Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: NT50 on December 11, 2017, 12:10:58 AM
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Hello everyone!
At training on Thursday i faced spin for the first time since the end of the season, and despite making a lot of progress against pace bowling, i'm seems i'm still struggling against spin.
I was struggling majorly against one of the guys who rags it square (then again so was everyone) and as a left-hander versus off-spin, i edged behind 3/4 times in a session.
When the balls turning more than an inch or so, i just seem absolutely helpless. Against the man who was ragging it square, i found that anything on a good length i just had to step onto my back foot to cover the spin, and was just struggling to not get out, let alone score.
I struggle against spinners who only turn it a small amount as well. When i'm trying to defend a ball on a good length, i find that i can't get out and smother the spin unless i leave my crease and obviously then i find myself getting stumped.
Just wondering if anyone had any tips for playing spin?
I will hopefully be able to get one more bowling machine session in this week before i go home for Christmas, so i'll be able to get a video to show my weaknesses against spin which i will upload on Wednesday.
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You need to find a method that feels comfortable for you
There are a few methods for spin using feet get using crease or sweeping
If you can do more than one great if not find what works for you
I personally use my feet but you need to get to the pitch to cover the spin or have a good eye and hands to get you out of trouble if you don’t, just remember if you come down track commit and don’t always look to slog as I use this method to manipulate the fields for 1’s and 2’s. with the off spinner come down with line of ball on pads if defending so you can cover spin
If ball really ragging and not bouncing stupid sweeping is a good option but again don’t try to hit too hard just practice coming down on the ball and hitting the ball with a paddle or soft sweep as power will come. It doesn’t matter how much the ball is spinning if you pick the length right with a sweep.
If all else fails use the crease, stand right on the edge of the crease and if you can smother the spin with a stride great if not go right back and play off length as you will be surprised how much shorter you can make a spinner by using your crease. This works great if they don’t have a good arm ball which is why it’s my last resort.
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Roco has explained it very well. I will just add my 2 cents from experience.
I have a problem judging a spinner's line and length. For the first few balls, I try to go down the wicket as soon as the ball dips below my eye line. It helps me judge the line, length and turn extracted by the bowler as well as give an aggressive intent. I find it easier to deal with off-spinners since the ball is turning in to me but leg spinners pitch outside the leg stump and keep beating my edges constantly. For an off-spinner, my preferred shots would be cover drives, backfoot punch, cut, late cut and a rare sweep. For a leg-spinner, my preferred shot is a sweep if the ball is pitched on the leg or outside the leg stump line and for balls pitched on middle or off-stump my preferred shot would be to advance down the wicket and drive or go over the top. It takes a while to get there, but for the most part, I can manage most of the spinners in my league. There are some extremely good ones, against whom I survive a bit on luck.
- If you are at the non-striker's end then watch the spinner's action closely. It might give you a few tips on his variations.
- If you plan on going down the wicket to hit, then do it after the ball has been released by the bowler.
- Watch Sangakarra or Jayawardene batting masterclass on facing spinners. These legends have some very useful tips on playing spin.
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Playing spin is all about judgement (I am a spinner myself so this is coming from a bowling point of view. The key is having quick footwork and being able to judge the length early. If its full get right forward and smother the spin then has you grow in confidence you can develop the forward defence into a drive maintaining a big stride forward and keeping your head right over the top of the ball. As a spinner two things that makes me feel like I'm in the game is batsmen attacking/playing in the air early and playing with a cross bat shots mainly the sweep as that could be an indication that they aren't sure of how much spin there is and not wanting to get bowled. Using a positive attitude even in defensive shots is really important as it will change the plan of the spinner. Rotating the strike is vital as allowing a spinner to bowl at one batsmen every over allows them to set the batsmen up for a plan so rotating the strike disrupts the flow. This is going to sound really simple but just watch the ball really closely from the hand as often you can get an idea of the seam position and then track the line and length a lot easier. Some batsmen may chose to take their guard more towards the off side that is personal preference and a bit of trial and error to see if it works (I personally take my normal guard as I like to stick to my routine). The most important thing is to enjoy it as if you are enjoying your batting then you are much more likely to relax and enjoy it. Best of luck with the practice :)
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roco and sanred have given two well thought out posts so I'll try and keep it short.
I don't like using my feet to come down the track so it's really important that I am able to judge the length of the delivery. If you go forward, then you have to be really forward and get on top of the ball and smother it before it has a chance to spin.
If you don't go forward then you have to get all the way back and give yourself enough time to see just how much the ball has spun and bounced. As @roco said, you'd be surprised at how you can turn what seems like a good length into a short long-hop by utilising the depth of your crease effectively.
Spinners will get you out when you get stuck in between and that's when you nick one behind or get trapped LBW. The next time you're in the nets try and focus on picking the length as early as you can, it'll force you to watch the ball and will help you identify any variations out of the hand.
Don't ask me about shots though, mine are go back over the bowler's head if he gives it too much flight and reverse sweep everything else! ;)
EDIT: Didn't realise someone had said the same thing while I was typing that up. This is what happens when I procrastinate and open up half a dozen other tabs in the middle of writing a reply.
Playing spin is all about judgement (I am a spinner myself so this is coming from a bowling point of view. The key is having quick footwork and being able to judge the length early. If its full get right forward and smother the spin then has you grow in confidence you can develop the forward defence into a drive maintaining a big stride forward and keeping your head right over the top of the ball.
Couldn't agree more.
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I am also lefthanded and find its a problem trying to learn how to play spin in the nets as nets doesn't allow you to play spin the same as you would in a match as the spinner is bowling in turn with the seamers plus you have limited time batting to build your innings.
Fortunatly I learnt to play spin when we played time matches with spinners bowling as many overs as they could in the last hour and nine fielders around the bat.
Your head is important more so against the spinners as where your head goes your body will follow so in your stance your head needs to be well foreward.
Also as the ball is turning away from the left hander make sure you have your off stump covered.
Judge what to play and what to leave you don't have to play every ball.
In defence play with soft hands and kill the spin.
In defence get a decent stride in bring your bat down straight brush the top hat of your front pad with your top hand glove this closes the gap between bat and pad.
In attack give yourself a free swing off the bat with the full face to the over pitched ball Turn your back foot outwards to allow you hips to turn this will allow you to bring your bat down straight and hit through the line of the ball.
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Lots of good posts so far... So i will just add my thoughts...
I always tell the guys at my club that playing spin is about 2 words UP and BACK.
That is you get UP the wicket to the pitch of the ball or get BACK in your crease to make the ball as short as possible.
From there you have a far more range of easier and safer shots to play and in turn will put the spinner off their preferred length to bowl.
Also a massive thing people get wrong is that they think coming up the pitch means 2/3 strides... It doesn't.... It means getting to the pitch of the ball... not enough batters take 1 pace out of their crease to make the ball a half volley.
As a left hander practice batting on off stump against the ragging off spinner. You then know you can leave anything on the off side of your pads... presuming theirs no arm ball you can't pick of course.
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I have a few thoughts on this.
But so does Rahul Dravid. And lets face it he is better than everyone on here.
So read what he wrote to KP...
https://twitter.com/fwildecricket/status/524895540191182848
I would add to this by saying if you play forward make sure you seek to smother the spin by getting right over the ball. When you play back make a really concerted movement back, dont just stand up. That will take some practice.
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Many thanks to everyone who has offered advice!
I will film myself trying some new things against the machine on Wednesday and report back!
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Some sound advice here I'm much more comfortable playing pace than spin but it's something I'm getting better at. I'm trying to break it down further. My biggest problem is waiting for the ball I have a tendency to want to play with my hands.
Off spin- much more comfortable than the ball turning away. I stand on off stump knowing that if I get a decent stride I can't be out LBW. I get the paddle sweep out early to get in the bowlers mind.
Leg/left arm over- used to still stand on middle or off stump because that's what felt normal but made angles a lot harder to judge. I would quite often get out caught and bowled with a leading edge or caught at slip playing against the spin. So this season going to try bat on leg or 2 and stay leg side of the ball and either to come down and hit the ball through mid off to cover, cut anything short and wide anything on the line of pads sweep knowing it's unlikely to pitch on and get me LBw if I miss it.
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The key thing is to get to the pitch. You don’t have to whack it, once you get to the pitch, you can block it or push it back down the track.
Who am I kidding? Lurch down the track like Quasimodo, thrust one leg down a line at least 6” away from the ball and play an ugly cross-batted hoik at the ball which dribbles to backwards square for one.
It works for most people!
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Also I would try and get people to bowl at you in the nets rather than using a machine if you have the chance. The machine will help you groove a shot but won't help you pick up the length quicker.
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Also I would try and get people to bowl at you in the nets rather than using a machine if you have the chance. The machine will help you groove a shot but won't help you pick up the length quicker.
Unless you use the merlin, which can be set to adjust its speed and length ect...
Watch the ball. I tend to look to good forward. Press forward and you always have time to go back if its bouncing, its its not bouncing you're already pushing forward so you should get defeated by the grubber!
If its turning away from you and you're edging it, you're staying inside of the ball and bot inline with it.
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@Seniorplayer how do you play when there's 9 men around the bat?
If they're all close in I'd forget that blocking nonsense, boom time* - go fetch! :D
*In reality this may result in a dismissal playing a dick shot
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The key thing is to get to the pitch. You don’t have to whack it, once you get to the pitch, you can block it or push it back down the track.
Who am I kidding? Lurch down the track like Quasimodo, thrust one leg down a line at least 6” away from the ball and play an ugly cross-batted hoik at the ball which dribbles to backwards square for one.
It works for most people!
Stalking in Shanghai? You want to witness the reverse sweep into a packed off side!
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@Seniorplayer how do you play when there's 9 men around the bat?
If they're all close in I'd forget that blocking nonsense, boom time* - go fetch! :D
*In reality this may result in a dismissal playing a dick shot
Back then you could get away with getting a big stride in and pushing your front pad at the ball and not get an LBW also you could get away with looking like you were playing the ball and hide your bat behind your front pad
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Back then you could get away with getting a big stride in and pushing your front pad at the ball and not get an LBW also you could get away with looking like you were playing the ball and hide your bat behind your front pad
Ah, the good old days!
Thanks to DRS there has been a big increase in umpires raising the finger as soon as the ball hits the pad.
Technology has been great for the professional game, but seems to have resulted in a lot more wasted weekends for batsman
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Ah, the good old days!
Thanks to DRS there has been a big increase in umpires raising the finger as soon as the ball hits the pad.
Technology has been great for the professional game, but seems to have resulted in a lot more wasted weekends for batsman
OMG!! don't get me started on this.... the umpires in our league always go on about this. How DRS has shown them the light and the error of their ways for the past 20 years.
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Ahhhh! You’ll be telling me it’s a bowlers game next!
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For me, playing club level spinners, it is as much about playing the bowler as playing the ball. I open the batting, so I guess I probably face 10 spinners a season. Most of them come on when I am well set, so most of the time I have some advantage I would say. Bearing in mind I'm an OK bat, I think it is fair to say that of any 10 spinners I face, I only rate 2 or 3 as actually much good. So the first issue is to sort the wheat from the chaff as it were.
Good spinners at my level tend to be the ones who bowl straight, reasonably quick and (on the whole) full length. These are both off spinners and leggers, and it is easy to recognise their ability within 3 or 4 deliveries. They are confident enough to pitch up consistently and know that it is their best chance of success. With a well stocked Cover and Mid-Off field, they should be safe enough, and they want me to drive anyway. In this situation I will always look to get on the front foot, and play with a straight bat. Better to be on the front foot and need to rock back, than be caught back in your crease to a quick, full pitch delivery I think. I take Middle-and-Off guard, so I try to be careful to avoid playing around my pad, and from bad experience in the past I now tend to avoid sweeping. Let's be honest, against a good spinner you have to be careful, so I generally just look to drop the ball down for a single somewhere and let the other fella have a go. Bad balls will come if the bowler gets impatient, so you just have to wait.
The better news (for batters) is that most club spinners are rubbish. I face them when the oppo skipper has run out of ideas or when his first 3-4 bowlers are knackered or bowled out. You have to take maximum advantage of a bad spinner, but they are usually so slow that you have to be prepared to give it a proper whack to get maximum shot value. I try very hard to play from the crease, and keep it on the floor - at least for the first couple of overs. Once I have the confidence I do go down the track, or often just fake it, watch him pull it down short, rock back and belt it over Midwicket. At this stage the key is to try and milk the spinner as carefully as you can, enough to build a score, but not so much he gets pulled off. If you can keep him on for another couple of overs, that's 20 runs to the team.
Best of luck with it!
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I went to the nets today, and unfortunately my phone had died before we moved onto spin, so all i have is a couple of clips from my mates phone when he filmed the screen at Cricket Asylum.
I have put the few clips at the start of the video, and i know it's hard to make judgement from a few clips.
A couple of observations from what i felt whilst playing the spin:
- I feel a lot more comfortable trying to get right back in my crease than i did getting forward
- I don't feel too bad coming down to wicket to balls, but if it's more than a couple inches outside off i tend too completely miss it
- I feel a lot more comfortable playing on the leg-side to spin
- I feel like i'm reaching for the ball (like in the first clip) a bit too much when i could just get back on my stumps and play it
However, i feel like i'm continuing my progress against pace (which is what most of the video is, from 62-68mph which is probably faster than what anyone in my league bowls)
Rather than standing bolt upright i'm bending my knees a bit more as i feel like i can move to the ball a bit quicker that way
I'm leaving the ball a lot better than i did last time
I'm still planting my front foot across my body a little bit, but not as much as before
My balance is a little better than last time, i'm not walking after the shot as much, however, i do sometimes still end up on one leg after playing the shot!
Anyway enough rambling here's the video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdkvJ_Ujj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdkvJ_Ujj8)
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Analysis on the first clip alone.. You dont get anywhere near the pitch, you've planted your front foot to the offside of the pitch of the ball (if that makes sense) so you're playing around your pad to start with, so you have to reach for each to get bat on ball based on the line because your feet and head arent inline. Then it spins and you've missed it because youve played the original line in front of your pad.
However the next clip although it was against the spin you got into a slightly better position you moved to the pitch with your head over the ball you were able to put it where you wanted. Which between balls is a great improvement
Personally and im not sure if i speak for alot of spinners, when its turning like that, please please please hit me against the spin, because it shows me you're not comfortable on the off side driving, so I'd change my angle, come round the wicket, drift into your pads and nick your edge as before.
Id personally try and hit most of those shots like you did on the back foot through the off or come down and punch them straight. (And by try i mean I'd miss it too and get bowled)
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I went to the nets today, and unfortunately my phone had died before we moved onto spin, so all i have is a couple of clips from my mates phone when he filmed the screen at Cricket Asylum.
I have put the few clips at the start of the video, and i know it's hard to make judgement from a few clips.
A couple of observations from what i felt whilst playing the spin:
- I feel a lot more comfortable trying to get right back in my crease than i did getting forward
- I don't feel too bad coming down to wicket to balls, but if it's more than a couple inches outside off i tend too completely miss it
- I feel a lot more comfortable playing on the leg-side to spin
- I feel like i'm reaching for the ball (like in the first clip) a bit too much when i could just get back on my stumps and play it
However, i feel like i'm continuing my progress against pace (which is what most of the video is, from 62-68mph which is probably faster than what anyone in my league bowls)
Rather than standing bolt upright i'm bending my knees a bit more as i feel like i can move to the ball a bit quicker that way
I'm leaving the ball a lot better than i did last time
I'm still planting my front foot across my body a little bit, but not as much as before
My balance is a little better than last time, i'm not walking after the shot as much, however, i do sometimes still end up on one leg after playing the shot!
Anyway enough rambling here's the video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdkvJ_Ujj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdkvJ_Ujj8)
Looks to me that your waist seems a little rigid when could be why you're squaring up more when playing attacking shots and why your back leg lifts and comes slightly round (for me as a left arm orthodox spinner thats a massive plus for me as I would come left arm round the wicket and float a couple on or just outside the off stump spinning back in encouraging the drive and then either fire in a quicker ball or an arm ball aiming for a mistimed drive, outside edge to the keeper/slips or even a stumping with the back leg coming around.) Like I said in my previous comment just relax as then your movements will become more natural and hopefully you'll not square up as much which should reduce any chance of edging the ball towards a fielder or even back towards the stumps.
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@NT50 - I think you are not reading the length of the ball when it comes out of the bowler's hand. It feels like you are reacting after the ball pitches. That's why you feel comfortable on backfoot since it gives you more time to react.
Check @Buzz post and read through Dravid's letter. I think that would help you. Also get an hour or two with a professional coach. Your issues will be ironed out in a few mins.
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I have two thoughts which will help you instantly.
1. Your grip doesn't appear to be right as your bat comes through in an arc. I can't see what is exactly wrong but you need to have the v's from your thumb and forefinger down the outside half of the bat.
2. You are thrusting your front leg at the ball.
You need to get your head going first and your weight over the ball so you are nearer the pitch of the ball off the front foot. So work on your "topple".
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With the spin at the start you seem to be trying to play off spin from over the wicket to the leg side
If doing that you have to be right on top of the ball and to the pitch
Try to play with the spin as much as possible or you will cause yourself more problems than you need to
If your not reading the length which you seem to be struggling with play of the back foot until your in
If off spin from over you should be able to leave a lot so if not confident try to leave a few more
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Bear in mind that nets, particularly indoor nets, aren't much use against spin. When they spin at all they spin utterly consistently with good bounce. Which is probably decent practice for Australian pitches but not so much for April in the UK.
Also a spinner really needs the wind to lend some bite for his bowling. Whether there is a crosswind or a headwind will often define what I'm going to bowl. In short I don't personally think many people really learn to play spin indoors, or indeed learn to be a spin bowling indoors.
You do seem to have a very strong preference contact point right in front of your pad and almost over balance to get to it. Which is manna from heaven for a spinner. You don't go that hard at the ball but once you commit there's no going back hence merely slight changes of pace would be effective. I'd say you are planting your foot too early and on the wrong line. There's little way you could score much with tickles off the front pad and are severely limiting your scoring options on the off side.
All batsmen have a preferred contact point but the best play it as late as possible, and commit as late as possible whilst retaining a range of shots. As a SLA and Chinaman once I've figured out the contact point my job is to get the ball there faster or to drop it shorter than he thinks.
Get a spinner to bowl you stock balls then a much faster yorker on your toes.
Cheaper, but more painful, than hiring a coach. :)