Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: billyb on December 01, 2022, 05:31:32 AM
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I don't have much to contribute yet other than to say we scored 14/0 off the first over.
Bazball is pretty funny, I must say.
Cook would be turning in his farm! 😂
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They've batted well, but Jesus Christ this pitch is ridiculously flat.
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The great banter era of English Test Cricket continues.
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That’s Crawley in the team for the next 10 years
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Runs galore for the England camp this week then
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Cracking pair of centuries but Crawley dismissed exactly how I'd expect 😂
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Might have to drop Root if everyone else is scoring tons
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Is it Bad Light that has caused the end of the day? I'm guessing slow over rate due to continually fetching the ball from the boundary?
Imagine how many we could have scored if it was full 90 overs!!
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We don’t know if this pitch will spin, only seen bbc text coverage.
However, think it’s only fair to say pitches that offer nothing to the bowlers on the first day should be dug up
Some of us have called out games Sri Lanka and Pakistan before so just because it’s England it should not make any difference.
Yes I’m a die hard England fan but there has to be a balance.
So far this game appears to be against a bowling machine, is that right I wonder
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I do love a traditional day of T75 cricket. Crazy, but brilliant. Deck is very flat and from what I saw they bowled some dross, but still. 6.75 run rate on day 1 of a test is ridiculous!
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I suppose my question after watching some of the cricket today is 'how enjoyable was that to watch'?
As much as I appreciated the stroke play and the run scoring the balance was too one sided. If Pakistan had of batted first they may not have scored at quite the same run rate but would have probably ended up the day on 350+ for 2 or 3 wickets down. It almost as if you could have just set a bowling machine and said...lets see who can hit it the furthest.
Don't want to be too old fashioned but was that really a brilliant day of test cricket????
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Pak would have in likely scored slower as they don’t have the baz ball style just yet …
However dross indicates to me the bowling was crap on occasion but on a flat deck like that
Good balls from pacers are Nullified and they look and feel like 60 mph bowlers in club cricket for pros
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I haven’t seen it to comment on the pitch or was it just good batting? We have seen many flat pitches but can’t remember a team scoring 500+ in a day or basically 3/4 of a day with 76 overs bowled.
Aus have just scored almost 600 in 150 overs to put that scoring rate into context. Let’s see what happens after 5 days if it’s 500/4 players 600 for 5 and 100/0 and a boring drawer maybe a flat pitch but let’s see
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I don't think there's any doubt that it's a flat pitch! Suspect we will come to regret not playing Overton.
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The pitch did look flat, Pakistan didn't bowl great but you have to give credit to the batsman and the leadership. They're changing the dynamics and it's interesting. I agree though, if it's a high scoring games with few wickets for 5 days and a draw, then it's all a bit pointless.
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How good was it to watch?
Errr...as it was so out of the ordinary, I actually enjoyed it for the most part. I wouldn't enjoy it if it kept happening though, as there was only ever the semblance of a contest for about two overs when Shah put the new ball in some good areas.
All four centurions batted well. Brook may cash in with a double tomorrow because he looked like there was no bowling at him by the end. Stokes too, for that matter. But they will all be honest with themselves that these were not difficult runs - oddly, if you didn't keep an eye on the scoreboard ticking over, it would not have felt like there was anything particularly revolutionary going on so conventional was the majority of the strokeplay - it is simply a very benign pitch (but crucially not a completely dead one), and if we are honest a fairly weak attack (especially given how much strength in depth Pakistan appear to have).
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Pak would have in likely scored slower as they don’t have the baz ball style just yet …
However dross indicates to me the bowling was crap on occasion but on a flat deck like that
Good balls from pacers are Nullified and they look and feel like 60 mph bowlers in club cricket for pros
Could just be the Gray Nics UK vs Gray Nics Aus difference? Crawley scored 2 runs less than Azam did in the entire T20 WC, using a UK GN, at a faster strike rate and in 1 innings. 3 centurions, 331 runs plundered by bats made by a random ginger bloke in Robertsbridge, part of history as it's the first time there have been 4 centurions on day 1 of a test. Wonder if they're happy with their bats...
Absolutely nuts to think that there were only 75 overs played, some absolute carnage. Hard to tell how the match will go until both sides have batted, but I do feel there may not be that many wickets...
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Could just be the Gray Nics UK vs Gray Nics Aus difference? Crawley scored 2 runs less than Azam did in the entire T20 WC, using a UK GN, at a faster strike rate and in 1 innings. 3 centurions, 331 runs plundered by bats made by a random ginger bloke in Robertsbridge, part of history as it's the first time there have been 4 centurions on day 1 of a test. Wonder if they're happy with their bats...
Absolutely nuts to think that there were only 75 overs played, some absolute carnage. Hard to tell how the match will go until both sides have batted, but I do feel there may not be that many wickets...
Think the wickets bit is an understatement with our bowling attack! Hopefully they prove me wrong
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I haven’t seen it to comment on the pitch or was it just good batting? We have seen many flat pitches but can’t remember a team scoring 500+ in a day or basically 3/4 of a day with 76 overs bowled.
Aus have just scored almost 600 in 150 overs to put that scoring rate into context. Let’s see what happens after 5 days if it’s 500/4 players 600 for 5 and 100/0 and a boring drawer maybe a flat pitch but let’s see
Flat pitch, average bowling, below average fielding at times.
Englands batting was brilliant though.
Australia played here not that long ago - what was the most they scored in a day? Not much more than 300 I suspect.
Have to confess I havent seen alot of Duckett First-Class wise. Any Notts or Northants fans reckon he is a candidate for the full time role at the top or is this a horses for courses selection against spin heavy attacks?
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Four centuries in 75 overs sounds like pure madness to me. England went bonkers today
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That’s Crawley in the team for the next 10 years
Hope so.
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Any Notts or Northants fans reckon he is a candidate for the full time role at the top or is this a horses for courses selection against spin heavy attacks?
It's quite a long time since he played for Northants!
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Mahmood the reluctant owner of two new records...
The 9th most expensive figures in an innings in test history, 4-235. And...
The joint-5th most expensive over in test history - Harry Brook hit him for 27 in an over.
England finish on 657... Feel like there were a few more runs to be had out there, and Stokes & Livingstone missed out really today. But we can hardly complain! I just feel like a 700/800 was very much in reach.
Brook got his 150 and looked so, so good. Some player. The future of the England Test team seems immeasurably brighter than it did a year or so ago.
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Didn't get the chance to watch him yesterday but Brook looked phenomenal this morning, there was more than a hint of Kevin Pietersen watching him go after the spinner.
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May as well just shake hands
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Spare a thought for the bowlers, :)
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Are england bowling dross or the pitch just dire for bowlers
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Odd bad ball, but this surface is just lifeless. Exactly the same dross they served up for Australia.
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It’s what I thought the pitch is just rubbish and as I thought pak can’t live with englands run rate but are not in any more d anger of getting out
Pointless game so far …
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Shocking that Will Jacks can get picked as a bowler.
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Shocking that Will Jacks can get picked as a bowler.
He's no really though, barring sickness he'd have been out for Foakes and we'd have be onto the next best bowler after him...
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He's no really though, barring sickness he'd have been out for Foakes and we'd have be onto the next best bowler after him...
Liam Livingstone - who was picked ahead of him. Jacks is in the squad to bowl.
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* Unlike Lawrence, who wasn't. ;)
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Liam Livingstone - who was picked ahead of him. Jacks is in the squad to bowl.
He's in as a batting allrounder I'd suggest, much like Livingstone.
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Take back what i said yesterday this will be 600+ plays 600+ and then 300/3 shake hands job
If these pitches carry on like this they could really make a false picture of peoples averages and do nothing to support conditions in the rest of the world where in England, SA, NZ it swings, India and Bangladesh it turns, Aus its quick and bounces and this is just like playing on the M25
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He's in as a batting allrounder I'd suggest, much like Livingstone.
Moeen Ali role. Batting is his stronger suit, but he's been picked instead of a specialist spinner (because we don't have any good ones).
Kept Virdi and Moriarty out of Surrey side last year. know what he does; I spent fairly large parts of the summer watching him. ;)
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/12/02/trying-mould-will-jacks-new-moeen-ali-englands-latest-gung-ho/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/12/02/trying-mould-will-jacks-new-moeen-ali-englands-latest-gung-ho/)
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Moeen Ali role. Batting is his stronger suit, but he's been picked instead of a specialist spinner (because we don't have any good ones).
Kept Virdi and Moriarty out of Surrey side last year. know what he does; I spent fairly large parts of the summer watching him. ;)
I guess we can agree to meet in the middle. Like Mo he’s been picked to bowl, but not quite as a bowler 😁
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Can we agree that he's not that good at bowling?
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I think there’s something there, but at best we’re getting another Mo.
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I think Mooen Ali was picked for England as a batsman before the 'Moeen Ali-role' been thought of. I might be wrong. But certainly, he had scored very heavily at no.3 in county cricket.
An observation, not an argument. ;)
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He was picked to bat 6 and bowl spin.
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He was picked to bat 6 and bowl spin.
A traditional batting all-rounder?
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An actual wicket
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Good effort from England, but we all know what the result of this match will be.
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On the positive side, gives them a real good look at Jacks. Seems to have the skillset to be a potential multiformat player for years to come.
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Moeen Ali role. Batting is his stronger suit, but he's been picked instead of a specialist spinner (because we don't have any good ones).
Kept Virdi and Moriarty out of Surrey side last year. know what he does; I spent fairly large parts of the summer watching him. ;)
I'd argue he didn't keep them out of the side but it was a decision made by Surrey to add the extra batting know he could hold an end to allow seamers to take wickets.
Rather than him being a better spinner than Virdi or Moriarty.
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I wasn't suggesting he was a better bowler than either of them. But he did keep them out of the side, for whatever reason. (Go on Surrey fans' forum and you will find loads of conjecture about it )
I was also suggesting it was a joke that England should play him as a bowler. I had to check to see if 3-140 is his best-bowling. (It isn't.)
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Agreed, but as a second spinner in such conditions. Is he or Livingstone the worst options we could use? Probably not, with Root in the side too, would Critchley been an option (just thinking of someone that turns it the other way).
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Livingstone didn't bowl a single ball, Jacks bowled 33 overs so quite the difference. Not sure why they didn't give Livingstone a go even for a couple overs just for something different, on pitches like this you have to use everything at your disposal.
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Wasn't Livingstone injured?
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Yes, Livingstone is injured.
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I thought his action seemed familiar then I saw a journalist on Twitter likened Jacks’ action to Michael Vaughan’s. I’m no off spin expert so would be interested to know what a proper offie thinks of his action/ability
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Well, they're certainly going for it
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Livingstone using his bat as a walking stick
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Robbooooooo
Even if we lose I'm fine with it, Stokes has made the intentions clear where most teams wouldn't even entertain it.
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Well bowled, Will Jacks. :o
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Joe Root batted left-handed for one ball!
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They are right that people pay to come and should be entertained. To dare to win you must be willing to lose. Another cracking final day in prospect.
Not to forget this was basically the only attack England had fit to play with the sickness in camp.
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They are right that people pay to come and should be entertained. To dare to win you must be willing to lose. Another cracking final day in prospect.
Not to forget this was basically the only attack England had fit to play with the sickness in camp.
Well said, couldnt have put it better.
So much better to watch than the fear-of-failure regimes of the past. Hats off to Mccullum!
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We need a hero here...
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This game has had no right to deserve a result, but this has been a masterclass from the seamers after lunch
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Been watching what I can.
What I will say is well done to England for retiring early and trying to get the game to have a winner.
As much as I want Pakistan to win and if they do win, I think it will be a victory due to England's decision. At least there seems to be some excitement on the last day!
Great to have a Pak vs Eng test match!
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How has the bail not gone off then
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Love leg slip
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What a team!
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POPEY WHAT A GRAB
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600v600. What a boring match.
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I have no fingernails left. Fair play. What a game of cricket this is.
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How have they done that then??? Amazing, can't believe it really. Never even looked possible from Day 1.
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WHAT A WIN
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Great win! Well deserved!
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Def for me the best overseas win, we won in the dark in Karachi in 2001 I think and this betters that by some distance.
England forced the pace on an absolute road of a pitch and never gave up trying to win the game.
Think a lot of credit is due to the new management and how the players have bought into it. We def risked losing with that declaration and the gamble paid off.
Up there with our best ever performances I think
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Well played England. Hopefully this is the dawn of a new age of test cricket.
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I rather enjoyed that!up until just before tea, most people had Pakistan to win!
I still refuse to believe Hawkeye in the overturned Leach LBW. That ball was hitting 3/4 of the way up the stumps.
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Absolute seed from Anderson. So, so good.
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And Robinson then joins him. Jesus Christ
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SERIES WINS IN ASIA
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Another great match. Not a single ball bowled by Stokes all game is a concern.
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Was it? He wasn't really needed and had full trust in his bowlers stepping up; can't have him just be a battering ram every game
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England were superb. Got Pakistan under pressure and they choked. Never stopped believing
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Suggests to me he isn’t fully fit, which affects the balance of the side.
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Not sure many of them are fully fit, talk is that most of them are still getting over the virus they had. Definitely a stronger side with Stokes able to bowl but they managed pretty well without.
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Would love to see Rehan Ahmed come in for the next match now the series is decided, to debut in a side with their tails up. Candidates to drop out are Stokes or Wood if not fully fit. Rest up for the big year ahead. Otherwise a straight swap with Jacks.
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Not sure about dropping Stokes, I'd want him to get as much extra captaincy experience as possible unless he really cannot play.
If they wanted to go a bit experimental and have a look at a few other players with the series sewn up, could go something like: Ahmed for Leach, JOverton for Wood and Foakes for Jacks. Improves the batting and Root can pick up the part time spin overs easily.
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Injuries permitting I think Foakes comes in for Jack and that probably it. This side is still too new to go wild with changes.
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Not sure about dropping Stokes, I'd want him to get as much extra captaincy experience as possible unless he really cannot play.
If they wanted to go a bit experimental and have a look at a few other players with the series sewn up, could go something like: Ahmed for Leach, JOverton for Wood and Foakes for Jacks. Improves the batting and Root can pick up the part time spin overs easily.
He seems to be doing alright with the captaincy to me!
Id much rather he had a rest if hes carrying an injury. Theres a lot of cricket ahead and England are a much better side moving forward with Stokes as a fit bowling option.
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Would like to see Ahmed come in for Jacks in the final test. With a tour to India on the horizon, we need to develop a further spin option as Leech is very limited at this level and will need support from a front line spinner
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They're doing it, Rehan Ahmed comes in for Jacks. Throwing an inexperienced 18yo leggie in feels like a terrible idea to me... but with Stokes working his miracles he'll probably get a 5fer and a ton!
Foakes in for Jimmy too, guessing that means Stokes is fit to bowl or they think it'll be a turner.
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I have to say I don't know much about Rehan, I really hope he goes well, but this seems an odd selection.
Am glad that Foakes is back too.
The pressure will be on Robinson and Leach to bowl a lot of overs.
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Think stokes rates this guy so wants to see what he can do as series won so when of not now do you give a youngster a go?
If other captains who may get nervous if they got tapped about then wouldn’t bowl them I’d be nervous but feel stokes will back him remember warned got smacked round park in his first few but he had good backing which helped
Let’s see as bold move but that’s the way they are going to be and win or loose I’m behind it as otherwise feel these would have been 2 boring draws
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Its a good call - why not give him a first taste of international cricket where its not life and death? Stokes will back him and not be afraid os using him, and it helps that he is also a decent bat so he will have multiple ways to get into the game.
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The 6 hitting contest of North v South was a decent watch :D
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Hope this kid is the real deal, of course not as much pressure after already winning the series so a good chance for him!
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Great Decision to play the leg spinner in my opinion. Much better than previous conservative England managements method of throwing in a new spinner only at the end of an Ashes drubbing when most of the players cant wait for the series to end. They've seen what Jacks can do - why not have a look at Ahmed aswell? In a positive winning camp.
Reports of a spin friendly surface in Karachi so that should help when he does have twirl.
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Rehan is going to be miles better than leach
Either now or very soon
Great move , not sure why you would not play him …
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Bold call to say Ahmed will be better than Leach very soon, let alone claiming he's better now. Leach has 100 test wickets, Ahmed doesn't have 10 FC wickets.
He's a very exciting prospect and a potential genuine spin bowling all-rounder but it helps nobody to be making claims like that.
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Not sure why it helps nooone ?
Leach is poor should have been dropped ages ago
Only reason he hasn’t no one to replace him fact
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I might be wrong but isn't Leach one of the highest wicket takers this calendar year. Much improved because he has a captain who backs him
Ahmed will go down the same road like Simon Kerrigan, Scott Borthwick, Mason Crane and to a lesser extent Dom Bess
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Glad you’re backing the young lad lol
We’ll see what happens …
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Not sure why it helps nooone ?
Leach is poor should have been dropped ages ago
Only reason he hasn’t no one to replace him fact
A young player is not more likely to succeed if he is overhyped before his test career has even begun. An experienced player like Leach is not more likely to succeed if he is unfairly castigated.
Leach's stats stack up very well with pretty much every England spinner of the last few decades, and he only seems to be getting more effective with the new leadership of the test side.
It's just simply not true that Leach is a poor bowler.
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We will find out , I don’t think he’s bothered by the hype or pressure
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Takes his first wicket
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A young player is not more likely to succeed if he is overhyped before his test career has even begun. An experienced player like Leach is not more likely to succeed if he is unfairly castigated.
Both of those things depend on the character of the players in question and their influences.
I dare say neither read CBF
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Exactly Alba
Those kind of views are more of a reflection of one’s own psyche than Rehans
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Root absolutely burgles one
Terrible cricket all round
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It’s the same in club cricket
Some can take the pressure, some can’t regardless of ability
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Now thats a law I didn't know with the runout. Learn something new every day
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Rehan has outbowled leach so far
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Glad I have been proved right about rehan today !!
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Early days and I still don't see him playing in the summer over Leach, but he's looked good in this second spell after some pretty poor stuff the first time round
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Both of those things depend on the character of the players in question and their influences.
That's a fair point, although from his first 5 overs you'd have to say that Ahmed was definitely feeling his nerves on debut.
Settled down very promisingly since then and he's done what you expect a wrist spinner to do on a flat track by extracting more turn than the finger spinner.
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Within 18 months he will be englands main spinner if stokes and callum are there
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That's a fair point, although from his first 5 overs you'd have to say that Ahmed was definitely feeling his nerves on debut.
Settled down very promisingly since then and he's done what you expect a wrist spinner to do on a flat track by extracting more turn than the finger spinner.
I think you'd feel nerves on Test debut whether you were 18 or 30.
For what its worth im certainly not in the anti-Leach brigade and think he does a valuable if limited job for England. I think I'm correct in saying that at the beginning of 2022 his career Test average was lower that Nathan Lyons.
However on this occasion thought it was perfect to give the debut to Rehan Ahmed whos potential ceiling is considerably higher than Leaches. And in any case this is Karachi - pick as many spinners as you like!
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Ahmed definitely fits the mould of how Stokes and McCullum want England to play.
Would offer more with the bat than Leach and obviously a more attacking option with the ball, but I don't think it's for nothing that Leach has retained his place under Stokes and McCullum.
As you say, he does a valuable job, and he's looked a much more effective option with a skipper who's willing to treat him as a wicket taker rather than a holding bowler.
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Some crackers from Leach at the end there
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Some crackers from Leach at the end there
Amazing stuff from a 'poor bowler who should've been dropped ages ago' 😂
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We’ll see what happens to leach in 18 months
Rehan will offer everything and much more by then
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Rehan has outbowled leach so far
Enjoyed watching him bowl today. For an 18 year old on debut he bowled superbly and was much more threatening against the top order than Leach. Certainly justified his selection
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In the uk and cricket we certainly are negative some ppl
It was evident he would do well
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In the uk and cricket we certainly are negative some ppl
It was evident he would do well
Everyone here said they wanted him to do well.
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Some just felt we were putting pressure on him lol
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Some just felt we were putting pressure on him lol
Oh no, what happens if he opens up this thread and reads what other people think about him/predict may happen, imagine the pressure he'll feel...
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That was my point Chad
He doesn’t give a damn and he doesn’t have the mindset of ameteurs cricketers who are afraid
The lad will become something I’m sure
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Blindingly obvious that I was talking about the wider cricket commentariat and not solely your post on CBF but go off I guess.
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I'd point to the long list of young cricketers negatively affected by sensationalist media coverage but then I'd be sat here typing names all day.
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Bit like life generally you can tell which ones won’t won’t fussed with all that . You gotta have a good eye for a sportsman
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That was my point Chad
He doesn’t give a damn and he doesn’t have the mindset of ameteurs cricketers who are afraid
The lad will become something I’m sure
You know him personally?
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Does it matter ? Plus that’s a personal matter which I don’t want to bring into the equation
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I wasn't being funny, was genuinely interested if you knew him and therefore his character that was all
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His family is quite well known in the are
A lot of ppl look up to him now because of how much he has achieved in such a short space of time.
Did you guys see how Hussain gave him the cap and his father was there ?
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Bit like life generally you can tell which ones won’t won’t fussed with all that . You gotta have a good eye for a sportsman
They should get you in the England youth setup.
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😉 I’m good at picking stars
Picked a few at the club level
You can see it on the mental side which one has got it and which hasn’t
Of course rehan has a long way to go and there will be many down periods
But stokes will back him
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😉 I’m good at picking stars
Picked a few at the club level
You can see it on the mental side which one has got it and which hasn’t
Of course rehan has a long way to go and there will be many down periods
But stokes will back him
Sorry to break it to you pal,but you know the selector role has already been snapped up by Luke Wright? You were shortlisted I imagine lol
I like the look of Rehan tho, he looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself which is a really good sign. Plus he came back from an iffy start which is a sign of big kahunas…Looking forward to watching him bat.
I also like the new Speccy Pakistani leggie, Abrar.Particularly as a fellow glasses wearer.
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Sounds good big up the two leggies
Abrar is really something
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Some incredibly dozy awareness from Brook
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What did Brook do there? Heat? Low blood sugar? What happened?
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Thank God for DRS. I know everyone makes mistakes but that was an awful decision!
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Our resident Yorkshire forum member has resisted the temptation to mention he told some of us Brook was the real deal! :)
Still early but he has settled into the team really well. Maybe the management and the environment we now have has helped him continue to play naturally.
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Waiting for the flood of juniors setting themselves up like Brook and giving the coaches heart palpitations 😂
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Bit brainless that...
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What an awful hack
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Bit brainless that...
Got to question whether he's got it mentally at this level with that shot
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Got to question whether he's got it mentally at this level with that shot
No need to worry, I've heard that he's rated by people who can really spot a good young player 😂
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Another good contribution from Foakes, I’d like to see batting stats between him and Butler at the same amount of tests.
I’ll look it up :)
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I would always say pick your best keeper but I fear when Bairstow is back they're gonna do Foakes dirty. Hope that's not the case, because he's still an excellent bat. Was often at the other end of those big chases last summer, and he's probably the best person in the middle order to bat with the tail...
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We're gonna end up in the same situation we had a few years ago where we are trying to shoehorn in as many batters as we can and have the keeping role given to whomever has some experience in it. Every time I've seen foakes bat he gets runs and he does it in a way which compliments the game situation. Selection against South Africa is gonna be a tough one that's for sure.
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I like Foakes as a keeper and batsmen. He's obviously one of the best glovemen available, but he's not at the level of Bairstow with the bat imo. If it was a straight choice, I'd go with Bairstow everytime personally.
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Our resident Yorkshire forum member has resisted the temptation to mention he told some of us Brook was the real deal! :)
I'm saying nothing! ;)
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I would always say pick your best keeper but I fear when Bairstow is back they're gonna do Foakes dirty. Hope that's not the case, because he's still an excellent bat. Was often at the other end of those big chases last summer, and he's probably the best person in the middle order to bat with the tail...
Bairstow will surely come back in to the side, unless his injury proves to hamper him massively. But I don't think it should be at the expense of Foakes - at least not until we have seen how well Foakes handles the extreme pace of the Australian attack - there is great logic to picking your best keeper, especially when pouching a 50/50 chance off someone like Smith or Labuschagne might mean +/- 150 on the scoreboard, and as has been said, Foakes gives a different aspect to the batting line up.
That said, I'm sure who you do drop...Duckett would seem to be the obvious one, but its not like there is an obvious replacement opener, unless Baz is going to go really leftfield and say, in effect, our best six batsmen come in at two through seven, we'll just start with - for example - Broad and try and wreck the new ball!
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I always say pick your best keeper which is foakes but I think brooks form may have them scratching heads as Hairston has to come back in as one of our best but how do you drop brook now?
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The thing is they don't need another batter in that lineup. Foakes will take chances behind the gloves that neither Bairstow or Pope would dream of
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Bairstow in to open would be a very Bazball selection, wouldn't rule it out.
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Leach could be vulnerable on seaming wickets with an attack of 3 seamers plus Root and Stokes. Leaving a fairly handy 5-8 of Brook, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes. Obviously very dependant on Stokes fitness to bowl
NZ under McCullum quite often went in without a specialist spinner on green wickets.
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Leach could be vulnerable on seaming wickets with an attack of 3 seamers plus Root and Stokes. Leaving a fairly handy 5-8 of Brook, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes. Obviously very dependant on Stokes fitness to bowl
NZ under McCullum quite often went in without a specialist spinner on green wickets.
Livingstone/Jacks at 8 + Root's spin, I imagine.
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Livingstone/Jacks at 8 + Root's spin, I imagine.
That wouldnt solve the problem of getting bairstow, brook and foakes into the same side
And a 2nd part time spinner would be fairly pointless on a green seamer
I think Livingstone and Jacks were very much horses for courses picks. Cant see either getting a game in SA, NZ or at home
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The thing is they don't need another batter in that lineup. Foakes will take chances behind the gloves that neither Bairstow or Pope would dream of
Have you forgot how good Bairstow was this summer?! 😆
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Short memories
Bairstow gets in the side and brook stays in
Should not drop foakes
Duckett has to go
Bairstow could open although not sure he wants too versus Aussies
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Brook and Baistow have to play in the same side when fit and Foakes is the one to make way. In spinning conditions, foakes is a useful batsman and his keeping becomes more important but he is weak against quick bowling and a specialist keeper is a luxury sides can't afford to carry
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So what happens when catches are not taken or dropped or not attempted against the best batsman
Who’s going to make up them runs …
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I mean these problems are a luxury considering quite how terrible the England test side was only a few months ago.
I think many of us felt that the cupboard was pretty bare... Now look at us!
I'll take a Bairstow/Brook/Foakes debate over a 'who the hell can possibly open for England' debate with murmurs of an Alastair Cook recall.
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None of it solves the opener issue, as not sure Duckett was a long term option. Probably more a choice for this tour, as he's a good player of spin. Unless you open with Bairstow or Brook, but not sure thats the way I'd see it. I'd still find a dedicated opener and give the gloves to Bairstow.
The side for English conditions could look like this though if they want to keep Foakes and get Bairstow back in...
Crawley
Brook
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Wood/Leach
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
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Feel like Duckett is going to get a fairly long rope; he's very much the kind of player that represents how Stokes and McCullum go about it. Think for the most part this series he's done quite well
On that note it feels inevitable that they are to carry on backing Crawley
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Considering Bairstows previous unhappiness at not having a settled role in the side I think you'd be quite brave and fairly stupid to tell him he will now be opening after the year he's just had in the middle order.
Would like to see Duckett get a go in more familiar conditions as I feel it is quite harsh to rule someone out before they even had a go at something. He opens for Notts and got his runs there against the Duke ball. And has scored more runs than Crawley on this tour.
However I think if they do sacrifice an opener then Crawley will always be the one to survive under this management. Friends at the top.
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There is another point here - now that we have FINALLY found out that Jonny, at 5, knowing that he is first name on the teamsheet, is an absolute legend...why would anyone want to give him a different role?
Particularly one that wrecks a tall blokes knees, even more particularly after a protruding compound fracture?
Foakes is as good a keeper as I have seen - and I am old enough that I saw Bob Taylor in his later years and Jack Russell. Unless he is so hopelessly exposed by extreme pace that he becomes a tail ender, which is not likely, he should be in the side.
Ony issue is how to get six guys in to five slots.
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We seem to have been catapulted into an era where the Captain and management do what they say,explain they are prepared to lose to win and back players like Jack Leach and Crawley. And I think they will continue to do that, they said Foakes is in their long term plans and is the best keeper in the world. Aside from that he has scored valuable runs.
It’s virtually impossible to imagine JB going back to open having been shoved all over the place and not having the defence to bat in the top three.
More likely might be Pope to move up maybe or Brook-a tough ask but if another opener would be picked exactly who would it be…
More likely is a seam dominated Ashes for both teams and perhaps one or two tests a spinner is needed.
Jacks in the Mo Ali role could also be an option at home.
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Stick pope with Crawley and leave brook where he is
Root goes 3 and brook 4
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The abv wasn't my side, it was how i thought they'd maybe go. Duckett has done well, but was he more a pick for this tour? I can't disagree he deserves a go and I know Bairstow for whatever reason isn't a CBF favourite, but he has to get in somewhere, as does Brook. Both imo are better players than Duckett but are either openers, that's the issue i suppose. Good problems to have.
Bairstow or Brook at five? I'm good with either, that's why personally if fit Bairstow would be my keeper at 7. Or even 6 with Stokes at 7. His keeping is good enough imo and it gives more flexibility to the side with the bowling.
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I would not be surprised to se butler back in side soon as batsman and keeper
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I would not be surprised to se butler back in side soon as batsman and keeper
Where will he bat? 13?
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Duh
It takes one or two injuries and he’s back in ..
Jeez
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Duh
It takes one or two injuries and he’s back in ..
Jeez
Considering he is white ball skipper and series now overlap I would suggest we have seen the last of Butler in whites for a while if not forever.
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Totally agree, Butler has had loads of chances and will not be back.
As others have said we seem to have gone from who is good enough to play to we cannot get everyone in within a six month period.
Besides as a few of us have said in test match games Butler for Foakes as a batsman keeper does not improve the side. That’s without keeping in the equation.
I cannot see JB being asked to keep again either.
If everyone is fit it looks hard to get 11 in, which is quite something in under a year.
Slightly off subject but there is only one player not flourishing under the new regime and that is….Root.
Maybe there is some hangover from the Captaincy, might take a bit longer for him.
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Totally agree, Butler has had loads of chances and will not be back.
As others have said we seem to have gone from who is good enough to play to we cannot get everyone in within a six month period.
Besides as a few of us have said in test match games Butler for Foakes as a batsman keeper does not improve the side. That’s without keeping in the equation.
I cannot see JB being asked to keep again either.
If everyone is fit it looks hard to get 11 in, which is quite something in under a year.
Slightly off subject but there is only one player not flourishing under the new regime and that is….Root.
Maybe there is some hangover from the Captaincy, might take a bit longer for him.
Think he's averaging 52.85 under Stokes, more than he did under Cook or when he was captain himself.
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Didn't Root get 3 tons in 4 games in the summer under McCullum? One ropey tour doesn't mean he's not a fit for Bazball.
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Yes very true he did start very well and one light tour does not make him less of a player.
Just looking at the way he has been playing I just wonder if there is any hangover from not being Captain
I guess we are used to him being our best on every tour
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Id love to not flourish and average 52.
Think the rest of the team has been doing so well that Root has kind of not been noticed. When he was the only bat performing it was very apparent he was head and shoulders above.
Ive been impressed with his bowling in the last 18 months or so, always seems to be tricky to face as a part timer
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Root hasn’t scored a ton in this series and therefore can’t play Bazball.
Let’s replace him with Vince shall we until Bairstow is fit.
Deary me. I’m not sure if Duckett was just picked as a horses for courses. I think they like him and he’s looked international quality during the T20’s and again during this series. We still have an opening bat who has played 30 tests and averages under 30…
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Yes very true he did start very well and one light tour does not make him less of a player.
Just looking at the way he has been playing I just wonder if there is any hangover from not being Captain
I guess we are used to him being our best on every tour
I'd say he'd almost been reborn since giving up the captaincy. He looked class again last summer and has had a 70 odd from memory this tour too from his 5 knocks. Not sure I'm seeing what you are mate.
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Think there's a fair point that because other bats have contributed Root hasn't stood out as he usually does. Still very much a key component of the side but it maybe doesn't hurt that he's not having to do it himself in terms of his longevity.
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Think there's a fair point that because other bats have contributed Root hasn't stood out as he usually does. Still very much a key component of the side but it maybe doesn't hurt that he's not having to do it himself in terms of his longevity.
Yes totally. These games are on very batting friendly tracks but we have seen others scoring the bulk of the runs
Agree in the long term it can only be good for Root and the side.
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I think it's absolutely brilliant that we don't have to rely on root to be the only one in double figures!
What a test series this has been so far.
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Leachy!
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Leachy!
It was a decent post mate and nice too hear his thoughts, but lets not get carried away! 😆
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Rehan with some absolute filth, but as the old saying goes, haha
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Follows up with a cracker
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Rehan !!!!
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Lol 4 wickets first game and still way to go and he’s got top batsman
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At some point soon In tests he will bat and put a great innings together too
He’s only 18
Glad lads done well as I thought he would
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Really poor from Jack Leach again today, surely a matter of time until he is justifiably dropped? 😂
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18 months he will be gone Rehan taking over :)
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Rehan takes 5 wow
Be a man jumbo and say he’s done amazing
He’s out bowled leach this test and what a future star !
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Would like some feedback from cbF members on Rehan now .. after his fifer … don’t all go quiet now
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Joins Will Jacks in taking a five for on debut this tour. Great work by the young lad, looks a good prospect.
Must be a proud moment for you @Thamesvalley after seeing his potential early and unearthing a gem?! 😆
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Very good but having watched the u19 world cup last year I already knew he was decent.
Also keep an eye out for Fateh Singh from notts, very accurate left arm spinner could be a like for like replacement for leach in a few years.
I think this was the right time to give him a debut. As little pressure as possible for a debut and 2 other spinners to bowl overs if he was to get a bit of tap.
So you have to say good selection when many suggested it was a bad one
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Joins Will Jacks in taking a five for on debut this tour. Great work by the young lad, looks a good prospect.
Must be a proud moment for you @Thamesvalley after seeing his potential early and unearthing a gem?! 😆
I wonder when was the last time two England spinners took 5 on debut in the same series? Perhaps never
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Will check out Jacks more and for sure will say well done
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Some approach from England here!
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Rehan takes 5 wow
Be a man jumbo and say he’s done amazing
He’s out bowled leach this test and what a future star !
I never criticised Ahmed, think you'll find I actually said he was very promising. He's certainly been very impressive with the ball and long may it continue.
Criticism was purely for your unfounded comments on Leach, who has once again shown his quality and value to England.
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See people saying one for the other as in spinners they’re different if you haven’t worked it out yet not just in terms of spinning the ball but in their job role. It a bit like a central midfielder many different types but as per people knoock one when the other is in the limelight…..
Good to be back see nothing much has gone on in the last 18 months !!!!
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Rehan takes 5 wow
Be a man jumbo and say he’s done amazing
He’s out bowled leach this test and what a future star !
We are allowed to have two good spinners you know, Leach has bowled very well this test and this tour in general. There is no need to put someone else down to compliment another.
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Bringing on the new Nighthawk, how can anyone not love this England team right now?
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I did enjoy seeing him in at first drop; go out and have some bloody fun
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Inside out drive by rehan shot !
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And he’s gone rubbish shot .
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And he’s gone rubbish shot .
That's that then. He's not mentally tough enough after all!
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I will presume you’re joking m
He’s 18 !
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😉 I’m good at picking stars
Picked a few at the club level
You can see it on the mental side which one has got it and which hasn’t
Of course rehan has a long way to go and there will be many down periods
But stokes will back him
I was joking mate, just referencing your observations regarding mentality. Trying to keep the forum light hearted!
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I thought so you were joking :)
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That's that then. He's not mentally tough enough after all!
Also, let's get rid of the likes of Leicestershire.
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Also, let's get rid of the likes of Leicestershire.
Leicestershire took him from the Nottinghshire set up so a little wide of the mark
https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/other-sport/teenager-billed-one-brightest-prospects-759687 (https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/other-sport/teenager-billed-one-brightest-prospects-759687)
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How? He's a Leicestershire player.
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Also, let's get rid of the likes of Leicestershire.
Sorry mate, not with you?
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Sorry mate, not with you?
Nevermind. ;)
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As a leggie that dreamed of being England's Shane Warne as a kid - (as has every young English leggie for the last 30 years), it is just so, so good to see a young kid start to fulfill that dream. There will be ups and downs along the way of course, but he looks pretty decent to me. I hope he has an excellent, long career in the England test side. Good luck, kid!
(Also wish I was even 5% as good as him :D)
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I'd probably take 3%! Hopefully he keeps progressing, as you say he could be very good and sounds like he's working hard to develop further. Think a leggie under Stokes captaincy could flourish.
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Ppl are genuinely shocked when I tell them he’s only played 3 first class games …
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Ppl are genuinely shocked when I tell them he’s only played 3 first class games …
Probably the same people who want to get rid of county cricket because it's rubbish.
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Must say it did surprise me why ppl here were surprised he would be picked
Perfect time to pick him and stokes is Best Man to lead him
It’s pretty obvious the direction of the England team
There are no critical voices if you don’t do well batting or bowling
It’s just full steam ahead positivity
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Is it that shocking that people were surprised? The guy is the youngest least experienced debutant in about 140 years! Hardly a predictable pick...
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I don't remember anyone saying "pick Rehan Ahmed"!
Indeed, I don't think many on here were aware that he had been added to the touring party.
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If you don’t even know who’s gone to Pakistan or is available how are you ever going to understand or appreciate picking him might be the right moment
Seems to me some of you have your favourites and that’s that
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Where are you getting the "favourites" bit from?
I think people were rightly surprised that a young lad, even with the caveat of his immense promise, was selected so early in his career and at such a young age.
To say that he was expected to play at the outset of the tour would be stretching credulity.
Haven't seen anyone on here wishing him ill or expressing anything other than happiness and excitement at his success.
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Great series, there's not been many times an England test side has been as exciting to watch as this.
The pressure on selection is phenomenal now too, mirrors how competitive it's been in the white ball teams which can only be a good sign. Someone will always get injured, but the competition for bowling spots in particular is impressive. Can't wait to see Jofra play under Stokes' captaincy, but who are you leaving out to get him back in? Does Broad get back in? Which spinner do you pick for NZ? And that's even before you try and squeeze 8 guys into the top 7. The new selection committee will be living in interesting times for sure.
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It’s great we picked a young leg spinner and it’s as good an overseas series win as I can remember.
Lots of comment on here about Ahmed and he has been great in his first game.
Very little about Jacks performance so I think the favourites comment is completely the wrong way round.
Or Jack Leach’s performance on tour which has been excellent.
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A remarkable turnaround for this team. Everyone jibing with the 'just try playing this way overseas' truly have egg on their faces
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Ben Stokes is proving to be the most astonishing captain. His tactics, field placements, bowling changes, team selection. These are all things Eng have got consistently wrong over the last nearly 10 years. Just amazing.
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Totally agree Buzz
If someone had suggested what Stokes is actually doing
They would have been shot down but it shows some sportsman are just genius and just some just average
Club level wise and captaincy wise
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I see that Stokes has also been nominated for Sports Personality of the Year for a 2nd time. If it weren't for the England womens football team having the year they did he wouldn't be a bad shout to win it again
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If you don’t even know who’s gone to Pakistan or is available how are you ever going to understand or appreciate picking him might be the right moment
Seems to me some of you have your favourites and that’s that
I knew he was there. But I watched a discussion about needing "another bowler who turns it away from the right hander" without Ahmed even being mentioned. Can't remember if you were part of it.
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I think he's in with a real chance, Harry Kane isn't going to be winning it that's for sure.
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This argument is essentially the same one I often make that if you don't watch county cricket how can you know who the best players in the country are.
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From what I have read from some users the actual reality of what stokes and macallum are thinking is a far away from what some forum users want and think is going on ..
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From what I have read from some users the actual reality of what stokes and macallum are thinking is a far away from what some forum users want and think is going on ..
Any context?
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From what I have read from some users the actual reality of what stokes and macallum are thinking is a far away from what some forum users want and think is going on ..
You don’t half post some pish!
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Same to you as well if you are going to have that attitude
If you don’t like it ignore it
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From what I have read from some users the actual reality of what stokes and macallum are thinking is a far away from what some forum users want and think is going on ..
Care to explain what you mean by that?
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Same to you as well if you are going to have that attitude
If you don’t like it ignore it
You’ve spouted some delusional nonsense from day one, but it’s gotten even more extreme in recent days, you all but claimed to have discovered Rehan Ahmed!
If you refrain from posting non stop in nearly every thread than I shall endeavour to do so.
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What total nonsense and it’s individuals like you who can’t stand other peoples views
It’s only your own voice you like hearing and anyone else can’t say a word
It’s the reason why cricket in uk is has so many issues as you think you know best
Actually you don’t so keep your horrid disgusting aggression in your own home and to yourself
I’m not here to take abuse from you
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1. I come here precisely to read others opinions, that’s the point in a forum.
2. See above
3. I don’t live in the U.K.
4. Good, don’t let the door hit your (No Swearing Please) on the way out.
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Not visiting then ..
Anyway Iv responded to your message on here
For me that’s that . If you want to continue you can i won’t be responding
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I’m not going anywhere I have as much right to express my views as anyone here
Looks like you deleted your message you posted a minute ago about leaving … hmmm
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What total nonsense and it’s individuals like you who can’t stand other peoples views
It’s only your own voice you like hearing and anyone else can’t say a word
It’s the reason why cricket in uk is has so many issues as you think you know best
Actually you don’t so keep your horrid disgusting aggression in your own home and to yourself
I’m not here to take abuse from you
If I'm totally honest here, the only real aggression I see here is coming from yourself. Thinking someone is spouting nonsense is hardly aggressive, it's a difference of opinion. Try thinking critically rather than taking the victim mentality route when someone doesn't say something that agrees with your thinking (Or lack thereof). I also highly highly doubt any of us has a proper idea of how Stokes and McCullum think - all I know is that it's working so far!
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Considering you’re all mates and know each other on other forums
Chad stop trying to come in and help your mate
Pretty sad you have to do that …
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I’m not going anywhere I have as much right to express my views as anyone here
Looks like you deleted your message you posted a minute ago about leaving … hmmm
And other people have the right to call you out on your mindless drivel
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Considering you’re all mates and know each other on other forums
Chad stop trying to come in and help your mate
Pretty sad you have to do that …
Anyone got a gif of Chris Gayle's "don't blush baby" interview 😂
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Jumbo is here oh dear
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Considering you’re all mates and know each other on other forums
Chad stop trying to come in and help your mate
Pretty sad you have to do that …
Merely pointing out facts, not sure why you think he needs defending or help? I'm posting for my own benefit - fact is, I have to read this drivel too, and I really rather not have to. 🤷♂️
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Don’t no one forcing you too
It’s not your forum to say who can post their views or not
Typical usual antics stopping anyone else having a view . Just because you buy a million bats to put in cupboard doesn’t makes your view any more powerful
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Back on topic, do we reckon Rehan has done enough to stay in the squad/side for the NZ tests? Phenomenal debut but very different conditions and the seam compliment should hopefully be back to full strength.
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Better watch out @Chad your "bat buying for CBF influence" conspiracy has been unveiled 🤣
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Let’s not make things so personal, it’s only a cricket forum. Jeez…
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Let’s not make things so personal, it’s only a cricket forum. Jeez…
@golders - who said you could post? Dictator Chad with his million bats in a closet certainly didn't give you permission to - did you not know my views are x times more powerful than yours? x being the number of bats in the closet.
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Back on topic, do we reckon Rehan has done enough to stay in the squad/side for the NZ tests? Phenomenal debut but very different conditions and the seam compliment should hopefully be back to full strength.
Back on topic indeed. No definatley not.Leach is our number one spinner and NZ conditions are much like ours, so nothing in it for him.
I expect England to monitor Rehan thru our season with a tour to India next year. He may not bowl that many overs during our summer.
This type of bowler is where you might think a central contract could pull him out of the Championship and play overseas.
It’s been mooted before not sure if it’s actually happened during our summer.
Interested to see if Duckett goes to NZ, he’s done enough I think and Bairstow looks unlikely to make the trip
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Back on topic, do we reckon Rehan has done enough to stay in the squad/side for the NZ tests? Phenomenal debut but very different conditions and the seam compliment should hopefully be back to full strength.
Probably not. It’d be very harsh on Leach, but the option of a spinner who can bat 7/8 will definitely tempt them.
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I think Bairstow is all but confirmed unavailable by their medical staff. I'd like to see Duckett given a crack, looks far more assured in his method than Crawley.
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Probably not. It’d be very harsh on Leach, but the option of a spinner who can bat 7/8 will definitely tempt them.
In spinning conditions I can see it for sure, I just think in NZ I'd have SCurran at 8 to be the 3/4 seamer.
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NZ last year were going in with Boult, Southee, Jamieson, Wagner and De Grandhomme.
So there may be a scenario where Leach might not even get a game. The coach should know the pitches well which is handy!
I dont see any harm in Rehan travelling with the squad if theres no lions cricket anywhere. Probably do him more good than netting in the east midlands
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That's a fair point, although he's also by all accounts a handy white ball player so he could also benefit from a stint in a franchise league somewhere. Definitely a potential multiformat player there.
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He will look to play franchises globally to get more experience alongside
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@golders - who said you could post? Dictator Chad with his million bats in a closet certainly didn't give you permission to - did you not know my views are x times more powerful than yours? x being the number of bats in the closet.
Finally you’re being your authentic self. Finally you’ve stopped hiding in your already chocca closet.Proud of you, Gazillion bats Chadster
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I think Bairstow is all but confirmed unavailable by their medical staff. I'd like to see Duckett given a crack, looks far more assured in his method than Crawley.
Horses for courses pick or not they can’t be dropping him after the series he’s had.
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What a set of performances from the whole squad. Debutants who could, performed well across the series, not counting livingstone with an injury to be honest. But players who came in, just continued to perform which is great to see. I liked Foakes standard of keeping when he played that final game, it certainly gave off some more confidence.
I absolutely love this brand of cricket we’re creating my days are long gone, as in very long gone and I know this but even I want to play for England again. It must be an amazing environment to be in at the moment. Even more so than the dominant years around ‘10,’11.
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As good as a debut it was from Ahmed, he's still developing and don't see him being needed in NZ. Tbh, neither will Leach most likely. Not often in England's we'd need two full time spinners either. If it's a straight choice, then historically captains have gone with more control rather than a leggie who can leak runs a bit more. Not sure Stokes would tho!
In NZ I'd expect 4 seamers. Or 3 and Stokes if fit to bowl, with either Livingstone or Jacks offering part time spin maybe? Nice to have options tho!
Oh and @Chad, how bigs your bleeding cupboard?!
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Two things:
I hope Rehan doesn’t spend too much time with a white ball in his hand, feel it will a waste of a talent that could be playing test cricket!
And is AJ2014 back?
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Two things:
I hope Rehan doesn’t spend too much time with a white ball in his hand, feel it will a waste of a talent that could be playing test cricket!
Agreed!
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Couple of things ....
1. Rehan won't go to NZ, no point in him carrying drinks with no chance of playing. Interesting though is that the IPL auction is on Friday and his base price is only 40 Lakh.
2. I think it largely depends on the size of squad they take to NZ. I think a Broad / Anderson swap is possible. I expect the same batting unit to be picked with Jennings to be the spare batter, they need to see if Duckett can cope with the moving ball before the Ashes.
3. Jacks and/or Livingstone are the ones to possibly be changed for seam bowling options as the simply is no need for 3 spin bowling options in NZ (when you have Root as well).
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Rehan or Jacks must be in with a small chance of playing in NZ, given the Kiwis often don't play a spinner and I think we didn't in any of the tests last time we were there it would make sense to have someone who can offer some proper batting - Santner gets tests for NZ in that role pretty regularly. Don't see it happening given how strongly Stokes has backed Leach though. Could definitely see it happening in future once those two are more settled into internationals given how few overs spinners actually bowl in a lot of our tests.
Anyone seen any news on when the NZ squad will come out? Assume it'll be very soon, and probably broadly the same but one of Rehan/Jacks drops out of the 15 with Broad back in and Potts possibly in for Overton.
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I really liked this article about the team and tour. I only followed through TMS and highlights, but it’s great to see what was going on behind the scenes a little.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-in-pakistan-2022-england-s-vibes-of-revival-land-their-greatest-glory-yet-1350532 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-in-pakistan-2022-england-s-vibes-of-revival-land-their-greatest-glory-yet-1350532)
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I expect England to monitor Rehan thru our season with a tour to India next year. He may not bowl that many overs during our summer.
You know what, I think he'll do okay - the fact that he is at a smaller county with a smaller playing squad will help with that, as will the fact that he is heading toward being a proper all rounder, at least a division 2 level. But the real clincher will be his marketability!
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Looking at New Zealand, it will probably be more of the same - I fancy Jacks will go, just because they will want the option of repeating what they did in the second test here to get an extra bowling option in.
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Out: Jennings, Livingstone, Wood, Overton, Ahmed.
In: Lawrence, Broad, Potts, Stone.
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Great opportunity for Duckett to nail his spot for the Ashes with no spare opener. I’m excited about him tbh and he has clearly really impressed management, selectors