Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 08:56:37 PM
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Any questions and donations!!!!!
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/ (http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/)
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Hi Andy,
Do you have a specific tool you prefer to do the shoulders? Im struggling to keep the shoulders even and was wondering if you had any tips?
Dan
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Hi Andy,
we've had the £400 talisman, the £400 gn legends & the £1000 newbery. Will Saf be joining in?
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What do you consider to be the best bat you have made, why, and who was it for?
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Which is faster? An african swallow or a european swallow?
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If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?
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If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?
No, because a bat made 15 years ago would have been made on a wednesday (check for yourself), but a bat made yesterday would be an infamous sunday bat. It has been proven scientifically that a bat made on a sunday will never be as good as bats made during week days. Except tuesdays of course. We don't speak of tuesdays.
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Hi Andy,
Do you have a specific tool you prefer to do the shoulders? Im struggling to keep the shoulders even and was wondering if you had any tips?
Dan
Drawknife and a spoke shave - tips, umm practice. Not a great answer but true
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Hi Andy,
we've had the £400 talisman, the £400 gn legends & the £1000 newbery. Will Saf be joining in?
hmmmmmm... not sure why I'd join in..... I'm comfortable I offer the best I can for the prices they are being sold for
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What do you consider to be the best bat you have made, why, and who was it for?
Our ex-first team captain, who effectively got me started.... I'd make bats for him until my hands cramp up...... 2lb 12oz made it, scored 12, 98, 145 then 135 with it in 2007 ------- I was very happy :D
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Which is faster? An african swallow or a european swallow?
monty python love it
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If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?
Depends who makes it, you get crap nowadays and you got crap 15 years ago
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whats your advice on how to pick out a good bat?
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Depends who makes it, you get crap nowadays and you got crap 15 years ago
For the sake of argument, Tim Keeley made it 15 years ago and also yesterday, and they are both Mjolnirs.
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For the sake of argument, Tim Keeley made it 15 years ago and also yesterday, and they are both Mjolnirs.
I'd say 15 years ago as John Newbery was still fresh in the memory
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How do you stop wood 'peeling' when shaping the bat? Is it my fault? i.e wrong technique or not sharp enough tools?
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What's your favourite bat you've ever owned?
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How do you stop wood 'peeling' when shaping the bat? Is it my fault? i.e wrong technique or not sharp enough tools?
You shape against the grain turn the bat around or yourself
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If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?
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What's your favourite bat you've ever owned?
I've got a beat up Julian Millichamp M&H original which I love, plus my "I'm Viv Richards" SS Jumbo
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Wondered whether the SS Jumbo might make another appearance :)
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If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?
dead or alive?
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Wondered whether the SS Jumbo might make another appearance :)
Not as a line from me, Surridge are still doing the retro I think though
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Would pick up improve if the ratio of willow on the shoulders and the middle are similar with less on toe area?
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dead or alive?
Dead or Alive.
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Why is pressing considered to be one of the toughest skill while making a bat? Why do soft pressed bats have shorter life span and good performance for a short period of time and vice versa.
In your eyes is Asian bats pressing different to English bats pressing? If so then why and which one is better?
Thanks a ton!!!!
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If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?
I love making bats for everyone, that's what I do and why I do it....
If I had a choice I wouldn't chose a cricketer, I would say 1st choice John Newbery and I'd be bricking it trust me
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Would pick up improve if the ratio of willow on the shoulders and the middle are similar with less on toe area?
nope there are all individual ,a handle could weigh more then you expect so every bat should be individually balanced
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you
Why is pressing considered to be one of the toughest skill while making a bat? Why do soft pressed bats have shorter life span and good performance for a short period of time and vice versa.
In your eyes is Asian bats pressing different to English bats pressing? If so then why and which one is better?
Thanks a ton!!!!
Pressing is a skill because you need to understand what and why you a pressing a piece of willow in a certain way....
A soft press bat, in my opinion, is one of the biggest miss conceptions / myths about cricket bats out there. There is a place for it but you shouldn't soft press a cleft because you think it will be better!!!!! That is when it won't last!
Asian pressing in certain aspects is the same as English pressing - you get some good ones and you get some bad ones... The thing about some asian brands is they press for size or/and for bowing and that makes them worse
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you
Pressing is a skill because you need to understand what and why you a pressing a piece of willow in a certain way....
A soft press bat, in my opinion, is one of the biggest miss conceptions / myths about cricket bats out there. There is a place for it but you shouldn't soft press a cleft because you think it will be better!!!!! That is when it won't last!
Asian pressing in certain aspects is that same as English pressing - you get some good ones and you get some bads ones... The thing about some asian brands is they press for size or/and for bowing and that makes them worse
So which one would you say is the best in terms of performance and life?
Just to make myself clear Asian bats pressing is not (in some cases) because of the bow? Why exactly does bow make the pressing worse?
Once again thanks!
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Could you explain the choice of name 'San Andreas Fault'?
Cheers!
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It is to do with Andy's Playing ability - apparently there is, occasionally, a small gap between his bat and pad, which the ball has been known to sneak through - which his dear team mates called the San Andreas Fault - after the west coast of America fault line... very charitable of them!
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Buzz you never fail to Ammuse with your little anecdotes :D
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So which one would you say is the best in terms of performance and life?
Just to make myself clear Asian bats pressing is not (in some cases) because of the bow? Why exactly does bow make the pressing worse?
Once again thanks!
It leaves soft spots if not correctly done ---- so for example some may have a soft toe [others on here can confirm or deny for real world examples]
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Could you explain the choice of name 'San Andreas Fault'?
Cheers!
Yep that is an easy one --- My name is Andreas, my batting skills aren't great if you bowl wicket to wicket you'll find I can't pick up the ball and it will go straight through a fault in my batting *style*, therefore San Andreas Fault
Oh I see Buzz answered :D
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Guys keeping this open for one more day I reckon - techie questions welcome as well
Don't forget, please try and donate towards Movemeber
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Wow! I never would've connected the dots on that one!
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I've raised plenty of pennies through work and stuff but no one seemed to donate online when I asked them :( how have you got on SAF? I put a pic of mine on the MOVEMBER thread in the pavilion
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whats your advice on how to pick out a good bat?
Sorry missed this one!!!!
If you're in a shop - Tom from Mongoose wrote a great piece on this
Go find the most expensive bat in the shop from a retailer you repsect, then walk around picking out bats in your price range and below - then compare them with a mallet / ball against your datum bat.
If buying from an online, chose a retailer/bat manufacturer that you trust, will provide you a g1 / g2 etc bat and not just grab you something for the hell of selling it
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Hi Andy,
I assume when you first started off you worked from a part made cleft? At what stage did you go on to first handle them yourself then press them? Did you have the opportunity to press clefts at someone else's workshop or did you jump straight in the deep end?
Dan
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Hi Andy,
I assume when you first started off you worked from a part made cleft? At what stage did you go on to first handle them yourself then press them? Did you have the opportunity to press clefts at someone else's workshop or did you jump straight in the deep end?
Dan
Yes I did, I started buying from Bill and James at Fusion Cricket. James was always helpful on the phone with hints and tips for shaping. Then clefts from Talisman
I rehandled a few old broken bats by hand and then after discussions with a joiner got a jig made up for a table saw.
Pressing is something you need to learn I've seen one for the best guys in the world pressing and had a chance to chat with him. Chatting and doing is completely different though so it takes a bit of time, plus my press is a bit different so different prinicipals apply
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Yeah I read somewhere that your press is different. It fascinates me the concept of pressing as it looks so simple but in reality I guess is a skill that takes a while to master I would imagine? I take it you had your press made by a local engineering firm?
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What is your favourite tool for concaving ? and what part of bat making do find hardest ??
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Round bottom plane and sometimes a clifton convex spokeshave
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Yeah I read somewhere that your press is different. It fascinates me the concept of pressing as it looks so simple but in reality I guess is a skill that takes a while to master I would imagine? I take it you had your press made by a local engineering firm?
Yep it is different. If you understand the willow and what it requires it isn't too bad but you can ruin some nice looking clefts on the press. The press was made in a few places, the majority or the design work, analysis and [control systems] dynamics of the press was done with help from a few friends that still work in the Race car industry, the frame etc done locally
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Are you proceeding with the new shape you mentioned a while ago?
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Yep it is different. If you understand the willow and what it requires it isn't too bad but you can ruin some nice looking clefts on the press. The press was made in a few places, the majority or the design work, analysis and [control systems] dynamics of the press was done with help from a few friends that still work in the Race car industry, the frame etc done locally
No wonder you're the one who hosts the "Ask the batmaker" sessions! Sounds almost as complex as building a race car, and we're only talking about pressing! Maybe we should call you "Dr Andy"?
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how many bats todate would you say you have made ?
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Are you proceeding with the new shape you mentioned a while ago?
Not sure, Buzz is getting an interesting shape so might use that one. Got a few in mind though but almost definately keep the Fabrica
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No wonder you're the one who hosts the "Ask the batmaker" sessions! Sounds almost as complex as building a race car, and we're only talking about pressing! Maybe we should call you "Dr Andy"?
There are a few phd research subjects that could be done on Cricket Bats.... If I ever have some spare time [well quite alot of it] then I do one. I like the techie questions though makes me sound like a geek when I answer them :D
Any bat maker could run an "Ask the Batmaker" session, it just so happens it is normally me. This time looking for Movember Donations :D :D :D :D
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/
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how many bats todate would you say you have made ?
Enough to keep a personal service and enough to have a 2 - 3 week waiting list. Today none I've been messing about with you guys
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did you learn to make bats yourself for did you learn it from another bat maker ?
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Cheers for answering all those questions Andy, im just starting out making a few part mades and am really enjoying it but its challenging so its nice 2 hear from a batmaker who seems so passionate and open about stuff, as generally the podshaving community seems 2 be one that is shrouded in mystery and cards are kept close 2 chests! Understandable especially after what happened with Kieran?? who set up heritage cricket!
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did you learn to make bats yourself for did you learn it from another bat maker ?
I learnt myself with some help from bat makers --- I started off a bit like Gary @Reback, I think, making a few electric guitars and generally messing around with wood.
A bit of background info - I've got a Honours Degree in Mechanical Engineering and specialised in Aerodynamics in my last year of Uni, then worked as a Race Engineer for a few seasons. Engineering has always intrigued me, if I see something that interests me I need to understand how it works and why it works at a theoretical level as well as a pratical level. That is how my mind works sadly.
When I started to play cricket, I played rugby most of my life, I got geekily involved in bats and why one was better then the other. I then decided to put my money where my mouth was and make one, I then end up here!
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Cheers for answering all those questions Andy, im just starting out making a few part mades and am really enjoying it but its challenging so its nice 2 hear from a batmaker who seems so passionate and open about stuff, as generally the podshaving community seems 2 be one that is shrouded in mystery and cards are kept close 2 chests! Understandable especially after what happened with Kieran?? who set up heritage cricket!
Nothing to hide you see stuff on videos etc and answering questions is fairly easy plus you keep a few things to yourself. Yep not sure what happened to Kieran, I vaguely remember having a minor spate with him about some post or other
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/ (http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/)
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how many bats todate would you say you have made ?
Enough to keep a personal service and enough to have a 2 - 3 week waiting list. Today none I've been messing about with you guys
Andy I also want to know the answer to the question 2-3 wek waiting list means nothing, you may only make 1 bat every 1 week or something
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Yeah not heard from him since then! Ive seen on his website that he has lowered his prices from what he was initially asking for. So have you moved out of your garage now? Do you have 2 purpose built workshop now? I have a smallish outbuilding that I have converted into a basic workshop for the time being! Spent most of my spare time there over the last few weeks . . . So apart from the essential tools what is your most important workshop device?
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Today none I've been messing about with you guys
Shocking - you should be nose to the grindstone making my bat!! ;) :o
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Andy I also want to know the answer to the question 2-3 wek waiting list means nothing, you may only make 1 bat every 1 week or something
You wont get a straight answer from me, unless you are the chap that processes my company returns that is, then you'll know
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Yeah not heard from him since then! Ive seen on his website that he has lowered his prices from what he was initially asking for. So have you moved out of your garage now? Do you have 2 purpose built workshop now? I have a smallish outbuilding that I have converted into a basic workshop for the time being! Spent most of my spare time there over the last few weeks . . . So apart from the essential tools what is your most important workshop device?
not checked hope he is doing ok, it took me a while before I decided I was comfortable with the product and start selling
Yep have an external workshop which I share with a joiner and a new one almost sorted
Best tool in the workshop - the Radio, then my drawknife
edit: actually device the Jig for the handles
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It leaves soft spots if not correctly done ---- so for example some may have a soft toe [others on here can confirm or deny for real world examples]
Cheers.
Another questions;
Why do bats have bow? What are benefit of bow and does it affect the sweetspot length/position by any chance?
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Andy - perhaps you would explain MMI the centre of percussion and how they relate to the sweet spot on a bat
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A bit of background info - I've got a Honours Degree in Mechanical Engineering
That'll explain the Monty Python recognition. I'm essentially a MechE too...
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That'll explain the Monty Python recognition. I'm essentially a MechE too...
What are your prices for the two limited edition grades you do? Answer via pm if you prefer. I need to set some budgets.
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Cheers.
Another questions;
Why do bats have bow? What are benefit of bow and does it affect the sweetspot length/position by any chance?
The bow I'd imagine was originally there for aesthetics. The bow effects the balance of a bat and therefore the sweetspot and it position but only a techie one the Centre of percussion
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Andy - perhaps you would explain MMI the centre of percussion and how they relate to the sweet spot on a bat
Hi Monty great 1st post.....
The centre of percussion will shift based on balance, bat weight and swing speed etc, this will move the COP, as you probably know asking a question like that, higer or lower. The same way adding grips to a handle or shaping a bat in certain way
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What are your prices for the two limited edition grades you do? Answer via pm if you prefer. I need to set some budgets.
LE is currently £220 - Inaugural Willow is POA as I get about 3 pieces in a year
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Thank you - as a follow up maybe you would explain the coefficient of restitution and how, if at all, you are able to make use of it in your pressing process?
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I think we did an entire thread on that previously?
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Thank you - as a follow up maybe you would explain the coefficient of restitution and how, if at all, you are able to make use of it in your pressing process?
Coefficient of Restitution or Apparent Coefficient of restitution Monty?
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Andy might of found his soul mate on this forum with monty
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Interesting. I had not considered that aspect and shall ponder further. Clearly the bat hitting ball involves a collision somewhat different to dropping a ball on the bat or hitting a bat with a mallet.
So how might that be worked into how you determine the optimum press?
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I think Andy has despaired of our ignorance and has created another account so he can talk these things over with someone who understands :D
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Andy might of found his soul mate on this forum with monty
Well if I'm honest to ask a question about Mass Moment of Interia [MMI] and Centre or Precussion is quite a clever question but you need to understand they are related as one, MMI, effects the other, otherwise you wouldn't put the 2 together. It wasn't just a wild guess or lucky question!
Saying that, then to ask a question about CoR [or ACoR] and pressing after a question like that is a bit stupid, as the answer is simple because pressing is related to rebound. So if you quote coefficient of restitution you should know this, therefore making the question like I said a bit stupid
EDIT: Monty may I was being a bit harsh here it isn't a stupid question I missed the bit about "If at all" so I appologise
Please combine this answer with the answer to your second question re: Optimum pressing
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The bow I'd imagine was originally there for aesthetics. The bow effects the balance of a bat and therefore the sweetspot and it position but only a techie one the Centre of percussion
Thank You :)
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Small edges, no concaving
Big edges, lots of concaving
Small edges, lots of concaving
Big edges, no concaving.
Which is best for a large middle or 'sweet spot'?
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Interesting. I had not considered that aspect and shall ponder further. Clearly the bat hitting ball involves a collision somewhat different to dropping a ball on the bat or hitting a bat with a mallet.
So how might that be worked into how you determine the optimum press?
Batted ball speed = q x Velocity of ball + (1 + q)Velocity of bat
Where q is calculated as follow q is the Bouncabilty of a bat or Apparent Coefficient of Restitution [ACoR]
Pressing is related to the willow its natural attributes, grains, volume etc and therefore the pressing pressure required, each piece of willow should be treated differently because of this. The pressing changes the elasiticity of the willow and therefore the rebound effects the willow.
As you can see ACoR being the initial multiplier this will have the biggest effect on batted ball speed . If ACoR remained constant and the ball velocity increased and the bat speed increased you wouldn't have the same increase as you would if you raised the ACoR.
There are ways of getting a really good pressing but it isn't really related to the CoR. CoR or ACoR is a product of good pressing so is batted ball speed.
So to answer your question, nothing that you mention determines the optimum pressing
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Small edges, no concaving
Big edges, lots of concaving
Small edges, lots of concaving
Big edges, no concaving.
Which is best for a large middle or 'sweet spot'?
In basic terms whichever of those options has the largest amount of wood in the middle for the weight. It isn't that straight cut but if everything else was equal that would the identifier of middle size.
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Hi Admins / Mods can someone lock this thread around Midday today please
Few more hours for some question and maybe Monty will be back :D
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Given that MMI is an integral function that has mass density of a body at a point along it's length, is the coincidence of the highest mass density with the centre of percussion the norm or can you create an offset bat where these are distributed, such as to generate a lighter pick up for example, with the highest mass density occurring at a point above the centre of percussion?
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What's the heaviest bat you have ever made?
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Is there any other wood that comes close to willow in terms of weight and density that a bat could be made from that would perfom simularly
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You could win something like this!!!!
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Given that MMI is an integral function that has mass density of a body at a point along it's length, is the coincidence of the highest mass density with the centre of percussion the norm or can you create an offset bat where these are distributed, such as to generate a lighter pick up for example, with the highest mass density occurring at a point above the centre of percussion?
In short yes, it made for a strange looking bat but this was just a prototype and can be worked on to make it loads better. I just got to busy to complete the profile shape
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9228/52497182.jpg)
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What's the heaviest bat you have ever made?
3lb 2oz I think
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Is there any other wood that comes close to willow in terms of weight and density that a bat could be made from that would perfom simularly
Nope unless you try just Salix Alba like the old days... You can't get the strength or elasticity required from other wood based on the shapes you will need e.g Oak weighs too much
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In short yes, it made for a strange looking bat but this was just a prototype and can be worked on to make it loads better. I just got to busy to complete the profile shape
([url]http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9228/52497182.jpg[/url])
It does make a funny profile doesn't it? I guess that you can do the same in reverse too...
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Whats the lightest (full size) bat you've ever made? (might as well after asking the heaviest!) after grips, stickers etc..
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When starting to design a bat profile do you technically decide upon the MMI, mass Density along length and CoP position that you want and then produce technical designs?
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Whats the lightest (full size) bat you've ever made? (might as well after asking the heaviest!) after grips, stickers etc..
2lb 6oz it was for a 1st Class Cricketer but didn't have my stickers on it :o
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Do you want me to lock? or happy to let it go on a little longer...
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When starting to design a bat profile do you technically decide upon the MMI, mass Density along length and CoP position that you want and then produce technical designs?
Yes I need to understand why the bat will perform and how it will perform base on the profile
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Yep lock please Peplow
Thanks Guys
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/