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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: Howzat on June 18, 2010, 03:53:14 PM

Title: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Howzat on June 18, 2010, 03:53:14 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/counties/ireland/8714619.stm

Every two bloody weeks they keep saying how they should get test status. They are CRAP and I cant see them being able to beat any test side, not even Bangladesh!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: roco on June 18, 2010, 04:03:14 PM
Maybe they should play a few smaller teams like Zimbabwe in a four day game first as they are next in line for test status after some top notch one day performances
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 04:08:04 PM
living out there or here to to speak the talent is around the junior age range in comparison with english counties but at 16 there seems to be no progression with the players so i think in ireland the infastructure needs work before any test status will be given..

slating bangledash i suspect they will be up there in a few years
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Jeet on June 18, 2010, 04:15:53 PM
Maybe they should play a few smaller teams like Zimbabwe in a four day game first as they are next in line for test status after some top notch one day performances
Sorry but Zimbabwe are different league to Ireland.

Shakib Al Hasan even said the Zim are developing better than Bangladesh.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 04:18:13 PM
if ireland kept there better players they would be up there with the likes of zimbabwe but as i said i suspect they need test status to keep there better players but do not have the set up but can not get the set up without it so a little catch 22
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Jeet on June 18, 2010, 04:24:07 PM
if ireland kept there better players they would be up there with the likes of zimbabwe but as i said i suspect they need test status to keep there better players but do not have the set up but can not get the set up without it so a little catch 22
Ireland have lost two players, one of which is trying to re-qualify to play for them.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: roco on June 18, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
Sorry but Zimbabwe are different league to Ireland.

Shakib Al Hasan even said the Zim are developing better than Bangladesh.

that's what I mean they keep moaning they want a go at test status but Zimbabwe are next in line so they will have to out perform them to get a shot
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 04:45:37 PM
The likes of Rankin, Joyce, Morgan, Bray are all examples of the top quality cricketers coming through but Ireland NEED test status if they are to stop the flow of good Irish talent to other nations. I doubt england would  have even made the semi finals of the T20 is morgan wasnt in the line-up. I agree Ireland need to improve infrastructure but that needs money, which comes from doing well in tournaments and playing more matches, which gets you noticed by the ad men etc and this can only happen if you have all the players available.

You talk about beating Zimbabwe, but they were going to do that in the 07 WC, if rain hadnt stopped play. That was 3 years ago, and Ireland have improved massively since then
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 04:46:43 PM
as a englishman stuck in irleand i want them to get test status and yes they would get walloped for a few years a bit simillar to Sri Lanka, India(away), and currently Bangledash.

for any of you who have played in ireland the quality is definatly there league standard wise and given time maybe test status is not beyond them

everybody has to start somewere
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Jeet on June 18, 2010, 04:46:43 PM
that's what I mean they keep moaning they want a go at test status but Zimbabwe are next in line so they will have to out perform them to get a shot
Zim aren't 'next in line', they are already full members - whom voluntarily stepped down from Test cricket. Zimbabwe are playing Test again next year.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Jeet on June 18, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
as a englishman stuck in irleand i want them to get test status and yes they would get walloped for a few years a bit simillar to Sri Lanka, India(away), and currently Bangledash.

for any of you who have played in ireland the quality is definatly there league standard wise and given time maybe test status is not beyond them

everybody has to start somewere
When have India being getting 'walloped' away from home recently?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 04:50:59 PM
name a side who have been given test status and have never been competative i can name only 1 zimbabwe.

the truth is like i expect bangledash in yeras to come to be a force i think ireland are worth a punt

storemont is a great ground worth of international cricket


and if you do your homework you will see the irish schoolboy sides have a very very good record against english county junior sides
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 04:52:53 PM
jeet what i talking about is history mate and when india were getting walloped and look at history bud away from home 70-80-90 india took a walloping.

but that the same if ireland got test status as i have said everybody has to start somewere so why not
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 04:56:08 PM
Is it me or do ireland moan quite a lot in every sport :P ?? Just awaiting the rugby moans after being pummled by NZ and then the maori!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Jeet on June 18, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
name a side who have been given test status and have never been competative i can name only 1 zimbabwe.

the truth is like i expect bangledash in yeras to come to be a force i think ireland are worth a punt

storemont is a great ground worth of international cricket


and if you do your homework you will see the irish schoolboy sides have a very very good record against english county junior sides
Zimbabwe are better than Bangladesh IMO, Zim have won Tests against full strength sides. If it haven;t been for Zim's key players retired and the Windies being idiots, Bangladesh would never have won a Test.

What I would add is that you at least should be good at home, something Bangladesh aren't.

Before India became powerhouses, they where all ways good at home.

jeet what i talking about is history mate and when india were getting walloped and look at history bud away from home 70-80-90 india took a walloping.

but that the same if ireland got test status as i have said everybody has to start somewere so why not
Ok got you now.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 05:03:33 PM
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283877.html

have a read of this makes good reading

bangledash or zimbabwe???

my theory is 2 divisions should form a test championship
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: roco on June 18, 2010, 05:12:35 PM
Zim are full members but have not got test status back yet has to be approved but the icc won't give test status to too many countries due to the amount if cricket being played in a way I back two divisions but them people like tamim would miss out on a high level challenge so is a double edged sword
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 05:44:17 PM
You cant keep them in for one player though, thats like saying togo must be in world cup for adebayor etc..
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 05:46:31 PM
for what is worth test cricket needs a shake up with not just a series at stake a place in the world test championship could and should.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: roco on June 18, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
True but I think they are getting better and are follwing the Sri lanka model so will develop better players shakib is rated the no 1 all rounder plus a couple of a good bats and bowlers
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 05:53:57 PM
[url]http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283877.html[/url]

have a read of this makes good reading

bangledash or zimbabwe???

my theory is 2 divisions should form a test championship


Very interesting indeed - Zim have a win% of 10 and Bangla have a win% of 4. That says it all imo

You cant keep them in for one player though, thats like saying togo must be in world cup for adebayor etc..


Atleast Togo were able to compete in qualification for the world cup - the highest honour for any player - can ireland play tests - the highest honour for players? no
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 06:05:20 PM
Very interesting indeed - Zim have a win% of 10 and Bangla have a win% of 4. That says it all imo

Atleast Togo were able to compete in qualification for the world cup - the highest honour for any player - can ireland play tests - the highest honour for players? no

agreed, thats a good point. But i'm saying you cant keep bangladesh in there just because of tamim...
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
agreed, thats a good point. But i'm saying you cant keep bangladesh in there just because of tamim...

Thats not the point - If Bangladesh didnt have test status, do you think he would have been poached by the other Asian teams? No because they have better batsman and a long list of player waiting in the wings. Bangladesh need a few years to mature, then they will become really good. Ireland on the other hand are really vulnerable because the talent in England is so shallow, that they NEED an influx of south africans and now irishmen to bolster the team.

Can you imagine an England without Pietersen, Lumb, Kieswetter, Morgan, Trott and if you being OTT, Strauss and Prior? Pietersen and Morgan are irreplaceable, and the others have more talent than anyone in the english pool of players. This is as much about protecting england's integrity, future and heritage as much as it is about keeping irish players irish.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2010, 09:47:13 PM
Can you imagine an England without Pietersen, Lumb, Kieswetter, Morgan, Trott
Guess you missed a couple of the Ashes Tests last year then...
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 18, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
[url]http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283877.html[/url]

have a read of this makes good reading

bangledash or zimbabwe???

my theory is 2 divisions should form a test championship


God help me for agreeing with Dave but get Div 2 up and running with them plus West Indies, Ireland and Australia.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 09:51:14 PM
Guess you missed a couple of the Ashes Tests last year then...

Owned!

Anyway that was the point mate, the comment was, we cant put bangladesh into a second tier as then tamim cant face challenges against the best (or words to that effect. cba to find it exactly!)

And i'm saying thats not the case, tamim isnt a reason at all to keep a team playing against eng, SA and aus etc if a two tier came in and bangladesh were talked about being put down there. All very hypothetical really.

On Ireland, i dont see what they've honestly done to deserve test status??
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 09:52:22 PM
I do think a two tier would be good, is it actually being discussed/considered?

Which nations would make it up?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 09:58:52 PM
Guess you missed a couple of the Ashes Tests last year then...

FYI, i watched every ball of every test and was there when England held the urn - where were you? Pietersen, Trott, Bopara, Panesar - I would hardly call them English. Also Flintoff was playing then and was instrumental.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Cant of watched it that hard if you saw panesar and bopara there!

apoligies to above comment, i thought you said last test!!!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 18, 2010, 10:03:12 PM
Cardiff, didn't Monty bat a bit, and having met him I'd stake pretty good money on him being 110% British, just a thought...
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 10:03:40 PM
Also panesar not english? Born in luton? heard him speak? Parents came over here in 70's but he was born and raised solely here, think thats quite a good reason!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2010, 10:04:51 PM
Ok, so what's English, in your opinion? I go by facts usually, and if their passport is British and they want to play for their country (adopted or not) then thats good enough for me.

By your definition I guess they have to be white. But how many ancestors have to have been born here? What religion do they need to be? Do they need to be blonde haired and blue eyed too?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 10:04:59 PM
apoligies i thought he said last test!! not every test!! Lets be honest bopara hardly "played" ;) he got out and dropped catches..... thought he was australian myself for those tests :D
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 10:05:39 PM
I was born here! I talk like an englishmen. I support england in the football and the cricket. I like a sunday roast and a cuppa now and again. Im not english though. I dont have a problem with england winning, it just becomes devalued when its players like Lumb, Kieswetter, Pietersen and Morgan are helping you win your first tournament in history.

OK - Do you think england would have won without these 4 players? if so, with who in their places?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2010, 10:11:04 PM
And that's your opinion, so you would choose not to play for England. Yet Panesar etc regard themselves as English and consequently want to play for them.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 18, 2010, 10:12:25 PM
Ok, so what's English, in your opinion? I go by facts usually, and if their passport is British and they want to play for their country (adopted or not) then thats good enough for me.

By your definition I guess they have to be white. But how many ancestors have to have been born here? What religion do they need to be? Do they need to be blonde haired and blue eyed too?

Strictly speaking true Brits would be Celts, Blonde hair and Blue eyes are traits of the Saxons, Angles and Vikings, in which case only Collingwood makes it in for my money.....
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 18, 2010, 10:15:22 PM
do you think the irish and the south africans regard themselves as english? do you think speaking in a make-weight english accent and having the 3 lions tattooed on your body makes you english?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 18, 2010, 10:16:53 PM
I was born here! I talk like an englishmen. I support england in the football and the cricket. I like a sunday roast and a cuppa now and again. Im not english though. I dont have a problem with england winning, it just becomes devalued when its players like Lumb, Kieswetter, Pietersen and Morgan are helping you win your first tournament in history.

OK - Do you think england would have won without these 4 players? if so, with who in their places?

I'm presuming that you might be Asian in heritage, would you therefore respond if a racist called out an  insult of "go home (No Racism Please)", because I'd think you might retort. I don't think you can enjoy the benefits of any culture without having to accept some of the presumptions that come with them, you grow up and live here, I think that makes you British, it certainly won't make you French....
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: peplow on June 18, 2010, 10:19:37 PM
I for one dislike the french!

I think tom is correct though! Those that qualify and want to play for england let them, many others in their position may not so we must also let them!

Personal opinions and tricky subjects these!!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 18, 2010, 10:19:41 PM
do you think the irish and the south africans regard themselves as english? do you think speaking in a make-weight english accent and having the 3 lions tattooed on your body makes you english?

If people didn't settle in foreign lands we would not have been able to call Pietersen South African, as his forefathers would have stayed in Europe, so maybe by your rules he is English completely as his parents etc could not call themselves South African???
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 18, 2010, 10:42:23 PM
many many saffers and zimb fight for this country and if anybody as tom said has the passport and want to get them signed up maybe we need to do this with football.

ps mike did you get the special gn off dan he had one of as in
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 19, 2010, 08:04:22 AM
No, got it as a swap for a new bat for a Pakistani International, in fact will have a load of Players bats over the next 4 weeks but merely swapping them for signed playing shirts etc.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: procricket on June 19, 2010, 08:16:53 AM
is it a kransbhuler on the one i saw was and to be honest very light indeed for 2,10
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Coach on June 19, 2010, 08:38:02 AM
I have a feeling i know what the bleeped out bit of Mikes sentence might be and if so why has it been edited?
Calling a Pakistani an Paki is exactly the same as calling and Australian an Aussie! There is nothing wrong with the phrase Paki, only when it is miss-used and a generic term for a person of any asian origin.
As far as nationality is concerned i was born in Edinburgh and consider myself a proud Scot. However having lived in England for the last 12 years, i am qualified to play for England. However when i enquired about playing for Scotland Under 19's i was told i wasn't qualified! Due to the reason that in the last 3 years i havn't a) lived in Scotland or b) played over 50% of league fixtures in Scotland. I born in Edinburgh am not qualified, yet the captain of the side at the time born in Nottingham is? How does that work?

Umz, it is strange the you are English but dont consider yourself to be, care to explain?
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: uknsaunders on June 19, 2010, 10:03:05 AM
My penny worth...

Split test championship - big 8 in 1 Division and Bang, Zim, Ireland, Afgan, Kenya? in another "Feeder"Division. Feeder teams play each other every 4 years home and away BUT also play 2 tests a year against 1 team from the big 8. This gives approx 8 tests a year for each team allowing for a 3 test series against feeder teams. Only when a feeder team draws or wins 50% of the test fixtures or are ranked number 1 in the feeder division for a period of 2 years or more, do they get given full test status - reviewed every 4 years of course. Anyway, something like that IMHO is fair.

Irelands biggest problem is they don't have a professional league. If they could afford to fund 4 teams, it would make a life alot easier. Let's face it, if you lend your players to another country to give them experience and improve them, how can you not expect that country to pinch some of them? I think they've been lucky to only have 2 pinched, how many irishmen in county cricket now?

Re Bopara and Monty - both born in England, get over it. Any SA playing for England, qualified under ICC rules, fair and square and the same for all countries - get over it. It's freedom of choice - people can live wherever they want and become a citizen of any country they move to. Only people who are moaning are the ones who don't benefit.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Howzat on June 19, 2010, 10:18:39 AM
My penny worth...

Split test championship - big 8 in 1 Division and Bang, Zim, Ireland, Afgan, Kenya? in another "Feeder"Division. Feeder teams play each other every 4 years home and away BUT also play 2 tests a year against 1 team from the big 8. This gives approx 8 tests a year for each team allowing for a 3 test series against feeder teams. Only when a feeder team draws or wins 50% of the test fixtures or are ranked number 1 in the feeder division for a period of 2 years or more, do they get given full test status - reviewed every 4 years of course. Anyway, something like that IMHO is fair.

Irelands biggest problem is they don't have a professional league. If they could afford to fund 4 teams, it would make a life alot easier. Let's face it, if you lend your players to another country to give them experience and improve them, how can you not expect that country to pinch some of them? I think they've been lucky to only have 2 pinched, how many irishmen in county cricket now?

Re Bopara and Monty - both born in England, get over it. Any SA playing for England, qualified under ICC rules, fair and square and the same for all countries - get over it. It's freedom of choice - people can live wherever they want and become a citizen of any country they move to. Only people who are moaning are the ones who don't benefit.

Only prob I can see (pretty major one) England/India/Aus/SL/WI/Pakistan are all going to do over afganistan, kenya in 3 days!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: uknsaunders on June 19, 2010, 10:37:53 AM
as opposed to doing over bang at Old Trafford in 3 days....

Not perfect, i'd admit, but these feeder teams need to play the best in some kind of limited capacity, to understand how good the feeder teams are.
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 19, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Umz, it is strange the you are English but dont consider yourself to be, care to explain?


Im brown. If you saw me, would you assume I was English or Asian? I'll probably work here, live here, play cricket here, for the rest of my life so its home, but its home home, if you get what I mean ???

Its funny though; all my mates call me a coconut (white inside, brown outside haha) because I like indie and rock and despise R&B, support England and not Pakistan, prefer football to cricket, I cant even handle a hot curry or speak fluent urdu and maybe they're right, but I feel uncomfortable thinking of myself as English when I am a second generation immigrant
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: alexrickyponting on June 19, 2010, 06:14:36 PM
"prefer football to cricket"  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: umz_786 on June 19, 2010, 06:39:22 PM
sorry lads - die-hard footy fan. As a liverpool season ticket holder I travel 400 miles every other week for 90 minutes at Anfield!
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: alexrickyponting on June 19, 2010, 06:58:35 PM
There's the virtual door -->
get out
 ;)
Title: Re: Ireland stop moaning...
Post by: Talisman on June 19, 2010, 08:04:49 PM
umz_786, I find it sad that you don't feel English, a sense of belonging is vital and it sounds like you have all the ingredients but it hasn't clicked yet.