Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Custom Made => Topic started by: yvk3103 on September 05, 2008, 12:57:34 AM

Title: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 05, 2008, 12:57:34 AM
Basis my (very) early morning discussions with Julian, I though I share this with the forum:

According to Julian bats with 7-10 grains are likely to perform better that those with tighter grains. Allt eh bats he makes for his pro players have 8-9 grains. He grades his willow based on the tests he performs on the willow with his mallet. Going by his experience their is 90% chance of bats with 7-10 grains will perform well, this % comes down to 70% for bats with 10-14 grains and 50% for bats with higher number of grains. According to Julian, willow with tighter grains is generally inferior grade willow ???

Julian, had a study conducted in AUS/UK, to determine whether presence of heartwood improves the performance of the willow. The answer is no.

Much of what Julian said was contrary to what I and many like me thought was indicative of better quality and performing willow. But gess have to take Julian's word for it.... he's the best in this field...

Any comments from our own podshaver...Chris
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Talisman on September 05, 2008, 07:03:56 AM
What would you say if you only had 8/9 grain willow and you needed to sell it, not saying he is wrong as there is no definitive proof that one type of grain and shape is better than another .
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 05, 2008, 11:00:33 AM
Well going by experience, I have found little difference in terms of performance, pick-up and feel between my BAS with 9 grains and my Kookaburra with 12 grains or my Fusions with 10/11 grians.

I too feel that to a large extent the number of grains haveing a direct impact on a bats performance is misleading. I have used a GN with 7 grains and it was cracker of a bat, in fact it performed better than my DF with 12 grains and heartwood.

SO at the end of the day, we have to take the podshavers word on the quality of the willow.

My above post is just based on the discussions with Julian. And like may of us, I have come to believe that a tight graind bat is and will perform better than a broad grain bat. SO this was a learning for me.

At the end of the day it is on the individual buying a bat .... some like slim girls others like slightly fuller girls.... theres no study which can prove the slimmer girls are better behavied and have better social attributes than the fuller ones...

Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: SAF Bats on September 05, 2008, 12:07:11 PM
Older trees are more stable but not as strong as middle-aged trees. Younger trees move more and are not ready to use. Tight grain is what some people prefer, but the grain can be too tight because it will start to lose strength at some point.

As trees grow in one season, they grow faster from spring through summer and more slowly from fall through winter. That is what we see in tree rings. Tighter grain means less space in fast-growing fibre. This space in looser grain is where the moisture stays, which is why tighter grain is more stable than looser grain. Density is also heavier in tighter grain. The increased density means that the wood is stronger. Therefore makes a bat come to life but die's earlier....

Heartwood is just wood that has lost its sap as it moves out through growth therefore brittle it is also denser....

Ok looking at it on density perspective then tighter grains will make for stiffers blade on the outset but it would mean faults develop quickly... It also means, as you probably know, more weight for the same given volume...  Performace of bats is related to a number of things and wood mass in the hitting area is one of them. 

Pressing a tighter grain cleft as opposed to looser grain cleft will be different...

When you write it down you can see where Julian is coming from....
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 05, 2008, 02:49:41 PM
great peice of information. does give some good insights on the willow and grains... but guess this is a newer ending debate.

Evey bat maker has a different perspective and way of evaluating & grading the willow and we will always get newre perspectives and knowledge on this form the podshavers

At the end of the day, the person buying and playing with it has to be satisfied.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 04:22:13 AM
The majority of the Cat's I had a look at today didn't have many grains. Generally ranging from 7 to 11. I don't think I saw one with 15+ or anything.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: E-Unit on September 21, 2008, 05:43:47 AM
what bat do you use tugga?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 06:01:12 AM
Small Mens S.Cat.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: E-Unit on September 21, 2008, 06:58:35 AM
Nice, any pics? :P
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 08:01:53 AM
Coming up ina minute. It has 26mm edges. Weighs 2'6. Nice pick up and it felt good with the mallet. I'm still wondering how many coats of oil to put on it however. The little SC guide that came on the handle says the front should be oiled 6 times. I thought this was a bit much. I used to think 3 was about right.



Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 08:20:36 AM
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/brandonchan/IMG_4913.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/brandonchan/IMG_4914.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/brandonchan/IMG_4912.jpg)
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Howzat on September 21, 2008, 08:57:53 AM
Very nice bat Tugga have to say the stickers are really nice... never seen them before!  Lots of meat in the profile aswell.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 09:18:31 AM
Cheers. It has a few blemishes under the top sticker and it isn't the prettiest piece of willow but it's reasonably big for it's weight and picks up well. Just unsure on the oiling now. Milli say 6. Any batmakers advice?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: E-Unit on September 21, 2008, 09:36:49 AM
Go with 3 at least, but are you planning on putting a scuff sheet on?

Looks great mate really thinking about saving up for one, what did you use before this?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tugga on September 21, 2008, 09:46:12 AM
Nah I'm not putting on a scuff sheet. If I was I'd probably only put 1 coat on, otherwise it wouldn't stick. I'll stick with 3 light coats for now. 6 seems abit extreme.

Another one? Haha Lavers, Impalas, XXX3's and now Screaming Cat. It's a good bat, can't wait to use it in the middle. Used the old Puma Classic before this.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: stevie on September 21, 2008, 09:46:39 AM
Looks good, i like the sticker's.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 21, 2008, 09:21:40 PM
The bat seems great.

I would be getting mine shortly (has already been made and delivered to my friend in Melbourne).

The shape and profile created by Julian is a hybrid between A series 1 and series 2. As the shape and prifile turned put to be totally new, Julian signed the bat on the back for me.

Can't weight to get it in my hands.

Julian oiled it (2 coats) and put a anti scuff.

With the oling and antiscuff the bat weights (dead weight) 2lb9.5oz but picks-up like a 2lb7oz.

Will post pictures once I get it.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: gramw on September 21, 2008, 09:23:31 PM
when are you getting it brought over?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 21, 2008, 11:58:32 PM
if my friend is sending it by post then this week else the week after when I meet him in Frankfurt
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: jamie.c on September 26, 2008, 07:04:43 PM
Really like the look of that screaming cat. Stickers are lovely
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: yvk3103 on September 26, 2008, 07:13:20 PM
yes, the bat is a beauty. Excellent Ping. The stickers are not very imposing like on other brands, but do leave their impression.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: jamie.c on September 26, 2008, 07:22:45 PM
Yeah i agree i personally like not many stickers on the bat, and just simple ones e.g Newbery, Salix.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: joshierox on September 26, 2008, 09:22:42 PM
Yea its nice screaming cats ^^ wait till you see my bat just got to find the cam... any way? how can you post a new topic? i was wanting to make a new topic..?

also i find that the straighter the grains the better the bat... but its relay not about how good the bat is its about how good the player is.. you can walk out there with a fence paling and you still should be able to bat... the more expensive the bat the more power you get. also how do you post pics?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: patty93 on August 22, 2009, 11:36:03 PM
i always thought that the more grains the better it'll ping but the shorter it'll last.
the lesser grains the longer it'll last.
hence why i went half way and bout a kookaburra with 9 grains :)
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Hads45 on August 23, 2009, 05:49:09 AM
Grains mean very little. Honestly, get the mallet out and hit bats and tell me bats with less grains in general dont ping just as good (in most cases). Ive found through a lot of testing ok you dont want 5 grains or 3, but as long as you have enough, around 8 and they are generally even they will be the best, but even that isnt totally important. The best bat ive hit in a certain shop just had standard grains and a huge blemish in the middle which pinged like nothing else.

Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Cakes on September 20, 2009, 11:24:16 AM
looks quite big for 2'6 , may i ask how much it set you back ?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Sitonit on November 11, 2009, 05:19:54 PM
I have seen one of Tendulkar's bat with 21 grains and another of his bat with 8 grains. Not sure about effect of grains on the performance but I guess its more of a weight, balance, pick, and quality of the willow that matters more.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on February 01, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: alee on February 15, 2013, 03:33:32 AM
He has videos on youtube

Fox Sports interviews Julian Millichamp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTdQv8fCkSc#)

he mentions close to 1:52 about his preference
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: chaudhari21 on March 04, 2013, 03:22:35 AM
I have always preferred between 8-12 grain. At least in all the bats that I bought that played well.  I bought a SS Matrix one time that had very tight grain but did not really play well.  Here is the pictures of it (http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u582/chaudhari21/Cricket%20Equipment/ssmatrixPDS_zps537b5d03.jpg)
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: alee on August 04, 2014, 06:43:04 AM
Hi Guys,

well a few of my teammates reckon the opposite of what i or the norm would think about tight versus broad grains.

Basically they say that older wood or, more grains in a bat, tend to open up later and last longer while those bats with fewer grains, hence younger wood, would open sooner but won't last as long.

Any thoughts/feedback?
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: tim2000s on August 04, 2014, 07:10:24 AM
Hi Guys,

well a few of my teammates reckon the opposite of what i or the norm would think about tight versus broad grains.

Basically they say that older wood or, more grains in a bat, tend to open up later and last longer while those bats with fewer grains, hence younger wood, would open sooner but won't last as long.

Any thoughts/feedback?
Exactly as you stated. That's the opposite of what most people think/batmakers have experienced.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: smokem on August 04, 2014, 07:11:15 AM
The "problem" I have with tight grains is that when they are very close together, it is easier for them to develop a split from one grain across to the next, especially if the bat has not been very carefully prepared (and even more so where there's heartwood present). This is just from what I've seen with other people's bats since I'm not fond of too many grains. So my opinion is that it is less durable to have tight grains.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Fearless Fly on August 04, 2014, 08:21:27 AM
IN my opinion (this is a forum) I think it mainly comes down to preparation and pressing rather than the tight vs broad grain structure in regards to opening up earlier and durability.
Think we have all owned some bats that have both tight and narrow and all lasted differently. So i think the preparation and pressing is the factor in "opening up" and durability
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: Seniorplayer on August 04, 2014, 09:39:59 AM
Tighter the grain usually means the willow is older the older the willow the quicker the bat dies due to lack of moisture.
But the key to a bats lifespan is as already stated is the skill of the person carrying out the pressing.
Title: Re: Tight grains vs broad grains
Post by: abdulwq on October 15, 2014, 10:28:11 PM
Nice piece of info.
Well i chose my bats just by pinging the ball and i have used bats with 6-7 grains and are absolutely belter. The tighter neat grains i think are just a show off.