Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Cricket Manufacturers / Brands => Kippax Cricket => Topic started by: Ams4287 on November 24, 2017, 09:38:53 PM
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As I posted in the Black Friday thread I work a couple of miles from Kippax so thought I’d swing by for a look see at the latest profiles and share some photos with you guys who aren’t so local.
I’ve been a few times over the years to Kippax and it’s always nice to see a setup being able to do the whole process from tree to a finished bat - you can see more photos of the work the 3 guys do on their website or social media.
Ok the bats - both the colossus and problade are SH but a 1” shorter blade which I appreciate isn’t for everyone but designed as such after feedback from there professional customers / sponsored pros. I’d class the Colussus as a more even spread of willow so whilst the middle may not be as high as the problade there’s a more even covering for the club cricketers who use more of the blade :D the colussus I used from a couple of seasons ago was a little bottom heaven but picked up ok as it’s a mid middle the new shape with a duckbillesque toe does solve that in my opinion.
The problade is what it says it’s the profile the fair majority of the pros use (albeit the may use even shorter blades) and is a very full profile with no concaving, again with a good pickup. If I were to choose it’s the one I’d pick. For the weights both are big bats based on the drying process as explained in another thread. There were a few very light Santa grails in which had the duckbill and a slightly high spine (looks like the profile a certain English wicket keeper uses).
Ok enough waffle a few pics that should show the profile differences
(https://s26.postimg.org/q2e3n9jzp/B26_C5_E24-5705-41_B8-8_EB0-09054_CB9_B963.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q2e3n9jzp/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/85ypz4x9x/736_DE67_E-105_D-4_DF4-98_D4-9_F9_F18_ECC609.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/85ypz4x9x/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5d5if3wxh/EE22_FAAC-0567-4486-_B9_CB-_D7_C5_C9071789.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5d5if3wxh/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/i5tmf18j9/88_C5_D148-_E178-4_E1_A-8_AC0-_CCC82_CE4_C6_F9.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i5tmf18j9/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/vvjka369h/CD75061_F-_FABB-46_DF-9_D48-_B3236072_DFA3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vvjka369h/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/9ibtna5bp/4251_E3_CF-7_CE6-4509-995_B-9_DE3713_CD895.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9ibtna5bp/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5walodoc5/01453_A26-_FB6_E-49_E9-9191-_B8_C844_B9908_F.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5walodoc5/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5m33519px/56_A17_FC2-5423-4_DBA-8_F6_A-_F28_E00211_DA3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5m33519px/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/4ep5ctjlh/879_B0_A33-5641-462_C-_A4_E4-13_CF9_E3_EC8_CC.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4ep5ctjlh/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/ov4r8sj91/03_E313_D2-8835-4_B58-_B3_D8-4_B70_D6_E17_AA4.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ov4r8sj91/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5rbfsg6et/485_BEE7_D-917_A-4_A37-8_D19-42_DD3_D420_EE6.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5rbfsg6et/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/61iybsl11/ADA4040_B-_C4_FB-4_AB1-996_F-_B58_B38_C1_AAD6.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/61iybsl11/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/7f5ztcuwl/8_A850_FD0-512_B-47_B6-971_E-75737_A91_B710.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7f5ztcuwl/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/nautwnlh1/84_C628_F9-_CDC4-4_D10-8128-31632_D12_B1_A3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nautwnlh1/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5sgs84iut/277_D02_D4-_E199-44_E0-96_E4-671349_DC489_D.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5sgs84iut/)
The softs for 2018 that Stoneman is using are due is the next 1-2 weeks.
Thanks to James and Chris for there hospitality (sorry I missed Mark @TCB who was picking bats earlier in the day).
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You didn't miss much. I'm not that interesting. ;)
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You didn't miss much. I'm not that interesting. ;)
Lol now now Mark - hopefully catch you in a couple of weeks at stumps
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@Ams4287 - Could you post high resolution pictures?
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(https://s26.postimg.org/69lqzneyh/FB0_F16_BD-_EA88-4_E07-_B45_B-2_DCAC515_B1_FF.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f4mla63qt/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/4lmll012x/3_F083_A6_D-4_EE1-4_A85-_B8_D6-_C5987_C15_DB6_B.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/60o69q25x/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/grbsvefsp/C628_E98_F-4273-4082-_A342-1_FA03942_E2_A8.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cuygzeut1/)
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(https://s26.postimg.org/5ql944cxl/0_E2_E982_D-4_DF1-4397-_A03_C-_A792_E5_A9_BBCD.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5dtuxxunp/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5ixm7m1yx/0_E4_B33_BA-76_DF-4081-_BBD6-41130_FE4_F8_AD.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dbo9zl7xx/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/uz62xshvd/167_F12_FC-_CB67-4_C24-999_C-324432_FCC22_A.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qd9ypfwc5/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/jljjml7cp/1986_E150-9_B23-4695-_B415-_DFCC507_FBFB9.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5rv6xjer9/)
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(https://s26.postimg.org/4vu44cfp5/2295864_C-2_F6_F-413_B-_ADDD-_B7442_A18_F473.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/szkvsmy5x/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/d1grg8tbt/37_D6_B5_C0-_C50_D-4_EC6-_B192-376_E3648_A033.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/khg121h11/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/8thdtr2ih/432178_E3-968_C-445_C-88_B7-_DF9_F10_C89_F92.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r91ur5gmt/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/6xulildo9/5_C1009_D7-7_B11-4_EC0-_B554-4_D936570_F9_E7.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/68bt68d4l/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/epbbh5htl/97_B5_CF36-5_AD8-4482-8_DDE-13_EEEF6152_BD.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/t8igikayd/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/42m3pgz21/C519_E58_D-_E659-4_D44-_AEFB-05_DD0_B1_D8749.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ecoiopoxh/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/bxwn4a8op/C6633_D1_F-_BDDF-4_ED6-_AC08-_AFEE805700_E2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hyuc1cvat/)
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ouekkgprt/C92_AE229-_CA5_A-468_B-_B845-_F3_DB594_A6_E02.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/98x90idth/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5coii9i7t/5_E8_B6732-_B643-4688-92_E2-497283_ACF5_F2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hrbail9px/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/yqfnk3vjt/C41_B087_C-_B5_C6-43_C3-9138-5_AD023_E19_D11.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9kepd9u9h/)
How’s that?
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How much were the butterflies?
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Good photos. A few butterfly's in there too.
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They sell their bats based on performance not grade of willow so I assume they are all £350.
See pg 2 http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=43350.15 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=43350.15)
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They sell their bats based on performance not grade of willow so I assume they are all £350.
See pg 2 [url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=43350.15[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=43350.15[/url])
Yep (or -£100 with a bag). Talking to James about this he mentioned they find that visitors to the factory tend to pick up the less aesthetically pleasing bats as they’re picking on performance / rebound - not wanting to start a mass debate some will agree some won’t.
There was a fair old mix but then it’s willow.
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"graded on performance" (let's not open that can of worms) or not, if you pay £350 for a butterfly you need your head seen to!
Technically speaking, butterfly stained wood is the "lowest" grade...
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Rather steep if you ask me, for £350 you want something that's very pleasing on the eye and performs extremely well
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I would have been keen on a colossus but seeing all those two tone /half heartwood bats is a real put off , let alone the butterfly stained ones .
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Does kippax have a grade lower than players grade ? If not , i cant even see how these are graded on performance as there would be no other grade for lesser bats to be put into . If they do have a lower grade then fair enough , but it would not be for me .
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I've seen some lovely kippax bats over the years, but not overly enamoured with that selection and especially at those prices!
They would have to put the ball 'through' Ijc,s ceiling for me to part with 350quid!
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what do most manufacturers charge for butterfly bats?
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£120-£175
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Poor Mr Kippax!
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Devils advocate here. To be fair the same amount of work/attention to detail goes into making the bats regardless of the grade. Also, butterfly grade is probably as rare as grade 1 so based on scarcity, the pricing is right.
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Thought I'd make one comment as I did the visit report so to speak - I don't want to cause countless ping pong posts that's for sure.
I did see some very clean sapwood bats, ones with heartwood and others with butterfly stains or more character as you can see in the pics. Aesthetically for sure there was some difference - pricing wise that's up to batmaker and the customer if they want to buy it. I'm sure if you had any request 8-10 grains and no heartwood or whatever Kippax (or a local forum member) would pick it out for you. It's all very subjective - all I would say is whilst it's a forum and things can and should be debated we've seen over the years that forum sponsors have stopped posting and in certain quarters ended there association. Let's not have a repeat of that with Kippax who have stated they intended to have a greater presence moving forward.
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The biggest, lightest bat for its size that I have is struggling to win beauty pageants. So it goes I guess.
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Most people just want a cricket bat to help them score runs.
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I've visited Kippax and bought and used their bats and always been very happy with the service and performance.
I've just finished Douglas A. Watlings book, The Life And Times of The Cricket Bat Willow and I have a question that I'm genuinely interested to hear the answer of.
Kippax are predominantly a willow merchant, not a bat maker. When selling their clefts to batmakers, do they also price on performance over looks?
I'm sure not everyone uses Mr Watlings willow grading process, but he grades, super best, best, seconds, thirds & fourths/common willow.
A lot of the butterfly willow, heavily coloured and uneven grained clefts would be classed as fourths/common willow and would basically be the lowest grade and sold to batmakers at the cheapest price.
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we have over 100 bats in our show room plenty of different looking bats to cover all bases. not every customer likes the same weight and look. the best looking bats or grade one willow is not always the best performing bat, we dont advertise or sell bar stain or butterfly bats we just make some as a option for customers visiting our factory because in our opinion we find that the not so good looking bats ie butterfly stain bats tend to perform better than bats with 10+ grains.
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@Kippax does a butterfly bat cost the same as an all spawood bat?
the best looking bats or grade one willow is not always the best performing bat
Being controversial, as you grade on performance would a "grade 1 bat" be priced lower than a butterfly on performance alone?
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all our bats cost the same apart from our sancta grail
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Thanks :)
Best ask Santa for some bat money
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we have over 100 bats in our show room plenty of different looking bats to cover all bases. not every customer likes the same weight and look. the best looking bats or grade one willow is not always the best performing bat, we dont advertise or sell bar stain or butterfly bats we just make some as a option for customers visiting our factory because in our opinion we find that the not so good looking bats ie butterfly stain bats tend to perform better than bats with 10+ grains.
Not sure if that was in reply to my post @Kippax or a general post to all forum members?
Either way, my post/question was more one regarding the willow you supply to batmakers, not the bats you supply to individuals?
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yes that was just a general answer to everyone. we sell clefts on looks to other company's we also grade in that style we have lots of grade one bats in our showroom we dont force anyone to buy bats or tell them what to they should buy either.
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yes that was just a general answer to everyone. we sell clefts on looks to other company's we also grade in that style we have lots of grade one bats in our showroom we dont force anyone to buy bats or tell them what to they should buy either.
That's fine @Kippax thanks.
The Colossus I handpicked for myself and used for 2 seasons had a clean face and a butterfly stain on the back. I selected it on initial pickup and performance off the mallet.
I also have a Problade on order, although not for myself, for a teammate. He's not a forum member so will probably be expecting a nice looker! ;)
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lots of our pros are going for bats with knots,heartwood,butterfly,bair stain because they want something that will help them score runs and not so fussed on looks but i understand £350 is a lot to customers buying bats so its there choice and opinion what they choose thats why we have lots of grade one clean bats in our showroom also
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Remember a £350 sub continent made bat, supports large profit margins because of poverty level labour rates. You buy what you like, if you don’t like the price, don’t buy. My £350 would go to one of the forum sponsors or a UK maker be it Kippax G&M or H4L to name a few.
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I'm firmly in the "£350 = Sapwood/10 grain minimum" camp.
But I can see someone less vain than myself being completely sold on a butterfly that pings better than the pageant winner. I wish I could bring myself to do it, alas I can't.
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the best looking bats or grade one willow is not always the best performing bat, we dont advertise or sell bar stain or butterfly bats we just make some as a option for customers visiting our factory because in our opinion we find that the not so good looking bats ie butterfly stain bats tend to perform better than bats with 10+ grains.
Now this is very interesting!
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I don't really understand some of the comments being made.
Kippax clearly say they rate their clefts on performance, they have an abundance of bats for people to select one they think looks the best.
But would you pay £350 (£250 in the sale) for a bat that was really responsive but looked like a pig, or £350 (£250 in the sale) for a lovely 22 straight grain sapwood that vibrates up the handle and a middle the size of a 5p piece?
I understand you want something pretty for your hard earned cash, but maybe we are missing a trick....
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I just dont understand how one can grade by performance when there's only one grade . It's like 'everyone gets a trophy day' . I'm happy to concede grading by performance over looks , if that's what a batmaker or customer wants then that's fine , I just don't see there being any grading done per se . Am I missing something/am I wrong about this ?
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The way I read it is, we grade all our bats the same, as some will look better than others and some might perform better than others.
Then you turn up, pick whichever one is your favourite, pay your money then ride off into the sunset...
Grading is so subjective and ridiculous, this at this seems like a pretty decent way of doing it.
I'll go and get my hard hat ready to be shouted down! :D
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I hope, in future, none of you complain about a 350 GBP bat that performs but looks ugly ;)
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how ever you look at it someone is always going to have a different opinion the name of our bats are pro blade player edition and colossus player edition we make bats that we think are good enough for professional players how ever we still have bats that are cosmetically good with plenty of grains just everyone has different preferences.
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Interesting discussion this one. What happens to bats you make that do not meet the expectations of your 'Pro Grade'? I mean, are you able to judge performance from cleft stage, and sell the other clefts to other makers? Or do bats get made, and rejected when they don't perform?
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Very interesting this one
Performance is very subjective.
I'm sure, and I could be wrong, ace used to grade on performance too
Two bats only, two prices, grade one and two.
If they said it was a grade one, it was as sure as anything gonna perform.
If it's left this way, it sure makes bat buying a lot easier, and I don't have a problem with the price.
BUT,,,,they better be the best performing bats available at that price point
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when they are in cleft form you can not really tell performance only looks. you can tell more after the bat is pressed, this is the most important part of getting the best preforming bats and every company do this different.
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when they are in cleft form you can not really tell performance only looks. you can tell more after the bat is pressed, this is the most important part of getting the best preforming bats and every company do this different.
Do you think it is possible that the bigger manufacturers press the good looking clefts to perform better? By which I mean, to justify their pricing?
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Oooooh, Can. Open. Worms. Everywhere! :o
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Seems very much the right person to ask.
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we press all looking clefts we still have glamours that performance is good not saying any of our bats are bad just sometimes the ugly bats seem to be more responsive we tend to find that we get most of our lighter and better performing bats are between 6-8 grains and would probably be classed as a grade 2/3 if grading in cleft form. all grains on a bat really tells you is how old the tree is and generally the more grains the heavier the bat. you can go buy a bat from a retail shop that might be 10+ grains pay £500 for a bat that could be a plank and majority theses days are made in india and Pakistan and ship over for cheap and mass production.
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What happens if you don’t judge a bat to meet these standards?
Surely there are a large percentage of bats which you think aren’t good enough?
Not trying to be a dick, genuinely interested!
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The width of the grain shows how quickly the tree how grown. No?
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we have a wide range to pick from and the way we have improved and changed the way we are pressing to be honest we hardly ever get any that dont meet our standers we set. with the amount of pros in county cricket and the international stage using our we are only getting positive feedback at the momenent
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we have a wide range to pick from and the way we have improved and changed the way we are pressing to be honest we hardly ever get any that dont meet our standers we set. with the amount of pros in county cricket and the international stage using our we are only getting positive feedback at the momenent
My apologies, I am confused. You said that a performance of a cleft can only be determined once its pressed. So how do you pick a cleft for pressing? also lets say you pressed 20 and found 1 not to be up to your standard, what happens to that "one" pressed cleft that is sub-par?
Or are you saying that you can pick any cleft and press it to perfection so that all your bats perform just as well? do you guarantee performance? if yes what is measure of this performance? thanks in advance, I am intrigued.
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Whats the lightest weight colossal that you make
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we tend to pick clefts that are grade one or very close to grade one then we also pick some that we think would be good for our pros. and yes you can press most bats to make good performance the odd one we just give away to a friend or throw away if we feel that its not good enough but not done that in well over a year now
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all our super light colossus have been bought over the weekend at the moment the lightest we have is 2.9
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@Kippax thanks, what your saying is VERY interesting.
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no worries if you need to know anything else drop me a private message
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all our super light colossus have been bought over the weekend at the moment the lightest we have is 2.9
Hope my order from Friday was included in this sold list @Kippax 😉
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of course like to think we gave everyone what they asked for
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we tend to pick clefts that are grade one or very close to grade one then we also pick some that we think would be good for our pros. and yes you can press most bats to make good performance the odd one we just give away to a friend or throw away if we feel that its not good enough but not done that in well over a year now
Can we be friends? :) if not, then where is the throw away bin :D
And thank you for answering my questions. I assume this means your guarantee performance!!
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we try to guarantee performance but can not always keep everyone happy as everyone has a different opinion i make all bats as if i was making it for my self so every bat gets great amount of attention.
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we press all looking clefts we still have glamours that performance is good not saying any of our bats are bad just sometimes the ugly bats seem to be more responsive we tend to find that we get most of our lighter and better performing bats are between 6-8 grains and would probably be classed as a grade 2/3 if grading in cleft form. all grains on a bat really tells you is how old the tree is and generally the more grains the heavier the bat. you can go buy a bat from a retail shop that might be 10+ grains pay £500 for a bat that could be a plank and majority theses days are made in india and Pakistan and ship over for cheap and mass production.
Can vouch for that I've just been using wainwright's bat during my session with him today and it's 7 grains pretty light and huge. Also the more grains the more weight would make sense if I compared my bats to that logic
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genuinely the more grains just means the older the tree and that normally makes the wood more dense so it will be heavier, people thinks more grains makes it perform better but like i say you could ask 10 different people about what makes the best bats and all 10 could give you a different answer but what we seem to be doing over the last two years seems to be working well.
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Some Bats Perform Better Than Others Shocker. :o
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I’m heading down the A1 tomorrow for a meeting, hopefully I’ll have time to call in!
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be good to see you
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Hats off to whoever it is at Kippax answering all these questions! Really interesting discussion this, thank you. Next time I'm up north I'll be sure to drop in.
Great to see your bats on TV by the way. Hope that sales are going on the right direction.
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thank you just trying to enlighten people with a little bit of the knowledge i know about willow trees and bats
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Don't get me wrong, I do like a nice looking bat but it really isn't the number one factor for me. I've got a few bats that wouldn't conform to everyone's idea of a good looker but when I picked them up the balance was perfect and they go like trains. That's all I need.
I've had loads of opposition come up and tell me that the bat im using sounds like a cannon, I'm yet to have someone come up to me and comment on the looks