Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: JK Lewis on May 16, 2018, 06:06:18 PM
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When I was a kid, nobody - nobody - talked about Storm Damage to bats. But ever since Michael Carberry's bat got broken in half in the 2014 Ashes series, I hear people talking about Storm Damage at all levels of the game, as if it's a real thing. Honestly, I think it's total BS, really just a convenient scapegoat that's used to head off discussion about the excessive drying processes to which modern clefts are subjected. One of the guys at my club broke his bat just like Carberry's, and inside it was pretty much like Balsa.
Anyway, rather than just talk, I figure I'll try to prove my point, or at least provoke a decent and interesting debate. See the imperfect photos below, my 2018 bat has at least 4 major areas of 'Storm Damage', right across the back of the bat and very obvious (helpfully marked with black dots). I'm going to use the bat through the season, in net sessions and in matches, my bet is that nothing negative will happen to it, mainly because the cleft was air dried in my garage, rather than being kiln dried to within an inch of its life. So far, it has successfully negotiated 2 x 20 minute net sessions, and 1 match inning - approx 10 overs against the new ball. I hope to give it another good go this Sunday, weather permitting.
I plan to post regular reports as I go along. If it gets cracked, damaged or broken in half, I promise I'll report that too and share the photos!
(https://s7.postimg.cc/jey31md63/SD1.jpg)
(https://s7.postimg.cc/l6r1wr9gb/SD2.jpg)
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Good experiment! Keep us posted.
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Yes very interested in if this lasts a season. I had a real nice bat break in half last year just as I was getting used to it, and yes once I looked it had all the horizontal stress marks from storm damage.
Be interested to know if you think a bat actually breaking in half is a fairly modern problem or has always happened-just more said about it in forums like this one
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A lad I used to play with is into his 3rd season with a bat that has storm damage or compression cracks along the back and front of the bat about 3-4 inches from the toe, U.K. made and well looked after with a scuff sheet and a gentle refurb and light waxing at the end of each season and no issue so far.
Be a good experiment I reckon mate
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Be interested to know if you think a bat actually breaking in half is a fairly modern problem or has always happened-just more said about it in forums like this one
Bats breaking in half is definitely a modern phenomenon - simply didn't happen in the 80s and early 90s. But then, we didn't have massive edges and high spines, and the only concaving one saw was on GN Scoops and Dynadrives. These things are intrinsically linked, big bat vanity drove the need for more intensive drying at cleft stage.
I remember a clubmate getting an SS Turbo 333 off Graham Gooch, back in 91 or 92. It was a 'big bat' for it's time, weighed about 3lb 1oz. But the actual size of it, the volume of willow, these day it would probably weigh no more than 2lb 9oz.
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Interesting experiment - have seen storm damaged bats that have gone for a good while, and one that went clean in two in its' first net.
An alternative thought to the 'it's not storm damage it's just overdried willow argument' - storm damaged willow is linked to, er, big storms. A comparison of when these have happened would certainly be informative, for example if there weren't many big storms in the 60s/70s then that would go a long way to explaining why bats weren't going in half in the 80s/90s. Can't remember who or where but I'm sure I've seen a batmaker or willow grower of some kind refer to a big storm of a particular year (90s from memory) and how it resulted in a load of damaged clefts.
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My sons using a storm damaged bat, it's had two years use so far, and is still going strong,, bearing in mind he plays two matches a week and nets at least twice a week, and played in nz over both winters.
This particular bat is the one that was used at a cbf net, a really nice performing bat, that has disproved the myth so far.
I'm not a fan of the whole big bat fad, and certainly not a fan of forced or over drying of clefts to achieve these bats.
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Don’t disprove the myth... Companies will then stop selling these at a fraction of the cost of a regular bat then...
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Yes, good debate building up, nice one. @edge , yep, the 'Big Storm' issue is worthy of consideration, no doubt. I'm not a meteorologist so can't offer much detail on the prevalence of weather over time. What I can definitely say though, is that the tree my bat came from was 30 years old and 25m tall, approximately twice as old and twice as tall as a normal, commercially grown willow. So, there's no doubt it took a serious battering from storms over it's lifetime, making it an excellent test subject for this experiment.
One bat is not a fair test of willow in general, and it's also true I'm unlikely to face anyone bowling like Sylvester Clarke. But we can only work with the tools we have!
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Right, 1 month into the season, first update on how things are going.
Due to weather and the wife, I've managed to get 5 games to date. Opening up each time, so 5 knocks as well - 19, 42, 0, 49 and 54 - and have used the storm damaged bat throughout. Pretty happy with the form overall. I don't score that fast, so I've been in for around 79 overs. We don't keep track of balls faced, but my estimate is somewhere around 210. No 6's so far, around 20 4's.
The bat has held up well - see the photos below. Feels great off the middle. Some minor cracks to the face as one might expect, and a dent in the toe where I dug out a decent pace yorker. Otherwise all good, I've definitely not seen any negative effect from the storm damage. Fingers crossed it stays in one piece! :)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/g6ericiez/123.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/56tk6qzpn/125.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/mk3ulm2qj/124.jpg)
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Your idea of a minor crack is a bit different to mine! Haha
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Your idea of a minor crack is a bit different to mine! Haha
Funny one this, Dean at Vulcan Cricket said the same on my FB page. When I was a kid cracks like this are what happened to bats, not just at my level but at top end too. I remember seeing one of Graham Gooch's bats and it was like crazy paving.
I'll keep any eye on them, but as long as the bat keeps performing I'll happily live with it!
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Would you say most of those cracks are about where the huge knot on the back is ? ....or are the cracks a bit higher up ?
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Those cracks look quite ugly, are you using ghastly match balls?
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Interesting experiment - have seen storm damaged bats that have gone for a good while, and one that went clean in two in its' first net.
An alternative thought to the 'it's not storm damage it's just overdried willow argument' - storm damaged willow is linked to, er, big storms. A comparison of when these have happened would certainly be informative, for example if there weren't many big storms in the 60s/70s then that would go a long way to explaining why bats weren't going in half in the 80s/90s. Can't remember who or where but I'm sure I've seen a batmaker or willow grower of some kind refer to a big storm of a particular year (90s from memory) and how it resulted in a load of damaged clefts.
Go back further when I started senior cricket mid 60s and early 70s no breakages and no big bats until Botham used his Magnum and Googh his Jumbo storm damage unheard of.
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Would you say most of those cracks are about where the huge knot on the back is ? ....or are the cracks a bit higher up ?
Most of them pretty much opposite the knot. Might be an influence? Not sure.
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Those cracks look quite ugly, are you using ghastly match balls?
We use the Hunts County balls, as they are the league sponsor. They're ok, tend to lose shine and soften after 10-12 overs. I don't think the balls are to blame tbh, though of course I face them when new and hard. The cracks probably look worse then they are, and you know how i prefer not to use a scuff sheet.
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We use the Hunts County balls, as they are the league sponsor. They're ok, tend to lose shine and soften after 10-12 overs. I don't think the balls are to blame tbh, though of course I face them when new and hard. The cracks probably look worse then they are, and you know how i prefer not to use a scuff sheet.
Those balls are absolutely awful, I still remember a few years ago playing and they would only allow one of them balls per game! I’ve seen more bats break in Sunday cricket with them balls than any other game
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Balls yes there hadn't used to be any foriegn made lacquered balls cork wrapped in hand stitched leather which must have been a factor why bats rarely broke also lots of players only had butterfly's.
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Those balls are absolutely awful, I still remember a few years ago playing and they would only allow one of them balls per game! I’ve seen more bats break in Sunday cricket with them balls than any other game
We do get 2 per game now which is more expensive, but better. My bats don't break, but they do crack a bit. I don't mind really, these are tools right, so wear and tear seems acceptable. I also think that a cracked bat is rougher, and better for taking the shine off the ball.
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Evening all! OK, about time for an update on this, now 2 months into the season. I've had 3 further knocks since last time I wrote - the football, the family and the slightly eccentric fixture list have got in the way of things. But, I've been in decent form, adding 32, 63* and 21 to my previous efforts.
I'm happy to report that the bat remains in one piece, and has now seen me through around 128 overs. The fast outfields have flattered my shot value which is great, I guess I've faced about 400 deliveries and have hit about 40 4s. Still facing the new ball, still facing the freshest bowlers. So, all good, and the bat itself has really started to open up. I would recommend it, but it's one-of-a-kind as you know.
However, as you can see in the photos below, there is indeed a clear correlation between the lines of cracks across the face, and the lines of storm damage that show across the back. This is interesting, and I am prepared to concede that 'damage-caused-by-wind' is after all, a thing. It seems to me that willow follows Hookes Law, which we all remember from O Level Physics. Storm damage appears when the tree slightly exceeds its elasticity limit, enough to mark the wood, but not so much that the tree snaps or falls over.
But! I also strongly believe that this concession does to some extent start to prove my point. In my opinion, storm damage is a symptom of catastrophic bat failure, but is not the cause. My feeling is that my bat will crack, but not break, because the higher moisture content at cellular level will continue to bind the fibres of the wood together. In cases like the Carberry incident, the timber fractured along the storm damaged line because it was dried too far, not because of the winds the tree was subjected to as it grew.
So, feel free to continue the debate. I'll keep playing, and reporting on progress.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/p3pm79fgx/new3.png)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/e44evnwrl/new4.png)
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That knot would buff up beautifully
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That knot would buff up beautifully
When I eventually retire the bat, I'll ask the guv'nor if I can have it properly restored and displayed on the mantlepiece. I imagine the answer will be quite short, but one can only try...
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I’m not sure if the cracking to the blade is linked to the storm damage. I’d be of the opinion that it wasn’t pressed or prepared fully, some pretty decent seam marks showing on it. Hardwood can break and show damage more easily but wouldn’t expect a bat to look like that because of storm damage.
I’ve not had much experience with storm damage bats however my last bat was storm damaged and lasted for almost 2 years. At no point did it show any signs like yours is in terms of face cracking but as all clefts are different that may not mean much. Interested to see how this develops
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I’m not sure if the cracking to the blade is linked to the storm damage. I’d be of the opinion that it wasn’t pressed or prepared fully, some pretty decent seam marks showing on it. Hardwood can break and show damage more easily but wouldn’t expect a bat to look like that because of storm damage.
I’ve not had much experience with storm damage bats however my last bat was storm damaged and lasted for almost 2 years. At no point did it show any signs like yours is in terms of face cracking but as all clefts are different that may not mean much. Interested to see how this develops
Thanks John, that's an interesting comment. It's definitely possible that I'm making a deeper connection between cracks and storm damage areas than I should. When you see the bat up close there does seem to be a correlation, but it's true that the experiment may be overtaking the actualite!
I can confirm an almost total absence of knocking in. Too noisy, and too much time I'll never get back! The pressing though was made by a batmaker of the highest level. It would not be fair to name him as this is just an experiment, but I'm confident that the cracks are not the result of a lack of skill in that area.
I'll keep reporting back with results as things progress.
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There may be no correlation to the location of the storm damage and the cracks.
It may be coincidence.
Two of the three storm damage lines appear to be well in the strike zone. Or 'middle'.
So that area will simply have been subject to more hits than elsewhere on the bat.
Hence, you'd expect to find more cracks in that area anyway.
Just a thought.
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There may be no correlation to the location of the storm damage and the cracks.
It may be coincidence.
Two of the three storm damage lines appear to be well in the strike zone. Or 'middle'.
So that area will simply have been subject to more hits than elsewhere on the bat.
Hence, you'd expect to find more cracks in that area anyway.
Just a thought.
Ah @Mattsky that's the best thing anyone has ever said about my batting. I'm blushing over here...
To be honest i was expecting more comment about the increasing amounts of tape covering the outside edge!
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Hmm, I still reckon you've got a good chance of that going right clean half in two! Those cracks don't look promising, even with the wood being a bit less dry.
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Hmm, I still reckon you've got a good chance of that going right clean half in two! Those cracks don't look promising, even with the wood being a bit less dry.
You may be right mate, but testing to destruction is all part of the fun! The bat has lost one ounce in weight over the last 6 weeks or so, i guess this moisture reduction could be unhelpful. No stress, I've got another one already made up in the garage.
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You may be right mate, but testing to destruction is all part of the fun! The bat has lost one ounce in weight over the last 6 weeks or so, i guess this moisture reduction could be unhelpful. No stress, I've got another one already made up in the garage.
That's the spirit, enjoy the moment if it does go and move on to the next wand. The one time I've had one properly split on me suddenly it was quite amusing watching mid-off trying to avoid half a bat!
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Afternoon all!
Raining here in Suffolk, the season is all over, so I thought I'd briefly wrap this up as promised. The bat made it through, quite comfortably really, it was responding much better at the end of the season than the beginning. This makes sense as there was zero knocking in prior to the first game. At season end, it weighed about 1.5oz less than at the beginning. I batted 12 times, scored just over 300 runs at about 30, with 2 50's.
In my opinion the storm damage made no difference to performance, though at my level of talent it's hard to suggest that I bring the best or worst out of any piece of kit! There are some good looking cracks on the face and edges. Personally, I think that there is a correlation between these cracks and the lines of storm damage, but it's tough to be sure. You need to see it in your hand to really judge, but anyway here's some final photos for you to consider.
Overall, it was an interesting experiment. I might take off another 3-4 oz in the close season, it is a bit of a lump to be honest. Alternatively, I might make another bat. Decisions, decisions...
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hQv0PTR/20180922_155537.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xC5Vj3jn/20180922_155431.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pf6nByFM/20180922_155452.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTcVYmwV/20180922_155522.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zvfZyH3W/20180922_155511.jpg)
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Thanks for sharing your experiment. It was an interesting read. So it is going to be a feature in your living room now?
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Thanks for sharing your experiment. It was an interesting read. So it is going to be a feature in your living room now?
Hahaha well I guess my wife might say 'it's me or the bat.' As I said earlier, decisions decisions... :)
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Hahaha well I guess my wife might say 'it's me or the bat.' As I said earlier, decisions decisions... :)
The bat. The bat ;)
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Could your next experiment be to use an underpressed ('pro pressed') bat and see how that lasts ?
Thanks for this thread , good read.
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Could your next experiment be to use an underpressed ('pro pressed') bat and see how that lasts ?
Thanks for this thread , good read.
That's an interesting idea. Just need to find a batmaker who does actually press differently for pros and is prepared to do the same for me. I'll look into it. Alternatively I could just go with a completely unpressed cleft, and see what happens.
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Or over dry a cleft and see if it does give an improved performance?
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Or over dry a cleft and see if it does give an improved performance?
That's good too. Probably getting to a stage where we would need a better batsman than me, who practises and plays more games than i do, to really understand the results.
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Afternoon all! It's almost a year since I completed this thread, so time for a brief follow up. The original test bat was retired at the end of last season, and still takes pride of place in the garage as my dear wife won't allow me to hang it over the mantlepiece. So, for this season I made a new bat, from another cleft from the same tree, with the same storm damage lines. Batting yesterday for the final time this season, I crushed a massive off drive, and this was the result:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxbPKgj7/Broken-Bat.jpg)
I always said I would be fair and honest with this test. The first bat survived, the second did not. I have one final cleft from that tree, so I guess the 2020 season will be decisive!
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Brilliant experiment and thanks for the write up - it made excellent reading.
The only bat i've ever had go catastrophically went right through the middle of a knot in the wood, it split directly through the middle of the knot extending all the way through the blade. It was also Kashmir Willow which might have made the difference.
All the best for 2020.
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Afternoon all! It's almost a year since I completed this thread, so time for a brief follow up. The original test bat was retired at the end of last season, and still takes pride of place in the garage as my dear wife won't allow me to hang it over the mantlepiece. So, for this season I made a new bat, from another cleft from the same tree, with the same storm damage lines. Batting yesterday for the final time this season, I crushed a massive off drive, and this was the result:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxbPKgj7/Broken-Bat.jpg)
I always said I would be fair and honest with this test. The first bat survived, the second did not. I have one final cleft from that tree, so I guess the 2020 season will be decisive!
So we can conclude that its not a myth afterall. It has the potential to break and you might get lucky. Beyond that its just a game of probabilities
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So we can conclude that its not a myth afterall. It has the potential to break and you might get lucky. Beyond that its just a game of probabilities
That's probably right @Mfarank , yes. What I would add is that in my opinion, when a reputable batmaker - and I don't include myself in that (!) - offers a storm damaged bat at a fantastic price, it is definitely worth considering. I'll just get back to the workshop. :)