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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: LBWCandidate on April 23, 2018, 07:09:17 PM

Title: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: LBWCandidate on April 23, 2018, 07:09:17 PM
Nowadays, almost everyone has started using stationary high back lift with their bat raised before the bowl is bowled. My question is which one of these will have higher bat speed coming down on the ball:
A) Stationary high back lift with bat raised
B) Traditional back lift with the bat being raised a bowler is about to bowl as it gives momentum to the bat swing.
C) Or both will be similar

Just a thought which came to my mind while watching T20 cricket where everyone has their bat raised.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: liscon12 on April 23, 2018, 07:12:56 PM
I think its down to power hitting when you have the bat rasied, a lot of coaching on it is derived from baseball where they have the bat raised high up.
 
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: Buzz on April 23, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
Personally I don't think there is much of a difference.
If you are a rhythm batsman then having a tap on the ground can help.
But by being upright it is easier to keep your head still.

The reason a lot of batters stay upright is because with heavier bats it is easier to start with the bat up.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: golders on April 23, 2018, 07:46:17 PM
A lot of players like De Villiers and Root have a high backlift but it isn't stationary.I used to rest my bat by my foot until the bowler reached his blind but was told I was picking up the bat late,so changed it.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 23, 2018, 09:05:11 PM
Even those who tap have their bat up at the point of delivery. Can't think of a high profile current player that doesn't.

Flintoff and Gilchrist were notable rare exceptions in their era.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 23, 2018, 09:10:16 PM
The thought  behind an high back lift  for some is that  you only have to think about bringing the bat down rather than having to pick it up  and then bring it down
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: bk on April 23, 2018, 09:20:48 PM
High back-lift means a longer bat swing which means more power. Better approach for power hitting (and heavier bats)
Challenge is getting triggers right so that head is able to move into the ball quickly enough to start and complete a full bat swing.
Additional challenge is grooving a repeatable bat swing. The higher you lift the bat the more room there is for stuff to go wrong (theoretically).
This is why so many modern players use a crouch as part of their trigger movements. It helps get everything moving consistently. Problem is if you get it wrong (like Eoin Morgan a few years ago) everything goes to pieces.
Shorter back lifts also need more strength to get the bat swing going. The more you use just one part of your body (or physical strength) to provide power the more likely you are to be inconsistent.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: InternalTraining on April 23, 2018, 09:50:45 PM
I have to try it. I feel that I'd lose some control during the down swing to compensate for the turning ball. It'd work in a t-20 situation where ball is not turning or swinging.

Lot of these t-20 pitches are non-turning duds, so baseball works very well against straight and fast balls. No wonder these batsmen flounder against good Test bowling. :D
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: batmatt on April 23, 2018, 10:53:39 PM
How many golfers start from the top of their swing?
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: potzy248 on April 24, 2018, 12:23:43 AM
How many golfers start from the top of their swing?

Force Summation. Need the wind up through the legs first so starting low helps with this.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 24, 2018, 12:34:10 AM
Golfers don't have the ball coming at them a high speed. Not a like for like comparison.

Batsmen 'crouch' to get their eyes low (closer to the bal). Being tall, I find that with this there is a trade-off with feeling comfortable and relaxed.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: sgcricket on April 24, 2018, 03:49:34 AM
The most important thing is a stable base and being comfortable at the crease. I start with a low back lift which automatically goes higher the longer I bat (at least that's what I feel). If I had to think about the back lift, I wouldn't be comfortable at all.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on April 24, 2018, 09:28:07 AM
You lot think far too much...
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: FattusCattus on April 24, 2018, 10:17:30 AM
It's not the speed of the backs wing, it's the violence of it.

It's also good to hold the pose after a violent swish.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: mvclayton on April 24, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
I think it's all about what feels comfortable, I'm not convinced a higher back lift leads to more power. Colin De Grandhomme is probably one of the biggest hitters in the world and has his bat on the floor when the bowler lets go of the ball. I think the high pickup is probably just a trend.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 24, 2018, 11:24:46 AM
Colin De Grandhomme

Thanks. I'll look out for this.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: edge on April 24, 2018, 11:36:06 AM
Apologies for the lousy quality screenshot but to back up the above about a low backlight definitely not meaning less power - this is one CH Gayle:
(https://s7.postimg.cc/mverxpjyz/Screenshot_20180424-123139_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: LBWCandidate on April 24, 2018, 05:50:59 PM
You lot think far too much...

I think that's my problem. I am thinking too much when the ball is being bowled like backlift, falling over, watch the ball, lose bottom hand etc.
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: FattusCattus on April 25, 2018, 08:37:25 AM
I think that's my problem. I am thinking too much when the ball is being bowled like backlift, falling over, watch the ball, lose bottom hand etc.

Yes, be careful about that, it could make you quite a candidate for LBW!
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: bk on April 25, 2018, 10:16:35 AM
Apologies for the lousy quality screenshot but to back up the above about a low backlight definitely not meaning less power - this is one CH Gayle:
(https://s7.postimg.cc/mverxpjyz/Screenshot_20180424-123139_01.jpg)
Gayle has a fast bat swing. He waits with the bat just below horizontal but the bat almost reaches vertical before starting the down swing. He also cocks his wrists very well. He's an incredibly strong man but one if the things people don't comment on enough is how strong his base is and how still he keeps his head.
Sadly I don't think (m)any of us are capable of copying his technique! 
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: LBWCandidate on April 25, 2018, 01:43:35 PM
Yes, be careful about that, it could make you quite a candidate for LBW!

Last 20 innings or so, I may have been caught only once. Rest have been LBW or bowled which makes me think even more. I am a perfect LBW candidate!
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: KIPPERS on May 14, 2018, 02:21:18 PM
I am blissfully unencumbered by thought
Title: Re: Bat Speed - Stationary high back lift vs Traditional back lift
Post by: InternalTraining on May 14, 2018, 02:40:51 PM
Gayle has a fast bat swing. He waits with the bat just below horizontal but the bat almost reaches vertical before starting the down swing. He also cocks his wrists very well. He's an incredibly strong man but one if the things people don't comment on enough is how strong his base is and how still he keeps his head.
Sadly I don't think (m)any of us are capable of copying his technique!

This is a very good point and not repeated enough.

Pros are physically very strong! Big hitters manage to generate a LOT of bat speed, high back lift or not. They have a powerful bat swing like golfers have golf swings. We talk about "watching the ball", "still head", and "strong base" but we don't talk about having a solid, powerful bat swing. That in itself is a skill that needs to be practiced separately.