Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: TheFlipper on March 05, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
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Just wanted to gather everyones opinion can netting too much have a negative impact?
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Only if you're reinforcing bad habits.
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Only if you're reinforcing bad habits.
Define bad habits though.
You could argue that Steve Smith is nothing but bad habits, but he became the worlds best batsman by practicing them in the nets for hours upon hours!
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If the nets pitch is like say cemented with mat on top, then i would say it does get you bad habits as the ball comes off nicely onto the bat with very predictable bounce while actual turf pitch will be very different in terms of pace and bounce, unpredictability etc. This happened in my case and I was always early into my shots in actual game...So lot of adjustment was needed from nets to middle.
If we can get similar pitch in nets as in game, then it's perfect
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If you are bored with it, then you are doing it wrong.
I don't enjoy nets that much, I prefer throwdowns and bowling machine sessions. Except when my son is feeding the balls...
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Define bad habits though.
You could argue that Steve Smith is nothing but bad habits, but he became the worlds best batsman by practicing them in the nets for hours upon hours!
I dont think we can say Steve smith is bad habits, his technique is unconventional but he does basics like playing late/ close to body,watching the ball etc wonderfully..so bad habits means throwing hands, playing far away from body, not showing discipline towards building innings those kind of things..
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If a club coach saw someone walking across their stumps and working balls off their stumps through the leg side they'd have a fit!
Then again, no club player is likely to have anywhere near the same level of Hand-Eye coordination Smith has. I think this is a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Steve Smith can bat like Steve Smith, it's probably best we don't start coaching youngsters to copy him though! :D
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If a club coach saw someone walking across their stumps and working balls off their stumps through the leg side they'd have a fit!
That would surely be a bad coach. A good coach would marvel if after doing that, the ball is still hit with perfect timing and despite doing that, rarely gets out, and recognize it is a special talent..
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No danger of OD'ing on cricket... or is there?... :o
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I personally would say there could be a problem if you spent a whole winter circa 2/3 sessions a week just hitting half volleys on indoor nets that have true bounce and etc but if your working different parts of your game and getting varied feeds, machine, side arm, actual bowling then no not particularly I don’t think you can net to much.
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Define bad habits though.
You could argue that Steve Smith is nothing but bad habits, but he became the worlds best batsman by practicing them in the nets for hours upon hours!
Bad habits mean not practicing a game plan. Steve smith is the exact opposite of bad habits - he formulated his game plan and then went about practicing it so he could execute it over and over again.
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If a club coach saw someone walking across their stumps and working balls off their stumps through the leg side they'd have a fit!
Then again, no club player is likely to have anywhere near the same level of Hand-Eye coordination Smith has. I think this is a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Steve Smith can bat like Steve Smith, it's probably best we don't start coaching youngsters to copy him though! :D
He is still on release, plays the ball late and has a version of gary Palmer open stance to access the straight balls. No self respecting coach will have issues with that.
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Define bad habits though.
You could argue that Steve Smith is nothing but bad habits, but he became the worlds best batsman by practicing them in the nets for hours upon hours!
For a club player, one example might be backing away to leg to anything straight. I did that for years and would do it in nets all the time, took me a long time on a bowling machine and getting hit quite a few times to stop it.
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Depends how you are netting.
Net with a purpose, each session should have a goal and try and set a field and work out which stage of the innings you are batting in.
Throw downs are also very good and tend to be far more accurate than wayward net bowlers.
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I bloody hate net bowling lol tho good Boeing is fine
Bowling machine and throw downs much better - like @JTtaylor145 says net with a purpose or goal - a field etc then that’s always better.
One thing me and a buddy did last sat was have the self feeder on the bowling and we tried to replicate a match with running between the wickets and having the machine on the longest interval. That was good
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It depends what your goal is. If your sole goal is to wow your team mates with how great you look in indoor nets, then do as many indoor nets as you can.
If, on the other hand, you want to be effective in an actual cricket match on a grass wicket, then practice as much in those conditions as possible, and strictly limit both the time spent in artificial conditions (plastic pitches, bowling machines etc), and the range of outcomes you try to achieve.
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Guarantee you pretty much no clubbie nets as much as the pros do. If nets is helping your batting then there's no way you can do it too much. If you bat like a tit in nets then you're probably better off not bothering.
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That would surely be a bad coach. A good coach would marvel if after doing that, the ball is still hit with perfect timing and despite doing that, rarely gets out, and recognize it is a special talent..
And therein lies the issue with cricket!
A lot of "coaches" go on their course, get a nice textbook and are taught how to teach out of it.
We need more coaches who work with what the player is naturally good at and develop it from there, not a load of people who want everyone to bat out of the ECB coaching manual
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Guarantee you pretty much no clubbie nets as much as the pros do. If nets is helping your batting then there's no way you can do it too much. If you bat like a tit in nets then you're probably better off not bothering.
Most pros have access to grass nets, and will also spend hours and hours and hours of time out in the middle. Their annual ratio of time spent on plastic to time spent on grass pitches will be no more than 10-20%.
Its not the act of netting that is the problem, it is the ratio of time you spend on different surfaces. A lot of amateur players spend more time in plastic-surfaced nets than they do in the middle - is it really a surprise that their technique and instincts become more attuned to this time of surface?
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And therein lies the issue with cricket!
A lot of "coaches" go on their course, get a nice textbook and are taught how to teach out of it.
We need more coaches who work with what the player is naturally good at and develop it from there, not a load of people who want everyone to bat out of the ECB coaching manual
There are a lot of bad coaches around, that's for sure.
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Guarantee you pretty much no clubbie nets as much as the pros do. If nets is helping your batting then there's no way you can do it too much. If you bat like a tit in nets then you're probably better off not bothering.
This was one thing I took away from watching a few interviews with Steve Smith and Marnus Labuschagne, the emphasis they put on hitting a lot of balls with a targeted goal. Similar to what Gary Palmer encourages, hit a lot of balls to build muscle memory.
How often does "batting practice" at club level extend beyond 15 minutes in the nets against variable standards of bowling?
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How can one get maximum benefit out of a bowling machine net? Ask the feeder to just feed you with random deliveries with different pace/length/swing or be more systematic about it and get balls bowled at a particular length/pace and practice the same shot multiple times?
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I've always found that the best use of the bowling machine is to work on a specific area where I'm weak or out of form. Best to also do this with a coach or experienced teammate who can give you advice on why you're getting it wrong/right each time.
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To answer the question, I would say no. Hitting more balls with good habits or bad habits will improve your game, it's hand-eye co-ordination after all.
I agree with a lot on this thread though of training with a purpose etc, facilties you use etc, I'm hoping we can net outside before stepping onto a wet green one in the first game.
And most importantly - if you are going to get a coach, find somebody that works for YOU.
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How often does "batting practice" at club level extend beyond 15 minutes in the nets against variable standards of bowling?
I'm a pretty strong believer that you get out what you put in with club nets - go in and have a hoon on the up, top edge a few and console yourself that it's only indoor nets and you'll likely only get worse. I'd like to see a tape of the dismissals of your average 'I hate nets, the bowling is crap' type - bet you there's not a lot of beautiful deliveries knocking off peg back and quite a lot of long hops chipped to cover!
On the other hand, go in with a proper mindset and nets will improve your batting.
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Most pros have access to grass nets, and will also spend hours and hours and hours of time out in the middle. Their annual ratio of time spent on plastic to time spent on grass pitches will be no more than 10-20%.
Its not the act of netting that is the problem, it is the ratio of time you spend on different surfaces. A lot of amateur players spend more time in plastic-surfaced nets than they do in the middle - is it really a surprise that their technique and instincts become more attuned to this time of surface?
Not always, they are all different. I had the fortune of working with Chanderpaul a couple of years ago. He would net for 1hr (c. 150 balls) a day before warmups. Bowling machine, indoor net were always his preferred method. Hated dog sticks, only certain people could throw to him. Bowling machine would vary over/ round, in/ outswingers but all at 95mph hitting the top of off.
Hitting balls regularly is going to probably do more good than not, even if not perfect practice.
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This all depends on many factors
Quality of trianing
Drills vs ‘having a hit’
Grass or indoor
Match training or the coaches favourite ‘scenario training’
Most amateur players will improve with training (assuming it’s not just a 30 min wack). However, only to a point.
Then you need to focus on grass training and doing quality sessions on grass vs good bowling .
I spend hours netting for enjoyment as much as anything but I’m seeing little gains now really as it’s artificial surface. Plus, I don’t face much 80-83mph stuff at all, ever but that’s what I train on as it’s fun so that’s another thing that doesn’t actually help. People over rate how fast a bowlers
They face week on week out
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When myself and @Maverick79 net, we’ll normally put the machine on slow and loopy as that gives you more practice than half volleys at a nice pace. Our AstroTurf wicket is very up and down. When I’m feeling particularly out of touch we’ll normally hit 80-100 balls in the slow setting to help
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Not always, they are all different. I had the fortune of working with Chanderpaul a couple of years ago. He would net for 1hr (c. 150 balls) a day before warmups. Bowling machine, indoor net were always his preferred method. Hated dog sticks, only certain people could throw to him. Bowling machine would vary over/ round, in/ outswingers but all at 95mph hitting the top of off.
Hitting balls regularly is going to probably do more good than not, even if not perfect practice.
We are discussing nets for clubbies here! Your name dropping of "Chanderpaul" is noted. Setting a machine at "95mph" may work for Chanderpaul but will not benefits clubbies.
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For a clubbie, here are things that help me:
1. Practicing on a surface that closely simulates the game-day pitch.
2. Have a practice plan and stick to it. If you have 1 hour a week to practice, you want to make the most of it.
3. Drill (or "groove") basics. Eye-level. Head position. Shot alignment. Foot movement. Etc. Take your pick but have a list to go through.
4. During your practice session, avoid bad bowling and bowlers like Covid-19! If you have no choice, practice leaving or defending against bad bowlers. Many a good batsmen lose their wicket to some very poor bowling during a game than good bowling.
5. Bowling machines are great! But work with someone who knows how to practice against a bowling machine. 60/65 mph is good enough to build muscle memory.
7. Don't practice on tired/fatigued muscles. This is how I picked up all sorts of bad habits. Take frequent breaks and make sure your body is nice and loose when batting.
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We are discussing nets for clubbies here! Your name dropping of "Chanderpaul" is noted. Setting a machine at "95mph" may work for Chanderpaul but will not benefits clubbies.
Be a good laugh seeing our openers trying to play 95mph outside off stump though :D
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We are discussing nets for clubbies here! Your name dropping of "Chanderpaul" is noted. Setting a machine at "95mph" may work for Chanderpaul but will not benefits clubbies.
Have you never done that?
"I'm going to put it on 95. See if you can hit it!"
Added comedy value if you turn it down to about 30 instead of maxing it out :D ;)
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I've never seen the problem with facing bad bowling in the nets. You have to face bad bowling in the game, so why not practice against it? No point grooving yourself against 80mph back of a length stuff from the bowling machine if all you face in games is 50mph loopers than hold up in the breeze.
It amazes me how many batsmen are competent against good bowling, but as soon as someone slow or erratic comes along, they lose their gameplan and take a huge slog or chip one straight to cover. Do you ever practice against bad bowlers? you ask. "No", they reply.
There's actually quite a skill to being able to efficiently put away bad bowling without going berserk or taking on too much risk.
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True, not trying to overhit loopy rubbish is a skill in and of itself. We have an older bloke who only bowls very occasionally but he's got some great batsmen out by bowling grenades at the stumps.
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Does make you wonder how the pro's who come and play club cricket on a saturday when they dont have a game manage to whack my 45mph induckers. Can't imagine they practice that in the week :D
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^ :D :D :D
They probably have good basics. :D
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2-3 hrs practice a week will help.
Batting against loopy bowling is indeed a skill.
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We are discussing nets for clubbies here! Your name dropping of "Chanderpaul" is noted. Setting a machine at "95mph" may work for Chanderpaul but will not benefits clubbies.
Name dropping/ revealing source to give weight. However you want to take it. And surely they are pros for a reason might be worthwhile taking some hints from them.
And I never said clubbies should set to 95 and 5 bias swing. But set it to a challenging pace (whatever that may be).
The idea is he would not face anything that challenging out in the middle so it would all be easy.
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Name dropping/ revealing source to give weight. However you want to take it. And surely they are pros for a reason might be worthwhile taking some hints from them.
And I never said clubbies should set to 95 and 5 bias swing. But set it to a challenging pace (whatever that may be).
The idea is he would not face anything that challenging out in the middle so it would all be easy.
Train hard play easy
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For me you can over net with a bowling machine if you over groove 1 shot and it becomes your default so you get stuck like Shane Watson did on that front all those years back
People too often I see just crank speed up on half volleys to say they have faced that pace
Betting should be representative of what you face in middle, if you face good line length bowlers at good pace practice that. If you face medium bowlers who bowl a long hop then a worldie you need to practice reacting to that