Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: marsbug on August 12, 2020, 09:31:18 PM
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Hi Everyone. Like a few other people recently, I’ve spent the last few months lurking on this forum, whilst getting to grips with making my first* bat as a hobby during the lockdown. I’m a bit wary of this bat being my first post, but I thought at least some people might be interested, so here goes…I hope it’s not too long.
Design backstory (skip if necessary): I wanted to make a bat that I couldn’t buy, and that tried something different (but within the rules). After stumbling upon a recent study (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00226-020-01169-2)that used genetic algorithms (artificial intelligence) to try to optimise the design of a cricket bat, I was hooked (no pun intended)! I’m not an engineer, but my understanding is that the design minimised the distance between the Centre of Percussion and vibration nodes, to increase the ball speed upon hitting. To my mind that would mean a smaller middle, but a hell of a sweet spot. It also leads to some interesting design ideas.
The design has been put into prototypes called ‘Algobat’, which to me look like they would be, how to put this, pretty terrible to actually use. So I wanted to see if I could replicate this design as much as possible, while improving the pick up and making it look not quite as ugly.
Making the Bat
So, step 1, a lovely butterfly part-made from Hell 4 Leather, which I loved straight away.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LHSNMzC/IMG-9422.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvP4rFbk)
Next, working it down to the basic outline shape using my limited tools and a very cheap workmate. I actually spent ages looking for second hand drawblades and the like on eBay, but still ended up using my old plane most of the time (and a LOT of sanding later on). You can just about see the original edge markings, which I ended up changing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9jQNkPG/IMG-9450.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzfcBxBB)
Because I was trying to follow quite a weird design, I made templates from the original study design to check how I was getting on. You can see that the toe and middle were not so bad, but above there was pretty difficult for me. Look at the shape I was trying to follow at 279 mm!
(https://i.postimg.cc/y6kTcXqQ/IMG-9520.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/grbRPh28)
After a lot of planing, sanding, and swearing, it’s starting to come along. This is probably the point at which I stopped following the design template, and started to see if I could lighten it up a bit, and make the pick up better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLN7ppv2/IMG-9525.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV0RWPSF)
After a lot more sanding (I discovered putting sanding cylinders in my drill, which is now my favourite pastime) the final shape. And seeing as this was going to be different, some nice rainbow twine I found online. If you look closely, you can also see where the really fine grade sandpaper took a few little thin strips of wood out, which annoyed me no end, and meant I had to think about stickers to hide them 😊
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzVBJwX9/IMG-9604.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgRvJDLY)
Really embracing the different design now, I found a Kookaburra translucent silicone grip and it feels amazing! Although after a month it looks like the rubber in the springs has discoloured it slightly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdfvCLyP/IMG-9605.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1WkpkWK)
Final side view before stickers. I’d already whacked it on a radiator while trying out a fantasy straight six, hence the dent on the edge.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0QrmTkcP/IMG-9613.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpsPZkgR)
And because I have a bit of a soft spot for branding and logo design, I thought I’d give it a go at coming up with my own. So here are a few different angles of it all finished. I thought it was ugly as anything at first, but it’s kind of grown on me. Perhaps it’s just a baby that a parent can love!
(https://i.postimg.cc/WpFMhNrx/IMG-9697.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9z24kjLB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5yCvGgbf/IMG-9692.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D4784qSN)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mpb0q9RT/IMG-9685.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dh3Z9m5P)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZC1BCmH/IMG-9689.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1JBd08C)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vm0W6D0w/IMG-9691.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DWbW9fVx)
So overall, here are some of the measurements:
Weight: 2 lbs 10.5 (before twine, grip and stickers)
Edge: 37 cm
Spine: 60 cm
Toe: 14-33 cm
Shoulders: 12 cm
Sweet spot (estimated): 8-23 cm from toe
Now, I haven’t played in years because of work and little ones and a million other rubbish excuses, so I just need to figure out how to try it out! I’ll let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
Pete
*Technically, this is my second home made bat. When I was about 14 I cheekily wrote to Millichamp and Hall, and said that I was going to make a bat for a school project. That, er, wasn’t’ strictly true, but the teacher let me use the workshop at lunchtimes, even though it wasn’t actually for a school assignment, just fun. Anyway, I got a very nice letter from either Julian Millichamp or Jonathan Hall (I have a terrible memory), saying they’d basically send me a part made for £50, which I had to give up my paper round savings for. I’d like to say that my design was a success, but I knew next to nothing about bat design, other than thinking that the more I took off the worse it was likely to be. So it ended up being something like 3 lbs, which is basically Thor’s Mjolnir to a weedy 14 year old. But it helped me practice in the nets, until 6 months later when it snapped in half.
[EDITED to make the photos bigger inline. Thanks for the help!]
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More posts like this one, is what the forum needs. Excellent stuff @marsbug
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Awesome first post and great to see someone pushing the design boundaries and thinking differently. Fantastic
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Wow! Great job! Those templates are a great idea for weight reduction. I have a few bats that could use some sanding. :)
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Great post. The bottom 1/3 of the bat is how I plan to have my next bat made. Great minds
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Absolutely fantastic!!
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Wow! Welcome and great first post. Excited to see how it plays!
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Looks great
Not sure if it will fit through the gauge with them specs though....
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Love the stickers. Good work mate.
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Awesome, welcome to the forum.
I really like what you have done with this.
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Do you have a link to a pdf of the paper?
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Amazing. Would like to know how this plays. Please Keep us posted.
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Great work, if you use the "Hotlink to forum" option for the pics it will upscale them as they are well worthy of being seen in full size to appreciate the work thats gone into it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZC1BCmH/IMG-9689.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1JBd08C)chase near me atm (https://banks-nearme.com/chase-near-me)
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GN has a model that was a little like this in shape around 10-15 years ago. Can remember what it was called though.
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A perfect batmaker Masterclass.....physics blew me off but a stunning outcome....please post on how it plays
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Thanks for the kind words and welcome. I must admit that I have been devouring this forum over the last few months - it has been a joy to see. And I have learnt so much from other people's posts, so thank you to everyone that has shared what they've done.
The original paper that came up with the somewhat strange design is here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00226-020-01169-2 (I did link to it in the original post, but haven't quite got to grips with the forum code). There is actually a second, more complicated shape that I would like to try out next, that is in that paper. It is certainly beyond my limited woodworking skills, and I suspect would be easiest to do a first pass with a CNC. I'm trying to teach myself CAD, but it is a steep learning curve. Out of interest, has anyone ever played around with bat shapes with foam and industrial plasticine (as used for designing cars I think)? I suspect not, as it won't be possible to check how it actually feels.
I'm going to have get a bat gauge now, just to see if it squeezes through!
And if anyone can remember the GN model that Kulli mentioned, then I'd be really interested to hear. Or any other shape that was similar.
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Anyone got access to the paper through work or something. €35 seems a bit steep
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Looks a bit like the illegitimate offspring of a GN Nemesis and an old school Woodworm. Very interesting.
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You might want to remeasure the specs, a 37cm edge would be nice to see though.
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Pictures are fixed and they look great!
How did you create those templates? Also, can you add pictures of the drill sanders you used?
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Whoops - it took me a while to spot the clues about edge size and gauges. I put down the wrong units for some of them (I did say I wasn’t an engineer!). Sorry, I think you all spotted it.
They should be:
Edge: 37 mm
Spine: 60 mm
Toe: 14-33 mm
Shoulders: 12 mm
Sweet spot (estimated): 8-23 cm from toe
I haven’t quite been able to get my head round those Algobats either. I don’t doubt that the algorithm is doing what it’s supposed to, but the parameter it’s aiming for isn’t necessarily going to mean that a bat is good or not. I think they do mention other studies and what they’ve looked at. I guess if there were 3D scans of good bats, then they could be analysed in the same way to see how they compare. Surely that’s been done?!
But back to this bat. I actually ended up taking less out above the swell than the templates suggest - in that photo they’re not actually reaching the face yet. In the original design the concaving would go below the edge level! Instead I left a lot more spine all the way to the handle than in the design in the paper. If not, it would have been too heavy, so I took more out near the toe, to raise the middle a bit (it’s still a little low for my liking) and improve pick up. The next bat I’d like to make a version of is the one in the diagram @DorsetDan posted, with the spine scoop above the swell. But with a higher middle probably.
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@InternalTraining Here are the things I used. Mostly the ones in the blue case, but they’re coarse so had to be careful. The discs were pretty good too, especially with the foam as it was more forgiving. The tiny cylinders are meant for Dremels and weren’t much use for this bat in the end. For the templates I drew the shapes to scale in Adobe Illustrator and printed them out, stuck them on cardboard and cut them out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsYjHwXz/ED880402-CC4-B-44-B7-8-D3-B-880-B055-D81-CA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJmrzSbx)
And other things used that I forgot to mention:
Stickers - Diginate. Really good service, stickers are nice, colours came out bright, and were much cheaper than the reverse printed ones. Not sure yet if they’ll smudge when hit. The stickers on this bat have metallic parts, which look great, but I also got a set with transparent background and the colours are a bit brighter I think. https://diginate.com/
Oil - Salix linseed wax. Really nice to use compared to the mess I used to leave with the oil. Just one coat.
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^Genius!!!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Mpb0q9RT/IMG-9685.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZC1BCmH/IMG-9689.jpg)
Great shape @marsbug. This is something I have been planning to get made someday, provided the bat maker agrees to do it; unfortunately I do not have the skills to do it myself.
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Actually, what I think it reminds me of is a laminate @jamferg had from @hit4six years ago. Was GN stickered but not a GN bat. All photos on the forum of it seem to have gone though.
Jamferg seems long gone but do you remember it Craig, or even better have some photos stashed away?
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Very good memory @Kulli - Having trawled through the darkest depths of an old Photobucket account, I have found them. This was the bat:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/maccers2007/P200310_1417.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/maccers2007/P200310_1419.jpg)
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Top man, knew I’d seen something similar a while back.
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Didn't Hunts make a bat almost identical to this and put honeycomb or something in the gaps?
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Modulus, wasn’t really that much like this in shape though.
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The "physics" if you can really call it that to make the "best" bat to hit a ball a long way in theory is to make it as stiff as possible, bring the first and second nodes of percussion as close together as possible, be as bottom heavy as possible and as a bonus, do this at the heaviest weight an individual can use. Basically increase the "swing weight" (horrible phrase) as much as possible and minimise losses as much as possible.
How do you locate/identify "first and second nodes of percussion"? What losses are minimized when you increase the "swing weight"?
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Ok.
I found this: http://epsassets.manchester.ac.uk/structural-concepts/StudentCoursework/contents/43.pdf (http://epsassets.manchester.ac.uk/structural-concepts/StudentCoursework/contents/43.pdf)
Is there a better document that describes the node of percussion and sweet spot?
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Some older YouTube vids from Andy Safbats Norbs talks a about this.
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Thanks for all the discussion of other bat shapes that are similar, I've had a great time looking them all up (and fell down a bit of a rabbit hole of old designs - e.g. https://number17rc.weebly.com/gray-nicolls-scoops.html#). And it's really good to have a summary of the vibration node stuff, after a few months of trying to read up on all of it.
I wanted to try a different way of sharing the actual shape, so have tried out a bit of 3D scanning software on my phone. It's ok as a quick first try (disclaimer: I do a bit of this photogrammetry at work, but can't get onto my fancy computers at the moment to do it properly!). But here is the link to a 3D model that you can move around:
https://skfb.ly/6UBPp
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Never thought I'd see the word photogrammetry on this forum! :D
Cool stuff. Did anyone ever use a GM Sigma? They had a funky design.
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That should be mandatory on all for sale threads in future!
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Hi. Sorry for bumping such an old thread, hope it is ok, but I thought it best here as it follows on from my original post. Although this might end up being a bit niche, so apologies in advance.
Since I posted about making my first bat, I have spent the last 12 months reading every (yes, really!) thread on bat making, figured out how to carry out structural modelling of bats, and generally feeding an unhealthy obsession with bat making.
Sticking to the original post, where the design of the bat I made was based on artificial intelligence – anybody can now access the full Masters thesis where the method is described in loads of detail: https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675 (https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675)
I got in touch with the author, who was very kind and helped me out in recreating part of his work. Long story short, I managed to run his (slightly modified) code in Ansys, an engineering simulation software package. The result is that I can use it to predict quite a few things of interest for bats of almost any shape, like mass and volume, centres of mass and percussion, location of vibration nodes, etc… My main interest is in seeing how the different shapes of bats change these parameters, concentrating on their effect on things that most people are familiar with, like pickup and sweetspot.
The modelling is not perfect, as the shape of the back of the bat is estimated from 50 points. Overall this is actually pretty good at recreating most shapes, but if there is some feature that is a bit small in one direction (looking at you Dynadrive) then it can be missed. Those 50 points are meshed together, along with edges, toe, face and handle, in Ansys for the modelling, allowing you to come up with ridiculous shapes like this
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbcyYTCg/1.png) (https://postimages.org/)free photo upload (https://postimages.org/)
You then carry out the structural analysis, which means you can deform the bat like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3rn0J2K/2.gif) (https://postimages.org/)image share (https://postimages.org/)
Back to the original bat. I have used it twice, and it feels ok. There is a nice butterfly stain running pretty much across the middle, which might help things a little. Here are a few photos to remind you of the slightly odd shape, taken after I learnt how to polish bats a bit better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x85LPvBs/3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnZZhqhD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ht6TMP3q/4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSQSwFTC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvDdhJhV/5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFy3H1G4)
The bat weighs 2 lbs 10.8 oz in real life, and looks like it should have a low sweetspot. The modelling does a pretty good job in this case, with the predicted weight being 2 lbs 11.5 oz (I did not play around with the modelled density, just used a constant one, so could improve), and the shape matching the real one quite nicely.
(https://i.postimg.cc/25nbwdZ4/6.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
So trying to show some of the results on the bat itself, with COM = centre of mass, COP = centre of percussion, node 1 and node 2 = nodal points (of interest) for 1st and 2nd vibration modes. I think the definition of these have been covered a lot on this forum, but just in case…the COP is where the batter will feel no recoil of the bat, instead just a perfect rotation about the pivot point between the two hands. The nodal points are locations where the bat will not vibrate, instead transmitting more energy into the ball. The sweetspot is often defined as an area consisting of some combination of these points. In the thesis (page 48), an “objective function” is defined, that basically looks at how close together these 3 points are – the lower the value, the better the middle, at least according to that work. The centre of mass will, to a large extent, help define the pickup of the bat (i.e. the higher the centre of mass, the better the pickup will feel).
I marked the location of these features on my bat, to see how they compare with the shape, and the results are what you expect: the sweetspot defined by this method is pretty much where there is the most wood. It is still satisfying to see where exactly I should be aiming for (not that I often manage to!)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wB9yNz98/7-new.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
To me, I would say that this bat has a low middle, and the pickup feels a bit heavier than I would normally like. Which makes me interested in how the values compare with different bat shapes. So I went off and analysed some bats and have got way more results than people could probably ever care about!
But some of the more interesting things, at least to me…
Reassuringly, the overall weight of the bat does not seem to have much of an effect on where the middle or centre of mass are. Of course, the mass will affect the ball speed, but that also comes down to bat speed etc., and I want to focus on just the bat performance itself. At the risk of alienating everybody, I’ve made some graphs…apologies in advance.
In the top graph below, I’ve plotted mass against objective function. Lower objective function means those 3 points (COP, node 1, node 2) are closer together.
In the bottom graph below, I’ve plotted mass against the centre of mass location. Higher COM value means pickup might feel better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4jvGk7R/fig-8-mass.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mv76yDFH)
So what I think this means is that we are not constrained just by weight in how a bat can perform. But instead, the shape of the back can have a real (hopefully noticeable) difference.
Exploring this idea a bit further, below I’ve plotted the COM (“pickup”) against objective function (“size of middle”) for the same bats as in the above plots. What we can now see is an apparent relationship: the higher the centre of mass, the higher (poorer) the objective function. Those bats that fall below the straight line could be said to have a better middle (according to this definition) without sacrificing pickup. So I’ve named a few of the bats, and given pictures for the more weird ones.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9p9z5kH/fig-9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXvkytJT)
And finally, removing the definition of a sweetspot, and just showing exactly where the different points occur on the bats, again as a function of COM. There is a lot that could be read into this I suppose, but one interesting point is that the node 2 location does not change all that much, whereas the node 1 point does. Given that the amplitude of the vibration that creates node 1 is greater than node 2, then this seems like an important effect. And this is of course just a few bat designs that I measured up – I am in the process of doing this properly, using the best database I could find, which is the CAD models on the B3 website – I have over 100 different shapes measured and am now modelling, so I can take a proper look at the effect of duckbill V traditional toe, concaving, sweetspot position…
(https://i.postimg.cc/BnHn9Sn3/fig-10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3krT2HGf)
I promise to now follow up with the bats I have actually been making, rather than just plotting graphs about them!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WbcyYTCg/1.png) (https://postimages.org/)free photo upload (https://postimages.org/)
This is awesome!!!!
If I could, I'd give you a Nobel Prize!
Now, questions for you:
- In the picture above, what's the shape on the other side of the bat i.e. the side that's not shown? Is there a bow there?
- Did you try the converse of the experiment where you maximized the dimension ("centres of mass and percussion, location of vibration nodes") to see what was resulting (albeit weird) shape? I am driving towards a shape that provides maximum performance.
- Have you tried the good ol' Warne shape (thick back, huge edges) in your analysis?
Just love you work, bravo!!
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Ha! Bit too kind, but it has been a bit of a labour of love figuring this stuff out.
Answering your questions:
- that is an important point about the bow. One of the simplifications is that there is no bow to the bat. There is a 5 mm (I think) curvature across the face, but no bow along the face.
- the premise of the thesis work was to do exactly that. He used a genetic algorithm to basically go through almost every possible combination of shapes, to figure out the best. There were some constraints, like the legal size, and making sure that it was structurally sound, but otherwise it could be anything.
- not yet, but I would happily give it a go! The main problem with this is having the measurements. The actual analysis is fairly easy now I have a system to do it. I have considered going into a cricket shop, and just asking if i can sit down for an hour and measure all their bats, but think I might get slung out! If anyone has the dimernsions of their favourite bat then just put them up and I will see what I can do.
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- not yet, but I would happily give it a go! The main problem with this is having the measurements.
What specifically do you need? I have a couple, unused , brand, spanking new Waners! So, the dimensions are unchanged, as Stuart Kranzbuhler intended. :D
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He used a genetic algorithm to basically go through almost every possible combination of shapes, to figure out the best.
What was the outcome of that exercise?
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I did not understand a bit. But interesting read.
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What specifically do you need? I have a couple, unused , brand, spanking new Waners! So, the dimensions are unchanged, as Stuart Kranzbuhler intended. :D
I could probably give it a go with the usual dimensions (toe, maximum edge and swell, shoulders) and a good side profile. But it would be guessing.
Ideally, what I do is use one of these flooring gizmos to take a profile, and then measure off that.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL2WsD0L/2021-08-23-17-05-26.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnvSYxrf)
The code I run needs points measuring according to the grid below (taken from the thesis)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdHcsJ6x/Mazloomi-grid.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Back to making bats, rather than putting them on graphs…
I got 2 part mades from Hell4Leather – 1 x grade 2, 1 x grade 3 – to slowly keep working my way up from butterfly as I practise more. Annoyingly, I cannot for the life of me find the pictures I took of them in that state, which is annoying. Sorry.
So I don’t have many in progress photos for this one, but the idea was to carry on making shapes that are not really possible to buy. I sketched up this shape first, with the idea that it would be kind of like the Tesla Cyber Truck of bats. I wanted straight lines everywhere, totally unnatural. But not like the mid-1990s GM Diamond, which for some reason I never liked the look of. I used the grade 3 for this one, as I was worried it was going to go very wrong.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qv0ZLGYr/1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfyr4VcZ)
I assumed that this would be a bit heavy, and so I was going to try to take an ounce or two out by routing out some geometric lines about 3-4 mm wide, and maybe the same deep. One of the patterns I was thinking about is in this image, but as it turned out, the weight was ok and my fingers were safe from routing without a jig.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dV4n9crR/2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TK5rRSkh)toast hampstead (https://thesawmillgrill.com/specials)
Final measurements:
Toe: 14 – 28 mm
Edge: 40 mm
Swell: 62 mm
Shoulder: 10 mm
Weight: 2 lbs 9.5 oz
I am kind of surprised a bit, but the pickup on this shape just feels fantastic, at least to me. I guess that is because of having a lot less wood towards the toe (I hope I never have to face a yorker with it!).
I still had an old setup for making this one, so the backbreaking workmate (I do not recommend it – far too low) and mostly a plane. It was obviously fairly easy to stick to the dimensions I wanted because of the straight lines, but the point where the 4 lines join is not quite perfect, which will annoy me forever.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrMMtn3G/3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhhF3ZB8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/767gdFGW/4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZqZVmz3)
As with all the bats I have made recently, I like the idea of them being a little bit different. So I went with black twine on the handle, and even hid the exposed top part with a little black kinesiology tape.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYTrNHRt/5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hh3zfsQm)
I also came up with some new stickers for this lot of bats. On the handle there is a metallic sticker, which can be seen under the silicone grip. And on the bat, not being able to afford embossing on a small run, I went with textured matt vinyl, which I think matches the fairly simple design quite nicely. For some of the stickers I went with pretty complicated cut lines, and so had to apply those with tweezers and transfer tape for vinyl. It can be a bit fiddly, but ok once you do it once or twice.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzvH8TLV/6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YvxbQyB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VL5NNj4Y/7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mv2wPfh4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2j9zg1Yg/8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23vRZ8Vx)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxRjxvHb/9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvbC9P0M)
And for the modelling side of things. Well, because of the easy shape I think it did a good job. Modelled weight was almost spot on at 2 lbs 9.6 oz. And the shape was pretty good too, although not all lines stayed as straight as I wanted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QCvZCWxt/10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HvSFyck)
For this bat, from the toe:
COM: 315 mm
COP: 225 mm
Node 1: 180 mm
Node 2: 115 mm
(https://i.postimg.cc/htZvXdZx/11-new.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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What was the outcome of that exercise?
I'm paraphrasing, but basically, the alogrithms found the same overall shapes that bats already have. So with more weight towards the toe. It's not surprising, but nice to see that the natural evolution of the bat over time (admittedly with a few jumps in designs and rule changes) has come towards the best overall shape. One of the interesting differences is in the smaller, complex shapes that might not be that easy to do with the simpler traditional methods, but could be done with a CNC. I'm trying to see how much of a difference these make, as it might look huge on a graph, but the difference might only be a few millimetres. Which I would definitely not notice as I swung and missed again!
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I'm paraphrasing, but basically, the alogrithms found the same overall shapes that bats already have. So with more weight towards the toe.
Sounds like the TEndulkar profile.
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I'm trying to see how much of a difference these make, as it might look huge on a graph, but the difference might only be a few millimetres. Which I would definitely not notice as I swung and missed again!
Did the original author or you, through trial-and-error, arrive at an Objective Function "constant", for different/all shapes, even within a certain margin of variability?
Or, did your experiments reveal that there is no constant? If so, if we were to expand the objective function, what fundamental need to be made to the bat shape?
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Why not have more than one objective functions? Isn't it what Rashid Khan's bat profile trying to achieve?
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I can’t say I understood a word of this thread lol. So does this shape improve your batting given the amount of theory that’s gone into the shapes
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Did the original author or you, through trial-and-error, arrive at an Objective Function "constant", for different/all shapes, even within a certain margin of variability?
Or, did your experiments reveal that there is no constant? If so, if we were to expand the objective function, what fundamental need to be made to the bat shape?
I don't think so, if I understand correctly. Their study was trying to find a mimimum for that objective function, but of course, as you said, you could come up with whatever objective function you thought was the best estimate of something about the bat. As long as it involved a value that could be worked out in the simulation. If I ever get round to simulating the final 30 or so of the B3 shapes, then hopefully I can at least say something about the shapes used at present.
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I can’t say I understood a word of this thread lol. So does this shape improve your batting given the amount of theory that’s gone into the shapes
Well it's just something to take my mind off not being able to make bats anywhere nearly as nice as yours! They look great.
I've only just started playing again after 20 years out, so I think it'll take more than a strange bat shape to improve my batting!
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What is probably the ugliest bat I willll ever make…
The second of my part-mades from H4L was a really nice grade 2. I kind of wished I hadd saved it for another shape, but I will know for next time. No before photos again I’m afraid.
I used a different method for coming up with the shape of this bat. The last lockdown and home-schooling got me trying to think of activities that our two little ones would like, but that would somehow still involve making a cricket bat. Given that it’s probably bad form to let a 5 year old loose with an orbital sander, I thought I’d borrow a trick from car making – industrial modelling clay.
I got a tub of this stuff, softened a load of it in the microwave, then gave half to the kids, and the other half I started plastering all over a sacrificial cheap Kookaburra (more on that in a refurb thread at some point). I covered the bat in cling film to stop the clay sticking, but it is good stuff and would have come off fine. It took a bit of time (but then so did lockdown), to cover the whole bat and get round to shaping it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXx0Gtf5/1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nChRwM88)
After all the computer simulation and vibration stuff, I wanted to try something weird with the toe, to try to get a long middle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbkqc3jm/2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2qRxmStS)
The end result with the clay was not nice looking! So I just used it as a guide in the end, rather than a template.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K8pJ8GSz/3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxRvMP0F)
Swapping clay for willow, here is the end result, before and after stickering. This was my first time using a drawknife for most of the work. It is so much more satisfying and efficient than my first attempts with a plane, but easy to get wrong at first. For the weird toe I used progressively smaller sanding drums in a drill.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0YS6Rj/4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hjsJKG6Z/5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9R4XpcWy)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hcZLJV9/6.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjKdCbzp/7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LX89B3Qv/8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLqwHS6s/9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg94xx1p)
The side profile looks ok to me, but then I see the toe and just recoil! But it feels ok to pickup, even if it is a bit heavier than I like. I will have to wait and see how it plays.
Final measurements:
Toe: 19 – 29 mm
Edge: 35 mm
Swell: 61 mm
Shoulder: 15 mm
Weight: 2 lbs 11 oz
The computer simulation of this one is a little bit off (even if the weight is spot on), because it is hard to recreate the weird toe as it falls between the grid points I use to define the shape.
COM: 321 mm
COP: 231 mm
Node 1: 182 mm
Node 2: 112 mm
Weight: 2 lbs 10.8 oz
If you define the middle as the area between the COM and node 2 location (arguable), then it is 119 mm long. On the previous angular bat, the same length was 110 mm. So I did manage to lengthen the middle…by a whopping 9 mm!
(https://i.postimg.cc/sxt3zdj0/10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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^ This is some top-notch, out of the box thinking and execution!!!!
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I have a Newbery Amplus that weighs 2-13.1 and I think that pattern would work well for weight reduction.
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For the weird toe I used progressively smaller sanding drums in a drill.
Are these same size drums as a Dremel? Can you post pics?
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Loving your work here Marsbug! Great to see some thought and science being put into the design and manufacture. Previous evaluation of design is all done on 'feel', which is a very personal process. Nothing wrong with that, but I prefer scientific measurements.
A while back I was trying to work out nodes on a cricket bat using a 1/24th octave Real Time Analyser hooked up to a microphone. As I tapped up length of timber I could see the fudamental frequenciy, the harmonics, and the spot where tapping excited them the most and the least. When I substituted a bat, it got harder to see, but I was using my eye watching the RTA as the measuring device. Some specially designed software would have helped, but it was not to be.
The conclusion I came to was that the main thing that stops the toe of bat from vibrating was 'stiffness', or more directly, the depth of wood behind the face. This is restricted by regulations, but mainly by the way the toe is traditionally shaped to keep 'pickup' weight down, so my experiment ended there.
Your approach to have more depth at the the toe, but having it scalloped in places to keep weight down, seems like a smart way of doing it. I'm imagining a bat with a huge toe, but some king of deep multi diamond styled weight reduction as well, and wonder how that would affect it's resonant frequencies. It couldn't be manufactured with traditional methods, but it might be a step in the right direction.
Interesting stuff, please keep it up! I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of bats in a mathematic and scientific way.
And even without the radical design, the bat looks great! I've never seen a grip like that - is it a clear rubber outer or what? Looks cool though :)
9mm difference might not sound like much, but if you can measure it, people should be able to feel it.
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Well it's just something to take my mind off not being able to make bats anywhere nearly as nice as yours! They look great.
I've only just started playing again after 20 years out, so I think it'll take more than a strange bat shape to improve my batting!
You look to me like you have an eye for it mate and if you can produce these types of out there shapes you can certainly replicate the shapes that’s used on Mass.
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Are these same size drums as a Dremel? Can you post pics?
I did have a go with a Dremel, but it was far too fierce - combination of the speed (even slowed down) and the roughness.
So I went back to these things, that I used a lot with my first bat, but not since:
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg768802#msg768802 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg768802#msg768802)
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Loving your work here Marsbug! Great to see some thought and science being put into the design and manufacture. Previous evaluation of design is all done on 'feel', which is a very personal process. Nothing wrong with that, but I prefer scientific measurements.
A while back I was trying to work out nodes on a cricket bat using a 1/24th octave Real Time Analyser hooked up to a microphone. As I tapped up length of timber I could see the fudamental frequenciy, the harmonics, and the spot where tapping excited them the most and the least. When I substituted a bat, it got harder to see, but I was using my eye watching the RTA as the measuring device. Some specially designed software would have helped, but it was not to be.
The conclusion I came to was that the main thing that stops the toe of bat from vibrating was 'stiffness', or more directly, the depth of wood behind the face. This is restricted by regulations, but mainly by the way the toe is traditionally shaped to keep 'pickup' weight down, so my experiment ended there.
Your approach to have more depth at the the toe, but having it scalloped in places to keep weight down, seems like a smart way of doing it. I'm imagining a bat with a huge toe, but some king of deep multi diamond styled weight reduction as well, and wonder how that would affect it's resonant frequencies. It couldn't be manufactured with traditional methods, but it might be a step in the right direction.
Interesting stuff, please keep it up! I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of bats in a mathematic and scientific way.
And even without the radical design, the bat looks great! I've never seen a grip like that - is it a clear rubber outer or what? Looks cool though :)
9mm difference might not sound like much, but if you can measure it, people should be able to feel it.
This is really interesting! The one thing that I have no idea of yet is how accurate these simulations actually are. There are a few simplifications, which on their own I'd think wouldn't have much effect, but perhaps all together means the results could be out. Although just by going back to how they feel and look (all I have to go on usually), I think I'd agree with the pickup (Centre of Mass - COM) results. I'd need a set up like yours I guess to check the nodes. The COP could be done with a bat mallet, but I'd have to make sure that the bat was supported exactly as assumed in the simulations (defines the pivot point).
I must admit that I do like reading up on the theory behind bats (and hope to keep applying it), but am still always drawn to the hand-made bats we see on here, with their swooping lines. Which brings me onto the last bat I've made...
And the grip is a Kookaburra Concept silicone one. It feels really nice when you're shadow batting without gloves! When wearing gloves, it feels a bit thicker than a normal grip to me. And the actual grip when batting hasn't been a problem so far either. I just went for it for being transparent to shamelessly cram another logo under it, rather than anything else.
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The fourth and final bat (so far) in this series from me. And it's my favourite.
This one was mostly to see if I'd improved in making bats over the last 12 months. I made myself just use a drawknife and spokeshave, so I took my time and enjoyed it.
I started out this time with a Red Ink X* part-made, so the nicest piece I've tried so far. And what a huge piece of wood it was! Much less done to it than the previous ones I tried.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cCPkkdw/1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And side on to show the pretty big bow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tmyMRdP/2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The design this time wasn't to be driven by the simulations, rather by just kind of being inspired by some recent shapes that I've seen and liked over the last year. I wanted a little bit of a duckbill toe, middle to high sweetspot, reasonably (but not huge) edges, and an a bit of an offset between maximum edge and middle. Here is the rough shape after a first pass.
(https://i.postimg.cc/44MTH1XX/3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
But this thing came in at 2 lbs 14 oz, which was just far too heavy for me. So it was back to the workbench we went.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T2WT9s7K/4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
At first I tried just a bit of concaving, and bit more off the toe. But that only took off 2 oz, which still left it too heavy. So I took the edges down about 3 mm, and then had to reshape the whole thing to keep it looking how I wanted. But here is the shape and weight I was happy with, before final sanding and buffing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvmnhCqH/5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y60wWCpy/6.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7tFTPCn/7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And then the final bat with stickers, binding (and tape) and grip.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wxk0SqbZ/8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/prVY2j17/9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHkbsND9/10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Final measurements:
Toe: 17 - 24 mm
Edge: 36 mm
Swell: 59 mm
Shoulder: 14 mm
Weight: 2 lbs 10.4 oz
Because this was more along the lines of other shapes already out there, I wondered how it would compare in the simulations.
COM: 318 mm
COP: 225 mm
Node 1: 174 mm
Node 2: 110 mm
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYJ1VS1r/Elysium-schematic.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
So, overall this shape performs not too far off my previous bat (with the weird trident toe). Interestingly the COP is almost perfectly in line with the swell position, which means that if I ever hit one there it should feel great (no rebound) as well as flying! The middle isn't quite as high or long, but is slightly thicker. This is definitely the bat I want to use the most now, and can't wait to give it a go when I get chance.
That's all my bats to date. Just have to see how long I can manage to hold out getting a few more part-mades!
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This is what the forum is all about, superb effort @marsbug and a great topic for us all to follow 👏
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Quite apart from the interesting read on the modelling, that last bat in particular looks fantastic - well done @marsbug !
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Hopefully not labouring a point here, but one reason I tried to simulate the bats I made was to be able to compare them quantitatively, to try to put numbers on how a bat 'feels'. I don't know if I've achieved that, but in the future I should be able to simulate any bat I can get the measurements of, so if anybody knows of any strange or interesting shaped bats then please do let me know. I'd love to try to figure how differently they perform.
In the meantime, I've seen variations of this image by Gray-Nichols in a few places over the years. It shows where the maximum edge and spine are, and also where the middle should be in each bat. I quite like it for being a quick way of comparing the different shapes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/15cQKMFJ/Ewd-WCdn-Wg-AIrx-NH.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
So I combined the results for all 4 of the bats I made and put them in a single, similar sort of image. Again, the shaded region is just the area between the Centre of Percussion (COP) and the lowest vibration node that is relevant (node 2); this area is just one definition of the middle, and performance (however you measure it) would drop off gradually like in the GN image, rather than stop abruptly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmndzMVR/schematic-comparison.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6SMprt7)
The first bat I made, which was based on an artificial intelligence design, is the Pathfinder on the right. It does have a noticeably lower middle than the others, which is reflected in how the pickup feels to me, but I would never be able to say by how much just through handling it.
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Very nice and interesting!
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This thread has wandered a fair bit away from the title, but I think it serves as a place for all the bats I've made. So hopefully it's ok to post another one in here.
This is the second-to-last design I want to test myself with: a shorter T20 blade. Full confession - it was inspired by the Blank Bats B20, even if the profile ended up quite different. The plan was to make the blade shorter, and also drop the shoulders to make a longer handle. So overall not too much shorter than usual.
It started with a grade 2 part-made from Hell 4 Leather again. One of the main reasons that I couldn't quite follow the design I wanted was that there had just been a bit too much wood already removed when I got it. Wouldn't be a problem for a normal bat, but for the intended short and fat one I had in mind, it meant that I had to scale it back a bit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ss3bwHYw/1-raw.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhsFKbLL)
If you look about 3/4 of the way down the blade, you can see a bit of a knot. It worried me at the time as you can see how the pressing hadn't managed to push the face down there. It was probably raised by about 2-3 mm right across the face. More on that later.
Here's a shot of me planning the templates for shaping the edges and back. I found in this case the easiest thing to do was to do the design on the computer first, then print it out full-scale, cut out the things I needed, and use those to make better templates out of thin MDF. I actually got 2 part-mades at the same time - the other one is a (bad) work in progress. You can see how much I planned to chop off the toe of this one though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8DKHJZk/2-planning.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Here's how much I took off the shoulders and toe initially. The shoulders needed a fair bit of extra shaping to get them down to what I wanted, but I was just being cautious with the jigsaw. Same went for the toe too, when I wanted to take off a bit more weight. For those interested, the removed parts didn't really save that much weight in the end: 2 shoulder pieces were 0.7 oz combined, toe piece was 0.6 oz. Was kind of hoping for more of a weight saving, but there we go.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYqzn4HR/3-saving-weight.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Here are the dropped shoulders. I tried to make the bottom part of the handle a bit more oval, as it feels more comfortable to me, and you can see it's a bit skinnier there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMRmxMk9/5-shoulders.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I didn't do any concaving at all on this, as I wanted it to have plenty of wood no matter where I mis-hit it!
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xYQ5XWJ/6-toe-profile.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And that knot. What a pain that was. As I tried to sand the face level, more and more of the knot revealed itself, and it was a bit nasty. Some real dark, dead wood in places, so I really spent a fair bit of time sanding as much of it away as possible. It's not ideal, but it's only for me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HsQ1hZYh/7-knot.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Anyway, the final profile. It ended up being a little different to my planned design, just because the part-made didn't have enough wood in the edges or middle to get what I wanted. But I still quite like it, and can't wait to try it out in the nets soon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0XCmKbt/4-profile.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Final measurements:
toe: 12 - 27 mm
edge: 37 mm
swell: 63 mm
shoulder: 16 mm
weight: 2 lbs 10.4 oz
blade length: 530 mm
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Looks great!
I need to revisit my batshaping experiments ...one day soon...hopefully. :)
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Looks great!
I need to revisit my batshaping experiments ...one day soon...hopefully. :)
Well I can totally recommend it as a calming and distracting hobby! Although not a cheap one. I am thinking of a final, old-fashioned Mjolnir type shape, but then it will be back to only computer models of shapes for me for a while!
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Looks an absolute beast, would happily use that any day!
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Not a new bat as such, but an updated one. I thought that there was no point in having a bat shape that I didn't like and would never actually use. So I attacked my bat from this post (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg785936#msg785936 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg785936#msg785936)) with a spokeshave, with the aim of making it look a bit better and maybe losing a little weight.
I managed to take the weight down from 2 lbs 10.8 oz to 2 lbs 8.2 oz, by removing the weirdness from the toe, and reducing the maximum edge size from 35 to 32 mm. There's no concaving at all in the lower half, and maybe 1-2 mm in the upper half.
I MUCH prefer the new shape! And I gave the stickers a rebrand, which helps it feel new.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxTHKYWg/DSCF4992.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y65DdCWY/DSCF4982.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5bJ2LyP/DSCF4985.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5FdywKw/DSCF4993.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJsHjskT/DSCF4986.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsMpnHjV)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSb9BJJ7/DSCF4988.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/j52jxMb7/DSCF4990.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzFnMbhD)
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As much as I loved the weird precursor, that is a lovely profile. Old school with a little modern twist on it, I'd be happy with that any day.
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Fantastic pictures, love the one of it looking down the back of the bat. Great work
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As much as I loved the weird precursor, that is a lovely profile. Old school with a little modern twist on it, I'd be happy with that any day.
Ah it's nice that you say that, as I was looking at my old Mjolnir as a guide, but I just couldn't get close to its profile because of what I'd already done before. Maybe next time...
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This Thread is absolutely mind boggling both interesting and confusing! but the bats look very good, big fan of the branding especially the last one, very clean!
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I managed to take the weight down from 2 lbs 10.8 oz to 2 lbs 8.2 oz, by removing the weirdness from the toe, and reducing the maximum edge size from 35 to 32 mm. There's no concaving at all in the lower half, and maybe 1-2 mm in the upper half.
So, you removed two ounces without reducing meat in the sweet spot. Has the ping quality (I wish there was a way to measure it) changed/diminished?
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So, you removed two ounces without reducing meat in the sweet spot. Has the ping quality (I wish there was a way to measure it) changed/diminished?
Not that I can tell, but I am probably not a sensitive enough test to be sure! Most of that weight was down near the toe, which would feel pretty bad to hit with anyway. But I did take some weight off the edges around the middle (but keeping the spine high), so I guess the sweet spot is narrower in width now, although similar in length along the bat.
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I found an exuse to make another bat! This one is to be given away in a raffle for my club's anniversary, and I think I've accidentally made a @jonny77 profile!
Again, part-made from H4L, this time a Grade 1. As it'll be for somebody else, I thought I'd make it as big as possible! Very noticeable duckbill toe, comes in at 2 lbs 10 before grip and stickers. I'm hoping it should be a good 'un for someone.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gkR7ZFyh/7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G36NthDr/2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sg40TYND/16.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NhMhSgB/13-Copy.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTpGVgXp/11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JgBtXvS)
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"Worker Bee"!!
That is just so cool. :D
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Beautiful shape mate, really impressive work!
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Lovely lovely work - quite reminiscent of the Michael Clarke profile which was all the craze a few years back!
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Lovely stuff mate!
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Made a couple of bats, so thought I'd stick up a few photos, for those that like this sort of thing (I certainly still like seeing bat makers' photos, whether they're for a hobby or business).
First up, my first ever bat order! A youth player wanted a 2 lbs 7 oz, standard SH blade, mid sweetspot, big edges, minimal concaving... so basically your standard unicorm specs! :) But I did the best I could. Managed to hit 2 lbs 6.8 oz, 35 mm edges, about a 64 mm spine. This is what I've been calling my Elysium shape, which is basically a duckbill toe. Turned out ok, on a nice two-toned piece of willow, and I'm pretty chuffed at being able to recreate a previous shape. I tried to run the spine down past the duckbill a little, which I found a bit tricky, but it's just about visible in the photos I think.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jh7SP12R/11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1V9YybW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/z3mkMjDn/13.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMyf7DKH/2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bn0rP55L/9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/g2HfVw4M/6.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsRJQbTV/1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
If I could have left 2-3 of ounces in there, and left a thicker toe, I would have been tempted to keept it!
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And next up, a new shape for me. Tried to make one with a really high middle, with no concaving at all. So I ended up not really using the drawknife for this, and sticking to a plane most of the time, which felt like a bit of a step back for me.
But comes in at 2 lbs 10 oz, 36 mm (offset) edges, 64 mm spine, which runs straight into (no duckbilling) a 24 mm toe. Even experimented with a two-part PU toe guard, which I was pleasantly surprised with.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tghtZP5T/1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Nbg5ZKL/2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JnxNKLSC/3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9MN19nx/5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMBhGrdy/4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And as I will probably not end up keeping this, I thought I'd let you choose the stickers that should go with it! Which of these two do people prefer? I know it's not easy to tell with just the sticker sheet mock up (they're being printed at the moment).
Option 1. Random colour gradients and wave pattern.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrPWb040/new-outline-test-Elysium-v3-WAVES.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppM5RG3B)
Option 2. Highlighting climate change with a warming stripes pattern (in this case, global temperature from 1850-2021)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCP1Hvcc/new-outline-test-Elysium-v3-WARMING.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rwJgRXQ)
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The PU guard has a really nice finish, good work!!
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I hope it's ok to revive this thread now and again with updates, especially as I don't think this post should muddy somebody else's thread!
I compiled some of the bat shapes I've modelled in the Ansys engineering software I've been teaching myself at the same time as the actual bat making. I think it shows off some of the subtle differences quite well. These are images of the models I've made, so aren't perfect, but do the job I think (I mean, they look like bats!).
First up, about half of the B3 shapes. These are based on me using the CAD models on their website to measure 28 different points across the back. That took a VERY long time!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kvm8vFVT/shapes-B3-anim.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Next up, some of the shapes I've modelled myself, based on photos of real bats, measurements of the ones I've made, and some really weird shapes that I either read about or just made up. Be warned, there are some offensive-looking shapes in there!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx6h87cL/shapes-anim-crop.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Got to admit, there are a few in there that are so weird that I would love to see for real :)
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This is super stuff. Thanks for posting.
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This is super stuff. Thanks for posting.
No worries. I try to keep it to some kind of mimimum though, just not to bore people too much! I'm still here, plodding along with it all, but will only really post any updates that I think might be of interest to at least some people. And in the meantime I'll keep on enjoying all the other threads!
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I hope it's ok to revive this thread now and again with updates, especially as I don't think this post should muddy somebody else's thread!
I compiled some of the bat shapes I've modelled in the Ansys engineering software I've been teaching myself at the same time as the actual bat making. I think it shows off some of the subtle differences quite well. These are images of the models I've made, so aren't perfect, but do the job I think (I mean, they look like bats!).
First up, about half of the B3 shapes. These are based on me using the CAD models on their website to measure 28 different points across the back. That took a VERY long time!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kvm8vFVT/shapes-B3-anim.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Next up, some of the shapes I've modelled myself, based on photos of real bats, measurements of the ones I've made, and some really weird shapes that I either read about or just made up. Be warned, there are some offensive-looking shapes in there!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx6h87cL/shapes-anim-crop.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Got to admit, there are a few in there that are so weird that I would love to see for real :)
Are these graphics basically a montage of different shapes or are they highlighting features that enhance ping/performance? What should we look at , here?
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Just the former - so a montage of different shapes. More to show the different levels of concaving in the B3 shapes in the first animation, and some of the more weird shapes I've modelled in the second animation. I'd love to try out making some of the weirder ones, just to see what they feel like.
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Carrying on my periodic update on making bats - hope it's ok to keep reviving this old thread.
Another bat order, from word of mouth from the last, which is nice. Although making a bat for somebody else always feels a little different than just messing about for myself - a bit more pressure to get it right, and thinking about making it last a bit longer. So to that end, I tried to keep the toe and shoulders nice and chunky on this one.
The order was for large edges, moderate concaving, which I tried my best to do with this cleft. I actually took the edges down an extra 2 mm to get the weight right at the end, rather than reduce the swell size. Duckbill toe helps the pickup, which is alright I think.
A bit more of the process with this one, in case anyone is interested. This is how I start out. I don't have enough experience to do everything by eye, so I put A LOT of markings all over the place. I find it helps me adjust as I go along, based on the feel and weight. And definitely helps me get both edges roughly the same!
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdTFLDYc/1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A bit an Instragram-type shot towards the end of making it. You can see some of the few (and cheap!) tools I use (even cheaper plane kept out of sight).
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMsmYMvN/2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wh46qVrV)
I've decided to add a little maker's mark, for the literally singles of people out there that have one of my bats. A little hexagon stamp, honeycomb, bees etc.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XYn20SrQ/3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Side on profile. Pretty standard shape, with a duckbill toe, but a touch lower than usual for me, with the maximum spine height at about 180 mm from the toe (the order was for a low-mid middle).
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7bDLbMQ/4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A gratuitous angled shot for the 3 seconds that the sun came out. Quite a few knots and marks made an unwelcome appearance when I was shaping the back, so I wasn't comfortable with the grading, and will let go of this as a Grade 3.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRVv3z0t/8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z04LZp5C)
And the face. Pretty clean actually, so maybe Grade 2 would be ok, but I'm more comfortable erring on the side of caution when it's someone else's money.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZRW7D8Wm/7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And all the numbers, for those that like that sort of thing (photos can be hard to calibrate in my head):
toe: 21 - 27 mm
edge: 35 mm
swell: 64.5 mm
shoulder: 16 mm
weight: 2 lbs 11 oz (includes binding, grip, and stickers)
blade length: 550 mm
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Lovely bit of work, huge fan of the stickers and I'd be perfectly happy with that if I'd ordered a G2!
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What a great bat! I like the shoulder stamp too, it's the little things that make the bat feel higher quality.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/wMBhGrdy/4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Your attention to detail is something I can only dream of, that toe guard is a thing of beauty.
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Inspired by the low middle bats of Jonny, and recently Chad, I thought I'd give it a go. And although it's not something that I would usually use, someone at my club asked if I could make one, so challenge accepted!
From a H4L part-made, with very little done to it (as requested), I tried hard again to use the hand tools as much as possible, and not rely on fixing things with the sander. I had a bit more freedom in weight too, which I much prefer making, as I can go off feel more when I'm shaping and not worry too much about constantly making it lighter (I don't have loads of clefts to go through and find low density ones).
A few photos of the finished bat, with yet another variation of stickers - got to admit, I like designing these almost as much as making the bats. This design doesn't look that much, but it was a pain to go from a RGB overlay effect to a printed CMYK sticker. For those interested, the inspiration was an album cover designed by Peter Saville, but I realised afterwards that it looks pretty similar to a GM Hypa. Oh well.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FK0ZYSm6/3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DWysD8SQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvtbZ3xF/4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkCMRfJQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXRVLs88/5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtfJdgNC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzDKWgFM/1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmvKf0x6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4d5Q5TYb/7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLjFSkcX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dz3Q3zsP/10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fV5SxD8V)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTPcF2jP/9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZC8d5r3F)
Overall I'm pretty happy with the finished bat. It came out pretty well, and apart from me catching one shoulder with the sander (again! Last photo.), I don't think there's much I'd change. There's a knot on the face, right near the sweet spot, which I hope should help things. There's also a line (?) running diagonally across the toe, which I'm a bit more unsure about - anyone know if that's going to weaken the toe at all? I could put a guard on it, but that feels like hiding it, and I'd rather not.
For those that like numbers:
spine 66 mm
edge 35 mm
toe 20-27 mm
shoulders 16 mm
And for once I measured the weight at various stages, to see how much things add:
Finished 2 lbs 9.5 oz
Bound 2 lbs 10.5 oz
Stickered 2 lbs 10.7 oz
Gripped 2 lbs 12.2 oz
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That's a lot of bat for 2-12, love what you've done with the stickers too.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/FK0ZYSm6/3.jpg)
Top work with this one - really like the shape - it reminds me of an SS, except with a fairly generous amount towards the splice to counterbalance/help with longevity. Can understand the pain of catching a shoulder or toe with the sander - good lesson to learn, but gotta remember that we hobbyists ain't doing it day in and day out. Although we can afford more time to tasks, we won't quite hit the consistency and clean finish of the likes of Laver and Kember. But good on you trying to find the balance that works for you between hand tools and sanding - no two batmakers does things exactly the same, some will put more emphasis on the sanding to sculpt the shape, and others will want it pretty much done by hand-tools.
Glad to be of some inspiration - although a little jealous as this one is nicer than mine :D With regards to the mark on the toe - it should be fine, but without knowing what's deeper in, it's hard to tell. Most likely it won't affect the bat overall - however it might be the case that some on here may have experienced some splits around these kinds of blemishes?
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I'm so ordering my next Bat from you. Loving it. not only the ingenuity but the effort alone is worth an ovation. Hats off to you Sir.
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Thought I'd finally get round to writing up my latest bat - entirely for me to use!
I had been saving a low density part-made from H4L for a while, but couldn't wait any longer. As it was for me, I wanted it to be a slightly shorter blade, with pick up the most important thing. So I went for a trusty duckbill shape. It also helped that this also had a nice chunky handle compared to the other part-mades. The willow was classed as Grade 3, which seems fair enough - I don't mind at all, and the wide grains match well with the climate stripes stickers I wanted to use.
Apologies for the cherries - been using it in the nets to finish knocking it in ready for the season, and didn't get any before photos. No comments on how many are on the inside edge please... I'll be getting rid of them before it's used in a game :D
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvC5yYPg/1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bxLMMrK)
No concaving at all on this one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4JPmMzj/IMG-4956.avif) (https://postimg.cc/v1Mjbx5S)
And getting a bit better with the toe guards. Pretty happy that it's so thin that you can see the grains through it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5wTVXNL/IMG-4958.avif) (https://postimg.cc/9RgNdxKv)
For those that like numbers:
spine 65 mm
edge 37 mm
toe 18-24 mm
shoulders 15 mm
blade length 540 mm
blade width 106 mm
And the weight:
Naked 2 lbs 8.0 oz
Finished 2 lbs 10.5 oz
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Looks awesome mate, those back stickers are so nice. How much shorter blade did you go?
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Top notch work mate - do you have the clefts profiled at all from Matt, or do you do them from the full cleft? Having more to play with around the handle is always good, hate it when I accidentally catch it with the drawknife on one of the ones which are pretty much turned to the size you'd want to end up with! Really like the stickers and thought behind it, they do stand out. :)
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Looks awesome mate, those back stickers are so nice. How much shorter blade did you go?
I went for a 540 mm blade, so 15 mm shorter than usual. I'm only 5'10, with short legs, so it suits me fine!
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Top notch work mate - do you have the clefts profiled at all from Matt, or do you do them from the full cleft? Having more to play with around the handle is always good, hate it when I accidentally catch it with the drawknife on one of the ones which are pretty much turned to the size you'd want to end up with! Really like the stickers and thought behind it, they do stand out. :)
I asked Matt not to do anything at all to the back of these clefts, and he really didn't! They were great, and allowed me to make any shape I wanted with them. The handles on the whole were a bit on the skinny side (so a team mate told me), but I hadn't noticed and didn't mind. But I have definitely caught them with the knife in the past when trying to make them more oval shape on the bottom hand. I've started doing almost all of the handle work first now, so that I can get a better feel when I'm shaping the back.
And the stickers are still just matt vinyl through Diginate, no embossing or anything fancy like that. So I do try to design them to make up for the lack of all those things. That said, because each letter is separate, I do spend a LOT of time with transfer film and tweezers!
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Lovely looking stick mate and great design on the stickers. I found it much better early on to use a handled full cleft, rather than a part shaped one. You quickly learn more with the drawknife and how to shape the handle etc if you have to do more of the work imo. Plus allows for different profiles as you say.
On a side note, I wish everyone would think along the same lines and that a cleft which gets a bat like that at 2lbs 10oz is low density. Seem to be having more and more conversations around people's ridiculous expectations lately.
Top work mate, keep at it!
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Thanks! Still enjoying it (ok, maybe not the sanding that much!) so will keep plugging away.
I will have to dig out the numbers, but this cleft stood out as being noticeably lighter than all my others, even with a thick handle. I mean, I have made it with fairly small shoulders and toe, taken 2 mm off the edges, 15 off the length and it is still 2.10! So yeah, I don’t envy you having to explain this again and again.
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I *love* the climate stripe stickers so much. Great work!