paul was I use 2-10 to 2-11 bats, want a Silver Sovereign but a fuller profile with no concaving and a shorter blade and a very oval handle. I have other bats and so just wanted the best bat Paul could make and not put too many spec restrictions. I specifically didn't want weight to be an issue as made up my mind to do it just based on feel and balance.
Paul asked me to try the bat for balance and pick up as he kept shaving the wood, he settled for a 1/2 inch shorter blade although I asked for 1 inch shorter. What he said was that we could always take wood out of the bat but can't put it back on. So we kept going until I liked the feel and pick up of the bat and Paul finished it up. I had 3 bats that I used in matches with me for comparison for pick up. I did realise that the bat was slightly heavier than my match bats but the balance felt beautiful and I didn't want to change anything. I figured I might as well have a bat on the heavier side as I've also one sub 2.9 bat. The bat just about fit through his bat gauge, 39mm edges after rounding. After it was finished, I played a few drives and it felt beautiful and dare I say powerful and it didn't hurt the bat speed. I'm experimenting with a high, almost vertical backlift to generate more power next season and it didn't feel bad at all.
On my way out, I asked Paul to weight the bat - my jaw dropped when I saw the scale: 2lb 15.8oz, easily 4oz clear of my next heaviest bat. It didn't feel nearly as heavy and in the big scheme of things, that's 100 gm extra. So I resolved to knock it in and net all winter with it to see if I can play all my shots, particularly the cuts and pulls as driving shouldn't be too much of a problem with a heavier bat. I'm netting twice a week up to Christmas, so should be a decent run. The thick and heavy oval handles go a long way in aiding pick up.
The ping on the bat, as can be expected with all Aldred bats, especially a monster, was beautiful. I have changed my mind a bit about dead weight versus pick up. I do reserve the right to change my opinion after netting but I do believe that dead weight sticklers will miss out on otherwise absolutely great bats. If I didn't visit the shop and asked for something of a specific weight, I may have missed out on this beauty.
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Just to compare - a huge profile 2-11 Phantom Illusion versus the Aldred
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Great review. I have a big Red ink and a pair of Aldred butterfly's, great minds think alike. I was ypthinking of getting a Jedi so I would be interested in your thoughts on your one.
I think it will either be a Jedi or a Helygen under the tree for me this Christmas. The daughter will be getting another Red Ink.
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I like the shape of that Aldred
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Great review. I have a big Red ink and a pair of Aldred butterfly's, great minds think alike. I was ypthinking of getting a Jedi so I would be interested in your thoughts on your one.
I think it will either be a Jedi or a Helygen under the tree for me this Christmas. The daughter will be getting another Red Ink.
@Gurujames I can't speak for Helygen but I would strongly recommend the JEDI. JEDI is superb value for money. Mine is their lowest Grade 1 - the Ultimate Grade, the lowest grade for which they will do a custom bat rather than their stock shapes. Looks wise, There's a sliver of heartwood on the inside edge and two specs but otherwise, its very clean and straight grains. But the performance was absolutely superb straight out of the packet, extremely well pressed and it only got better after knocking in. Here's me using it in the nets, I've netted twice with it. Will only get better. My only point will be if you like an oval handle, be specific about it being really oval. I asked for semi-oval and it feels very round. If it had an oval handle, it would've been perfect.
I'm absolutely spoilt for choice for next season.
Me netting with the JEDI, sounds absolutely sweet off the middle.
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/124fok0/9)
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2uf7ztk/9)
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I like the shape of that Aldred
It's an absolute whale of a bat JB @JB, I hope I can make it work because it would be an absolute crime if I have to take weight off. And the ping is absolutely superb, rivals my JEDI straight out of the packet, perhaps a even tad better, and I still need to get it knocked in. And it pings all the way to 'D' on the sticker.
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There's a blank Jedi going cheap in the 'For Sale', I think.
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2lb 7oz though. Great if you want a light one.
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The Aldred looks v nice. Where's the blank Jedi for sale? Do you have a link??
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@BatGoonMcClintock , the Aldred looks amazing! They are excellent bats; I have a G1 butterfly and Paul did a great job with the bat. I would suggest you try out your 2-15 bat for extended nets and see how it feels. Heavy bat pick up light but over a long inning, they begin to weigh arms down. That is my experience. You may have bigger, stronger arms than mine. :)
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@InternalTraining I've found the best way to avoid fatigue is to simply not play a long innings... :-[
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^Hehehehe
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@BatGoonMcClintock , the Aldred looks amazing! They are excellent bats; I have a G1 butterfly and Paul did a great job with the bat. I would suggest you try out your 2-15 bat for extended nets and see how it feels. Heavy bat pick up light but over a long inning, they begin to weigh arms down. That is my experience. You may have bigger, stronger arms than mine. :)
@InternalTraining It certainly seems so, the grains are straight and evenly spaced, two butterfly stains in the playing area, not the world's worst pick up for such a heavy bat, infact, I can feel no difference in the vertical bat swing and speed though I know I'm swinging something heavier - horizontal bat shots remain to be tested in the nets. My net sessions are an hour on the bowling machine, so if that doesn't tire me out and doesn't affect my batting shape, timing and technique, then I reckon I've got a winner. I reckon if I face 100 deliveries in a game before getting tired, I'd have done alright!
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You cannot go wrong with Finish & Ping of Aldred bats. I am not a believer of his light pickup theory to push his heavy bats.
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You may not have posted enough to be able to view the 'For Sale' thread. It's going for £70.
Ah I see, I did wonder why I couldn't find it. That's a shame, his bats look nice.
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I am not a believer of his light pickup theory to push his heavy bats.
I am. My Supreme has quite a high middle and a duckbill and it does pickup well. I find cross batted shots easy and it's performance is rivalled only by my Red Ink.
I don't think he pushes heavy bats as such. I think he suggests ignoring dead weight and going by feel. It was a revelation for me and I haven't looked back since.
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I am. My Supreme has quite a high middle and a duckbill and it does pickup well. I find cross batted shots easy and it's performance is rivalled only by my Red Ink.
I don't think he pushes heavy bats as such. I think he suggests ignoring dead weight and going by feel. It was a revelation for me and I haven't looked back since.
@Gurujames I was on the fence on this as well. However, having 8 bats around the same weight and knowing that Aldred made a fantastic butterfly, I just wanted him to make me one without me imposing restrictions on him. I took 3 of my bats with me to get a feel and compare the pick up of the one he was making. I made it a point to never look at the scale. Just wanted something big and solid and that pinged and that was within ball park of the rest in terms of pick up. And while the bat he made felt a bit heavier, I didn't mind because it still felt great. I never thought it would be 5oz higher than the rest of the bats! So yes, I am a convert. He never pushed anything on me. He only suggested a thicker oval handle than the other bats because he said thicker handles meant more power transmitted to the ball.
It's easy to see where the extra weight is and why it doesn't matter as much. Off the 5 oz extra weight, about 2 is in the handle, another 1 to 1.5 is in the top of the bat (shoulder, splice, sticker) where it is noticeably thicker than other bats and only 1.5 to 2 oz on the blade which still makes for a thick blade. The toe on my bat is 31mm at the center, 25mm toe on the edge, edges are 39.5 mm, there's a 3-4mm camber on the face. So it is a massive bat but doesn't feel like it because it is beautifully balanced with the extra weight distributed evenly across the bat. The balance point on the Aldred is also about a 0.5 inch higher than some of my other bats. And I think the axe-like handle makes a huge difference in how the bat picks up and feels. And it's the axe-handle that gives it the solidity that others have mentioned.
If you request a lower weight, Aldred can't bring these factors into play that make the bat feel good. I'm optimistic, I can experiment because I've got other bats that work for me and if I can get this to work, it will be a welcome additional to the arsenal, a howitzer to the pistol collection.
I get it that Aldred is not everyone's cup of tea with the heavier dead weight bats but the lighter pick up is definitely not (No Swearing Please). I had no pressure to pick up my bat, if I wasn't happy, I could've asked him to shave off a few ounces from the bat. Yes, I was taken aback by the scale weight when I first saw it but the more I swung the bat around, the more I wanted to give it a chance as it really didn't feel THAT heavy.
I will say that if you haven't had a bat made by him in person and seen the process, you are doing him a huge disservice by disparaging his skill in producing a balanced bat. At the end of the day, it's a good performing bat that counts regardless of weight. And if you can swing a 3lb bat the same way as a 2lb 10oz bat, why would you give up that advantage?
Good to see a bit of experimentation with different bats over the Winter :)
I thought I was settled but having handled a few Aldred's at the CBF net I think I might give one a go, mainly for the handle and very "solid" feel. The rebound of a ball was also consistently very good across all bats I've seen from him. The next most similar in feel in general would be Hunts I reckon as both feel like very sturdy bits of kit. The handles just tip it in Aldred's favour though and is the main reason I'd like to try one.
I'm not sure I could cope with getting a custom direct though as the might be some differing opinions on a few things ;) I may have to badger some forumites at the next CBF net instead :)
@DorsetDan Yes, I second that, winter is for experimenting. Totally agree with you and @Gurujames on the handle making the difference in feel and immensely aiding pickup. I also feel that an Aldred handle works better and differently than putting on an extra 3 grips, I used 2 grips on my bats before and absolutely hated it and this doesn't feel the same. Another bat with a thick oval handle is my Hunts and lo and behold, that picks up awful light as well. Several people have said the Hunts picks up better than my BB even though it weighs 0.7 oz more.
When is the next CBF nets and where? If it is indoors and within say 30 miles, I might have a go. You should definitely get an Aldred personally if you get a chance.
I only had a quite feel of a couple but they were all right up there as some of the best balanced bats I've had my hands on. I would say they have more in common with a TK/ Newbery "weightless" feel as compared to the Aldred/ Hunts "rod of steel solidness" feel. Feel is such a personal thing but that would be my impression. No idea on performance or durability of Jedi (which judging by old forum posts may be the only thing to watch)
@DorsetDan I would second your view of the JEDI, very well balanced and pressed to provide an awesome ping. Soft pressed so needs more knocking in. In terms of ping out of the packet, the Aldred and JEDI stand out from my other bats which are not too shabby either. Can't comment on durability but hopefully we will know in a year.
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Personally I have 2 Jedi bats (a Zaramx and and Abalest) in lower grades (Elite). They both pick up really well and the ball fly's off.
As I'm sure you are aware I have also handled a few Aldred's and they are well made and do have very thick oval handles as standard. Personally I thought they picked up closer to their dead weight but again that is my opinion and bats feel different to everyone.
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I've said this before, but this forum was established to support batmakers like Jedi and Aldred. :)
I've only used one of his bats, but I sometimes wonder if Paul Aldred is being punished for being too good at his job? In days gone by, cricketers (even pros) did not know how much their bat weighed; they just chose them by picking up a few and going with one that felt right.
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I too have had experience with Aldreds... I do like Paul's thick oval handles, I'm a two and a half grips man anyway. I haven't used/owned any Aldreds, but have knocked two in and refurb'd one (both owned by a lad at our club). They do pick up nice, feeling just under their dead weight, certainly the Spectre does. But, having three JEDi with a fourth on the way, I can't speak highly enough of the quality and service, having met James, been to the workshop, etc. Also, TCB have sorted me out with three of those (technically two, with one on the way!) and the service is fantastic, almost bespoke. Top bats for the money, not sure there are any bats out there offering the same value for money and performance, with the lower grades being offered for peanuts, you can choose your cleft, etc. Can't speak highly enough of TCB.
Three JEDI with one on the way.... I guess it's a case of may the fourth be with you.
Personally I have 2 Jedi bats (a Zaramx and and Abalest) in lower grades (Elite). They both pick up really well and the ball fly's off.
As I'm sure you are aware I have also handled a few Aldred's and they are well made and do have very thick oval handles as standard. Personally I thought they picked up closer to their dead weight but again that is my opinion and bats feel different to everyone.
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Some pros still don't.... Quinton de Kock for example. He has no idea what his bats actually weigh.
I've said this before, but this forum was established to support batmakers like Jedi and Aldred. :)
I've only used one of his bats, but I sometimes wonder if Paul Aldred is being punished for being too good at his job? In days gone by, cricketers (even pros) did not know how much their bat weighed; they just chose them by picking up a few and going with one that felt right.
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I've said this before, but this forum was established to support batmakers like Jedi and Aldred. :)
I've only used one of his bats, but I sometimes wonder if Paul Aldred is being punished for being too good at his job? In days gone by, cricketers (even pros) did not know how much their bat weighed; they just chose them by picking up a few and going with one that felt right.
@Bats_Entertainment Certainly seems like it...within reason, I think dead weighters are missing out....What possible difference is there between 2-8 and 2-11...that's 84 grams or a packet and a half of crisps...is anyone really saying that anyone can tell that difference?...It's most certainly feel....I think people like a bat's feel, weight it and then think it's the weight that's the most important.
I've used the Jedi and I second @moonball and @TCB sentiments....in fact, he's a hidden gem is James Dollive though with IJC popularising Viking, he won't be a secret for much longer. Having said that, I think I'm confident that if I walked out with any one of my 8 bats, they will do just fine.
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@Bats_Entertainment Certainly seems like it...within reason, I think dead weighters are missing out....What possible difference is there between 2-8 and 2-11...that's 84 grams or a packet and a half of crisps...are you really saying that anyone can tell that difference?...It's most certainly feel....I think people like a bat's feel, weight it and then think it's the weight that's the most important.
I've used the Jedi and I second @moonball and @TCB sentiments....in fact, he's a hidden gem is James Dollive though with IJC popularising Viking, he won't be a secret for much longer. Having said that, I think I'm confident that if I walked out with any one of my 8 bats, they will do just fine.
You are somewhat correct about this although In my case, I use a weight that is the top-end of my physical ability without impacting my timing. I have top edged very quick short balls (when pulling) in the grill of helmet using a bat two ounce heavier than my regular weight. I am able to hit sixes just fine with my regular weight bat or an ounce lighter. There difference between a 2-13.4 and a 2-11.0 bat is negligible but it slows me down a little when it comes to facing quicks. The "feel" bit is subjective but I have noticed a tangible difference in my response time.
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I too have had experience with Aldreds... I do like Paul's thick oval handles, I'm a two and a half grips man anyway. I haven't used/owned any Aldreds, but have knocked two in and refurb'd one (both owned by a lad at our club). They do pick up nice, feeling just under their dead weight, certainly the Spectre does. But, having three JEDi with a fourth on the way, I can't speak highly enough of the quality and service, having met James, been to the workshop, etc. Also, TCB have sorted me out with three of those (technically two, with one on the way!) and the service is fantastic, almost bespoke. Top bats for the money, not sure there are any bats out there offering the same value for money and performance, with the lower grades being offered for peanuts, you can choose your cleft, etc. Can't speak highly enough of TCB.
Three JEDI with one on the way.... I guess it's a case of may the fourth be with you.
Thanks :D
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A note on Aldred - just because he makes a lot of heavy bats doesn't mean he only makes hevay bats, my Silver Sovereign is 2.10 fully dressed and a beauty, and I've had hands on several others of similar or lighter weight. I will say that I'm not nearly such a fan of the heavy/super light pickup ones though, the feel isn't quite what I like.
More topically, the Red Ink's a beaut!
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A note on Aldred - just because he makes a lot of heavy bats doesn't mean he only makes hevay bats, my Silver Sovereign is 2.10 fully dressed and a beauty, and I've had hands on several others of similar or lighter weight. I will say that I'm not nearly such a fan of the heavy/super light pickup ones though, the feel isn't quite what I like.
More topically, the Red Ink's a beaut!
The Red Ink was superb in the first hit, there are a few cherry marks on the edge but a few off the middle as well and those were right out of the screws. And it's 2-11.8 but because of the shorter blade, doesn't seem heavy at all, felt no different than using my 2-10 BB
The Aldred has a shorter blade as well. Perhaps this helps pick up a bit.
In any event, I'm not taking any chances and I'm hitting the gym hard and will net with the heavier Aldred but also practice with the lighter bats and see how I get on with them and what pace is too quick for the slower reaction speeds of a heavier bat. In my league, the main problem is the slow dibbly dobblers, not the express guys. Very few top 65 mph. So the Aldred is meant to be an enforcer for the spinners and the 55mph outswing bowlers. I might even swap bats midway through an innings, start with a light weight bat and after seeing off the opening quicks (if I survive), call for the enforcer. On the other hand, if the quicks keep it up, the Aldred will be very handy playing punchy drives. Decisions, decisions....or mental masturbation...depending on your point of view.
The plan is to work on the fitness and use the extra strength to deal with the heavier bats. Perhaps in doing so, I will improve the bat speed on my lighter bats. But hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained. The Aldred is a science project as much as anything else, All for science!
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55mph out-swingers.... you've seen me bowl then!
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55mph out-swingers.... you've seen me bowl then!
I hate the 50mph outswingers even more....can never get them away, no pace at all to work with and my timing on slow bowling is rubbish unless it's a rank half volley.
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Thanks for the feedback, glad it went well in the first net.
The weight vs pick up conversation is an interesting one. Yes there is very little in terms of actual weight difference between 2-3 oz as others have said but it’s down to how heavy it feels. For me personally, I think there is a suitable range for everyone within 1-2oz. Anything above or below this weight will impact on how you feel as the innings goes on or your shot timings . How the bat picks up may help sway you to heavier or light bats. I think a lot of people work on a ideal weight and could probably cope adding or taking away an oz or 2. Anything more than this and I think it’s then going to start to impact shots and timing.
4oz above your normal bat for me is pushing it, but who’s to say what your are used to and comfortable with is right for you? If you are happy with the heavier weight then that’s fine. As batsman, we normally find the smallest excuse as to why we aren’t scoring runs so tend to stick to what we know. Maybe the heavier bat will suit your style
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Thanks for the feedback, glad it went well in the first net.
The weight vs pick up conversation is an interesting one. Yes there is very little in terms of actual weight difference between 2-3 oz as others have said but it’s down to how heavy it feels. For me personally, I think there is a suitable range for everyone within 1-2oz. Anything above or below this weight will impact on how you feel as the innings goes on or your shot timings . How the bat picks up may help sway you to heavier or light bats. I think a lot of people work on a ideal weight and could probably cope adding or taking away an oz or 2. Anything more than this and I think it’s then going to start to impact shots and timing.
4oz above your normal bat for me is pushing it, but who’s to say what your are used to and comfortable with is right for you? If you are happy with the heavier weight then that’s fine. As batsman, we normally find the smallest excuse as to why we aren’t scoring runs so tend to stick to what we know. Maybe the heavier bat will suit your style
@Red Ink Cricket You're welcome John, was a pleasure dealing with you and what a nice bat you've made!
This whole winter is one big science project for me and I'm going to experiment with bat weights, playing style, becoming more aggressive, etc. Hopefully the heavy bat won't impact timing, I know the Red Ink won't be an issue as the net session suggested. That Aldred on the other hand, seems promising so far but will reserve final judgement until after a few sessions. Would be such a shame if I need to concave it to take weight off.
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Can i be cheeky and ask what sort of price range these bats fall into?
Surely they can't be as good as that 900 quid GN knocking about ;)
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I've never seen or used a £900 bat and until the year 2030 I don't expect to. I think for most club cricketers we want a great performing bat and from personal experience the sub £200 bats that I have from both Red Ink and Aldred (amongst others) more than meet the bill.
£700 + change price difference makes it a simple choice in my mind. You also need to consider the mental anguish of a full blooded edge leading to a slight edge crack in a £900 bat.
At the end of the day you can do what you like with your own money but I think most sensible people see little if any difference in well made bats that are at opposite ends of the price spectrum.
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I've never seen or used a £900 bat and until the year 2030 I don't expect to. I think for most club cricketers we want a great performing bat and from personal experience the sub £200 bats that I have from both Red Ink and Aldred (amongst others) more than meet the bill.
£700 + change price difference makes it a simple choice in my mind. You also need to consider the mental anguish of a full blooded edge leading to a slight edge crack in a £900 bat.
At the end of the day you can do what you like with your own money but I think most sensible people see little if any difference in well made bats that are at opposite ends of the price spectrum.
Amen to that. £900 quid for some shaped wood. Seriously.
Both of these bats look fantastic shapes and have been hand crafted from two top quality makers - these are the sorts of batmakers we should all be supporting and pushing to others IMHO, not companies with sky high prices because they paying a fortune in sponsorships.
I look forward to hearing how they get on performance wise once they're bedding in.
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Amen to that. £900 quid for some shaped wood. Seriously.
Both of these bats look fantastic shapes and have been hand crafted from two top quality makers - these are the sorts of batmakers we should all be supporting and pushing to others IMHO, not companies with sky high prices because they paying a fortune in sponsorships.
I look forward to hearing how they get on performance wise once they're bedding in.
@jamesisapayne Agreed...I can confirm both bats are sub-£200 as are 8 of my 10 bats, several are sub-150 and one was sub-100. I haven't knocked in the Aldred yet but will use it against a bowling machine and some throwdowns tomorrow, the edges were rounded by Paul and I won't be using the toe against the bowling machine, so will be testing for ease of use. Tomorrow cannot arrive quick enough.
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How is dukes bat performance ,any good ?