Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Companies => Custom companies => Topic started by: Hads45 on November 22, 2010, 09:46:00 AM

Title: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Hads45 on November 22, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
I just thought id make a comment on people declaring how good bats are without seeing them, and in this instance Screaming cat.

While I am sure they are a very good brand, it seems so many people on the forum are very quick to praise JM and declare these one of the best brands in the world, if not the best. Most people generally talk without using it, and thats fair enough, everyones guilty of it.

 While I am sure they are very good Id just like to comment that I have seen two in the last few weeks. The first one was the second from the top model and I had a net with it as it was a mates at training, and to be honest it was ok, but nothing special, far from what I expected given the talk.

The other was a bloke I ran into at work one day brought his new one in. t was the top of the range elite, six hundred and how many ever dollars one in and I gave it a hit on the mallet and once again, decent bat, but nothing special, and to be honest nothing which id say seperated it from anything ive seen on the shelf.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: peplow on November 22, 2010, 09:52:19 AM
It because money talks, if a bat is sold for £400 we assume its better than one for £200, just like we assume the new newbery cenkos to be the very best for £1000! Its a perception we get that higher prices = better quality which then means better brands. But obviously its also word of mouth, i know tom milsom loves his and it does go very well, so rave reviews only enhance this feeling of it being the creme de la creme!
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: kenbriooo on November 22, 2010, 09:59:55 AM
You raise an interesting point and I agree with much is said. I think the reason Scat and Laver are held in such high regard is due to their scarcity over here. In my opinion, at the end of the day these guys use the same willow (pretty much) as everyone else, granted they may press and shape it differently but you will only get 'X'% performance out of the bat(presuming same grade). Granted some may perform better than others and some worse. But will a £200 SAF bat only perform half as well as a £400 Laver? I suspect not.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Hads45 on November 22, 2010, 10:12:10 AM
I was more just commenting on the fact that SCAT seem somewhat invincible on these forums and more just adding that they are certainly not. I am sure they are good bats and I have no doubt most customers would be happy as really if you middle any bat it generally goes and you think "wow this is a good stick". As you say, some are definetly going to play better than others.

And im not saying these were bad ones but I have definetly played with and hit alot better bats.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: peplow on November 22, 2010, 10:26:18 AM
Not that invincable, they got beaten into the final by redback :D so not everyone feels that way!
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: roco on November 22, 2010, 10:42:39 AM
the myth is based around the maker as by most in the cricketing world rate jm as one of the top batmakers in the world so with a name comes the price
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
the myth is based around the maker as by most in the cricketing world rate jm as one of the top batmakers in the world so with a name comes the price
Agreed on JM/Cost perception.

Having now experienced the Laver myth, I'd have to say he made a lovely bat, I couldn't fault it, and it really did fly. However, going on his recommendation didn't quite work out for me and I'd be more likely to get a custom done for me locally now, if I didn't know what shape I wanted. I've learned that maybe price isn't everything, and "legendary" batmakers maybe aren't that much better than upcoming ones...
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Interesting.
I have not used one so cannot comment. I like the shape of them, looking lke they have more wood behind the middle areas than they should for the weight without stupidly thin shoulders and toe.
I guess you only really feel the benefit of that when you middle an attacking shot.
Not sure i would lend my new SCAT to anyone at an indoor net, unless they had the highest regard to what they had in their hands

In the end of the day they are all lumps of wood with most people knowing what they like or what weight distribution feels familar to them so possibly just a bit different to what you use.

Finally, and not discrediting this, but how many shops let you bang a mallet on off the shelf bats these days?

He certainly has good pedigree and his bats were always popular with the International aussie players.
Would i buy a SCAT made by Julian, Absolutely
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Colesy on November 22, 2010, 02:13:45 PM
Slightly less expensive, but I would like a GM Hero (yellow) as I think they look very nice. I was talking to Byo when we last played his team as he used one and I wanted one then aswell lol.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 02:31:42 PM
I guess you only really feel the benefit of that when you middle an attacking shot.
I agree. You do, but as I said, it wasn't the bat that was the issue really, it was the shape in relation to me. When I hit the middle, it just went. Best example of this was a stright six hit straight back over the bowlers head off the second ball of my innings. Slightly short of a length and I didn't put much into it. Just didn't find that spot on the bat often enough!
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 03:02:13 PM
Tim 2000 I was talking about the SCAT rather than the Laver, but pretty sure they learnt their trade in the same places and make similar bats.

You can have the best bat on the world and if it does not suit your play then it will probably not perform as well as a lower graded bat that is made to the right spec for you.

I have to say there are quite a lot of people on here buying bats that turn out to be wrong for them and then selling them on at a loss, which is great for people who are interested in trying new bats.

Part of me thinks though that rather than getting caught up in the excitement of buyng a bat, as we all have done make an "honest" assesment of your batting style, the quality of the cricket you play, where you actually score most of your runs.
In our mind i am sure we all thinks we bat like Ian Bell, with the concentration of Tendulkar and the power of gayle where in reality we actually strangle cover drives through mid on and off the bottom inside edge.
in fact we do not hit it out the middle too often and dont have the assurity to use a heavy bat.

AND that actually we dont actually know what bat we shoudl have made, not actually listen to the advise people give you.
Unless people on here are MUCH better cricketers than me, and by and large i dont think they probably are.
most people in my opinon should be buying more forgiving bats, with thinner edges and probably 2 lb lighter than they currently have. They are simply not good enough cricketers to get the full benefit from these "pro" bats" made by the likes of Julian or James.
I am not a great batsmen nor a superb knowlege of willow, but sure it is like someone buying a professional surf board and saying actually it felt a bit twitchy on the 3 foot waves and didnt feel any better than the one i got down in Newquay.

I would have to say that my gut feeling is that you have bought the wrong bat, too heavy and too unforgiving and with probably a middle slightly too high for the (No Swearing Please) pitchs you play on



Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 03:10:03 PM
Sorry, sound a bit harsh.
I mean "you" as in a lot of people on here that do not know better.

My point is that if one is honest with ones self and look and the red marks on the bat, using a more local and affordable bat maker you could work to find the right type of bat for oneself and learn what difference do what to your game.
Then ,when you have more of an understand of things it might be time to  ask these master batsmen to style you a bat

only my thoughts, for what they are worth....
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Simmy on November 22, 2010, 03:15:01 PM
Tim 2000 I was talking about the SCAT rather than the Laver, but pretty sure they learnt their trade in the same places and make similar bats.

You can have the best bat on the world and if it does not suit your play then it will probably not perform as well as a lower graded bat that is made to the right spec for you.

I have to say there are quite a lot of people on here buying bats that turn out to be wrong for them and then selling them on at a loss, which is great for people who are interested in trying new bats.

Part of me thinks though that rather than getting caught up in the excitement of buyng a bat, as we all have done make an "honest" assesment of your batting style, the quality of the cricket you play, where you actually score most of your runs.
In our mind i am sure we all thinks we bat like Ian Bell, with the concentration of Tendulkar and the power of gayle where in reality we actually strangle cover drives through mid on and off the bottom inside edge.
in fact we do not hit it out the middle too often and dont have the assurity to use a heavy bat.

AND that actually we dont actually know what bat we shoudl have made, not actually listen to the advise people give you.
Unless people on here are MUCH better cricketers than me, and by and large i dont think they probably are.
most people in my opinon should be buying more forgiving bats, with thinner edges and probably 2 lb lighter than they currently have. They are simply not good enough cricketers to get the full benefit from these "pro" bats" made by the likes of Julian or James.
I am not a great batsmen nor a superb knowlege of willow, but sure it is like someone buying a professional surf board and saying actually it felt a bit twitchy on the 3 foot waves and didnt feel any better than the one i got down in Newquay.

I would have to say that my gut feeling is that you have bought the wrong bat, too heavy and too unforgiving and with probably a middle slightly too high for the (No Swearing Please) pitchs you play on

i disagree
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on November 22, 2010, 03:24:49 PM
If you go out and pay £400 for a bat your going to be a brave sole to turn around and tell your mates its not actually any better than what they have got in their kit bag.

perception is that the more money something costs the better is it and will perform. Buy a porsche for example....its cost you an extra £2.5k to have their logo emboirdered on the seats....does it make it any faster?? nope....but you can bet ur life ul be gettin ur mates to notice u have the extra wow factor on the seats as a status symbol (if the car alone isnt enough lol).
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 03:32:34 PM
Thanks Simmy, good insight
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Simmy on November 22, 2010, 03:34:31 PM
If you go out and pay £400 for a bat your going to be a brave sole to turn around and tell your mates its not actually any better than what they have got in their kit bag.

perception is that the more money something costs the better is it and will perform. Buy a porsche for example....its cost you an extra £2.5k to have their logo emboirdered on the seats....does it make it any faster?? nope....but you can bet ur life ul be gettin ur mates to notice u have the extra wow factor on the seats as a status symbol (if the car alone isnt enough lol).


i allways preffer the wolfs in sheeps clothing!

i like getting bats not many people have herd of then when they are awsome lots of people asking about them!

like on this forum alot of people know all the brands but if i turn up in my league with a blueroom no body will know anything about it.

same with the cars!

my polo had roughly the same performance as some bottom end porsches.

why spend more money on something when u can get same for half the price and the same performance
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on November 22, 2010, 03:40:08 PM
have to agree mate, only saw one other SCAT in our league last year which was a premium model.

due to the small volume of bats scat are banging out you would hope quality control was very high though as for the price you wouldnt want a plank! end of the day though if ur good enough u should score runs with anything in ur hands...the bat will just enhance this a bit. would be an interesting experiment though giving one of the pros a plank to bat with and seeing how they get on.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Simmy on November 22, 2010, 03:40:38 PM
Thanks Simmy, good insight

i just couldnt be bothered to right a reply to all the stuff you put apart from the fact that a better performance bat will help a good cricketer!

last year i got my solitaire and it was a monster i hit some of the biggest 6's i have ever hit this year! nothing to do with my cricket ablility as i havnt got any better or worse from the last few years. but i have hit the ball harder and further! if this isnt anything to do with a new bat with better peformance i dunno what is.

chances are if the bat was (No Swearing Please) some of them shots i would of got out to as the ball wouldnt have gone for 6 possibly could of dropped short etc
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: roco on November 22, 2010, 03:43:15 PM
Same with all things if you think you have a belter of a bat in your hands you are more confident and can help alot used my current special one for last 4 games and avg 68 just a mental thing at times
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Simmy on November 22, 2010, 03:44:17 PM
alot of cricket is mental!

its all in ur head :)

cricket should be a simple game only we make it complicated
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 03:52:46 PM
Simmy you seem to be arguing with yourself there mate.
The solitaire is nothing like the SCAT or LAver and is just a Big bat all round, but a good big bat.
However, a big bat whatever fricky shape it is going to go unless made by a muppet or a bad piece of wood

To be honest a novice can make that bat.

1) get big bit of wood
2) shave into a bat shape with lots of wood behind the ball
3) put stickers on it
4) charge £100 for it.

Last point, as i can tell you obviously have no time on your hands
A good bat will normally increase the performance of a GOOD cricketer, especially if he thinks it is a good bat i.e Roco's mental think
However a good bat will not MAKE  a good cricketer, and will not improve the performance of a bad cricketer, especially if the bat has a small and concentrated middle. What i am sayin gis that those bats will only really perform in the hands of a good cricketer and on here you have the feeling peopl eare chasing the best bat ( normally too big) rather thean the right bat for them

other than that, good point well made mate!
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 22, 2010, 03:56:02 PM
No offence intended to anyone here but I think if someone goes out to buy an expensive bat thinking it will automatically make them a better cricketer then IMO there an absolute clown!! The only thing that will make you any better at your own game is practise and hard graft. The quality bat just adds the gravy to the plate that's all. But.... I agree with the use of bats that won't suit a wicket or the style of play someone has. No poor buying a £400 he-man bat if a: it's too heavy/light b: it doesn't suit your game eg too low/high a middle. If anything it'll make you struggle and you'll be stuck with a bat you can't really use to the potential it was intended and an empty pocket. Thongs like that can help with confidence, the 2 bats I have now have given that mental edge to my game but by no means have I become a blonder, shorter Michael Vaughan run machine.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: roco on November 22, 2010, 03:56:57 PM
Weight is relative as mike drilled into me I usually use a 2lb11/12 but at the mo using a 2lb14 as it's all down to the pick up but do agree people use bats that are too heavy for them as the pick up can accommodate the odd oz but not if your using a bat 5/6 oz too heavy but depends on the level you play or aspire to play
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: peplow on November 22, 2010, 03:58:41 PM
Thongs like that can help with confidence,

Is there something you'd like to tell us mate? ;)
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 22, 2010, 04:00:23 PM
Things! thongs, French Knicks, g-strings, granny Panties, uber pants.... You know what it was meant to say hahaha. L
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Simmy on November 22, 2010, 04:01:45 PM
i disagree again on some bits

if a cricketer is poor and his bat has a small middle if they get a bat with a bigger middle and a better quality of willow that has better performance. they are going to me able to hit the ball better and there chances of scoring runs is greater.

but they are still not gonna turn into a good cricket just there chances are improving my a few percent!

but i agree with you size and weight of bats each bat should be picked up and tested.

Hence why me and liam this time round went to see a bat maker and we got bats there where perfect for are style of play.

Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 04:03:34 PM
I do agree with pick up being more important than deadwieght, and maybe i am exceprionally weak, but deadweight does play a part in cuts, flat bat shots and to some extent flicks off your legs.

I feel that even a coupl eof oz will have an effect.
Why if it is only pick up do the vast majoprity of pros have bats the same weight?
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 22, 2010, 04:05:10 PM
Yeah but teres plenty of people that will buy a bay just because of who made it or where it was for etc. I was nearly guilty of that mate a few weeks back but I thought about it and out decks are far to soft for a county spec bat with a relatively high and concentrated middle
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: roco on November 22, 2010, 04:09:14 PM
For consistency plus they will know there perfect weight shape handle width toe thickness etc and most will use the same bat maker for life we as amateurs won't we try different shapes makers etc

Plus I find pick up more important for bat speed as I have a very good pull/hook and good off my legs not very good on the cut but that's me not the bat
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 22, 2010, 04:11:56 PM
They will know what weight gives there bats the best performance to weight ratio and take it as a base I guess. And roco I totally agree mate
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: steelcouch on November 22, 2010, 04:51:24 PM
Ok,
But i dont think i am putting across my arguement very well.

A bad batsmen can get the most out of his limited ability by buying a good bat, suited to his style.
this bat will probably not be too heavy, nor would it have a concentrated high middle as used historically by good batmens.
The use of heavy bats is more prevalent now than it has been and my arguement is that despite light pick up, which really does negate some of the effect,the use of heavy bats will have an effect on playing certain shots, that is just bio physics lads. The body will have less touch and control when undertaking skilled movement when there is a requirement of increase force and energy.

Cricket can be a simply game of see ball hit ball, but you can also increase your chances of doing better by using the right equipment.  my gut feeling is there is a lot of ego in those edges and a lot of defensive justification.

I have to say i dont follow some of the previous points.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Talisman on November 22, 2010, 07:02:44 PM
Que sera sera.
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: FattusCattus on November 22, 2010, 07:44:38 PM
Hey - don't you start quoting Latin at us!
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 09:56:04 PM
Think you'll find it's not Latin... ;)
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: johnnyw on November 22, 2010, 09:56:57 PM
c'est francais
Title: Re: appraisal of bats we havent used
Post by: Tumo on November 22, 2010, 10:00:06 PM
Nope, it's Spanish. Sera means "it will be" in Spanish ;)