Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Spinflight on January 13, 2018, 01:33:52 AM
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As per the title really...
Who do you reckon was the fastest you've seen in the county championship 2017?
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James Pattinson, George Garton, Kyle Abbott all spring to mind as hitting 90 mph. Mark Wood if and when he plays. Jofra Archer is more high 80s
Apparently Gleeson from Northants that Bumble tipped for an England call is sharp but I havent seen him bowl
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Somerset's Jamie Overton is definitely one of the quickest on the county circuit. Shame he seems to be injured a lot of the time.
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The above mentioned overseas guys are all in the picture. Other than that anyone on the ECB PACE programme has a shout. Wood on his day, Tom Barber bowled some quick spells in white ball cricket for Middlesex last year, unsure if he will get a go in the red ball format.
Most guys will bowl their quickest in the first month or two of the year, after that the cumulative fatigue of schedule starts to become an issue unless guys are rotated, which most counties can’t do due to squad sizes.
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Jofra Archer who is faster than Tymal Mills as confirmed by matthew Wade keeping to both.
150kph+ searing pace.
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Jack Shantry?! 😂
It'll be interesting to see how Archer develops in the next couple of years
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As some one has already said, my money would be on James pattinson he looked really quick for Notts this year
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The quickest spells I saw in the flesh were from James Pattinson and Mark Footitt. What was really impressive with both of these was that they sustained their pace through the full day.
The usual names apart from that - Garton looks rapid, Archer has the potential to be, though when I saw him at Hove last year his pace dropped markedly as the day went along, to the stage that he was not much more than medium pace in the final session. Jamie Overton could get up there if he was ever fit, though a word of caution that he strikes me as a bowler lacking in craft.
What else? If Matt Fisher gets another season without injuries, he will be back up around 90mph, though he is more of a McGrath type bowler.
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Keep an eye out for Chris Sole at Hampshire this season. Son of Scotland Grand Slam captain David and capable of serious pace when he's in rhythm.
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Didn't get to watch much last season but in the 2 before when I watched a lot, easily the quickest with the red ball was Footit. Consistently quick enough through each spell but the effort ball was furrrrkin rrrrapid. White ball, Overton is sharp, James Fuller also genuinely quick. Oh and Rabada makes county batsmen look like muppets, but that's not the answer you're looking for ha.
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Jofra Archer who is faster than Tymal Mills as confirmed by matthew Wade keeping to both.
150kph+ searing pace.
The speedo has said Mills is quicker every time I've seen them bowl together. But as its T20 and they are only bowling 2 over spells its probably not a relevant point in this topic anyway
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Didn't get to watch much last season but in the 2 before when I watched a lot, easily the quickest with the red ball was Footit. Consistently quick enough through each spell but the effort ball was furrrrkin rrrrapid. White ball, Overton is sharp, James Fuller also genuinely quick. Oh and Rabada makes county batsmen look like muppets, but that's not the answer you're looking for ha.
Shame that England haven't been able to utilise Footitt in the Test team, when he took those early season wickets I thought he might be the dark horse in the Ashes squad A La Tremlett in 10/11
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Gleeson would be a real rags to riches story. Northants plucked him from obscurity. He was playing minor counties for Cumbria, and playing his club cricket at Blackpool.
Played against him a few times. He was quick by league standards, but I wouldn't have said he was express. I guess he might have put on a yard or two since getting taken in to the county set up.
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Am I right in thinking Helm is reasonably nippy?
And whatever happened to Meaker?
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Atif Sheikh is fearsomely quick. Has trouble locating the cut strip though.
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Alvin, who does he play for @Alvaro ?
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Sheikh used to play for Derbyshire & Leicestershire, was at Northants last year but didn't play a lot, mostly 2nd XI cricket
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And whatever happened to Meaker?
Saw him bowl at Taunton a couple of years ago, he was proper quick that day noticeably quicker than Dernbach and had all the batsmen hopping around.
I remember thinking at the time this guy as got to be one of the quickest around.
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Saw him bowl at Taunton a couple of years ago, he was proper quick that day noticeably quicker than Dernbach and had all the batsmen hopping around.
I remember thinking at the time this guy as got to be one of the quickest around.
Nay so much last year. Similar to Wor Plunky, started at 86ish, dropping as the day went on.
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Mark Foottit was the quickest I saw last season. Definitely up a notch by comparison with Meaker.
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Hmmmmmm, wouldn’t you just get hold of Footit and Garton and work their asses off before next season
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My top 3 would be...
1. Archer looked effortless and clocked 153.8kph in the Bangladesh Premier League just before Christmas.
2. Mills not only bowls around that mark but also bowls a heavy ball.
3. Footitt has bowled some really quick spells the last few years and bowls with an action that's difficult to pick up.
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Mills is a joke compared to Archer as confirmed by the players during BBL.
Even at his supposed pace he gets smacked to all parts while Archer who bowls rapid and without all those stupid variations is very difficult to hit cos he gets immense bounce and bowls way heavier balls.
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Anyone else think it is hilariously unfunny that we don't know?
Relying on data from the Bangladeshi league to judge how quick our bowlers are when the kit to measure it could be bought for all 18 counties for 3 months of the CEO's salary...
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Hmmmmmm, wouldn’t you just get hold of Footit and Garton and work their asses off before next season
Foottit has always been injury prone and is 32 now. He would have gone to Australia if he'd stayed fit and maintained his early season form last year. His time has probably passed now.
Might be one for the 'best never to play for England' lists inyears to come?
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Anyone else think it is hilariously unfunny that we don't know?
Relying on data from the Bangladeshi league to judge how quick our bowlers are when the kit to measure it could be bought for all 18 counties for 3 months of the CEO's salary...
Same kit was used in the BPL as it was for T20 blast this year...
And cost for 18 counties for every days play would not be a wise investment strategy.
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I should add, the way the county season is structured now didn't help Foottit's cause last year. He was on fire and then there was no championship cricket. He wasn't in Surrey's one-day team, so wasn't getting a first-team bowl. By the time the championship returned, he had moved county and picked up an injury.
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Same kit was used in the BPL as it was for T20 blast this year...
And cost for 18 counties for every days play would not be a wise investment strategy.
Just how much do you think speed guns are? A could probably find some for a few hundred dollars.. Video tracking for even less.
I'm not talking about the full Hawkeye with ball tracking and snicko etc, just the speed of the bowlers being logged.
Paying Tom Harrison over £600,000 a year is a wise investment strategy but a bit of low tech kit is too expensive??
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Video tracking please explain this further, I don't understand.
Speed guns aren't used for speeds anymore. It comes out of the ball tracking systems.
I didn't comment on the board or if that's wise investment. Totally different argument.
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Some other names to keep an eye on are Saqib Mahmood at Lancs who was clocked at 92 while working with the fast bowling program, and Olly Stone at Warwicks (used to be Northants) who many reckon can be up there with the quickest if he stays fit.
Not sure if he's been mentioned but Tom Barber at Middlesex is the fastest they've ever clocked at the National Academy at 94mph.
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The problem we have is that speed alone won't cut it. They need to be able to bowl accurately too, have a bit of nous if the pitch is slow or their pace drops over a long day and also stay fit. Wood, for example, looks great on a quick pitch in his first spell zipping it past peoples throats but after his first spell he rarely looks threatening as he doesn't move the ball. The last part is where we seem to have the biggest problem though, the 4 quickest county bowlers over the past few years (Wood, Mills, Meaker, Footit) are never fit for more than a month at a time, I know Mills is a long standing condition so that rules him out but would you have any confidence in keeping any of the others fit over a full Aussie tour? Finn has the same problem, he was rapid before he changed his action but he's always injured too.
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What he said.
What annoys me is people saying we need pace, what we need is quality pace like the Aussies have. Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood are all top class bowlers, not just wheels.
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What he said.
What annoys me is people saying we need pace, what we need is quality pace like the Aussies have. Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood are all top class bowlers, not just wheels.
Yup. Hazlewood bowls quick but he's accurate and gets great seam movement, Starc and Cummins are absolute gas but like you say they're top bowlers, on a pudding or an Indian turner they're not afraid to take the pitch out of the equation and try and crush your toes.
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Yes, totally agreed.
But.....
You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.
Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point. You can train most athletes to bowl at 85mph, but anything more is nature rather than nurture. See Chris Woakes for example.
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Yes, totally agreed.
But.....
You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.
Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point. You can train most athletes to bowl at 85mph, but anything more is nature rather than nurture. See Chris Woakes for example.
Agreed. Pace isn't everything, else Shaun Tait would have more test wickets than Glenn McGrath :D
I think you need to get them young though, someone like Garton, you're not gonna teach Footit anything new now (don't know a lot about him so I'm not suggesting he's not skillful, just happens to be the right age to get my point across!) at his age.
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Not sure if he's been mentioned but Tom Barber at Middlesex is the fastest they've ever clocked at the National Academy at 94mph.
Really, I thought that was Meaker at 97mph on his first visit to Loughborough
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I reckon instead of raw pace, you also need to look at the really tall, gangly ones too (ie something different). Overton showed in bits that he could be awkward to face - work on that.
Bairstow says Morkel is a nightmare to face when it clicks, Tremlett wasn't express and Curtley often bowled within himself, letting his awkward length do the trick.
If we can't unearth fasties that can't stay fit, lets work on variety -
Tall ones - Get to work on mastery and variety of length, not outright pace
Left Armers - There's a few around the English scene
Genuine Swingers - Philander is not express
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All this talk of express pace has me thinking back to when Shoaib hit 100mph mid over for Pakistan and acknowledged the crowd for doing so :D akin to a batsman raising his bat for hitting a glorious straight 6. What a showman
I have seen Meaker bowl live and, although he was rapid, think he only took 1 wicket while a medium pacer called Tim Linley took 4fer at the other end.
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All this talk of express pace has me thinking back to when Shoaib hit 100mph mid over for Pakistan and acknowledged the crowd for doing so :D akin to a batsman raising his bat for hitting a glorious straight 6. What a showman
To be fair, its rather more remarkable getting to 100mph than it is tapping a maximum nowadays!
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Yes, totally agreed.
But.....
You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.
Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point.
Agree with this 100%. Anderson and Simon Jones are two examples of bowlers that got in through being pacey and expanded their skill set from there
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To be fair, its rather more remarkable getting to 100mph than it is tapping a maximum nowadays!
It is but it is still an incidental achievement - I think the ball went to fine leg for a single! I was in admiration of Shoaibs nonchalance then and still am now. Shortly after that he was struck off with Genital Warts
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I reckon instead of raw pace, you also need to look at the really tall, gangly ones too (ie something different). Overton showed in bits that he could be awkward to face - work on that.
Bairstow says Morkel is a nightmare to face when it clicks, Tremlett wasn't express and Curtley often bowled within himself, letting his awkward length do the trick.
This is a valid point - pace is really about reaction time, and you can affect that just as much by reducing the batsman's ability to pre-determine where the ball will come from (hence why bowlers like Chris Woakes with pure actions can look popgun yet bowlers who are slower in literal terms can have batsmen very uncomfortable). Tall bowlers are particularly tricky in Australian conditions - if they locate a nice length, just back of a good one, they can cause all kinda of issues.
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You can definitely teach pace, to an extent anyway - no coach in the world could make Darren Stevens 90mph! Craig Overton would definitely be a ripe example for improvement (and has said he's going to try to get quicker), he's awkward to face and skilful already, takes his FC wickets at a great average, and his genetically identical twin brother bowls gas. No reason he couldn't put on 5-10mph! Woakes turned himself from a county trundler into an international bowler by putting on yards, think he just didn't bowl very well in Australia.
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You can definitely teach pace, to an extent anyway - no coach in the world could make Darren Stevens 90mph! Craig Overton would definitely be a ripe example for improvement (and has said he's going to try to get quicker), he's awkward to face and skilful already, takes his FC wickets at a great average, and his genetically identical twin brother bowls gas. No reason he couldn't put on 5-10mph! Woakes turned himself from a county trundler into an international bowler by putting on yards, think he just didn't bowl very well in Australia.
I don't think Woakes was 100% match ready for the Ashes tbh. He's a prime of example of adding a good bit of pace, when he had his breakthrough home summer he was consistently bowling high 80's and flirting with the 90's