Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: cd0070 on May 02, 2010, 01:54:28 PM
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Find myself committing to the line very early, especially early in the innings when im trying to get my eye in..
I open and most of the time I stand outside by a few inches, wondering if going back on the backfoot would work..
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No matter what the swing I try to get across my stumps and forward, if the keeper's back the I'll come down the wicket a yard or so to counteract the swing either way
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either what colesy said or i play it off the back foot, and as late as i can, as much as possible
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thanks, i want to come down the pitch but usually not that confident in the first few balls..
Will try that in the nets.
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watch the ball is the key as new ball can do all sorts i tend to just watch it and try to play it as late as dont like being on backfoot too much as brings lbw etc into play more
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Had a word with one of our pro players and he said take the ball as early as possible and close down the angle and amount of movement on the ball and if possible take it early as in a half volley. But i suppose this helps only if you have lightening fast reactions but he told me its what works for him!!
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Watch the ball. I know that sounds simple but most people just watch the "area" that they think the ball is coming from. If you actually watch the ball in the bowlers hand it makes a huge difference.
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Had a word with one of our pro players and he said take the ball as early as possible and close down the angle and amount of movement on the ball and if possible take it early as in a half volley. But i suppose this helps only if you have lightening fast reactions but he told me its what works for him!!
My Middlsex coachs told me the opposite, think of all the great players of swing, they all played it very late under ther eyes, conteracting it is the worst thing you can do. Getting in a big bit off footwork, the it doing more than you think, having no were to go and suddenly ur in sh*t loads of trouble.
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Agree Frank, play the ball as late as possible, under your nose.
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Watch the ball. I know that sounds simple but most people just watch the "area" that they think the ball is coming from. If you actually watch the ball in the bowlers hand it makes a huge difference.
I do watch it out of the hand.. I get behind the line as it moves a bit in the air.. More I think about it I watch the area, not the ball once it pitches..
Wondering if over thinking this is a bad idea also?? I have played this ball in my head about 200 times since yesterday....
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over thinking and over analysing is bad let your instincts guide you well thats what i do try different things and see what suits you opening up is never easy although my skipper thinks its the easiest place to bat as he bats at 9 lol
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Played and opened today, and found myself stuck in the first few balls against some outswingers, on a good length, playing and missing, and getting chirp for it. Then played late and started dabbing it down to third man and punching through covers and put away the bad balls, worked beautifully.
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over thinking and over analysing is bad let your instincts guide you well thats what i do try different things and see what suits you opening up is never easy although my skipper thinks its the easiest place to bat as he bats at 9 lol
I hear you, same with my captain thinks you just have to hit it over the fielders and it should be a four.. lol he bats 10..
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Here are my thoughts on this – I would have replied sooner, but I have been out of range of the forum (some people may be grateful of that!)
Firstly – I have seen a load of people in the past say just go a play your shots – if one has you name on so be it. This is nonsense. You just need a plan. From above, I can see that niceonechoppy made a plan and it worked... this makes the point nicely, I also think his is a really good plan for playing away swing bowlers. Playing the ball late is a good move, but what I believe is that is isn’t so much playing it late, as playing the ball under your eyes that matters.
This will help negate the problem many people (myself included) have in planting their front leg and getting pinned.
Remember swing when it happens regardless of what type of swing it is will either be early swing (from the bowlers hand) or the more dangerous late swing. With early swing it is usually easier to play the ball behind square and hit the short or over pitched ball.
Regardless the most important thing is to try and upset the bowlers rhythm – the easiest way of doing this is by running singles and rotating the strike. Bowlers love bowling six balls at the same batsman and trying to set them up – Martin Bicknell was the absolute master at this.
Out swing
Facing good consistent away swing is difficult, when bowled at pace you can find yourself fencing for the ball, which is not a good situation to be in. My view is, early on, to play down the line of the off stump and, especially early on to let the ball go through to the keeper (see comments I have written on this elsewhere on this site http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=4576.0) – the idea is to try to force the bowler to bowl straighter at me which will hopefully give me a freebee to hit through the on side – whilst still rotating the strike and following the comments above. If this isn’t working – the next option is the Matty Hayden option of coming down the track at the bowler to intimidate him. I try to do this a lot especially against a medium bowler and look to hit him through the line before it swings. Or looking for the “late cut” to use the pace of the ball.
The key to this is to not over commit and over attack too early. The ball will only swing for a bit and you need to weather the storm in the short term until the bowler tires.
In swing
This is a different challenge – here I try to open my stance slightly and work hard to get outside the line of off stump - either with a strong stride (different from a big stride which can cause you to lose your balance) or a slight trigger across the crease. This will open up the leg side for me to hit with the swing of the ball. The danger of this is that you move to far and lose your leg stump – so work hard on the nets on playing the ball aiming through Mid On and watching the ball fly through mid wicket for runs!
A bit of both
Occasionally, although fortunately not too frequently, you get a bowler who swings it both ways at will (or worse at pace!) if this is the case work out which one is going to be the most dangerous for you. For me it is in swing – so I play the bowling as if every ball is an in swinger and if it moves away from me I either let it go, or drop it a gap to get to the other end. If you are better a playing in swing and struggle against the ball moving away from you, wait for in ducker and knock it in a gap, whilst concentrating on protecting your off stump.
The crucial thing is to have decisive foot work, but not to over commit and to try not to plant your front foot.
Going back to the original question: Find myself committing to the line very early, especially early in the innings when im trying to get my eye in..
I open and most of the time I stand outside by a few inches, wondering if going back on the backfoot would work..
Over committing early on is an easy mistake – i suspect you may be trying to play the ball before it is bowled, rather than waiting and trusting your instincts. In this case following Bulldog’s advice and clearing you mind and just concentrating on watching the ball and doing nothing else will really help.
I think looking to coming forward to be positive to the bowling is important – if you play back, you may be vulnerable to the in swinger. Remember all swing requires the bowler to pitch the ball up to you, so you wont get to play back much and it may not help you. On the plus side, because of this you will get balls to hit and work through for singles.
I hope this helps...
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I have also just seen this from Aakash Chopra - he has some useful thoughts... http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/449855.html
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you have taught me more in the time it took to read this than i have learnt in the last 5 years from coaches lol
btw you have too much time on your hands ;)
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Thanks
on the other point...possibly - alternatively I have been thinking about what to say for a few days during the rain soaked long weekend, ran it past my 5 month old who added his tips (he likes to keep it simple) and I then typed it up in 5 mins... :D
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aah i see so really:
"I hope this helps..." this was your work while your five year old kept it simple :D
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aah i see so really:
"I hope this helps..." this was your work while your five year old kept it simple :D
pretty much :) - except he is 5 months old!! He has a grade 1+++++ gm bat though (probably nurtured in afganistan or somewhere!) ;)
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damn it! i realised i put 5 years then i thought i changed it!
when he wants a new one, tel him that it has to last one year + a year for each +, just stick a bit extra handle on each year and he'll have a mongoose type thing by the time hes 6 ;)
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Genius, this will save me a fortune! :D
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thank you.. i think i need to trust my skills and reaction more and not double guess myself in thinking if i can play swing or not..
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Further to this - if any of you saw the high lights of Jimmy Anderson bowling yesterday, there are only 2 ways to play and survive against a spell like that.
1. To be Don Bradman
2. To not be anywhere near good enough to hit the ball and hope you don't get bowled or hit on the pads in front.
The good news is that there is only one Jimmy and he is pretty much the only person in the world who can bowl like that. If he had been bowling against any other test playing nation yesterday, they would have been all out for 70 with Jimmy getting 7 for.
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back and across trigger movement
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Watch the ball. I know that sounds simple but most people just watch the "area" that they think the ball is coming from. If you actually watch the ball in the bowlers hand it makes a huge difference.
Deffo best bit of advice I've ever heard but must players just say watch the ball if you actually fix and stare your eyes at it and block everything out you will score runs!
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On this highlights programme from Day 2 of the test match there are two interesting bits on playing swing bowling...
http://www.five.tv/programmes/sport/cricket-on-five/88125
The first is from Sir Geoff. He is talking about "Getting to the pitch of the ball" and playing the ball early and to be honest, i thought he was talking total tripe. It is not at all how he would have played - he would have been getting his head over the ball, not massively overstriding.
The second is analysis from Simon Hughes (about 15 mins in) and is far more use, comparing how an out of sorts KP was trying to play and how an in form Trott was playing. The first thing is that Hughes talks about playing the ball close to the body and as late as possible (actually he effectively says the total opposite to Boycott) - however the most interesting stat was the hawkeye image of where the two players were playing the ball - you have to allow for the fact that KP is 6ft 3 and will have a bigger reach than Trott who is about 6ft.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/KPvsJT.jpg)
i suspect this will be a precurser to Trott getting 0 today and KP seeing us home - but regardless - Trott, who is a seriously maligned player has really good technique for playing the moving ball.
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i think you're in the wrong profession.
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I think you may be right, but I have a mortage to pay and the city pays more than coaching cricket (unless you have a test career behind you) :(
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the next best thing to a masterclass with me... (!)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/competition/2010/aug/05/win-a-batting-masterclass
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i got a major working over yesterday by a good outswing bowler. i was looking to flick it off my legs as it whipped back across to off stump, making me look like a moron! - playing some 'interesting' shots to keep the ball out
in the end i was clean bowled by a delivery which pitch on leg and hit my off stump... beaten!!
very difficult since the keeper was up to the stumps, despite the bowler having a fair amount of pace, something i need to look at over the winter i think
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Reading the Telegraph today, Simon Hughes offers the below interesting comment...
Yousuf, who before Thursday had made only one visit to the crease in five months, confounded the general belief that batsmen need regular match practice.
In fact if you have a technique as sound as his, you have no need of frequent innings. It is based around an exceptional stillness at the crease, with none of the faddy 'trigger' movements modern batsmen so favour, superb judgment of the length of the delivery and an ability to play the ball so late at times it is almost past him.
There is no premeditation about his batting. His whole game plan is centred on reflex and instinct, coupled with an insatiable desire to make runs, an attitude that brought him a world record 1,788 in 2006. His concentration is unbreakable.
To add to this a bit further, all the players who have done well in the current test series, (Trott, Prior, Azhar, to some extent Morgan and now MoYo) all show wonderful stillness at the crease. While those who have failed (to name a few, Cook, Pietersen, Collingwood, most of the Pak batsmem) have techniques which involve way too much movement - which implies that the most important thing about batting especially against the moving ball, after watching the ball, is having a very level eyes from the moment of delivery, through the impact of the shot.
I guarentee that for any batsman, most of the time when you get out you have taken your eye off the ball either trying to hit the ball to hard, or because your head was moving when the ball was bowled and you weren't able to pick up the line and length of the ball early enough.
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I havn't read this piece but I will now as it goes along with what I have always thought about trigger movements.
The best batsmenover the course of history have stood still and whilst there are always exceptions to rules on the whole top class batsman are still at the crease and do not use a trigger movement.
I realise that Duncan Fletcher was a massive fan and that for some players they do work, but as a child I was always told to keep movement to a minimum and that the less things that moved the lest things there were to go wrong. Look at cook he has so much going on with his technique at the moment he has to watch it to know if it is doing the correct thing.
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Poor old Cookie - he is watching his technique rather than the ball!!
Duncan Fletcher's obsession was the forward press against a spinner, but this is done well before the ball is bowled to help a batsman's balance and to stop them lunging at the ball, which is slightly different from a trigger movement which is there to help get a batsman's feet moving against really quick bowling - given that allmost all club players don't ever face a quick bowler, standing still is imperative.
A link to the article mentioned above is here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/7955177/England-v-Pakistan-Mohammed-Yousuf-delivers-masterclass-to-four-pronged-attack.html
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Once again, Aakash Chopra (on Cricinfo) has come up with a gem of an article on batting...
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/474352.html
Reading the bowler
Keep an eye on the point of release, the wrist, the position of the seam and more
Aakash Chopra
August 26, 2010
The replay comes up in slo-mo for us to get a closer look: Brett Lee runs in and bowls a short-pitched delivery at 150kph. Sachin Tendulkar seems to have all the time in the world to get into the right position - he goes back and across and plays it right under his eyes. The pace at which the TV camera reruns it makes it look a cakewalk, an everyday shot, but the batsman gets only a fraction of a second to judge, decide and execute. What is it that enables the likes of Sachin to tweak their responses and plan their shots?
Let me break it down further for you. At the point of release a batsman must ascertain the line and the length of the delivery, must weigh his options with regards to his response (attacking or defensive) and then move quickly to get his body into the right position to execute the option chosen. One of the principles of batting is to be prompt and to be in a position to receive the ball, as against arriving at the same time as the ball, because that is invariably too late. The quicker the bowler, the less time you have in hand to act. If the batsman fails to get his calculations right in time, he is most likely doomed. Unlike against slower bowlers, with whom you may have a second chance.
Judging the length and line
If judging the length and line early makes batting relatively more easy and effective, failure to do so puts the batsman at a disadvantage.
To judge the length, the batsman must watch the point of release of the delivery. The earlier the release, the fuller the ball, which in effect means that if the bowler delivers the ball at the first point of release, it would result in a beamer. Every subsequent delay in release would mean a reduction in the length, with the bouncer being the last point of release. That's the reason every batsman is taught to be ready for the full ball first, because that's the first possibility; if the bowler passes that point of release without delivering, the mind starts sending the body signals to be prepared to go on the back foot.
Batsmen around the world are brought up playing bowlers with high-arm actions and hence their minds are attuned to trying to ascertain the length by looking at the point of release. But if you're up against someone like Lasith Malinga or Shaun Tait, both of whom have slinging, round-arm actions, it's simply not possible to know the length for sure at the time of the delivery, as there is always a doubt about whether the release was early or delayed. The angle at which the arm comes down leaves a lot to the imagination; unfortunately, though, there isn't much time to imagine at their pace.
Another important aspect that influences the ability to judge length is the position of the batsman's head in his stance. Ideally the head should be still and the eyes level to be able to judge the length correctly. If the head is tilted upwards, even slightly, all deliveries might seem short-pitched.
Next comes the line. Batsmen try to keep a close eye on the bowler's wrist at the point of delivery and the position of the wrist with regards to the crease. In the case of a fast bowler, the tilt of the wrist may help send the ball in the direction in the direction it is tilted towards. When Ishant Sharma's wrist tilts towards the on side, you're more or less sure the ball will swing in to the right hander. This isn't foolproof, though, especially when the ball is reverse-swinging. Waqar Younis used to keep the wrist completely upright, or even slightly tilted towards the off side, while making the ball dip in to the batsman.
Wrist position is a good giveaway when it comes to reading spinners, many of whom cock their wrists to bowl topspinners. Similarly, the back of a legspinner's hand will usually face the batsman when he tries to bowl a googly. These variations are subtle but if observed and decoded accurately, they can help the batsman.
Makhaya Ntini's wide-of-the-crease action gave away the angle of his stock deliveries, which came in to the right-hander, while Glenn McGrath's close-to-the-stumps action ensured the ball stayed on a well-defined line around the off stump. An offspinner will usually prefer to come in close to the stumps to bowl the topspinner or floater.
While the wrists and the action will give you clues, keeping a still head in the stance, almost in line with the toes, is vital to your ability to judge line correctly as a batsman. The moment the head starts falling over, the lines get blurred - a problem Rohit Sharma is facing at the moment. Since his head is falling over, he's either chasing balls that should be left alone (in the first ODI against New Zealand) or finding the ball finishing in line with the front pad instead of in line with the downswing of his bat. From there on it's just a matter of when and not if he misses one.
Swing and drift
Batsmen also try to look at the way the bowler has gripped the ball, with regards to the position of his fingers and the orientation of the shiny surface. When bowling a slower one McGrath would hold the ball with his index and middle fingers split wide apart; Lee while doing similar would hold the ball deep in his hand. Zaheer Khan often bowls with his fingers across the seam, which tells you to be ready for a straight delivery because the ball won't swing unless the seam is upright.
The shiny surface, if visible, often gives away the direction in which the ball will move in the air. For instance, an offspinner's drift can be read by looking at which way the shiny part of the ball faces. If the ball is swinging conventionally, it will drift into the right-hander if the shiny side is outside, and vice versa. Keeping the shine facing the palm not only takes the ball away in the air, it also makes it skid after pitching, as the ball lands on the shiny side. Obviously, looking at the shine doesn't help much if you're up against the likes of Muralitharan, or someone who prefers to bowl with a scrambled seam.
Leg position
Once the line is deciphered, a batsman will mostly try to keep the front leg outside the line of the ball. For a right-hander the front leg must stay leg side of the ball. If the leg is not in the appropriate position, the bat will never come down straight, and you might end up playing across in front of your pads. Also, keeping the leg outside the line is mandatory to maintain good balance, or else you risk falling over.
There is a good chance, though, that these lines will get blurred when the ball's swinging or spinning too much. Murali and Warne have wreaked havoc because batsmen were never sure of the amount of turn off the surface while facing them. What started out seeming the correct place to plant the front foot often proved incorrect in the end. It's the same when the ball is reverse-swinging. Haven't we seen Waqar and Wasim hit people on the toes umpteen times?
Things are slightly more manageable on the back foot, because not only does the short ball give a little more time to adjust, it also doesn't swing as much.
The role bounce plays
Tall bowlers with high-arm actions, like McGrath, Ambrose, Kumble and so on, tend to generate more bounce than their round-arm, slingy counterparts like Malinga or Ajit Agarkar. While tall bowlers get consistent high bounce, it also often misleads the batsman into playing on the back foot, even to balls that are meant to be played on the front foot; this results in them getting trapped in front. On the other hand, bowlers like Malinga and Agarkar pose a different kind of threat - you can never trust the bounce with them. Playing horizontal bat shots and ducking - for both of which you need to be able to trust the bounce - are difficult while facing these bowlers. You have to tell yourself to be on the front foot, even if the length and pace are pushing you back, and also to play with a vertical bat as much as possible, to make up for the lack of bounce.
Then there's the rare breed of freakish actions, which take a while to make sense of. Remember Paul Adams and how he took the world by storm initially? He was bowling normal chinamen and wrong'uns but batsmen were hopelessly caught in the flurry of limbs. Such actions are a batsman's nightmare when you're up against them for the first time. Your brain will eventually find ways to look for certain nuances to decode the mystery. That's why it's important for these bowlers to keep evolving, because once the novelty wears off, they become easy pickings.
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I just don't have a clue when the ball is moving around, its a very natural thing to be able to judge it - i dont have it!
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In-swing I am fine with. Away-swing, not a scooby