Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: Manormanic on January 30, 2018, 09:15:46 AM
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A final one. We've had the great and the good, we've had the bad and the awful. But who are the players who were really quite a bit better than perhaps the stats might suggest? The guys who were screwed over by selectors, injuries or themselves? Here is my XI - I have limited myself to gentlemen who played Test cricket, even though I desperately wanted to include Ali Brown, who was unfairly labelled a one day specialist by selectors who didn't realise that you could score quickly with a pure technique at the time. I have also followed the rule from our other threads of players post-89/90, which ruled out three otherwise perfect contenders in Graeme Stevenson, Jon Agnew and Wayne Larkins:
Martyn Moxon Had England not had Graeme Gooch, they would surely have made more of one of the most elegant players in the County game. Or at least not dropped him immediately after he was robbed of back to back hundreds in New Zealand. Oddly, also bowled a very Goochesque brand of military medium pace...
Mike Atherton Bear with me here - I know there will be some wondering how a guy who player a hundred tests can be selected ahead of, say, Michael Carberry who got six. But history tends to be unkind to a guy who carried England's batting on his faulty back through the 90s against some of the most fearsome bowling ever seen. Not bad for a Lancastrian.
Scott Borthwick Stephen Smith played two tests as a leggie who could hold a bat. Scott Borthwick got one. Borthwick's first class record since those games is every bit as good as Smith's (and his technique every bit as pig ugly) and his leg spin has held up the better of the two. Okay, I'm not saying with any confidence that he could have done as well at the top level - I am though saying that its a hell of a question to have left unanswered.
Matt Maynard The collossus of Glamorgan's title winning side, it is incredible that English cricket was so messed up that he only got five games, never more than two in a row, to show his class.
John Morris Why did he get in that Tiger Moth? Morris was a quality player, solid on the front foot and brilliant against the quick stuff. He was more than good enough to make it at the top level.
Craig White Only burnt brightly as an all rounder for two seasons, but noticeable that they were the two seasons when England went from also rans to contenders. Quick enough that he takes the new cherry in this side.
Rikki Clarke He wasn't a child of the 80s, when talent counted for little against a flawed establishment. Clarke made his debut in '06, under Fletcher, so it is staggering that nothing was made of his talent. At his peak, he was a genuine number six, a change seamer capable of bowling dry or sharp as the situation required, and worth ten wickets a season for his bucket hands at slip.
James Foster Deemed worthy as a callow youth, but not once he had matured into the finest keeper of the last fifty years.
Adil Rashid Yes, he can be a tad expensive. But he takes wickets, even on good pitches, and Yorkshire have demonstrated that he performs exponentially better once he feels wanted.
Chris Silverwood At his best, seriously rapid with a hint of an outswinger, England saw something in Silverwood that they thought made him ideally suited to carrying drinks - possibly because the feeling was that he needed the new ball, as did both Gough and Caddick.
Jon Lewis England have tried a fair few honest triers over the 00's - Martin Saggers, Ed Giddins, Richard Johnson - but few seemed to have the skill set that Lewis had, even if it did arrive somewhere below express pace. When he finally reached the Test side, he was already on the wane and it was unfortunate that we never got to see whether he could have done a job at the top level in teh same way bowlers like Philander and Kumar have managed to.
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I wonder if Neil Fairbrother was unlucky to miss out, another one labelled as an ODI specialist, was given a bit of a run on and off in the test side but never made it.
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Quite a few Yorkshiremen in there - perennial underachievers? :)
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I'd have Simon Jones in this team, without injuries getting in the way he could've been great. Shame he only managed 18 tests.
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Quite a few Yorkshiremen in there - perennial underachievers? :)
Interesting question.
I'd be minded to say that there as an argument for that in the 80s and early 90s - as well as Moxon, you could consider Dick Blakey, Ashley Metcalfe, Jim Love, Kevin Sharp, Graeme Stevenson, Arnie Sidebottom, Paul Jarvis - players with loads of talents who perhaps relied too much on the standing excuse of "well we have no West Indiean quick" to justify very average performance.
Later generations, less so. White did pretty well in Tests whilst his body held up, and Silverwood in fairness had to get past his own team mates in Gough and White and later Hoggard, Sidebottom and Hamilton to be selected. Rashid is what he is.
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I'd have Simon Jones in this team, without injuries getting in the way he could've been great. Shame he only managed 18 tests.
fair - he is perhaps defined as successful because of his role in 2005 when really he had the potential for so much more.
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1. Chris Woakes
2. Chris Woakes
3. Chris Woakes
4. Chris Woakes
5. Chris Woakes
6. Chris Woakes
7. Chris Woakes
8. Chris Woakes
9. Chris Woakes
10. Chris Woakes
11. Chris Woakes
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Glen Chappell should be on this list ahead of Jon Lewis
Otherwise good team.
I still don't rate Rashid with a red ball though!
Montie would be my pick ahead of Rashid.
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A real life mate and I had that very conversation about Atherton.
I think that you can add Hussain, Butcher and Gough to that list. What they achieved in the 90s was remarkable, given the relative strength of the opposition. It is thoroughly revisionist, but the Ashes tour of 1998/99 was a pretty good stab for such an easily derided team against one of the great Aussie sides of all time.
Sorry, but Foster is not better than Jack Russell.
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Glen Chappell should be on this list ahead of Jon Lewis
Never played Test cricket. How he didn't when his new ball partner Digger Martin did is beyond me...
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Sorry, but Foster is not better than Jack Russell.
I disagree; Russell was also an excellent keeper but he made more mistakes than a peak Foster. That stumping in the T20 World Cup was a piece of absolute genius!
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Sigh... Russell was up to the stumps to anyone - so more chance to make mistakes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgn4f8xDYI8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgn4f8xDYI8)
And two Test hundreds...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16653/scorecard/63510/england-vs-australia-4th-test-australia-tour-of-england-scotland-netherlands-and-denmark-1989/ (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16653/scorecard/63510/england-vs-australia-4th-test-australia-tour-of-england-scotland-netherlands-and-denmark-1989/)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16185/scorecard/63714/england-vs-india-2nd-test-india-tour-of-england-1996/ (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16185/scorecard/63714/england-vs-india-2nd-test-india-tour-of-england-1996/)
#StroudandProud
:)
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1. Chris Woakes
2. Chris Woakes
3. Chris Woakes
4. Chris Woakes
5. Chris Woakes
6. Chris Woakes
7. Chris Woakes
8. Chris Woakes
9. Chris Woakes
10. Chris Woakes
11. Chris Woakes
Isn't this the most underrated XI thread not overrated XI
Proved again in Aus shouldn't be in the test side.
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Isn't this the most underrated XI thread not overrated XI
Shown again in Aus shouldn't be in the test side.
Cor, you've caught a whopper there!
Keep reelin' them in....
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Cor, you've caught a whopper there!
Keep reelin' them in....
Not really Poor with both bat and ball
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Not really Poor with both bat and ball
We know, we know.....
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Anywho...
Underrated XI:
1. Carberry
2. Atherton - Genuinely think he is one of our best ever players and rarely gets the full credit he deserves.
3. Key
4. Thorpe - Averaged in the 50's in the early 2000's, which was a tough time to be a batsman!
5. Shah
6. Clarke - Got thrown in when he wasn't ready and happened to be at his peak at the same time as Freddie.
7. Foster
8. Woakes
9. Sidebottom (R)
10. Tufnell
11. Anderson - Odd one, but I don't think he gets the full credit he deserves, doesn't get the sort of fanfare that all the other 500+ bowlers get.
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James Taylor has got to be in here!! By the time the selectors had finally realised his worth it was too late. All those years wasted in the lions skippering and scoring runs aplenty whilst dominating all formats for Leics/Notts!! Yet they decided to listen to KP's views that he wasn't up to it (comments thrown at Titch having scored a couple of decent 30odds vs Steyn at his peak).
I know it was maybe a bullet dodged in terms of his health but he should have been thrown in far earlier.
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James Taylor has got to be in here!! By the time the selectors had finally realised his worth it was too late. All those years wasted in the lions skippering and scoring runs aplenty whilst dominating all formats for Leics/Notts!! Yet they decided to listen to KP's views that he wasn't up to it (comments thrown at Titch having scored a couple of decent 30odds vs Steyn at his peak).
I know it was maybe a bullet dodged in terms of his health but he should have been thrown in far earlier.
Not convinced that it was quite that straightforward - he had a lot to do to lock down a place int eh side when his unfortunate medical issues arose surely?
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Might not go as far as saying "underrated" but I don't think Matt Prior gets the credit he deserves either.
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Might not go as far as saying "underrated" but I don't think Matt Prior gets the credit he deserves either.
reasonable shout.
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Peter Such? Robert Croft?
We'd take them like a shot today.
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I always thought Mark Ealham was a little unlucky not to have played more.
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Peter Such? Robert Croft?
We'd take them like a shot today.
Deffo with you on Croft, good cricket brain too.
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I always thought Mark Ealham was a little unlucky not to have played more.
He looked like one of us.
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He looked like one of us.
sadly, I'm a little more Ian Austin...
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Gary Ballance
Gary Ballance
Gary Ballance
Gary Ballance
Gary Ballance
Gary Ballance
Monty Panesar
Gary Ballance
Chris Woakes
Chris Woakes
Chris Woakes
Ballance's day will come again. 4 100s and 7 50s in 23 matches isn't that bad going...