Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 08:47:15 AM

Title: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 08:47:15 AM
Guys, i'm curious to know what everyone thinks about grains.

How many is a good number?

Do they really make any difference?

What is Sapwood or Heartwood?

I would think you should judge a bat by pickup, weight and ping rather than worry about how good it looks.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: RoCo Da Pixie on October 26, 2010, 09:24:39 AM
I do not think grains is the be all and end all of a bat, I normally use a bat that has 8-11 grains, But its what the bat maker recommends to me,
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 09:25:23 AM
you just hear people banging on about grains - its a personal preference i guess
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Washington on October 26, 2010, 09:28:28 AM
Although it may be a personal preference, i believe a higher number of grains will give better performance immediately whereas a lower number of grains will mean performance will come later on after its played in
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 09:32:17 AM
am i right in thinking that the more grains you have the bat will break quicker??
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Buzz on October 26, 2010, 09:34:23 AM
this is all nonsense - how the bat is pressed has the impact, the number of grains is all personal preference and vanity.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Washington on October 26, 2010, 09:37:25 AM
Its funny then how all top end bats on this forum and further afield, have at least 8+ grains
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 26, 2010, 09:37:48 AM
a bat is made from wood which is a natural material so some may last years other only half a season
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: roco on October 26, 2010, 09:38:25 AM
Well mr millichamp recommends 7-9 so can't be bad
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 09:40:07 AM
most manufacturers grade their willow based on grains.

or am i wrong?!
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: roco on October 26, 2010, 09:41:25 AM
Don't know as the bats I have has off redback bulldog h4l talisman and ayrtek have been graded on performance
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: golders on October 26, 2010, 09:42:57 AM
But would doubt that any of them had fewer than six grains,no?
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Washington on October 26, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
I dont think they grade on grains alone, obviously performance has to be paramount!

Think any bat maker would struggle to sell any top end bat that had 5 grains
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on October 26, 2010, 09:44:26 AM
we grade on performance rather than looks....best to have a bat that will score you runs than one that looks good sat in your kitbag! If you can find the balance between both your onto a winner ;)
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 09:48:18 AM
if buying online often knowing the grains and the profile of the bat is pretty much all you can judge on - i guess you have to trust the manufacturer when he grades it.

Or visit the manufacturer and pick your bat first hand i guess
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: seedy on October 26, 2010, 09:48:33 AM
In that case how do you grade on performance without using the bat in a match situation?
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: 19reading87 on October 26, 2010, 09:49:13 AM
Grains are all personal Preference. My custom made county has 12 and performs amazingly. I had heard that the more grains the less life it has but I hit a lot of runs last season and the bat was still flying at the end. It shall go away for a refurb and then next season hopefully continue to get me more runs.

The old theory is... Less grains take longer to get "better performance" but last longer
                          More grains play better straight away but don't have a long life.

But like Tom(arytek) said above, wood is a natural material. It's going to break at some point.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: roco on October 26, 2010, 09:52:11 AM
Grains varied as the redback had 14 ayrtek 10 bulldog 8 h4l 14 talisman 9 and that was made for sachin
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 09:54:01 AM
I think over the years we have been moulded into thinking that grains are the be all and end all - guess its a personal choice and picking the bat thats right for you based on cost vs performance
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: tim2000s on October 26, 2010, 11:58:44 AM
There's an interesting post on Middlepeg website somewhere, but it's a while since I read it. The gist of it is as follows:

6-12 grains is the indication of a younger tree at chop time. 20 odd grains is the indicator of an older tree. The older the tree, the less pliable and more brittle the willow is. A 20 odd grain bat is likely to have a much shorter life span than a 10 grain bat and split sooner, but performance won't be affected and it may perform better with less knocking in.

I have now way of testing or verifying the truth in this, but I can see the logic.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Howzat on October 26, 2010, 01:19:07 PM
There's an interesting post on Middlepeg website somewhere, but it's a while since I read it. The gist of it is as follows:

6-12 grains is the indication of a younger tree at chop time. 20 odd grains is the indicator of an older tree. The older the tree, the less pliable and more brittle the willow is. A 20 odd grain bat is likely to have a much shorter life span than a 10 grain bat and split sooner, but performance won't be affected and it may perform better with less knocking in.

I have now way of testing or verifying the truth in this, but I can see the logic.
I heard something similar that each ring is how old the tree is. Nowdays there are less trees with lots of grains as people tend to cut them down earlier at around 10-12 years... although no idea if this is true as surely that would mean that 3 grain bat that pinch hitter had was from a 3 year old tree :|
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: mdl_1979 on October 26, 2010, 01:22:00 PM
Before I started spending hours of my life being a bat geek on here, I was very much a 8-10 nice straight, cosmetically pretty grains type of man.  Now, to be honest, the number/straightness of the grains doesn't really matter that much to me.  I'm far more interested in the rebound qualities of the willow.  I still think I am probably too set in my ways to go down to 6ish grains, but that is purely down to vanity.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: GJ on October 26, 2010, 01:59:35 PM
On the subject of grains and all things willow, is there anybody here who seeks for butterfly stains in a bat? I know the majority dont find them attractive in a bat but there has been talk of them increasing preformance, strengthening the bat, etc, etc. Would be interesting to hear peoples thoughts on them.
My current bat has a butterfly stain around the near the toe area and goes quite well around that area.
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Whispering Death on October 26, 2010, 05:21:54 PM
butterfly specks, i believe, reduce the grade of the bat due to the look. however, they do make the area stronger and therefore last longer.

It might be an idea for someone to make an entire bat with butterfly marks on it!
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: Watsontotty on October 26, 2010, 05:29:07 PM
Number of grains is a personal preference and in my opinion most people want lots of grains because they believe some of the false claims and opinions made by others. Ive owned bats with 7 grains, 8, 9,10,11,12,13,14 and my preference is 8-10 this is because in my experience ive had good performance and durability on bats like this. Ive had bats with heartwood butterfly marks specs etc and all i ask for is relatively straight clean grains as I'm not a fan of heartwood at all.

20 grain bat wont guarantee it will play better than a 10 grain bat but however a large number of people believe they do hence why its such a big deal when people buy bats. 
Title: Re: Grains - does it really matter
Post by: maxy1 on October 26, 2010, 05:34:06 PM
that 3 grain bat that pinch hitter had was from a 3 year old tree :|

i presume this is in a topic somewhere but i cant find it with search , any chance of a link leo ?