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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: ppccopener on February 06, 2018, 10:48:29 PM
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Well Pieterson nears the end of any meaningful cricket, I wondered how the forum remembers him. now in the past it's fair to say he has split opinion, but definitely more on here...that's us 'experts' by the way :)....as a maverick brilliant batsman who come down on his side rather than the many he has upset along the way, including our old friends the ECB.
Have to say personally I quite like to 'like' the players that play for us being an England fan, don't know why just prefer to.
Atherton,Hussain,Cook.....I actually like them for different reasons(Nasser does not get enough credit for skippering when we were simply not very good, and Atherton got even more of a raw deal)
But KP was different, I just could not like the bloke, and it wasn't because he was South African.Lamb and especially Robin Smith I loved the fact they were playing for us.Smith is up there as one of my favourites because of that square cut and the way he took on the Windies with Bishop in their side(Jesus he was quick pre back injury)
But it not about being liked, it's pro sport and cricket loves a winner more so now than the old days.Winning is top of the agenda.
Two of the best innings I've ever seen in an England shirt were KP's hundred on the tour we won 2-1 in India on a ragging deck, and his Hundred at Headingly at the height of text gate and the total breakdown of his relationship with the mananagement and some of the players, probably Prior,Anderson,Swann and maybe Broad.And of course Andy Flower.
So.....absolutely breathtakingly brilliant player, if you can stand out on your own with the best in the Country you must be good.
So how do you remember KP?
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A poorly managed, insanely brilliant maverick. I have said it all along, to be successful for a very long time at the top level of sport, you need some degree of arrogance and it just so happened that the ECB are a bunch of spineless idiots that couldn't manage him properly, and wanted someone to blame for a string of abhorrent performances. To put it into perspective, Michael Vaughan never had a problem with his management. He was and probably always will be I'm the top 3 batsmen England have ever had. He was england's highest runscorer for a very long time, averages more than the lauded Cook who only seems to perform in a handful of innings. To be honest I think he had every right to be arrogant. He was and still is simply fantastic, and having met and been coached by him briefly, I have nothing but praise for him. I think unfortunately the shadow that overhangs his career is more remembered than just how remarkable a talent he was. I very rarely agree with Piers Morgan, but I think on KP he is entirely right, Strauss stabbed him in the back and his England career was cut short due to a personal vendetta.
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The start of KP's international career just happened to coincide with my first real memories of being into cricket.
The first series I can remember properly following was England in South Africa 2004/05 (a certain D Steyn made his debut, if I remember correctly). We won the Test series but as a youngster nobody really stood out as being "cool".
Then came the one dayers. England lost comprehensively but there was a bloke with an awesome haircut hitting the Saffas to all parts. 11 year old Cameron had an idol!
Fast forward to the 5th test of the 2005 Ashes, my idol made his maiden ton, 158, to secure the urn. English cricket had a new hero with a skunk on his head!
As I grew up I realised KP was something of an enigma, but you cannot deny he's a great talent. The Peter Moores fallout and textgate tainted his reputation no doubt, but he could bat like nobody else. He was made a scapegoat by Sir Strauss and his band of merry men at the ECB, and English cricket was arguably worse off for it.
In short he was a great batsman and a "bit of a character". I think people loved to hate him while he played, but missed him once he was axed. It will be a shame when he retires but the bloke deserves it. By the fact he's been "batting for rhinos" towards the end of his playing days you can tell he's a decent bloke in my opinion.
Now, where's my 2005 Ashes DVD, I'm off to reminisce of bygone days when everything was simpler
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Brilliant batsman, the best Ive seen in an England shirt but unfortunately in any employment sector you can't slag your boss off and expect no comeuppance
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I remember KP when he scored 158 in the ashes at the oval. That was when I came to London to study my Bachelors degree at Middlesex Uni in 2005 from Dubai UAE. What a wonderful player he was (just my opinion).
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The most talented batsman England have had for years.
I got interested in Cricket at my grandparents watching highlights of Vaughan and his amazing Ashes series down under.
But Pietersen really cemented that love of the game with the way he used to take on attacks, my grandad and a 12-16 y/o self would always take a break from whichever garden we were mowing and listen to him batting on TMS for 30-60 minutes.
He is in a list of sportsmen & women that our generation are very fortunate to have been able to witness playing live and gave me some great personal family memories that I’ll always cherish.
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Never liked the guy, even when he was scoring runs.
Silly, I know - but always felt less 'English' to me than the likes of Robin Smith
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I have a memory went out to bat in a league match against Cannock and this tall kid was bowling hadnt played against him before or heard of him and after the match forgot about him.
Next time I saw him he was playing county cricket and the rest is history.
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1. Once in a generation player who I loved watching
2. Sh!t bloke
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I have a memory went out to bat in a league match against Cannock and this tall kid was bowling hadnt played against him before or heard of him and after the match forgot about him.
Next time I saw him he was playing county cricket and the rest is history.
Did you hit him out of the park lol
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1. Once in a generation player who I loved watching
2. Sh!t bloke
Took words right out of my mouth. Plain and simple though
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I'm only speaking from meeting him twice, nine years apart, but I think calling him a (No Swearing Please) bloke is wildly unfair. He was perhaps a bit prissy in his dealing with management, but he was badly treated and badly managed. I think any situation where you have to drop your best player reflects very badly on coach and captain.
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I liked him,
I feel he was slightly ahead of the curve in terms of frequently applying an ultra aggressive batting strategy.
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Personally think KP is a legend of the modern game and overall a great if the game. The truth will never really be known about what happened when he was dropped etc and there is certainly going to be some truth that he was hard to manage etc etc but he was treated in an awful way.
He was and should still be one of our best players and think he would have made a big difference to this England team over the past few years espically having him alongside others we have in this fearless brand on white ball cricket we are playing.
Seems to me to have good morals as well with his charity work etc
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Hard to deny he acted like a bit of a knob occasionally but there aren't many who don't. Always came across as very engaging and thoughtful, considered in interviews, much more of a student of the game than many people realised I think. Fringe players in the England setup always seemed to speak really highly of him which tells a different story to Swanny et al. The suspicion remains that the ego and carry on was a bit of a front at times, maybe could have done himself some favours by toning it down but maybe he needed it. Didn't deserve to be thrown under the bus repeatedly by the ECB.
As a batsman, just ridiculous. The shots, the big innings and the sheer b*llocks of it all, great fun to watch. Don't think we'll see a test batsman like him again anytime soon.
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Indeed. Whilst he may never have had the ruthless obsession with stats that allowed Tendulkar, Dravid, Waugh, Pointing and now Kohli, Smith and Williamson to pile up such averages, there was something about him in full flow that said to the bowler "you might as do it underarm mate".
Examples in Test cricket are numerous, so I'll pick one from his first year in county cricket, a B&H cup game at Headingley. KP came in six in a run chase, and Goughie - still at near his peak - gave him some stick. KP walked across his stumps and flicked a near perfect Yorker over the old pavilion...
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Wish he was still playing. His commentary is spoiling watching the cricket for me. Dreadful
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Wish he was still playing. His commentary is spoiling watching the cricket for me. Dreadful
ah well, there is that...
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At his best a master batsman
At his worst a total **** (insert own expletive)
For me giving him the captaincy was when it all changes boosted the ego too much and should never have happened
One of England’s best but a total co*k
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KP and Vaughan in the box together is enough to put anyone off cricket
Appalling stuff
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KP and Vaughan in the box together is enough to put anyone off cricket
Appalling stuff
Still not as bad as boycs!
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Nope - much, much worse
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So good yet so infuriating.
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For me giving him the captaincy was when it all changes boosted the ego too much and should never have happened
For reasons other than a swollen head, captaincy should not be extended to the best player in the team unless he is natural fighter, can handle stress, is highly disciplined individual, and is an excellent man manager.
I feel for Root. He should give up the captaincy and focus on records. Amla did it.
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With out a Doubt one off the he most talented Cricketers to wear an England Shirt and that's where it stops. Badly treated by the ECB oh yes quite right they are the ones that forced him into betraying his own Team mates into divulging game plans and weaknesses of not only a fellow Team mate but that of his Captain . One thing to remember about KP he never has and never will do anything for Nothing the word I is the biggest word in his vocabulary
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Great cricketer
Sh!t bloke
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With out a Doubt one off the he most talented Cricketers to wear an England Shirt and that's where it stops. Badly treated by the ECB oh yes quite right they are the ones that forced him into betraying his own Team mates into divulging game plans and weaknesses of not only a fellow Team mate but that of his Captain . One thing to remember about KP he never has and never will do anything for Nothing the word I is the biggest word in his vocabulary
As KP said himself even a village cricketer could have told the saffas how to get Strauss out.
Ive met him very briefly a couple of times, thoroughly nice bloke, never met anyone with the level of passion he has for cricket. If what many younger pro players have said is true he was incredible to have in the Surrey dressing room, happy to impart knowledge and go through batting techniques, approaches to games etc. Seemed to be a popular person around the world T20 franchises. But i suppose that goes against the whole "**** bloke" image.
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Most players around the world sing praises about him and he’s helped the likes of Roy, root and stonis.
Can’t say many international players (if any) sing praises for blokes like Swann and Anderson so make up your own mind. Can’t recall any overseas international player on commentary or on interview say Swann is fantastic etc.
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Most players around the world sing praises about him and he’s helped the likes of Roy, root and stonis.
Can’t say many international players (if any) sing praises for blokes like Swann and Anderson so make up your own mind. Can’t recall any overseas international player on commentary or on interview say Swann is fantastic etc.
Natal
Cannock
Notts
England
James Taylor
Andrew Strauss
They can’t all be wrong - but I agree that as self employed CEO of KP Corp in T20 as a gun for hire is when he’s felt most at home.
But way too many teams deemed themselves better off without him for that to be overlooked
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As KP said himself even a village cricketer could have told the saffas how to get Strauss out.
Ive met him very briefly a couple of times, thoroughly nice bloke, never met anyone with the level of passion he has for cricket. If what many younger pro players have said is true he was incredible to have in the Surrey dressing room, happy to impart knowledge and go through batting techniques, approaches to games etc. Seemed to be a popular person around the world T20 franchises. But i suppose that goes against the whole "**** bloke" image.
I think he's probably a decent bloke, just a junk teammate on the whole.
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Bloke could hit a cricket ball that’s for sure.
Not many batters have taken bowling apart the way he could
The rest, no ones ever gonna really know
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Bloke could hit a cricket ball that’s for sure.
Not many batters have taken bowling apart the way he could
The rest, no ones ever gonna really know
This pretty much sums it up for me. My instinct says he's a self serving (No Swearing Please) who could have been managed better but perhaps he's a decent bloke who got a raw deal, we'll likely never know.
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i think its such a waste of talent. KP is / was something very special and i think any sporting genius has to be treated differently. he would have smashed all of England's test records and in the grand scheme of things it sounds like he was used as a scapegoat at the time of crisis. i can imagine he must be so frustrated watching the England side knowing he is better than anyone out there.
Do you think any other cricketing nation would completely turn their back on their best player???
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Do you think any other cricketing nation would completely turn their back on their best player???
Always said this - had he been an Aussie he would've still been playing in the most recent Ashes. Yeah he's difficult, but characters like that need to be managed accordingly when they bring such worth to a team (there's plenty of examples of this in almost every sport!).
At least KP never assaulted anyone during a night on the booze/drugs... just putting that one out there ;)
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i was actually going to say its not like he knocked anyone out. i reckon KP could probably punch harder than Stokes as well :)
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This pretty much sums it up for me. My instinct says he's a self serving (No Swearing Please) who could have been managed better but perhaps he's a decent bloke who got a raw deal, we'll likely never know.
I'd argue cricketers are all self-serving to a degree. You earn your next gig through runs and wickets...
Alec Stewart said he would only retire once he had a Test average of 40+ (possibly tongue in cheek), and he is seen as a belt and braces England hero. It's how you present yourself, I guess, and KP was very unEnglish in stating he wanted to be the best and very open in his selfishness. Thing is, he delivered the goods, and often in a coruscating and brilliant fashion - an average of 47 + nearly 62 runs per 100 balls is some record. His hundreds in Mumbai and Colombo in 2011/12 were almost transcendent.
Particularly the Colombo one - http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12588/scorecard/521226/sri-lanka-vs-england-2nd-test-england-tour-of-sri-lanka-2011-12/ (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12588/scorecard/521226/sri-lanka-vs-england-2nd-test-england-tour-of-sri-lanka-2011-12/) Look at his strike rate relative to everyone else in the game, WOW.
But I'm with @Bulldog Cricket - if I hear him say 'BEAUTIFUL CRICKET SHOT' again I'm going to huff and moan on a forum/Twitter. What a (successful) bellend.
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Ooooh! You used 'coruscating' and 'transcendent' in one post! How loquacious of you!
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Apologies for said loquacity.
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I'd argue cricketers are all self-serving to a degree. You earn your next gig through runs and wickets...
Alec Stewart said he would only retire once he had a Test average of 40+ (possibly tongue in cheek), and he is seen as a belt and braces England hero. It's how I present yourself, I guess, and he was very unEnglish in stating he wanted to be the best and open in his selfishness. Thing is, he delivered the goods, and often in a coruscating and brilliant fashion - an average of 47 + nearly 62 runs per 100 balls is some record. His hundreds in Mumbai and Colombo in 2011/12 were almost transcendent.
Particularly the Colombo one - [url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12588/scorecard/521226/sri-lanka-vs-england-2nd-test-england-tour-of-sri-lanka-2011-12/[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12588/scorecard/521226/sri-lanka-vs-england-2nd-test-england-tour-of-sri-lanka-2011-12/[/url]) Look at his strike rate relative to everyone else in the game, WOW.
But I'm with @Bulldog Cricket - if I hear him say 'BEAUTIFUL CRICKET SHOT' again I'm going to huff and moan on a forum/Twitter. What a (successful) bellend.
Don't get me wrong, I thought he was a magnificent player. Just unsure about his credentials as a bloke. You are 100% right about his commentary though, his Big Bash stint was awful, referring to far too many players by nicknames all matey matey etc. got old real quick imo.
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Kp the most watchable England player since Botham
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At least KP never assaulted anyone during a night on the booze/drugs... just putting that one out there ;)
This
One person apparently is a ******** and deserved to be fired from the ECB.. the other is now the saviour of England and the best thing since sliced bread...
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I think great player (No Swearing Please) (No Swearing Please).
Been told enough stories by people but they are 2nd hand.
However let's be honest some poor management has not helped him and some very serious people need to have a word as to why the best player did not play more. Weak leadership costhim and his own personality
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I think great player (No Swearing Please) (No Swearing Please).
Been told enough stories by people but they are 2nd hand.
However let's be honest some poor management has not helped him and some very serious people need to have a word as to why the best player did not play more. Weak leadership costhim and his own personality
The problem is, even if we accept every story told on both sides as true, you don't get to teh conclusion that KP should have been cast out. The alleged behaviours of Swann, Anderson, Broad and to a lesser extent Bresnan and Prior were actually far worse. I also wonder how it was that on the same day as Strauss announced that Cook had personally said that Pietersen was a malign influence who did nothing for the team, three of their young players - probably now the best three players in the country - all said that KP had been supportive and helpful?
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Natal
Cannock
Notts
England
James Taylor
Andrew Strauss
My school cricket coach was the player that kept Pietersen out of the team at Notts, and was always happy to tell how they all hated KP. I won't name the bloke but all I can say is if KP didn't get on with him that much then KP must have been doing something right!
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I spoke to a few people inside the county circuit about this a few years ago including some coaches.
One said they would pick him up in a heart beat for a franchise team but for a county/ international side full time they wouldn't have him!
Quite simply he was a great player, one of the best in an England shirt but he was/ is an average bloke!
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People are complicated, and KP can be both a terrific help to younger players in the team while also isolating himself from the team as a whole and clashing with the clique of guys like Anderson, Swann, Broad, Prior and co. who I also believe to be complete arseholes.
Just because Vaughan had no problems with KP at the start of his career, doesn't mean that KP didn't become troublesome as he, and the aforementioned arseholes, all became more influential in the team as they established themselves as essential senior players.
Let's not pretend that it's only England that would have got rid of Pietersen and he would have been impossible to drop had he played for Australia. Have we forgotten that rubbish about homework a few years ago, or Glenn Maxwell not "training smart"? You're nuts if you think they wouldn't have dropped him for sending texts to the opposition and undermining his captain.
I have quite a bit of sympathy for him though, the Anderson and co. clique were effectively bullies and it's a black mark against the England management that that kind of behaviour wasn't stamped out but let's not act like Pietersen wasn't blameless and forget all the different teams and dressing rooms that he's managed to alienate throughout his career.
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A lot of the views on here are as expected, an exceptional talent and a difficult character.
Some would think its up to the management to manage him, easier said unless it's you doing the managing.There is of course managers/management in sport who have coped with difficult players in the past.So if you believe that view:
Eric Cantona moved from Leeds United to Man Utd, at the time he was considered 'unmanageable'. he wasn't, yes there were problems when he dived in the crowd :), apart from that his record was no worse than anyone else.Anyone who saw him play(me and lots of others on here I'm sure) saw an exceptional talent who could do things others could not, Pieterson just the same.
I think myself there was fault on both sides, the ECB handled him badly, remember KP was a diligent trainer, never got caught fighting,was totally dedicated to improving his game, and won matches for us.
The biggest problem in my opinion was when KP was told by Colin Graves, the idiot chairman of Yorkshire and head of the ECB that the 'slate was clean' so KP hit three hundred soon after in a County game.There is no way on this earth Pieterson would of done that unless he was told he could get back into the team.Yes it would of been awkward in the dressing room but to give him that carrot when he was going to be cast out regardless was....well I would use the word cruel.
That was by far the biggest mistake made I think and sits soley at the door of Graves.
It's been interesting reading different peoples views.
I think as well, Swann,Anderson,broad, maybe prior all had big egos, and they clashed. And I think that had a lot to do with it.
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Eric Cantona moved from Leeds United to Man Utd, at the time he was considered 'unmanageable'. he wasn't, yes there were problems when he dived in the crowd :), apart from that his record was no worse than anyone else.Anyone who saw him play(me and lots of others on here I'm sure) saw an exceptional talent who could do things others could not, Pieterson just the same.
The biggest problem in my opinion was when KP was told by Colin Graves, the idiot chairman of Yorkshire and head of the ECB that the 'slate was clean' so KP hit three hundred soon after in a County game.There is no way on this earth Pieterson would of done that unless he was told he could get back into the team.Yes it would of been awkward in the dressing room but to give him that carrot when he was going to be cast out regardless was....well I would use the word cruel.
It's been interesting reading different peoples views.
Graves told him that selection for the England side under his chairmanship would be on merit, that much is true. Strausss was appointed and decided that he was going to ignore that instruction and back his mucker Cook's (alleged - Cook looked sheepish enough when it was announced that I suspect he was toeing the Strauss party line) view that KP was persona non grata. Graves' only error was in not immediately dismissing Strauss for gross misconduct in ignoring a direct instruction!
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And that’s the end of KP. Shame he chose to end it in the PSL and not one final game in the UK.
But what a legend - played some memorable knocks. Will be missed.
Still looked class in a few of his knocks towards the end
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The only losers in the Whole KP saga (apart from KP and the English Cricket team) are the cricket fans all over the world. One of the best players to EVER play cricket for England. Not everyone may have liked him and I think he is a dick at times but he was one hell of a cricketer. His double ton in Adelaide was both great to watch and painful to watch as an Aussie. He was a game changer
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Such a talented player and a maverick- who are often difficult characters..
Obviously his history tells you that he often had big fallouts-but Alec Stewart/Surrey showed that if you embraced the guy and made him feel important he had a lot to offer.
Would also like to say that I dislike Strauss for what he did to KP- almost like revenge-and everything he stands for-the elite- hope some sexual harrassment mutterings get landed at his door and he gets sacked!
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Having said that,I remember Strauss offering KP a tentative advisory role for Eng ODI tean-was that an olive branch that he should/could have grasped?
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An English legend retires. Sadly many on here will remember Anderson, broad and Swann far more even though they’ve turned out to be bullies. They should all have been kicked into touch but Strauss and co were part of the clique.
He’d lost his motivation over the last few years, that much was plain to see as his returns diminished and consistency dropped. Assuming he was motivated he could quite honestly still be in the englsnd side as we are simply that weak.
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Not only Strauss - don’t forget cook said it’s either KP or him.
We all know cook’s a stats man, no doubt KP would’ve been the leading run scorer in tests had he been allowed to continue.
Credit to Kp he carried on fighting to get back in the England side for a couple of years - a lot would’ve turned their back and given up
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Sad events over the past few years deprived the watching public and the England team a few more years of KP.
I’ll remember him most for his role in the 05 ashes - for me in my teens at the time and watching every ball over the summer that series is a highlight of my cricketing life. Many people played a big part, but the way that this brash 25 year old in his debut series, with his skunk haircut and genius in his hands turned up from nowhere and took on that supposedly invincible australia side - not seen or enjoyed anything like it since.
Could still do with a bit of that now..
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Some would say you reap what you sow others believe what He was treated shamefully the England team was weakened with no ready placement.
Forgetting what happen off the field on the field Peterson was a man of principle never getting involved in an unfair game.
In terms of hurt feeling don't believe what ever monies he received he will feel is enough compensation for being ditched and the way he was treated.
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Thing about KP is that you have to look at what he was castigated for.
1. Promoting the ILP and 2020 cricket.
He was right and the ECB now embrace it.
2. Peter Moores' unsuitability as an international coach.
He was proved right on that twice.
3. The ineptitude if the ECB man management
No further comment required.
4. Andy Flower's lack of flexibility as a coach, especially in one day cricket.
5. One day cricket generally.
Evidence says he was right.
6. The England team stagnated under Cook's leadership
Kp called it and lost his career.
He was right again.
Now I am sure he is a high maintenance player. But he was dropped for speaking out and he was right on every occasion.
He was a success at Surrey, actually would be interesting to know what would have happened if Graham Ford had replaced Andy Flower as coach. I suspect a very different outcome.
KP transformed English cricket. We should be grateful that we got to watch it.
P.s. I also suspect that he had issues with Anderson which were well founded, but I have no evidence of that
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Thing about KP is that you have to look at what he was castigated for.
1. Promoting the ILP and 2020 cricket.
He was right and the ECB now embrace it.
2. Peter Moores' unsuitability as an international coach.
He was proved right on that twice.
3. The ineptitude if the ECB man management
No further comment required.
4. Andy Flower's lack of flexibility as a coach, especially in one day cricket.
5. One day cricket generally.
Evidence says he was right.
6. The England team stagnated under Cook's leadership
Kp called it and lost his career.
He was right again.
Now I am sure he is a high maintenance player. But he was dropped for speaking out and he was right on every occasion.
He was a success at Surrey, actually would be interesting to know what would have happened if Graham Ford had replaced Andy Flower as coach. I suspect a very different outcome.
KP transformed English cricket. We should be grateful that we got to watch it.
P.s. I also suspect that he had issues with Anderson which were well founded, but I have no evidence of that
Can we have some more gossip on KP/Anderson saga please?!
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@Buzz point 3 is my favourite
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As I said I haven't got any evidence.
However seeing the kind if player that KP was, I can't imagine he stood up for Anderson's strops and surly attitude when bowling. So I expect there were disagreements.
Cook and Anderson being best mates won't have helped.
But lets be clear this is an assumption/guess, I have no evidence of this.
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I may be wrong but wasn’t cook influential in getting KP back in the side after the South Africa saga?
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You're not wrong it was Cook himself and Matt Prior. Prior made the first move. people make assumptions about Cook on this forum God knows where they get there information from. the fact that Cook is not on social media and does not discuss these events mean he gets painted with a reputation he does not deserve
if you want to look at the real crux of the problem it's Strauss and Flower, together they were a rock solid pair of individuals who backed each other up regardless.
There's def mis management on behalf of the ECB Buzz is dead right although his no comment post could be taken either way :) haha
It takes two to tango thou and KP brought a lot of this on himself in my view.
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I may be wrong but wasn’t cook influential in getting KP back in the side after the South Africa saga?
Captains generally want players who will win them games.
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It takes two to tango thou and KP brought a lot of this on himself in my view.
This.
No doubt he was supremely talented and probably the best player we've had since Gooch. But, this sort of thing doesn't happen unless he's bringing some of it upon himself.
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A brilliant batsman, should have had another 3 years cricket but for his and others ego. Ultimately you pick your best team and KP did as well as anybody in that whitewash. You don't have to like the guy to know he is better in the team and all that happened was England were made weaker.
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Now I am sure he is a high maintenance player.
Played with a few Saffa's like that! Brash on the outside, a bit insecure on the inside. I remember one talented saffa who fretted about his batting position and thought it was better if we stuck to a specific position instead of adapting to the game situation. The Kiwi next to him, sunbathing on the floor, said "nah I just bat where ever". Sums up different cultures perfectly.
I can imagine KP talking alot and getting on Anderson's tits. I don't think Jimmy is a big one for chat. However, like in a workplace, you get on with it and acknowledge somebodies strengths and ignore the baggage that comes with it. Just shows how poorly managed the England team are when they can't deal with common workplace issues in a grown up manner.
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I may be wrong but wasn’t cook influential in getting KP back in the side after the South Africa saga?
When Cook stepped down as captain I remember Jonathan Agnew recalling a conversation he had with Cook after the 2012 tour to India. The gist of it was that Aggers had congratulated Cook on the way KP had been reintegrated back into the side and Cook responded by saying that KP woudn't have been there if it had been up to him.
Personally, i find it a measure of Cook's worth as a man that he played a key role behind the scenes in removing KP from the England side but never had the balls to publically justify his actions.
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You need a strong coach in those situations, to bang heads together and spell out why they are there - to win, not to make friends in the playground and hold hands. Cook got Moores (again), which must have been like a dream come true for the Cook/Flower Mafia, and they could at least deflect some of the blame elsewhere. I'm sure instead of idle speculation the truth will eventually come out when somebody involved decides to cash in on a bio.
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Not sure anyone will really know what went on behind closed doors, shame as I'm sure we'd all love to! Obviously KP had the huge ego but as a player he was right up there class wise and a great entertainer. For those reasons alone he deserves every English cricket fans gratitude in my opinion, regardless of how they feel about him as a person.
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The question is.. why did KP deserve to lose his career and yet stokes who may potentially.. potemtially.. end up as a criminal is being openly accepted back in..
Tbh.. I think I’d choose the non criminal over a criminal any day
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I think if someone pulls a bottle on you the last thoughts you have is I could very well get a criminal record for my actions .
KP had a lot of time to think about the consequences he would face if caught by given away trade secrets on not only his Teammate but Captain . I know for a fact iAndy Flower would admit that KP was the best and most talented Cricketer he has ever worked with but that does not mean you can sell your Teamates down the river and exspect a Blind eye to be turned. The last thing Flower wanted was not too have the best player he has not playing and all credit to ECB and Management they saw the bigger Picture made a decision and stuck with it
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I think if someone pulls a bottle on you the last thoughts you have is I could very well get a criminal record for my actions .
KP had a lot of time to think about the consequences he would face if caught by given away trade secrets on not only his Teammate but Captain . I know for a fact iAndy Flower would admit that KP was the best and most talented Cricketer he has ever worked with but that does not mean you can sell your Teamates down the river and exspect a Blind eye to be turned. The last thing Flower wanted was not too have the best player he has not playing and all credit to ECB and Management they saw the bigger Picture made a decision and stuck with it
Bullying ok too then ?
I couldn’t care less about KP tbh.. he’s aren’t millions since leaving but the duel standards is what is annoying
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I’m so conflicted about KP he’s clearly a genius - so I’ve nicked two tweets that resonated
Kevin Pietersen - "Tetris taught me that when you try to fit in, you disappear."
What a shame that Kevin Pietersen’s career has ended today without so much as a whimper.
He could have been given a Royal send off as one of Englands greatest Test & ODI batsmen.
But he was a tit.
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Pffft, a lot of people coming up with all the other people who are at fault for poor old Kevin’s stunted career.
The only person responsible for Kevin’s troubles is Kevin himself - no one went out to bring him down.
A very talented man who worked to his own agenda and was about as ‘English‘ as Bratwurst.
Getting a Lion tattoo and living in Chelsea doesn’t make you an England legend.
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Pffft, a lot of people coming up with all the other people who are at fault for poor old Kevin’s stunted career.
The only person responsible for Kevin’s troubles is Kevin himself - no one went out to bring him down.
A very talented man who worked to his own agenda and was about as ‘English‘ as Bratwurst.
Getting a Lion tattoo and living in Chelsea doesn’t make you an England legend.
No beating the Aussies does
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You can beat the Aussies ten times, but if you rat on your skipper, get your coach fired and fall out with most of your teammates- you can stick it up your Yarpie ass as far as I’m concerned.
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Moores was going to be fired anyway.
Takes two to tango with the team mates.
We only heard what the Saffas leaked to upset the England team and Swann thought happened with those texts, not what actually happened.
Oh and the innings he played that day was beyond anything anyone else could have played.
And he didn't call someone a c*** on live tv.
The reality was that he was driven in a way that others weren't. That wound people up. It happens.
I think that there are a few members of the current team who could use that drive.
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Moores was going to be fired anyway.
Takes two to tango with the team mates.
We only heard what the Saffas leaked to upset the England team and Swann thought happened with those texts, not what actually happened.
Oh and the innings he played that day was beyond anything anyone else could have played.
And he didn't call someone a c*** on live tv.
The reality was that he was driven in a way that others weren't. That wound people up. It happens.
I think that there are a few members of the current team who could use that drive.
We don’t know that for certain
You are saying that all the teammates at all the clubs he played at are wrong?
If nothing was said, then the Saffas had nothing to leak?
You are basically saying it’s everyone else’s fault, and if you can score a brilliant innings you can be excused a careers worth off being an a-hole?
You have clearly underestimated how much I have drunk to believe my assessment of the man is unshakable!
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Was there in Adelaide in 2010 for his 227, utterly imperious, and he hit a straight 6 that was truly ludicrous on those long boundaries.
Brilliant batsman, surely would have surpassed 10,000 test runs were it not for all the furore.
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The reality was that he was driven in a way that others weren't. That wound people up. It happens.
I think that there are a few members of the current team who could use that drive.
Cook seemed to prefer a dressing room with guys like Gary Balance or Moeen Ali who lack drive and aggression but were never likely to represent a challenge to manage rather than lead a team who go out and take the game to the opposition. The rot started under Strauss but England declined significantly under Cook.
I don't see that any of the subsequent problems with KP would have happened had injury not ended Vaughan's career. He retired with a reputation as an outstanding captain and that has only further been enhanced with what has followed since.
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Cook seemed to prefer a dressing room with guys like Gary Balance or Moeen Ali who lack drive and aggression but were never likely to represent a challenge to manage rather than lead a team who go out and take the game to the opposition. The rot started under Strauss but England declined significantly under Cook.
I don't see that any of the subsequent problems with KP would have happened had injury not ended Vaughan's career. He retired with a reputation as an outstanding captain and that has only further been enhanced with what has followed since.
What makes you think ballance and moeen don’t have as much drive as KP ?? Being ‘aggressive’ or ‘gobby’ isn’t an indication of more/better motivation..
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Cook in reality played very little test cricket with Ballance and the major amount of his 100 plus tests with Kevin Pieterson.
england are playing virtually all year round so it's not really surprising players form friendships and tolerate each other if it goes the opposite way, look back thru history not everyone gets on with each other, Gower and Gooch for example hated each other.
Whilst I don't like some of what KP has done the role of Swann,Anderson and Broad and maybe Prior has to of played a role in what happened in the dressing room,quite what role no one really knows,but you are talking about well established senior players who will have a lot of clout.
Flower was very regimented, Pieterson has the opposite character.
For example if the Ashes series we lost 0-5 Flower wanted extra nets,extra training,extra practice, Pieterson in that case argued strongly for 'working on skills because that is letting us down'. KP himself said this many times in interview.
In that case where you have two options to work on,which one would you choose?
So it's not all cut and dried with KP..
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Love him or hate him, the man was box office, loved watching him bat.
Not interested in all the other stuff tbh.
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Cook in reality played very little test cricket with Ballance and the major amount of his 100 plus tests with Kevin Pieterson.
england are playing virtually all year round so it's not really surprising players form friendships and tolerate each other if it goes the opposite way, look back thru history not everyone gets on with each other, Gower and Gooch for example hated each other.
Whilst I don't like some of what KP has done the role of Swann,Anderson and Broad and maybe Prior has to of played a role in what happened in the dressing room,quite what role no one really knows,but you are talking about well established senior players who will have a lot of clout.
Flower was very regimented, Pieterson has the opposite character.
For example if the Ashes series we lost 0-5 Flower wanted extra nets,extra training,extra practice, Pieterson in that case argued strongly for 'working on skills because that is letting us down'. KP himself said this many times in interview.
In that case where you have two options to work on,which one would you choose?
So it's not all cut and dried with KP..
Agreed. Swann, Anderson and broad are saints around these parts and yet may have been the bully’s. So we accept bullying but not someone a bit hard to manage. Then you have the modern group of pee heads, locker hitters and thugs who again.. seem to be immune.
KP as a man aside, just seems like duel standards
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Yes KP is an (No Swearing Please) but let's not act like Swann/Prior/Broad/Anderson are innocent
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Think KP would make a good coach? Certainly has some good ideas?
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Cook seemed to prefer a dressing room with guys like Gary Balance or Moeen Ali who lack drive and aggression but were never likely to represent a challenge to manage rather than lead a team who go out and take the game to the opposition. The rot started under Strauss but England declined significantly under Cook.
I don't see that any of the subsequent problems with KP would have happened had injury not ended Vaughan's career. He retired with a reputation as an outstanding captain and that has only further been enhanced with what has followed since.
Vaughan was a brilliant moderator. Good captain and the owner of a beautiful cover drive.
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Vaughan also was blessed with the best quizzical look when playing round a straight one and being bowled...
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Vaughan also was blessed with the best quizzical look when playing round a straight one and being bowled...
This is quite true - he made it seem like the very idea that a bowler would move the ball was an insult to his glorious cover drive.
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Moores was going to be fired anyway.
Takes two to tango with the team mates.
We only heard what the Saffas leaked to upset the England team and Swann thought happened with those texts, not what actually happened.
Oh and the innings he played that day was beyond anything anyone else could have played.
And he didn't call someone a c*** on live tv.
In the thirty two years I've been watching cricket, Pietersen is the most outrageously gifted player to bat for England. He had that rare ability to make it appear as though he was batting on a completely different pitch against totally different bowlers to the rest of the side, and played a half dozen of the most incredible innings ever seen for England.
Was he difficult? There are enough people in the game who disagreed with him publicly to think that he must have his moments.
But...the real problem, as with so many things in English cricket, rests with his alienation under the leadership of one Andrew Strauss. How that man is still given the opportunity to wreck havoc on the English game is beyond me.
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Think KP would make a good coach? Certainly has some good ideas?
Hope he applies for the England job post Bayliss- surely he would make the shortlist at the very least?!
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Hope he applies for the England job post Bayliss- surely he would make the shortlist at the very least?!
Gets paid more commentating. Don’t see it happening
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I'll be fairly blunt but this is my spin on it.
Alastair Cook has pretty limited ability, that doesn't mean he's a bad player. But he knew if Kevin Pietersen played on longer, than all the records Cook's piled up would actually belong to Pietersen.
Aside from Cook's records, after he retires within a few months we'll all forget about him. That's how Cook's batting was boring.
Pietersen on the other hand, you'll remember the 158 at the Oval until your dying breath. The 180 in Mumbai one of the greatest innings of the modern era. The 227 in Adelaide again simply sensational. With Pietersen when he was on it was a sight to behold.
Cook had the opportunity to end Pietersen's career as he saw it an opportunity to build a legacy, but in reality Cook would never rank with Pietersen.
Had they played similar amount of matches Pietersen would be miles ahead of Cook.
Pietersen threw a grenade into his own career granted, but Cook stuck the knife in to try and remain relevant.
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The knock in sri lanka too was a memorable one too
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Gets paid more commentating. Don’t see it happening
I wasn't being serious...
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The knock in sri lanka too was a memorable one too
Switch hitting Scotty Styris wasn't too shabby either :D
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What a uneventful, sad end to the career of such a gigantic talent!
He did it to himself though - he refused to acknowledge the center of power in the ECB and team's setup.
This is a life lesson here that talent and capability are not enough. You have to learn to manage the people and optics around you. KP's action, albeit with good heart, had horrible optics!
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To KP's credit, he harnessed the power of his physical talents which very few cricketers do. For his height and size, he was using a tiny bat to a devastating effect! Tall guy, long reach, and with tons of physical, he made the most of it!
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Outstanding player, but clearly hard to manage, pity some didn’t make more effort on that for the benefit of English cricket and the game in general. Has anyone seen any tweets from Cook, Anderson or Broad on the retirement?
The BBC have done an article which includes the following summary which makes interesting reading.
It's easy to say that Pietersen's divisive personality prevented him achieving more. It's harder to recall that he made more Test appearances than Wally Hammond, Ted Dexter and Peter May, ended with a higher Test average than David Gower, Geoff Boycott and Colin Cowdrey, and made more Test centuries than Graham Gooch, Len Hutton and Ken Barrington.