Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Mfarank on June 19, 2018, 06:06:50 AM
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He CBFers,
So i was having a discussion with my teammate and he wasnt ready to believe that Kookaburra bats are made in india now. So i thought id increase my knowledge and get some help from the experienced gentlemen here. So the question is: where do these brands manufacture (country and/or outsourced factory)
1. Gray Nicolls UK - India
2. Gray Nicolls Australia - India
3. Kookaburra UK - India/ SG(?)
4. Kookaburra Australia - ???
5. Gunn and Moore - UK
6. New Balance - India (NB factory in india)
7. Adidas - ?
8. Puma - ?
9. Slazenger - ?
10. CP - Pakistan (brother of the Ca guy)
11. Spartan - India??
12. Newbery - grade 3 and below india, grade 2 and above UK?
Correct me if im wrong with any of these. If u know which factories outsource the brands please do mention. Let the brainstorming begin!
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Slazenger, Adidas (I think Puma too) and NB are made in the Sondhi factory. (Adidas may have moved to SS)
Kookaburra have most bats made by SG by I believe they have some made near Melbourne.
Spartan use all sorts, mostly SS.
Newbery use a bit of Aldred, a lot of SF and some are made in sussex
There is another thread with loads more brands on too.
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CP and CA owners aren't brothers. The 2 companies have no ties at all. HS and CA owners are brother.
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Slazenger, Adidas (I think Puma too) and NB are made in the Sondhi factory. (Adidas may have moved to SS)
Kookaburra have most bats made by SG by I believe they have some made near Melbourne.
Spartan use all sorts, mostly SS.
Newbery use a bit of Aldred, a lot of SF and some are made in sussex
There is another thread with loads more brands on too.
From what i have been told by an individual inside kookaburra, all Kookaburra in Aus has been made in india, designed in Australia, made in india
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CP and CA owners aren't brothers. The 2 companies have no ties at all. HS and CA owners are brother.
Yeah, CP Cricket is Kashif Gul, decent bloke down in London - Neasden way I think. Bats made in Pakistan as far as I know, but not sure where exactly.
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From what i have been told by an individual inside kookaburra, all Kookaburra in Aus has been made in india, designed in Australia, made in india
Theres an instagram account by the name of Kookabatcave who claims to be the kookaburra batmaker in australia. I guess he must only produce bats for pros then.
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Yeah, CP Cricket is Kashif Gul, decent bloke down in London - Neasden way I think. Bats made in Pakistan as far as I know, but not sure where exactly.
Very interesting. From what i have been told, Ca, HS, CP, AM are all brothers who branched out from Ca itself.
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There is or was a small Kook workshop in Aus wasn't there? I can't remember who (maybe McVicar???) mentioned starting out there
Didn't the lad who started Vantage go and work there for a bit?
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Theres an instagram account by the name of Kookabatcave who claims to be the kookaburra batmaker in australia. I guess he must only produce bats for pros then.
I know Dan Nichols (formerly of Vantage Cricket) was working for Kookaburra in Aus - however I would assume that their main and public stock of bats are made in the sub-continent and Dan only makes and fixes pro bats, if he's still there (his last posts of bats were in 2015)
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Don't know about CP, but yes I have heard CA and HS are brothers.
AM may be related, I have no idea, but have their own history going back almost as far as CA if not the same time.
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Isn't Spartans top bat maker he guy who made for Kook and based in Aus.
He was on the telly during the winter Ashes discussing bat making.
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Isn't Spartans top bat maker he guy who made for Kook and based in Aus.
He was on the telly during the winter Ashes discussing bat making.
Reg Taylor? I think he's previously been linked to Impala and Sommers hasn't he?
As far as I know he only makes for some of their pros, and his first TV appearance during the Ashes (4 years ago, can you believe?) was a genius bit of marketing by Spartan!
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There is or was a small Kook workshop in Aus wasn't there? I can't remember who (maybe McVicar???) mentioned starting out there
Yeah there is a small Aus based workshop - https://www.instagram.com/kookabatcave/ (https://www.instagram.com/kookabatcave/)
Only seems to be pro bats made there though, the off-the-shelf bats all come from India.
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12. Newbery.
Are the handles and finishing standardised, or can the trained eye differentiate between Newberys made in different parts of the country and in India?
Has anyone seen enough of their bats lately to know? They don't get talked about much!
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12. Newbery.
Are the handles and finishing standardised, or can the trained eye differentiate between Newberys made in different parts of the country and in India?
Has anyone seen enough of their bats lately to know? They don't get talked about much!
A relatively untrained eye is enough to spot the difference.
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A relatively untrained eye is enough to spot the difference.
So you can tell an Aldred Newbery from a 'made in Sussex' Newbery?
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So you can tell an Aldred Newbery from a 'made in Sussex' Newbery?
Haven't seen a TK one right next to a PA one but I'd imagine so, the Indian made ones for sure.
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Haven't seen a TK one right next to a PA one but I'd imagine so, the Indian made ones for sure.
Yes, I figured the Indian ones would look and feel different. They are the cheaper models after all.
Might it be as simple as rolling back the grip and looking at the twine on the UK ones?
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I'd imagine so, nothing about how the 'new' owners have gone about their business suggests they'd go to any trouble to do otherwise.
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Yes, I figured the Indian one would look and feel different. They are the cheaper models after all.
Might it be as simple as rolling back the grip and looking at the twine on the UK ones?
The last Newbery I knocked in was top grade and deffo Indian made
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Also g.n u.k top bats made in u.k (Northbridge? ), and g.n aus top bats made in melbourne oz. G.m have some bats ( not sure if lower end or just for indian market) made by dsc factory in india ( or maybe its easier to think of it as dsc are made by gm india ?). Mrf made by loads of companies like s.s , rns , zx , bdm etc. Ceat mostly made by zx plus others (similar to mrf).
I thought puma were still made by s.s but buzz may be right and maybe they are coming out of sondhi these days .
Maybe someone else can go into which u.k brands are made by tk and which by others etc.
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So you can tell an Aldred Newbery from a 'made in Sussex' Newbery?
I think that Paul only makes the pro bats for Newbery, rather than the ones sold to the public.
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Isn't Spartans top bat maker he guy who made for Kook and based in Aus.
He was on the telly during the winter Ashes discussing bat making.
I also don't think it's any great secret that Chris Gayle's bats are made by David Wolstenholme in Norfolk.
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I think that Paul only makes the pro bats for Newbery, rather than the ones sold to the public.
If TK is still involved, why would they not want bats made by him?
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Also g.n u.k top bats made in u.k (Northbridge? ), and g.n aus top bats made in melbourne oz. G.m have some bats ( not sure if lower end or just for indian market) made by dsc factory in india ( or maybe its easier to think of it as dsc are made by gm india ?). Mrf made by loads of companies like s.s , rns , zx , bdm etc. Ceat mostly made by zx plus others (similar to mrf).
I thought puma were still made by s.s but buzz may be right and maybe they are coming out of sondhi these days .
Maybe someone else can go into which u.k brands are made by tk and which by others etc.
I remember reading in some blog or maybe in one of IJC videos that even the GN legend is manufactured in india. Same with the top GN bats like halestorm
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I also don't think it's any great secret that Chris Gayle's bats are made by David Wolstenholme in Norfolk.
I never knew. And I've definitely heard others make claim.
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Maybe it's rime for another reminder that this forum was set up to champion the cause of independent UK podshavers?
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Bats seem to have gone to crazy prices in the few years i've been away.
Wonder if its possible to get the original shape MH Distinction ......... i love that bat. The newer ones had the middle too high up.
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Also g.n u.k top bats made in u.k (Northbridge? ),
Robertsbridge.
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From https://www.meulemans.com.au/product-category/cricket-bats/kookaburra-1617/ (https://www.meulemans.com.au/product-category/cricket-bats/kookaburra-1617/)
"One of the biggest selling points of these beautiful bats is that each and every one is handmade here in Australia by expert craftsmen... "
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Dan is not involved with kook anymore as far as I’m aware. He does however run his own brand out there.
Kook do indeed have a bat maker who posts on Instagram quite a bit. A very good bat maker who makes a lot for the Pros
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Dan is not involved with kook anymore as far as I’m aware. He does however run his own brand out there.
Kook do indeed have a bat maker who posts on Instagram quite a bit. A very good bat maker who makes a lot for the Pros
Did you ever meet Dan when he was in / near Bedford, John?
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Did you ever meet Dan when he was in / near Bedford, John?
Yep. Knew him through club cricket and also bat making via here.
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Yep. Knew him through club cricket and also bat making via here.
Cool. I seem to remember his bats getting a bit of TV exposure courtesy of a Northants debutant whose name I can't remember.
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He played for ampthill. Alex wakeley played there when he was younger, there’s also a few other northants players who have played locally so certainly an opportunity with the right contact
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Yes, I guess that's where I was pointing...
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Alex Wakely seems to have had nearly as many bat sponsors as he's had first-class hundreds.
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Just to add to this, does anyone still make their own handles, I know Crown did when in Dewsbury, Warssop? Hawk?
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Just to add to this, does anyone still make their own handles, I know Crown did when in Dewsbury, Warssop? Hawk?
Hawk were making handles last time I visited.
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Charlie French too IIRC
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Just to add to this, does anyone still make their own handles, I know Crown did when in Dewsbury, Warssop? Hawk?
Charlie French was making his own handles, but last time we spoke he told me it was becoming increasingly difficult to import raw cane. Not sure what the reason for this was. Very time consuming to make handles, and no particular margin to be gained by doing it.
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An old friend with some interesting words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRMBVz1-Uk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRMBVz1-Uk)
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Hmm, just get the vibe he's turning into an angry man
I like his bats, and I like Paul, but he does like to have a whinge
Julian Millichamp shaped pre made bats,,,would anyone argue or have a go at him for that?'
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I agree with a lot of what he says. And he doesn't come across as angry at all.
If you read the comments below, though, he doesn't seem very aware of Tim Keeley's substantial role in the whole pre-made/ white label game. Indeed, he is full of praise for Keeley.
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It can be argued as handle is part of the bat , he should be making his own handles.
Only because I agree he can at times come across as a whinger!
Agree re what does he think of Millichamp etc... Does JPGavan do the same?
People will have different opinions on this and they will all be justified.
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I think the consumer has the right to know exactly what they are buying and exactly where it was made.
Julian Millichamp was clearly a capable batmaker. Doesn't mean he should be the benchmark for consumer ethics.
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Correct me if im wrong but i remember reading in the comments section of one of IJC videos where paul mentioned that all M&H bats are now manufactured in india and theyr not honest about it. Hence IJC stopped stocking them.
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Julian Millichamp sold Millichamp & Hall on, many years ago.
But, yes, M&H are rumoured to outsource production and may be a good example of what Paul is talking about.
IJC seem to start and stop stocking most brands.
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I enjoyed listening to Paul Aldred he’s genuine & passionate which made me really want to try his bats to see if his results match his rhetoric
So much that I found a couple more videos and same applies.
So in an overcrowded world of bat makers/shapers/sticker appliers he is on the right track - be different & proud
Made me search Ebay for a decent price, light, high middle Aldred - and then realised the irony that I’d completely ignored his advice
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An old friend with some interesting words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRMBVz1-Uk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRMBVz1-Uk)
As long as a company is transparent about it's activity and not trying to lie the customer about it, I don't see a problem with it.
I agree to some parts in the video but the way Paul has come across here in this video to show himself superior is Hippocratic. Couple of years back when I was looking for some willow and contacted him as well among other companies for oversize willow, he was more than willing to sell the partmade bats. I still have his messages in my pm here. Now suddenly he has a problem with all the "batshapers" around as he got the big fish "Newbery" and he not longer need small orders? Upto an extent that he wants a law in this regard!
Indeed there is a talent and hard work involved in handling and pressing part of the bat making. Other than to save time, there are other genuine reasons why some are not doing it themselves.
I am shaping bats for 6 years now and mostly in open space. I still do not have finances to build my own workshop and get everything done by my own.
I can extend his logic by saying only H4L and even our talented forumite JK Lewis are true bat makers as they grow their own trees and it takes talent to take care of the tree, in nurturing, cutting it and getting it ready in the shape Paul gets when he starts his bat making process.
When you buy a raw cleft from a direct source, it is way cheaper than buying a part made cleft from a company while the final price has to be competitive. It is a false impression that those using partmades are making truck loads of money or there is no hard work involved.
I wouldn't go on and demean a company who is selling ready made finished bats as long as they are open about it. It is still a hard work. It needs good open communication, understanding customer's requirements and after sales support. Even retailers have to work hard. Nothing comes easy.
I have stayed and worked for weeks with supremely talented batmaking workers in India working for big companies and even though they are living in obscurity they are as good and talented batmakers as any others who can afford to market their skills online.
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Hippocratic? Is that a word?
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I can understand why a batmaker who shapes, presses, planes and handles their willow is a little bit put out when someone who simply sands and sticks stickers tries to put themselves on equal footing.
Most buying bats don't really care, so I've never understood why more companies aren't honest about their processes.
I always found it quite funny about 10 years back when Newbery were so focused on legacy and hand-making, then GM come along with essentially the same process and don't stop talking about the innovation and machinery.
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I can understand his point, due to the amount of work that goes in - however, by doing everything yourself - you're ultimately going to make more money. I'm sure brands like mine, would love to make their own bats from scratch - however, we pay for the most premium bats that we can source. If we were to make them ourselves, they wouldn't be anything like the quality we are currently selling. Ultimately we have made a decision to pay a premium price for the best quality bats that we can source.
I haven't watched his video, however the one thing that always sticks in my mind when it comes to talking about this is that people that do have an issue with this, don't make their own pads, gloves etc from scratch - therefore their argument is flawed in my opinion. Outsourcing goes on in (probably) every industry in the world, so I don't understand why people have an issue with it in the cricketing world.
Most buying bats don't really care, so I've never understood why more companies aren't honest about their processes.
We try to be as honest as we can, in our latest blog we state that our bats are outsourced.
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I can understand his point, due to the amount of work that goes in - however, by doing everything yourself - you're ultimately going to make more money. I'm sure brands like mine, would love to make their own bats from scratch - however, we pay for the most premium bats that we can source. If we were to make them ourselves, they wouldn't be anything like the quality we are currently selling. Ultimately we have made a decision to pay a premium price for the best quality bats that we can source.
I haven't watched his video, however the one thing that always sticks in my mind when it comes to talking about this is that people that have an issue with this don't make his own pads, gloves etc from scratch - therefore this argument is flawed in my opinion. Outsourcing goes on in (probably) every industry in the world, so I don't understand why people have an issue with it in the cricketing world.
We try to be as honest as we can, in our latest blog we state that our bats are outsourced.
That is my biggest ire too when people moan about outsourcing!!! ... They should stop selling their own branded softs. Absolutely Right, if you are so strongly opinionated on this.
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I always found it quite funny about 10 years back when Newbery were so focused on legacy and hand-making, then GM come along with essentially the same process and don't stop talking about the innovation and machinery.
"We use a machine now, so as to maximise profit" probably isn't going to sell a lot of bats. Indeed, it might even serve to prove the statement incorrect.
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Hippocratic? Is that a word?
Isn't it something to do with the medical profession making an oath around an ethical code?
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Isn't it something to do with the medical profession making an oath around an ethical code?
Sorry guys, the correct word is Hypocrite.
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Sorry guys, the correct word is Hypocrite.
Hypocritical.
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Never understood why anyone would pay a premium to a sticker upper bat shaper or non manufacturer for there bat
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Hypocritical.
You can start a grammar class mate, I will happily join. Thanks for all the corrections.
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Who makes Bear bats?
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You can start a grammar class mate, I will happily join. Thanks for all the corrections.
I haven't got time, I'm afraid. I've got my work cut out trying to work out which is the best cricket equipment brand.
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Who makes Bear bats?
I saw a few of them at Cricket Asylum a while ago and it seems that they were made by a company in the same county.
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I saw a few of them at Cricket Asylum a while ago and it seems that they were made by a company in the same county.
Kippax or Jedi?
Tattersall's using them.
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Who makes Bear bats?
From the Bear website:
"Each of our bats is handmade by our master bat maker with premium Grade 1 English Willow grown in private forests here in the UK and comes pre-knocked in with an anti-scuff and edging tape applied."
I think we can all work out who it is from that :)
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From the Bear website:
"Each of our bats is handmade by our master bat maker with premium Grade 1 English Willow grown in private forests here in the UK and comes pre-knocked in with an anti-scuff and edging tape applied."
I think we can all work out who it is from that :)
Not necessarily. Might just be clefts are sourced from Kippax?
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As long as a company is transparent about it's activity and not trying to lie the customer about it, I don't see a problem with it.
I agree to some parts in the video but the way Paul has come across here in this video to show himself superior is Hippocratic. Couple of years back when I was looking for some willow and contacted him as well among other companies for oversize willow, he was more than willing to sell the partmade bats. I still have his messages in my pm here. Now suddenly he has a problem with all the "batshapers" around as he got the big fish "Newbery" and he not longer need small orders? Upto an extent that he wants a law in this regard!
Indeed there is a talent and hard work involved in handling and pressing part of the bat making. Other than to save time, there are other genuine reasons why some are not doing it themselves.
I am shaping bats for 6 years now and mostly in open space. I still do not have finances to build my own workshop and get everything done by my own.
I can extend his logic by saying only H4L and even our talented forumite JK Lewis are true bat makers as they grow their own trees and it takes talent to take care of the tree, in nurturing, cutting it and getting it ready in the shape Paul gets when he starts his bat making process.
When you buy a raw cleft from a direct source, it is way cheaper than buying a part made cleft from a company while the final price has to be competitive. It is a false impression that those using partmades are making truck loads of money or there is no hard work involved.
I wouldn't go on and demean a company who is selling ready made finished bats as long as they are open about it. It is still a hard work. It needs good open communication, understanding customer's requirements and after sales support. Even retailers have to work hard. Nothing comes easy.
I have stayed and worked for weeks with supremely talented batmaking workers in India working for big companies and even though they are living in obscurity they are as good and talented batmakers as any others who can afford to market their skills online.
Appreciate the nod, thank you. But just to clarify slightly. I do fell trees and make clefts, I also do much of my own batmaking. However, I don't have a press, so I depend on people such as Paul and Ed Garrard for support with this operation.
Pressing is not just a skill, it is also a significant investment. I think that it is a differentiator between a true batmaker, us 'shapers', and the sticker brands. Not that there's anything wrong with shaping or stickering, but I can understand why those who have a complete equipment portfolio might consider themselves to be at a slightly higher level of the cricket bat manufacturing chain.
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As long as a company is transparent about it's activity and not trying to lie the customer about it, I don't see a problem with it.
I agree to some parts in the video but the way Paul has come across here in this video to show himself superior is Hippocratic.
I find much of what he says deeply hypocritical and he doesn't take well at all to being challenged even when what he has said is nonsense.
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Smasher bats?
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Anyone know anything about Speed ? ( please don't tell me it was a movie starring keanu reeves and sandra bullock ! :D)
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Are phantom and viking TK as well?
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So i have heard a rumor that phantom are no longer associated with TK and are now manufacturing all their bats from Robinsons india
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Are phantom and viking TK as well?
I think Viking are made by the guy that runs Jedi.
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So i have heard a rumor that phantom are no longer associated with TK and are now manufacturing all their bats from Robinsons india
Would be surprised, their softs come from elsewhere...
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So i have heard a rumor that phantom are no longer associated with TK and are now manufacturing all their bats from Robinsons india
Heard only bad things about phantoms customer service, but there hats are quite good
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Heard only bad things about phantoms customer service, but there hats are quite good
Do they do aussie style baggy ones? ;)
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Do they do aussie style baggy ones? ;)
Ba-dum-tss. Who makes their softs? Out of curiosity.
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Dan is not involved with kook anymore as far as I’m aware. He does however run his own brand out there.
Kook do indeed have a bat maker who posts on Instagram quite a bit. A very good bat maker who makes a lot for the Pros
Dan Nicolls
(https://i.imgur.com/x8SP6X7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W59RZfe.jpg)
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Do anyone know who made cricket bats for Reebok in 2010?