Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: six and out on March 13, 2019, 09:07:38 PM
-
Excellent article from Athers on Club Cricket....
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-atherton-to-survive-club-cricket-must-remember-people-actually-like-playing-it-bcdg5ptml (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-atherton-to-survive-club-cricket-must-remember-people-actually-like-playing-it-bcdg5ptml)
Article is also below -
Mike Atherton: To survive, club cricket must remember people actually like playing it
Much of what is written about cricket concerns barely 1 per cent of the people who play it, or are involved in it, in this country. It is no less true in these pages, where we concentrate largely on men’s and women’s professional cricket, here and abroad, at the expense of the recreational game.
Professional cricket may be newsworthy but it is not the heart and soul of the game, which resides in the clubs up and down the land — the 7,000 of them that make up the recreational game here, along with the many itinerant wandering sides — and through the volunteers, enthusiasts and committed week-in week-out players who keep the show rolling along.
One of the great strengths of Australian cricket was the umbilical cord that joined the professional and amateur games, with players able to move almost seamlessly between the two, and links developed in childhood sustained through a professional career and beyond. These ties are weaker than they once were, but still stronger than in England.
Here, the professional and amateur games, though administered by one governing body, exist largely separately, the former well funded, the latter surviving hand-to-mouth. My own club career came unceremoniously to a halt once I had been capped by Lancashire, league rules at the time preventing a capped (ie established) player representing his boyhood club as an amateur — a ridiculous state of affairs. It should have been encouraged, not frowned upon.
No wonder, then, the irritation occasionally expressed when those from the professional game dare to tell their amateur counterparts how to run the show. Last week, Harry Gurney, the Nottinghamshire left-arm seamer, fresh from a triumph in the Big Bash League, suggested that all club and league cricket should be Twenty20, better to stop the decline in numbers and the loss of players at that crucial late-teenage stage of life, and the better to encourage wider participation from those for whom a longer game is too time-demanding.
Reaction was mixed, but there was, at least, a reaction: part sensible, part ridiculous, occasionally humorous, often spiteful. Mixed, too, in the conclusions there were some who agreed with Gurney; more who told him to stick to the pub trade (Gurney owns two pubs in Nottinghamshire with Stuart Broad).
The difficulty is partly knowing the state of the decline in relative terms. Last month there was an editorial in this newspaper on the decline of village cricket and this weekend the Essex batsman Tom Westley’s old club, Weston Colville, withdrew from the Cambridgeshire Cricket Association league because of the difficulties in putting out a team. They first played cricket in that village in 1867 and now cannot put out a senior team, although the junior section will continue.
These closures tend to be newsworthy, but it is not clear that cricket is any worse affected than any other team sport. On the broadest definition of engagement, the ECB says that there are 2.5 million active players in England, roughly half of them senior, half junior. This, though, is a useless statistic, it being the broadest, most generous definition of inclusion. About 800,000 play some sort of formal cricket in leagues, and roughly a third of those might be termed regular, once-a-week, players.
The fact that numbers have dropped in recent years is undeniable, but almost every team sport faces the same issue. The most recent Sport England study comparing once-a-week participation for over-16s showed a decline in football, for example, from a little over 2 million players to 1.8 million over a ten-year period. The general trend is away from team sports to more individual pursuits, a trend that fits with the atomisation of modern life and the decline in membership of traditional, community-based institutions.
No club is typical; each has their own challenges. The story of my own — Radlett in the Saracens Hertfordshire League — is this: since the chairman Tony Johnson became involved in 1985, the number of senior playing members has held steady, at between 90-100, while junior participation has soared. The club runs 19 junior teams and has 220 registered junior players. It puts out four senior teams on Saturdays and one, sometimes two, on a Sunday.
There remains a strong appetite within it for a longer form of the game at the top end on Saturdays, the type of game that will enable players of all types to be involved and feel satisfied or knackered at the day’s end. The first team (in the county premier league, and therefore a very decent standard) play a mixture of timed cricket and overs cricket and some players come from university, hundreds of miles away, for a game — something that they would be unlikely to do for a 20-over match.
Likewise, in the same week as Gurney’s tweet, the Herts league held its annual meeting and I am told that there was widespread support for maintaining a longer format, especially in the top divisions.
Lower down, the bottom three divisions (out of 27) voted for a slightly shorter matches of 45 overs a side on Saturdays for this year.
It seems unfashionable to say it, but some people actually like playing the game. No sport, perhaps, does existential angst as well as cricket and in the rush for new formats to attract a new audience, for Facebook likes, Twitter followers and bite-sized packages, there is a core constituency that enjoys the layered complexity of a longer, more satisfying game. There is a danger that they get taken for granted, or their wishes ignored.
Equally, it would be absurd to deny that, for many, long days do not tally with family commitments and many find two games a weekend a struggle. The former England captain Michael Vaughan’s idea of longer matches on Saturdays, combined with T20s on Sundays — juniors in the morning, seniors in the afternoon — certainly carries merit. ECB research suggests that numbers of core, regular players are holding up precisely because of the variety of options available. Choice of format is key.
The biggest challenge for many clubs is not necessarily playing numbers but social engagement beyond that and finding volunteers to fill key roles. All told, there are close to 500 playing and social members at our club but many use it as a cricketing facility alone, rather than as a social hub like it used to be. Again, these are societal trends, rather than problems particular to cricket, although they bring significant challenges to income streams. It is, says our chairman, a “precarious, hand-to-mouth existence”.
The debate around club cricket provides no easy answers, except to say that there needs to be a variety of formats to engage all, from the committed, to the irregular, as well as to provide a platform for growth. As the days lengthen, the grass begins to grow and the trumpets of spring announce the end of winter, it is also a reminder that we can all do a little more for our clubs; no matter how good or incompetent, how committed or casual, it is where we all started out."
-
The best article on amateur cricket I think I’ve ever
Read. That there should be a format for everyone from draw to 2020 hitting. Literally exactly what it should be in every league system
-
Athers is one of the best cricket writers around and that is an excellent article. The challenge for all Clubs is to offer enough variety to keep as many involved as possible. For example, my Club has many players leaving junior cricket who aren't interested in playing 90+ over games but still want to play T20 games but there is currently a weekend league in this area offering that.
The lack of commitment outside of actually playing is also a factor. One Club in the county has had to make a late withdaw despite having a pretty talented squad because none of them were prepared to help out in bringing money into the club or helping out with jobs that needed doing. It has always been the case that some players want to play their game and leave others to take on the responsibility of doing everything else that needs doing in order to get a game of cricket on, but that seems to be an increasing trend sadly
-
Reckon most CB members/ grass roots cricketers could have written a similar article.
-
Personally I enjoy the longer forms of the game, but I do find it difficult to balance the time against family commitments.
Cricket is also one of the longer and more expensive games (you need substantial kit), so it is only natural that it may be one of the first to suffer from a drop off in participation.
I would welcome more short form options in my league, as I would probably play more often. With a young toddler in the family, I would find it much easier to nip away for a couple of hours, than to take the whole afternoon and evening off for the 50/50 game. With this in mind, I certainly don't think it's stupid to think about more 20/20 at village level if participation continues to drop off.
Though I think the lack of free/terrestial TV coverage is the real problem.
-
Personally I enjoy the longer forms of the game, but I do find it difficult to balance the time against family commitments.
Cricket is also one of the longer and more expensive games (you need substantial kit), so it is only natural that it may be one of the first to suffer from a drop off in participation.
I would welcome more short form options in my league, as I would probably play more often. With a young toddler in the family, I would find it much easier to nip away for a couple of hours, than to take the whole afternoon and evening off for the 50/50 game. With this in mind, I certainly don't think it's stupid to think about more 20/20 at village level if participation continues to drop off.
Though I think the lack of free/terrestial TV coverage is the real problem.
Completely agree, can only play maybe one in four Saturday games these days because of family commitments - if there were short games on Sunday like Michael Vaughan had suggested I'd pretty much be there every week bar holidays etc. Even if the standard wasn't as good it would be worth it to play the game. Think that's what Athers is getting at, there's plenty of people out there that want to play, all different formats. Local clubs and leagues should really look at putting on as diverse a bunch of leagues as possible - or at least seeing what the appetite would be for that.
-
The fact that its by far the best article written on club cricket is damning it with faint praise. Its a good article, but its still off the mark in a few areas.
" it is not clear that cricket is any worse affected than any other team sport", well actually it is. Some team sports have gone up, some have gone down, none have collapsed as badly as cricket.
"The biggest challenge for many clubs is not necessarily playing numbers", this possibly true for some clubs, but this distracts from the fact that the massive drop-off in new players entering the sport is the major cause of clubs folding, and there are a LOT of clubs folding.
-
Rugby has big challenges in Kent with player numbers. Two local clubs in my town, one ran 6 sides 10 years ago, the other 4/5. They both now struggle getting 3 out on a Sat. Granted neither club has folded, but the playing numbers and frequency people play, has dropped massively. The Maidstone & District Football league dissolved in 2018 due to lack of teams - it had been going 125 years. Used to have 5 divisions. So there are issues in lots of other teams sports, be it football/rugby/cricket/hockey. Basically the sports that require lots of travel to away games. What are the reasons? Don't know - the other sports only last 90 mins. I just think guys in their late teens early 20's just can't be arsed to commit to sport every week but would rather go to the gym or be down the pub watching football results come in on Sky Sports.
-
I liked the article. In our area we have a midweek league that does 2020 and Saturdays are longer format. This works quite well as it doesn't take out the whole weekend. Although I much prefer longer format, I'm like one of the other writers only able to do 1 in 3 or so of Saturdays because of family commitments (hoping to increase it this this year, we'll see...). Also, my 17 year old enjoyed junior cricket, but when he played a senior match last season he said `never again' because it was so long...
-
I liked the article. In our area we have a midweek league that does 2020 and Saturdays are longer format. This works quite well as it doesn't take out the whole weekend. Although I much prefer longer format, I'm like one of the other writers only able to do 1 in 3 or so of Saturdays because of family commitments (hoping to increase it this this year, we'll see...). Also, my 17 year old enjoyed junior cricket, but when he played a senior match last season he said `never again' because it was so long...
When I started playing club cricket as a teenager back in the 90s, I played 3 years just playing weekly T20s before I built up enough aptitude and appetite to want to play 50 over games for the club 1st team.
40/45/50-over games are fun if you're the one bowling a 10 over spell and/or scoring a ton. If this isn't you, then they can be really boring and miserable.
-
Reckon most CB members/ grass roots cricketers could have written a similar article.
I don’t know
We have varied opinions on this forum alone. We have people that want..
Timed games
Draw games
5050 win lose
45/45 win lose
40/40 win lose
30/30 win lose
2020
We literally hace exactly what Athens describes.. the need for a league system to provide all of the above to each and every player. It really is the only way to increase participation, removal of any format will simply shrink it
-
I don’t know
We have varied opinions on this forum alone. We have people that want..
Timed games
Draw games
5050 win lose
45/45 win lose
40/40 win lose
30/30 win lose
2020
We literally hace exactly what Athens describes.. the need for a league system to provide all of the above to each and every player. It really is the only way to increase participation, removal of any format will simply shrink it
Yup. I have my personal preferences, other people have theirs, but ultimately its a democracy. Players tell their clubs what they want to play, and clubs tell the league, so the league provides what the players want.
-
When I started playing club cricket as a teenager back in the 90s, I played 3 years just playing weekly T20s before I built up enough aptitude and appetite to want to play 50 over games for the club 1st team.
40/45/50-over games are fun if you're the one bowling a 10 over spell and/or scoring a ton. If this isn't you, then they can be really boring and miserable.
The shorter the format, the less people participate as you always get 2-3 stars doing the batt/bowling/keeping so each team needs 2-3 make weights who are happy to do nothing. This type of person is getting rarer.
Just need to ensure all formats are catered for
Sat league system
Div 1-4 draw
Rest 45 win lose
Parallel system for casual players
2020 on Astro with retire at 30. Keeps it cheap, quick and ensures participation as more players per game get a gig and no player dominates.
Sunday’s
Run the same again or simply leave teams to have friendlies
This will mean every player can pick what suits and if players still don’t choose to play then we/ECB has to accept that maybe they just don’t want to play
-
Yup. I have my personal preferences, other people have theirs, but ultimately its a democracy. Players tell their clubs what they want to play, and clubs tell the league, so the league provides what the players want.
Or you just provide all formats then no one has to play a format they don’t want to. It’s the only way to keep or get as many playing. Saturdays are getting shorter and starting to suit one type of player and excluding another. Sunday’s are dying but if only 2020 survives then you’ll still find less people playing as those who don’t want to will just stop..
Each player has their preferred format and might play another but there’s will come a point they won’t play or will just play less as it’s nkt worth the hassle
Expensive game for a 20 > 40 over slap if you’re not top order, bowling max or a star who gets to do both. Even worse day if you’re not a hitter or a bowler getting slapped about
-
The shorter the format, the less people participate as you always get 2-3 stars doing the batt/bowling/keeping so each team needs 2-3 make weights who are happy to do nothing. This type of person is getting rarer.
Just need to ensure all formats are catered for
Sat league system
Div 1-4 draw
Rest 45 win lose
Parallel system for casual players
2020 on Astro with retire at 30. Keeps it cheap, quick and ensures participation as more players per game get a gig and no player dominates.
Sunday’s
Run the same again or simply leave teams to have friendlies
This will mean every player can pick what suits and if players still don’t choose to play then we/ECB has to accept that maybe they just don’t want to play
Back then, we played retire at 25* and everyone bowl 2 overs, so literally everyone apart from the keeper gets a bowl, and pretty much everyone is guaranteed a bat. This is the ideal format for young players who are just trying out club cricket to see if they enjoy it. I started playing this for a men's team when I was 13.
A couple of seasons later I then played a bit of "normal rules" T20 at a slightly higher standard where I batted in the top 5 and scored a few 50s. I also played a few Sunday games.
This gave me the appetite to move up to open the batting for the 1st team at a decent standard on saturdays when I was 17. I opened for that team for about 5 years.
I still kept playing the other formats as well. Even when I was scoring tons on Saturdays, I still enjoyed playing retire-at-25 T20 cricket as it meant I could play with my dad and my mates and get a bowl as well. The retire at 25 rule meant I couldn't dominate the game, which made it better for everyone else.
This, to me, is the ideal way to introduce kids to longer format cricket. If you just take a kids straight out of the U15s and put them into a 40 over game, they're not going to enjoy it.
-
The shorter the format, the less people participate as you always get 2-3 stars doing the batt/bowling/keeping so each team needs 2-3 make weights who are happy to do nothing. This type of person is getting rarer.
Just need to ensure all formats are catered for
Sat league system
Div 1-4 draw
Rest 45 win lose
Parallel system for casual players
2020 on Astro with retire at 30. Keeps it cheap, quick and ensures participation as more players per game get a gig and no player dominates.
Sunday’s
Run the same again or simply leave teams to have friendlies
This will mean every player can pick what suits and if players still don’t choose to play then we/ECB has to accept that maybe they just don’t want to play
I can tell you what works for the club I run, but other clubs may be different:
2 Saturday teams, both playing 40 over cricket. One decent standard, one less so. Everyone in both teams likes 40 overs on Saturdays and there is zero appetite for anything longer or shorter.
2 T20 teams that each play once a week, the better team plays midweek, about half the games are retire at 25, half aren't. (We prefer to play this but sometimes our oppo refuse). The 2nd team play a mixture of midweek and Sunday lunchtimes, all games are retire at 25 and about half the team are teenagers.
The idea being that kids move from the junior section into the 2nd T20 team, then they might choose to start playing Saturdays, or they might just keep playing T20s indefinitely.
it works for us, we're one of the only clubs that is growing in our county.
-
i always thought an adult version of the pairs cricket that U13s played (8 a side - 4 overs per pair etc) would have been a good thing on a sunday - the old start on 200 you lose 5 runs for being out - that was great fun - even as the youngest in the team ('just don't get out lad' - were the words of my coach! and then as an older player later on with the responsibility of trying to get a lot of runs - ah happy days!!!
and everyone batted and everyone bowled - i always felt like i'd done something good for the team and wasn't a 'spare' part - i think nearly all the kids did too that i played with and against felt they had done something worthwhile for the majority of the games
-
always thought (in my area - i don't know about other areas) that the fact that junior cricket stops when schools stop doesn't help as well as many kids stop playing for the entire summer holiday, unless they are in senior teams and often that means that as has been said they only play longer saturday cricket where they can sometimes be just used as a fielder - we had a 16 yr old make his first team debut this year and only field as their have been issues with second team players moving up and not doing anything at my club for 15 yrs so this lad had to fill in - his mum, dad and grandma came to watch him make his debut - just to see him field - in a game where our 1s won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare, there was plenty of chances to let him even have 1 or 2 overs - and mentally the oppo had a left arm spinner who was younger bowl 10 overs!!!
-
always thought (in my area - i don't know about other areas) that the fact that junior cricket stops when schools stop doesn't help as well as many kids stop playing for the entire summer holiday, unless they are in senior teams and often that means that as has been said they only play longer saturday cricket where they can sometimes be just used as a fielder - we had a 16 yr old make his first team debut this year and only field as their have been issues with second team players moving up and not doing anything at my club for 15 yrs so this lad had to fill in - his mum, dad and grandma came to watch him make his debut - just to see him field - in a game where our 1s won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare, there was plenty of chances to let him even have 1 or 2 overs - and mentally the oppo had a left arm spinner who was younger bowl 10 overs!!!
Yeah, this is something that clubs rapidly need to improve on. Its very difficult to hold onto young players anyway, and things like this really don't help.
I'm relaxed about organised junior leagues finishing when school finishes. I once tried to run junior fixtures through the summer holidays and had to cancel virtually every single one as at any given time at least half the team seemed to be away on holiday. Its better to use this time to try and integrate the older juniors into an appropriate level of adult cricket, which unequivocally isn't going to be a 40-over league game.
-
There is definitely a participation gap in 50/50 cricket. If you are a batsman and get out cheap, you can feel like you are just making up the numbers, sitting out on the boundary the whole game.
I played indoor cricket a few times over this winter and it is good for participation. People I played with kept knocking it, but I thought it was clever the way you got your 25 runs and then you had to retire till the end when you could come in again. Made if feel like everyone was going to get a go, which they did.
Back in the day, Australia had Kanga Cricket which was a similar format to some that have been described here, where everyone had to face a certain number of overs, and I remember it brought a lot of kids into the game that wouldn't have felt confident. Something like this should definitely be looked at in schools.
-
There is definitely a participation gap in 50/50 cricket. If you are a batsman and get out cheap, you can feel like you are just making up the numbers, sitting out on the boundary the whole game.
I played indoor cricket a few times over this winter and it is good for participation. People I played with kept knocking it, but I thought it was clever the way you got your 25 runs and then you had to retire till the end when you could come in again. Made if feel like everyone was going to get a go, which they did.
Back in the day, Australia had Kanga Cricket which was a similar format to some that have been described here, where everyone had to face a certain number of overs, and I remember it brought a lot of kids into the game that wouldn't have felt confident. Something like this should definitely be looked at in schools.
We played a few seasons of indoor cricket, but its a flawed game tbh. The game is so much about smashing the ball back straight past the bowler, anything pitched up or outside off goes, but if you've got 4 quickish bowlers who just stick it in at the ribs, you will never lose a game.
Plus, all that weird straight slogging messes with your batting technique, and fielding is broken finger central.
I'd rather just have a few months away from cricket altogether to allow my bowling shoulder to recuperate.
-
40/45/50-over games are fun if you're the one bowling a 10 over spell and/or scoring a ton.
I would imagine so.
-
Could it not be argued that there is too much choice in terms of formats?
-
SLA system sounds pretty encouraging to new players. Coming back to the game, I would welcome the democratic 25 runs rule.
-
I think it could have a role in pre season friendlies, so everyone gets a go. But otherwise it's just too far from the 'real' game to be satisfying (I'm also a returning player who had to put up with a couple of ducks and low scores last season).
-
Indoor cricket is good if you bat top 3, any less and you’re generally sacrificing yourself more often than not for quick runs and to get a retired player back.
Bowling is only fun with a new ball (swings a mile) or if you’re rapid and can hit the ribs ball after ball (and quick enough not to get slap batted). Anything less and you’re cannon fodder and it’s no fun
Participation is hard, the only way is to retire people from the game and not come back in, and/or have a max number of balls to face. That way, you can ensure 6 people bat each and every game.
Indoor tactics also depend on what you play and what facility you use. Here it’s all about running 3’s, if you just look for 4/6’s you’ll lose as many as you win. Other areas (Taunton/Bristol ) it’s the reverse where the back wall is king. Either way, someone rapid bowling short is impossible to score more than 1 a ball off, anyone less than rapid is cannon fodder
-
Could it not be argued that there is too much choice in terms of formats?
Maybe.. like everyone’s opinion it’s entirely possible. However, if you have 10 people, 2 want draw, 2 5050, 2 45/45, 2 4040 and 2 2020.. how many of the 10 will you lose by just offering say 4040 and 2020.. you’ll not attract anyone new (as 2020 is played already so there isn’t some mountain of participants just waiting) so the game shrinks.
Naturally I could be wrong but there seem to be enough players around who want different things to be able to offer all the formats and then just let players pick what suits. After 4/5 seasons we will know if there is a formst that’s dead as it will collapse
-
Maybe.. like everyone’s opinion it’s entirely possible. However, if you have 10 people, 2 want draw, 2 5050, 2 45/45, 2 4040 and 2 2020.. how many of the 10 will you lose by just offering say 4040 and 2020.. you’ll not attract anyone new (as 2020 is played already so there isn’t some mountain of participants just waiting) so the game shrinks.
Naturally I could be wrong but there seem to be enough players around who want different things to be able to offer all the formats and then just let players pick what suits. After 4/5 seasons we will know if there is a formst that’s dead as it will collapse
The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.
-
The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.
No format on Sunday seems popular. Timed games apparently boring.. draw boring, 5050 to much, 4040 to much (leagues dying too), 3030 puts off the 2020 casual and those who want longer games don’t want it so won’t play.. 2020 leagues or cups are being created by few teams actually bother (judt the big few) as most clubs don’t have that many wanting it
It is hard to know what to do tbf
-
The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.
One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.
-
One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.
Not necessarily. It massively depends upon the club and league that is on offer. There is nothing worse for a Sunday player and colts to turn up to a Sunday league game and just get smashed for 300 or rolled for 50. That is just asking for lower participation.
It's the reason our Sunday side only play organised friendlies throughout the season. We play against sides we know are the right level, also both sides know the game can be used to develop their colts as well.
-
Not necessarily. It massively depends upon the club and league that is on offer. There is nothing worse for a Sunday player and colts to turn up to a Sunday league game and just get smashed for 300 or rolled for 50. That is just asking for lower participation.
It's the reason our Sunday side only play organised friendlies throughout the season. We play against sides we know are the right level, also both sides know the game can be used to develop their colts as well.
There's nothing worse than turning up to a Sunday fixture thinking you're going to be playing a very friendly game where both sides have plenty of kids, only to find that your oppo have basically brought their entire league side who all want to smack 50s and bowl bouncers at 15 year olds. Total waste of time for everyone involved.
Quite often you even make this clear to the oppo when you organise the fixture... "very friendly, no league players, lots of kids", etc "yeah we'll do the same" they lie through their teeth.
I honestly sometimes think you'd have a more enjoyable cricket season if you just played the same 10 teams - teams you know well, who are about the right standard - you like the players, trust them do play in the right spirit - 4 times each.
-
One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.
There are Sunday competitive leagues.. they are dying out. Nothing less enjoyable than being slapped for 250+ on a Sunday when you’re giving kids or lesser players a game and the oppo want 50’s or worse.. 100’s .. only then to happily try and roll you for nothing as they’ve had their bat etc
That’s one of the things with 2020 Sunday, it’s not going to make anything more competitive as that’s why a lot of teams don’t join a league. Quite a few teams join a league purely for fixtures so even if they are in a league, you can assume they are not just using it as a friendly
Even on Saturdays people seem to forget that not everyone is taking it seriously or being overly competitive. Some people lierally just want an enjoyable game of cricket. Winning is a side effect but not the motivation. Competitive games aren’t automatically the enjoyable ones to play in.. it depends what your motivation for playing is
-
There's nothing worse than turning up to a Sunday fixture thinking you're going to be playing a very friendly game where both sides have plenty of kids, only to find that your oppo have basically brought their entire league side who all want to smack 50s and bowl bouncers at 15 year olds. Total waste of time for everyone involved.
Quite often you even make this clear to the oppo when you organise the fixture... "very friendly, no league players, lots of kids", etc "yeah we'll do the same" they lie through their teeth.
I honestly sometimes think you'd have a more enjoyable cricket season if you just played the same 10 teams - teams you know well, who are about the right standard - you like the players, trust them do play in the right spirit - 4 times each.
You are describing traditional Sunday cricket, where they were played as friendly matches with teams you knew. Maybe you, definatley me and I'm sure other older members on here grew up playing these games, often the adults picked us up and took us home, had a beer with the opposition and it was an opportunity to play as we were often shoved up the order or given a bowl so we could get used to simply playing. I remember well these matches before I played league cricket, they were very social, tea between innings, 20 overs at 6.30 and batting out for a draw was a major achievement.
cricket has changed and that type of game perhaps is gone, Atherton is right in that now different formats appeal to different types of player. As has been mentioned thou how small clubs manage to keep everyone happy I do not know. Midweek 2020 at our club has become very popular as Sunday cricket has died completely.
The move to competitive cricket on Sunday's to me still leaves one big question which I have no answer for, and I'm not sure there is an answer....
Regarding small clubs specifically because I believe this is the real grass roots cricket, how do young players develop enough skills to improve and play a higher standard?
A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...
-
A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...
This is what is already happening ..
Richmond 11ths vs antsy 8ths (two random clubs) is well on its way
-
I think it would be fair to say that some of the smaller clubs are suffering because junior players go to the bigger clubs who offer better coaching, better facilities and market themselves more effectively. The majority of clubs in this county who hsbrbsrruggled are the ones who haven't been able to keep a junior section going so don't have players coming through to replace those leaving the game.
I must say though that at my club we haven't found it difficult to bring junior players into Saturday league cricket. Our Saturday 3rd XI runs for this purpose and has definitely prepared then better for the step up to 2nd and 1st XI cricket
-
This is what is already happening ..
Richmond 11ths vs antsy 8ths (two random clubs) is well on its way
Around here the big clubs are struggling and losing teams as fast as anyone else.
-
I think people have preferences but in reality id play cricket no matter the format as would most.
I sometimes think theres far too much league cricket. My rugby club dont stick second and third teams in a league structure, they play ‘friendlies’. Too be honest, it works well. Also allows you to be selective with fixtures. I think cricketers put off by promotion/regelation and ‘hard’ cricket at the really low standards where it really is suppose to be fun. Taking a division 12 game against 40+ year olds and kids seriously is a little silly, at least to me.
I think that sometimes the ‘drop off in teenagers’ is misleading. Few clubs local to me have 100 kids in some age groups. Most of them not really getting a game, is it a suprise they dont stick it out to senior cricket when they are just used as a cash cow?
-
One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.
"Sly competitive" cricket, as it's sometimes known in my house.
-
And, "Yes mate, it does matter at this level."
-
You are describing traditional Sunday cricket, where they were played as friendly matches with teams you knew. Maybe you, definatley me and I'm sure other older members on here grew up playing these games, often the adults picked us up and took us home, had a beer with the opposition and it was an opportunity to play as we were often shoved up the order or given a bowl so we could get used to simply playing. I remember well these matches before I played league cricket, they were very social, tea between innings, 20 overs at 6.30 and batting out for a draw was a major achievement.
cricket has changed and that type of game perhaps is gone, Atherton is right in that now different formats appeal to different types of player. As has been mentioned thou how small clubs manage to keep everyone happy I do not know. Midweek 2020 at our club has become very popular as Sunday cricket has died completely.
The move to competitive cricket on Sunday's to me still leaves one big question which I have no answer for, and I'm not sure there is an answer....
Regarding small clubs specifically because I believe this is the real grass roots cricket, how do young players develop enough skills to improve and play a higher standard?
A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...
One of the problems we find in lower level league cricket, is opposition that are only interested in winning and getting league points rather than simply playing cricket.
So they either turn up with a strong team and play in a po faced over competitive manner, or if they're missing their best players, they simply refuse to play rather than risk losing.
This to me is an appalling attitude.
At least with opposition you can select, you can generally negotiate with them in good faith about keeping the teams even and lending players if necessary, so at least a game gets played.
-
One of the problems we find in lower level league cricket, is opposition that are only interested in winning and getting league points rather than simply playing cricket.
So they either turn up with a strong team and play in a po faced over competitive manner, or if they're missing their best players, they simply refuse to play rather than risk losing.
This to me is an appalling attitude.
At least with opposition you can select, you can generally negotiate with them in good faith about keeping the teams even and lending players if necessary, so at least a game gets played.
But I also agree with this! Confused.
-
my club only play sunday friendlies, and to make sure everyone got a game we looked at changing our usual 35 over format. We trialled it with another local club. The feedback was very positive, and it turned out the two matches we played were highly competitive.
-we split 36 overs into two innings of 18 each.
-the team order had to be declared, because the batting order had to be reversed in the 2nd innings
-batsmen retired at 25, but were able to come back in if need be
-everyone bar the keeper had to bowl, maximum of 2 overs each
-the leading team started the second innings to set the target
they have been the most enjoyable games ive played for ages. Most importantly, everyone contributed and had a part to play.
However, most clubs we play in mid Wiltshire dont want to play this format., no doubt for various reasons.
-
my club only play sunday friendlies, and to make sure everyone got a game we looked at changing our usual 35 over format. We trialled it with another local club. The feedback was very positive, and it turned out the two matches we played were highly competitive.
-we split 36 overs into two innings of 18 each.
-the team order had to be declared, because the batting order had to be reversed in the 2nd innings
-batsmen retired at 25, but were able to come back in if need be
-everyone bar the keeper had to bowl, maximum of 2 overs each
-the leading team started the second innings to set the target
they have been the most enjoyable games ive played for ages. Most importantly, everyone contributed and had a part to play.
However, most clubs we play in mid Wiltshire dont want to play this format., no doubt for various reasons.
If you’re into 2020 style games then this is a good way to ensure that at least everyone gets a game. This isn’t going to teach anyone to do much other than hit though as it’s all about wacking runs quickly.
There is no answer as we have x number of people and each one wants something from a game. I still say a league structure needs all the various formats to ensure you get the mix of styles and all round teams. If you jut play 2020 you will lose some skills, if you only play draw.. you will lose some hitting skills as you can’t have 7 hitters in a side and hope to win .
Etc etc
-
We have a pre season friendly next Sunday. We will have a weak side so I’ve contacted the oppo to give them a heads up. All I get back is ‘we have first teasers and they will want the runs so expect to get smashed’
I’m not entirely sure what they will gain from it but as people have said below.. common sense seems to be severely lacking in the modern game. People just want to slap it about and slaughter oppos
-
We have a pre season friendly next Sunday. We will have a weak side so I’ve contacted the oppo to give them a heads up. All I get back is ‘we have first teasers and they will want the runs so expect to get smashed’
I’m not entirely sure what they will gain from it but as people have said below.. common sense seems to be severely lacking in the modern game. People just want to slap it about and slaughter oppos
Organise a different opposition instead, but don't cancel until Sunday morning. Explain you're cancelling because none of your players wanted to play them.
-
We have a number of opponents who are like that. They field county 2nds, overseas, and club 1st team players. My club is just a bunch of middle-aged tryers who play for the pleasure. Some have been put off by it sadly. But as a club we try and stress the fun, cameraderie, and tradition of the game.
As of most things, its each to their own.
-
We have a pre season friendly next Sunday. We will have a weak side so I’ve contacted the oppo to give them a heads up. All I get back is ‘we have first teasers and they will want the runs so expect to get smashed’
I’m not entirely sure what they will gain from it but as people have said below.. common sense seems to be severely lacking in the modern game. People just want to slap it about and slaughter oppos
With there attitude think about what your team will get from the match and cancel.
-
We have a pre season friendly next Sunday. We will have a weak side so I’ve contacted the oppo to give them a heads up. All I get back is ‘we have first teasers and they will want the runs so expect to get smashed’
I’m not entirely sure what they will gain from it but as people have said below.. common sense seems to be severely lacking in the modern game. People just want to slap it about and slaughter oppos
Should we create a stronger forum team and teach them a lesson.
-
Should we create a stronger forum team and teach them a lesson.
As the West Country CBF members know all too well is that you quickly realise that you have no bowling.
-
With there attitude think about what your team will get from the match and cancel.
Nah, just let them bat and protect the bowlers by some batsmen bowling pies. Then ju tbat 40 overs and don’t bother chasing. Bowlers will get some overs, batters will face balls so the pre seaosn aim is at least achieved
It happens a lot Sunday’s so you just have to almost ignore teams and if they hit, Just take off the bowlers otherwise they get depressed
-
If you made it clear that it was going to be a friendly with a basic standard, and the oppo doesn't respect that, turn out a team to smash you round the park, I think a solution may be to:
-bowl your worst bowlers ie. wicket keeper, anyone who fancies a laugh.
-this will mean wides, double bounce balls, balls that hardly carry.
-very frustrating and no fun for the batsman.
lesson learnt, hopefully.
-
Maybe its the fixture that needs looking at not the attitude of the opposition?
Sounds like they want a competitive warm up match for the season ahead whereas your team is content for everyone to get a game in a more friendly atmosphere.
I can understand both clubs point of view but in reality a huge mismatch is unlikely to benefit either party much atall