Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: Jamieh on March 02, 2010, 05:40:11 PM
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Hi Guys,
Was in Newbery's shop in Hove the other day and was listening to one of the old boys (a brilliant salesman!) in the shop selling a bat to a couple of guys, and one of the guys picks up a bat which must have had a few small butterfly stains (I assume that's what they were, but didn't see the actual bat he was talking about) and he said he didn't want it becuase of them.
So the old boy at newbery said "bats are like fruit, it's like how golden delicious apples with the small brown spots are the juiciest ones. Bats are the same, the ones with little marks in the grains are belters" or words to that affect.
So... was this just a brilliant sales line or is there truth to it? Are bats with little spots or butterfly stains in the grain gonna be belters? I guess these little stains may be harder and possibly produce more rebound, but not sure, so thought I'd ask! My gut feeling is yes, but depends on if you prefer a pretty bat to a functional bat? Guess this is aimed at the norbs, talisman, matts of the forum, but any thoughts welcome!
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From experience I'd say truth, the bat I have finished had a huge butterfly stain right in the middle and boy does that ping better than anything I've used before.
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Don't ask Norb because despite all the money he spent buying the title of greatest living bat maker he does not know what a Butterfly stain is!!!
A Butterfly stain will make the area harder without increasing the weight so they are sought after if the stain is in the toe or shoulder of the bat. As for rebound, I've found no improvement in them. The only bat maker I know that really does produce a bat with them in is Warsop and they would be the best people to speak to. Sales talk is not to be totally trusted, not to say that a clean face plays better than a clean or vice versa but if you have a product you need to sell that is exactly what you will do. Newbery have the "Ugly Bin" which will contain many stained bats.
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My warsop has a little brown line (it look like a tiny crack but isn't) on each grain. The bat goes like concord :D
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2 of the best bats I ever owned had butterfly stains. But also one which didn't have great rebound. So not sure if its universally true, but generally I do like bats with a stain ... preferably in the top half
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ahem [clears throat] I believe a butterfly stain is when the direction and slow down of growth occurs as the roots move into stoney areas! Which checks the flow of sap which then, interacting with the resultant acidity, creates and causes a stainy colouring. The resulting stain gives a delicate marking akin to the subtle colours of a King George Butterfly :D
Personal opinion is that I like them!
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Ahh, but Noblett - what do they sound like?
(Been up the post office yet?)
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Whats the difference between stains and graping then?
With regards to Norb's kettle drum analogy, i think we need to expand the range of musical instruments - perhaps an introduction of a xylophone style set-up - imagine a nomal xylophone with bats instead of small wooden blocks, with the top end note being the belter and the low end being kashmir dud.......i think i'm on to something here!!!!
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You sure are, it's called a Xylophone......
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Back to the drawing board...... :(
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Ahh, but Noblett - what do they sound like?
(Been up the post office yet?)
Nope mate if I get a spare minute at the moment I call Talisman and harass him... Putting a reminder in for tomorrow if I get five.
Whats the difference between stains and graping then?
With regards to Norb's kettle drum analogy, i think we need to expand the range of musical instruments - perhaps an introduction of a xylophone style set-up - imagine a nomal xylophone with bats instead of small wooden blocks, with the top end note being the belter and the low end being kashmir dud.......i think i'm on to something here!!!!
hmmmm not sure but Stylophone might work!!!!
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Can you tell what it is yet!!!
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Thanks for the comments guys, to change the it slightly then... without stating the obvious, what would you try to avoid if you saw in a bit of willow?
Think I must have missed the kettle drum analogy, but the bat xylophone sounds awesome!
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Over pressing.
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The graping or a butterflystain on a bat, is up to personal preference, personally I like them for two reasons, firstly because they can improve performance (but not always) and secondly because frequently you can get a bargain of a bat that has one in because it has been down graded.
But as the guys say, it is personal preference, always check it out with a mallet first.
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Kettle Drum was sooooooooo 2009. 2010 is all about the xylophone man!
I would avoid - (when being ultra fussy)
1. Anything less than 6 grains ( because I'm a grain tart!)
2. Big stains in the middle of the bat (regardless of the supposed benefits/drawbacks etc)
3. Too much speck in the grains ( makes me think it has grown poorly or in the wrong soil etc)
4. Evidence of knots (again, poorly maintained tree's)
I've got a bat i'm making at the moment that has a blue stain (iron from the soil) - I like to see this, but im sure others will dislike it.
What would you avoid when looking at willow?
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I'm quite easy to please really...
I have in the past always looked for the straightest grains I can find, and no more than 8 or 9 grains. I've never gone for more than that as I tend to go at the ball quite hard, and make a lot more use of my inside edge than I probably should, and therefore I've always wanted a bat that will last. In my head I've always thought of more grains equalling a shorter life expectency (possibly better to burn out than fade away though??) but increased short term performance. Having said that I probably wanted a bat to last in the past as I couldn't afford to keep replacing them which is not so much of a concern now.
Guess to cut a long story short, it's so personal, no right answer, however I wonder if there are certains things that really make a bat stand out or things to avoid at all costs.
To be honest I've always avoided any stains in the past
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Ps - read the blog - good luck with the run.....i have a couple friends running (one in a massive costume, brave girl!)
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As long as it feels right and pings well, then i'm happy.
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Didn't pros use to look for butterfly stains on the face?
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its funny how we all look for different things i remember a bat i got had a great big dead not on the back but my god it was a gun and i have even used a kashmir willow bat that went like a rocket only to last 3 weeks and used a Laver that was only ok and a Laver that was a gun .
now i go for in this order
1.good rebound quality's
2.good pick up
3.grains 8-10
4.no blemishes at all on the strike area
if it ticks the 4 it becomes a part of my select 4 bats i carry at all times.
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I'm not really bothered by butterfly stains, adds a bit of character to the bat!
My bat has one that sits right where the middle is and performs very well. You generally get bargains with bats with butterfly stains just due to its looks.
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Guys anyone know what a butterfly stain might give you in terms of performance?
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I would've thought you would have.... ;)
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I would've thought you would have.... ;)
I have my opinion just opening the question up!
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I have no idea, from what I've heard it makes that area of wood stronger....
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I was under the same impressions as you Colesy!
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I think they frequently give you slightly less feel on as you hit the ball, but send the ball further.
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I heard a rumour that if you have a butterfly stain just below the stickers (so, towards the top of the bat) and another stain on the toe of the bat then the area between these two stains will often be more responsive and a little pingier - plus, having a stain/graping on the toe will harden the toe area........but this could all be wrong, just something i heard :D
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Stiffer and stronger so my personal opinion is I like them but not to everyones taste
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Stiffer, stronger but more susceptible to cracking andy?
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nope they seem fine....
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good- right, next bat i'm buying is going to have a whopping butterfly stain on it then :D
I hope to see some new bat designs at the next net - im talking radical bat desings here, scoops wont cut it any more :D
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good- right, next bat i'm buying is going to have a whopping butterfly stain on it then :D
I hope to see some new bat designs at the next net - im talking radical bat desings here, scoops wont cut it any more :D
If I get time I'll dream up another 20/20 bat
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Agree with Buzz. On the gun bat that has a stain near the middle (towards the top end of the sweetspot and a bit to towards the outside edge), I can't feel but it really flies. Have hit a few edged sixes that have really surprised me.
Harder and stronger on that count for sure.
Doesn't explain why another one with the stain is nothing special. But then, there are so many variables that its not really an apples to apples comparison.
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I know a lot of warsop bats often have butterfly stains under the label near the splice. So would explain the durability aspect...
Have there been any tests into whether butterfly stains perform better? Maybe this is something Ayrtek could look into ;)
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GJ - Do the folks at Warsop do this on purpose? My Warsop platinum has a stain exactly where you mentioned, maybe slightly lower than that. Haven't knocked it in yet but it is pinging quite well from that area.
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Not one to comment on whether they do it on purpose, but perhaps they realise it does stregthen the area around it, as the splice is an area along with the toe what is susceptable to breaking.
I know they do have a butterfly bat in their range which are the bats which specifically have the butterfly stains.