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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: FattusCattus on May 04, 2022, 07:47:51 AM
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Any strong opinions for a recall for Malan?
Is Gubbins a dark horse if Crawley continues to struggle?
Could England go 1st test with 4 seamers and Root / Lawrence as part-time spin option?
Bairstow to keep if Foakes not fit?
Toby RoJo, an Overton or perhaps Hannon-Dalby to replace Robinson if he is unfit or out of favour?
Jimmy and Broad to play together?
Is Tom Haines any good?
Who could be vice-captain?
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Taken from the another thread, but names in the frame for selection...
Other than the guys we know who will play... Crawley, Root, Stokes, Bairstow
Batters
Haines has to be top of the list
Abell has looked good for Somerset
Duckett has been talked about.
Laurence should be allowed another go.
Pope has a technical issue (he is holding the bat wrong for some reason)
Bowling...
Parkinson is likely to get a go.
Some old blokes who have played a bit will get a chance.
I don't know where Robinson's fitness is at.
Outside bets...
Topley as a point of difference bowler, but he might need more overs in his legs to prove fitness.
Woakes might be done as a red ball player.
Sam Curran... Who knows.
Archer will only play white ball cricket this summer.
Which probably means a batting line up of the below for the first test.
Lees
Haines
Crawley
Root
Laurence
Stokes
Bairstow
As for bowling, I have no clue.
But Lords will be flat, so we can't play with 4 rfm bowlers.
But that means that one of Anderson, Broad and Robinson won't play. We may see Brydon Carse play though.
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Surely Bohannon has to be in the frame for a top/middle order spot? FC average of 47, uncomplicated technique, shown he can grind out the big scores.
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Harry Brook has to be in the frame you'd think, but will maybe get a chance in the white ball squad first? Can't be ignored if he keeps this run going though.
Bowling wise you can see Jimmy and Broad back, plus Robinson in UK conditions. Wood when fit, plus Mahmood, Fisher maybe again given a chance. We still need a class spinner to come through.
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Guessing the first test team will be fairly uncontroversial. Crawley will get the NZ series but nick off to Southee repeatedly, binning Foakes immediately would be harsh so Bairstow will get a go at 5 - they just need a 3.
Lions games in between the two test series should be an interesting selection! Loads of top 3 players in form at the moment.
Could see Jamie O getting a go with the ball beyond the obvious candidates.
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Just for sh*ts and giggles, I'm selecting a Lions type side to face the Kiwis in a warm up - using the criteria of fringe and non-test players, youth and having to give Div 1 players a priority. It gives me an XI like this:
B Compton
T Haines (C)
N Gubbins
D Malan
H Brook
M Burgess +
J Clark
K Barker
C Overton
O Hannon-Dalby
M Parkinson
Now before all you 'pedantists' wade in, it's just for fun and there's a few liberties with youth against stats - for instance, Burgess ahead of Ben Brown - plus Keith Barker is in to give desperate variety (too many RMF bowlers about!)
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Dent in for Malan, Higgins for Clark, Norwell for Hannon-Dalby and the other Overton in for Barker I reckon there Brucey. Realistically Bracey in too, but I think I've added enough South-West representation already!
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Ben Foakes plays for Surrey tomorrow.
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A lot depends on whether Root will bat three or four, and on whether Foakes is fit.
As for the next cans, Brook is light years ahead of Haines, Abell and Duckett. But please, leave him with Yorkshire another few months!
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Picking on form that Compton lad looks a decent long format batter. Probably a season to early however. Brooks at Yorkshire must feature soon.
Bowling could be a concern. Anderson and Broad not played much and not set the world alight early season when then have, Robinson out injured so not sure it looks great. We know who they will pick but could do with some form and rythem in that regard.
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Taken from the another thread, but names in the frame for selection...
Other than the guys we know who will play... Crawley, Root, Stokes, Bairstow
Batters
Haines has to be top of the list
Abell has looked good for Somerset
Duckett has been talked about.
Laurence should be allowed another go.
Pope has a technical issue (he is holding the bat wrong for some reason)
Bowling...
Parkinson is likely to get a go.
Some old blokes who have played a bit will get a chance.
I don't know where Robinson's fitness is at.
Outside bets...
Topley as a point of difference bowler, but he might need more overs in his legs to prove fitness.
Woakes might be done as a red ball player.
Sam Curran... Who knows.
Archer will only play white ball cricket this summer.
Which probably means a batting line up of the below for the first test.
Lees
Haines
Crawley
Root
Laurence
Stokes
Bairstow
As for bowling, I have no clue.
But Lords will be flat, so we can't play with 4 rfm bowlers.
But that means that one of Anderson, Broad and Robinson won't play. We may see Brydon Carse play though.
Love the look of Carse, hints of Harmison and Morkel in his action and i think reliance on pitch and ball less of a factor in his threat level when compared to the standard english 80mph trundlers.
A left armer would be great aswell but not sure Topleys the guy. Had high hopes for Garton a couple of years ago but he seems to have pigeon holed into more of a white ball cricketer at present. Luke Wood impresses me whenever I watch him but not sure his stats measure up
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Do quite like the look of Sibley 2.0
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I'm going to say this, then probably go against exactly what I say :)
Woakes might be done as a red ball player.
I don't know how we can say he might be done when he averages 35 with the bat and 22.5 with the ball in UK conditions. Such a shame he cannot reproduce similar overseas.
I think it is time for a fair bit of change with the team and repeatedly going after the same players to see whether they can make their mark is getting tired. It is time to start bringing fresh talent in.
I am not sure who to suggest fills the vacancies, but with Root at 3 or 4 and Stokes at 6, with the keeper at 7 (either Foakes or Bairstow) and the rest all up for grabs. I'd like to see Borad and Anderson retire when they are ready rather than getting culled before their time. If someone comes along who is consistently able to replace them, fine, but until then I still see they have a use in the squad.
I would even consider Root opening up with Lees, seeing whether a bit of experience at the top would help cement the other as more of a solid player.
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Never before can the journey from being released by a county to being an 'England prospect' have been so short.
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Interesting movement in momentum over the last few weeks.
Lees looks a good bet to start.
Robson has a chance of a recall, as does Sibley.
Crawley is Key's favourite, Malan has an outside shot.
Root
Brook seems nailed on now for a debut.
Stokes.
Foakes vs Bairstow... Would be good to have seen YJB play some red ball cricket. I don't know which way this will go.
Bowlers.
Parkinson will be in the squad. As will leach.
Potts, the bolter from Durham might even get a debut.
Anderson looked in good order and has overs under his belt.
Mahmood needs to play in my view.
Broad...
Robinson is look a bit flaky and could miss out, but has bowled OK so far.
Other bolters given Woakes and Overton are off games.
The other Overton (because we need a 90+mph bowler who can bat)
???
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Foakes will play.
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Saqib Mahmood has a broken back. Out for the season. Shame as he looked a real talent.
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Saqib Mahmood has a broken back. Out for the season. Shame as he looked a real talent.
Not another one! Real shame- hope he comes back fitter and stronger- I’m a fan.
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We have a whole 11 of bowlers injured currently .
It’s a bit off thread but you wonder why these happen in the modern game with such advances in all round diet and fitness.
In comparison with bowlers of 30 years ago for example.
I think the Durham quick looks certain to play-Potts I think
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Well, it is starting to look like a case of last man standing here, isn't it?
Word is there will be an extended squad of 17, which one assumes will allow them to select, for example, Bairstow who will not have played any red ball cricket and see how he goes in practice.
I tried to piece a squad together, and it isn't particularly easy. In terms of nailed on selections, I would be largely confident of Stokes, Root, Lees, Bairstow, Foakes, Broad and Anderson. That's 7 out of 17 (and at most 6 of the side, because I am assuming that Stokes choosing to bat six indicates that Jonny is getting the gloves back once he is adjusted to the red ball). His close relationship with Key and some promising knocks over the winter mean Crawley is probably the eighth.
Thereafter....erm...
On the basis of a new broom, I would go for Harry Brook, Matty Potts and Matt Parkinson as the most exciting young players. If he is fit, Dan Lawrence gets a go, and I would go for Dom Sibley and Josh Bohannon to round out the batting options - Dawid Malan is in great touch but I am not sure he has time left to make it in Test cricket, and James Vince was a narrow no thanks but would remain in thoughts. That leaves three bowling spots, and a major issue because the four I have so far named are at best number 10s in the order. I would therefore look at two quicker bowlers who are more capable with the willow in Jamie Overton and Brydon Carse - either would be able to perform the third/fourth seamer role alongside Stokes. The last spot is tough...is Ollie Robinson fit? Does Stokes think he can make Jack Leach a threat with the ball? I might be tempted to go really left field and pick one of two sharp left armers for variety, either Rees Topley or more likely Luke Wood.
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I'm not expecting any support for my reasoning, but I don't think Bairstow should be considered.
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Well the squad is announced tomorrow i think. The only 'certainties' the press seem to think are:
Lees
Root
Stokes
Foakes
Jimmy
Broad
Hotly tipped seem to bre:
Crawley
Bohannon
Malan
Brook
Parkinson
Overton J
Potts
Leach -
They reckon a squad of around 16 - could this finally be Darren Stevens moment :)
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Add Sam Robson who could well get recalled.
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If Robson gets a recall, perhaps we're going to start that whole cycle again? ;)
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I'm not expecting any support for my reasoning, but I don't think Bairstow should be considered.
If your reasoning is he has not played any red ball cricket before the test series, or played very little I cannot see the forum coming round your house with a load of pitchforks
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If your reasoning is he has not played any red ball cricket before the test series, or played very little I cannot see the forum coming round your house with a load of pitchforks
I think that's reasonable : if he were playing, I'd think anyone arguing against him insane after the winter but it'd be reasonable to leave him for later in the summer given his IPL stint.
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I think that's reasonable : if he were playing, I'd think anyone arguing against him insane after the winter but it'd be reasonable to leave him for later in the summer given his IPL stint.
PBK's can still qualify for the play offs/final and then Bairstow won't be back for the 1st test.
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Stokes
Anderson
Broad
Bairstow
Brook
Crawley
Foakes
Leach
Lees
C Overton
Pope
Potts
Root
A Northern heavy squad!
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That's a pretty underwhelming squad, although that's not surprising. Forgotten to pick a no3 again? Also they announced it with Root as captain ha.
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Very underwhelming. Pick Brook and Potts based on their great form, but include Crawley over Sibley, Dickson or Compton. I’m sure we all saw it coming
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looks like Pope to 3 based on the squad, standard ecb will take Brooks and Potts to carry the drinks with no intention of playing them.
Would love to see Brooks in at 5 but cant see them picking him over Bairstow, even though CC runs against a red ball must matter more than IPL. Not sure Pope is test number 3 either
Prediction for first test
Lees
Crawley
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Overton
Leach
Broad
Anderson
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Stokes
Anderson
Broad
Bairstow
Brook
Crawley
Foakes
Leach
Lees
C Overton
Pope
Potts
Root
A Northern heavy squad!
Really quite bazaar that squad.
No Parkinson is just criminal for a start.
No number 3 - unless they are going to throw Pope / Brook in there.
Only selecting 13 seems weird, especially when as I said before, Bairstow may only have been in the country for 2 days before the start of the test.
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What does Parkinson have to do to get selected? My previous optimism has been quickly eroded
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That squad looks awful, and is primed for an absolute pasting.
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To be fair, Leach has taken his wickets this season at a better SR, economy and average than Parkinson. Opportunity missed to play them together in the WI but given Leach bowled well on that tour I think he's still got credit in the bank. Be interesting to see if England under Stokes/McCullum continue with the same mindset of picking an all seam attack too often.
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George Dobell reporting this lineup
Lees
Crawley
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson/C Overton
Broad
Leach
Anderson
Don’t the obsession with Pope. Unless the pitch is as dead as the dodo, he can’t cut it at test level.
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I understand them persevering with Pope as his FC record is obscene and if he could bring even half that confidence to tests he'd be a great player. Not sure how the think tank decided 3 was the spot to do it though, feels very shoehorned in.
Hope Potts gets a go as he looks a serious talent, Brook too but suspect they will want Bairstow in as a senior player.
Crawley is burgling caps at this point, completely undeserved and at the expense of at least 4 better suited players.
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See Rob Keys mates son Crawley keeps his place. I think he has talent but just not in form. Doesn't send out a great message to the players who have been scoring runs consistently this season.
As for Parkinson, he's definitely pissed someone off
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Seems that Pope has been told he is 3 and Brook is 5.
Pope currently has a technical issue where he is playing with a bit of a closed face, it seems as if he has been working with Amla on something, which is a bit unusual. Unusual doesn't normally work in test cricket.
Stokes clearly doesn't rate Parkinson, apparently he destroys him in the nets.
I was half expecting Livingston to get a shot at the Moeen role... Yes I know that is mad...
Either way, still lots of RFM bowlers. We really need more leftie bowlers.
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Can't believe Crawley & Pope are both in the 11. Hoped to see a few new faces but understand if they want to settle them in more slowly.
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I think Pope has huge talent but he’s lucky to get in this squad. He is not a number 3 in a month of Sundays.
Lawrence is injured I think but he is not a number 3 either.
Quite possible looking at the squad Brook debuts at number 5 instead of playing Bairstow there.
Bowling wise with the injuries we have currently it’s about the best we could do
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George Dobell reporting this lineup
Lees
Crawley
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson/C Overton
Broad
Leach
Anderson
Don’t the obsession with Pope. Unless the pitch is as dead as the dodo, he can’t cut it at test level.
Is Robinson in the squad? From that squad, I'd go with the below...
Crawley
Less
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Brook
Foakes
Potts
Broad
Anderson
Leach
Not the line up I'd select if I'd selected the squad mind.
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Key has just confirmed the batting order will be
Lees
Crawley
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Which does beg the question, why is Harry Brook there and not scoring more runs for Yorkshire.
The bowling will become clear, but Potts has a good chance of he can hold a bat (here we go again...)
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so new management, and no new ideas. square pegs and round holes, glorified drinks carriers there for 'experience' and mates getting picked irrelevant of form or suitability.
Crawley picked based on historical record, not scoring a run in the CC - what have the in form guys in CC got to do the get a chance?
Pope batting at 3 despite not there for surrey
Bairstow coming back from IPL 2 days before the test to play instead of Brook whos in great red ball form
Difficult to justify Potts over Broad or Anderson, not seen him bat but Overton is more than capable so assume thats the decision.
Prefer leach over Parky but not much in it really
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It didn't take long!
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Which does beg the question, why is Harry Brook there and not scoring more runs for Yorkshire.
Tomorrow's fixtures are the last round of CC before T20 starts.
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On another note Will Macpherson has said we might hear about another setback for Jofra
I'm at the point now where I don't think we'll see him bowl again
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Stress fracture of his back, so not his elbow again... Who would be a fast bowler.
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The best that can be hoped for from that squad selection is that it is last chance for a number of the incumbents before the new management team has the time to properly assess the alternatives. England has a remarkable consistency of selection for a side that has won 1 of its last 17 tests
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Archer will bowl only limited overs in future, to be honest he would be mad to do anything else.
We, as in England should be shouldering some of the blame. Not all the blame but sum of it.
He was over bowled in Tests and we didn’t give him enough time for his body to make the change from IPL to a five day test
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The best that can be hoped for from that squad selection is that it is last chance for a number of the incumbents before the new management team has the time to properly assess the alternatives. England has a remarkable consistency of selection for a side that has won 1 of its last 17 tests
This does make sense in a way to me. Why not give those who failed a chance under new management. Its amazing the wonders confidence does to one in sport. They were picked for a reason in the first place. Maybe Stokes and McCullum will bring more stability or clarity of roles to players which will help them relax and perform better.
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got to feel for Jofra, was bowled into the ground in Australia by a captain and coaching setup who had no tactical ability at all and it has cost him years of his career and who knows how much financially .
Im starting to doubt we will see him in an england shirt again, if i were his agent id be advising to let the ecb pay for all the rehab then go play t20 for a living.
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got to feel for Jofra, was bowled into the ground in Australia by a captain and coaching setup who had no tactical ability at all and it has cost him years of his career and who knows how much financially .
Im starting to doubt we will see him in an england shirt again, if i were his agent id be advising to let the ecb pay for all the rehab then go play t20 for a living.
He's never played for England in Australia
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Gutted for Archer, he was potential superstar. He may still become a superstar but it’s seemly less likely with all the injuries.
Back stress fractures can be overcome though. Cummins and Hazlewood had them. They came back. I think Bumrah did his back as well and he came back.
Hopefully Archer can return.
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He's never played for England in Australia
my mistake, against australia.
If i remember he bowled a huge amount in NZ as well
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The innings we bowled him 42 or 44 overs should be pinned to every dressing room as a blueprint how not to handle genuine pace
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So much change, but so little difference.
Whole new test management setup, yet we still can't pick round pegs for round holes. If I'm Josh Bohannon or Dawid Malan, I'm going apoplectic over being overlooked for Ollie Pope (who's not a number 3, never looked like a number 3, and has never scored runs at 3). Brook will end up being the new Matt Parkinson - carrying drinks all day while we shoehorn in the "best mates XI". Potts selection is encouraging. I have completely lost all excitement over this English reset now. This was the opportunity to put down a marker that county runs and wickets get you picked, not just mateship.
Also feel for Jofra, ruined in part by Joe Root and the English management, but also he seems pretty fragile. I really hope he gets the right treatment and comes back stronger than ever.
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What are people's thoughts on Sam Hain from Warwickshire?
Doesn't really appear to be mentioned when England squads are being announced or the lack run scoring batsmen are being talked about.
(this is really my only 'claim to fame' in the cricket world) I remember him when he was on a school exchange from Australia to Loretto school, just outside of Edinburgh - he played a few games for our club as the Director of Sport at the school was a club member (we also had Scotland international George Munsey play for us while he was at the school). We were just weekend hackers.
Anyway, Sam was very highly thought of from Mike Powell, who was coaching at the school. They sent him down to Warwickshire for a trial and got signed straight away. I followed him for a bit and he started to do quite well. The hope was, I believe, he'd kick on and play for England but it hasn't transpired.
I see he's still in the first XI but don't really follow it. What do people think of his chances of getting a call-up for England?
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What are people's thoughts on Sam Hain from Warwickshire?
Doesn't really appear to be mentioned when England squads are being announced or the lack run scoring batsmen are being talked about.
(this is really my only 'claim to fame' in the cricket world) I remember him when he was on a school exchange from Australia to Loretto school, just outside of Edinburgh - he played a few games for our club as the Director of Sport at the school was a club member (we also had Scotland international George Munsey play for us while he was at the school). We were just weekend hackers.
Anyway, Sam was very highly thought of from Mike Powell, who was coaching at the school. They sent him down to Warwickshire for a trial and got signed straight away. I followed him for a bit and he started to do quite well. The hope was, I believe, he'd kick on and play for England but it hasn't transpired.
I see he's still in the first XI but don't really follow it. What do people think of his chances of getting a call-up for England?
I doubt very much that Hain is that close to selection. I think there are at least half a dozen or more names ahead of him. His one day record is excellent but he's name isn't anywhere near the top of the list.
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All about timing for county batsmen hoping for a callup, Hain's probably as close to selection now as Harry Brook was this time last year.
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Would love to see Hain given a shot in the Netherlands ODI series, IMO he's the closest thing in the format England have got to another Joe Root.
Will be interesting to see who plays those games with the test series ongoing at the time.
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I recall the fanfare Hain got for ‘selecting England over Australia’. IIRC he played for Australia u19s as a 16 year old. No mean feat.
Anyway his red ball record is modest imo anyway. He’d be a good 50 over option.
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Would love to see Hain given a shot in the Netherlands ODI series, IMO he's the closest thing in the format England have got to another Joe Root.
Will be interesting to see who plays those games with the test series ongoing at the time.
Is it something they need though? Given the number of more dynamic batsman available?
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Is it something they need though? Given the number of more dynamic batsman available?
Personally I think so, Root has been an enormous part of the England ODI team's success in recent years.
He may not be whacking 6s every other ball but his strike rate is still very good and he offers a lot when the pitch doesn't allow you to go out and whack it for 50 overs.
Hain, IMO, can do the same role and keep the runs ticking over while the hitters do their thing. Think their List A strike rates are very similar and Hain's List A average is absurd.
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I wonder if manufactured actions contribute to the preponderance of modern fast-bowling injuries. But this might be another thread.
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Not bowling enough is a lot of the issue. Bowlers spend so much time in the gym and not enough time actually bowling.
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Not bowling enough is a lot of the issue. Bowlers spend so much time in the gym and not enough time actually bowling.
Yes, I believe there is some truth in this too
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Personally I think so, Root has been an enormous part of the England ODI team's success in recent years.
He may not be whacking 6s every other ball but his strike rate is still very good and he offers a lot when the pitch doesn't allow you to go out and whack it for 50 overs.
Hain, IMO, can do the same role and keep the runs ticking over while the hitters do their thing. Think their List A strike rates are very similar and Hain's List A average is absurd.
The same Joe Root that’s played 6 ODI’s in the last 2 years?
I like Hain as a player, but he was born 10 years too late.
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The same Joe Root that’s played 6 ODI’s in the last 2 years?
I like Hain as a player, but he was born 10 years too late.
If a lot of those games weren't played under bubble conditions or with a Covid-hit replacement squad, I suspect he would have played a lot more. They've definitely prioritised Root's contribution to the test side.
That said: India series lost 2-1 with no Root, Sri Lanka series won 2-0 with Root scoring two 50s, Pakistan series Root you suspect would have done well given that Vince, Crawley, etc got runs with a far inferior LA record to Root's.
He's hardly a spent force in ODI cricket.
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Thanks for all the thoughts on Sam Hain. Interesting to read and get opinions on where he is in the pecking order of English cricket. Appreciated.