Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: tugga_5 on December 07, 2010, 08:32:56 PM
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Would anybody else love to feel a pro's bat to see what the ping is like? I wonder would it be much better than any other bat?
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Played against David Graveney's son who used one of Freddie's old Woodworm Flames, went nicely! Struck some big blows....
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I'd say it was a cracker! Would love to own one.
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Should be able to tell you soon if Mr Brimble comes out of hiding.
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Would anybody else love to feel a pro's bat to see what the ping is like? I wonder would it be much better than any other bat?
no diffrent to anyother bat apart from they have the main choice of low density willow.
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So they'd be thick without weighing too much?
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yes most of the light weight clefts are reserver for the pro's
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They wouldn't last that long but would they?
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I would imagine the pressing would be different in some instances allowing for better rebund from Ball 1, however some Pro's don't bother with the custom made idea. For example, KP has his bat made in India at 2'10 with 2 grips, nothing else specified, he say he relies on feel not ping so much.
Don't forget that most pro's will simply get the best of the shop bats...
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My flat is full of old pros bats (yes it's a very small flat!) - if anyone wants a net in London I'll bring a couple along. They're mainly Mongooses but got a few which I've had copied for players.
If I didn't say they were pro bats you probably wouldn't know just by looking at them.
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how long the bat lasts is to do with how they are pressed
with pro bats they dont have to last as long as they would for us normal crickets as they have 5 bats a year easy.
so the bats are pressed a little softer to perform better
where as bats to the general public will have to be pressed a little harder to optimise performance but also make sure they last more than one season!
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I suppose all pros are different. I hear Sachin gets bats sent to him from everywhere?
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I would imagine they would have a reduced lifespan in most cases sacrificing it for ping. Manufacturers usually carry out 1 year warrantys to secure a sale, giving us confidence in the brand etc.
Look at Sachins though, with care and attention to detail his bat is still going strong..
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Sachin's bat defo looks like it's been through the wars!
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I would imagine the pressing would be different in some instances allowing for better rebund from Ball 1, however some Pro's don't bother with the custom made idea. For example, KP has his bat made in India at 2'10 with 2 grips, nothing else specified, he say he relies on feel not ping so much.
Don't forget that most pro's will simply get the best of the shop bats...
Why would the pro's bats be pressed differently? We are always told that our bats are pressed to perfection etc so why are theirs done any differently... I'd hazard a guess at the only real difference between ours bats and the pro's would be grain structure and density.
Have had a hold of Graham Napier's 158* 20/20 bat, extremely heavy and would require serious guns to wield it!!
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Tom, whereabouts in London do you net?
We also have to give consideration that pros will net nearly everyday, reducing the lifespan of their bats
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I have to say I think this is largely a load of tosh. The reason pro bats seem better is because the people using them play more, have better timing and more ability than the rest of us.
A lot of bats are all the same - it is the person using them that makes the difference.
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Why would the pro's bats be pressed differently? We are always told that our bats are pressed to perfection etc so why are theirs done any differently... I'd hazard a guess at the only real difference between ours bats and the pro's would be grain structure and density.
Have had a hold of Graham Napier's 158* 20/20 bat, extremely heavy and would require serious guns to wield it!!
True, but ask PW88 and Simmy about it, asked they asked Rob Pack this question: the bats are pressed sifter to ensure maximum ping, as all pros care about is performance, not durability, hence they have 4-5 bats in their bag/locker.
Buzz, you're definitely right sbout the player part. Sachin could bat with a plank and still get runs no doubt!
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Why would the pro's bats be pressed differently? We are always told that our bats are pressed to perfection etc so why are theirs done any differently... I'd hazard a guess at the only real difference between ours bats and the pro's would be grain structure and density.
Have had a hold of Graham Napier's 158* 20/20 bat, extremely heavy and would require serious guns to wield it!!
The way in which a bat is pressed determines, or at least is a factor of, responsiveness of the blade. By making the bat be pressed in such a way that no netting or practice with it is required allows best possible performance. By standardly pressing them, I believe you can reduce performance in exchange for longevity.
I am not doubting that you are correct, however that would be my guess on so called Pro bats.
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I think we established a while ago as there being no such thing as 'pressing a bat softly'. The bat maker should have an idea when pressing a bat of what will be the best and this will stay the same for all. Density is the only real factor that would significantly increase the performance.
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This could be a question for one of the batmakers on here to clear up! Please do oblige!
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My pro bat is lovely!
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I think we established a while ago as there being no such thing as 'pressing a bat softly'. The bat maker should have an idea when pressing a bat of what will be the best and this will stay the same for all. Density is the only real factor that would significantly increase the performance.
It which case, I am mistaken. Learn something new everyday...
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My pro bat is lovely!
What bat Is it tim: i'm curious to know!
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If a pro bat is pressed soft to increase performance then why not, not press a bat at all?? I think soft pressing is the biggest mis-information there is about bat making!
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If a pro bat is pressed soft to increase performance then why not, not press a bat at all?? I think soft pressing is the biggest mis-information there is about bat making!
Surely with no pressing the damage caused by each ball strike would quickly render the bat useless. We all know how soft unpressed willow is, the tiniest touch against anything and our lovely new bat is dented.
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Yes of course jon but what im saying is thats the difference? If a pro is after performance then why not choose a non pressed bat? My interpretation of pressing is that it actually increases the performance of a bat, if done correctly! So in essence there is no such thing as soft pressing, merely correct pressing . . . .
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Yes of course jon but what im saying is thats the difference? If a pro is after performance then why not choose a non pressed bat? My interpretation of pressing is that it actually increases the performance of a bat, if done correctly! So in essence there is no such thing as soft pressing, merely correct pressing . . . .
Yeh I agree, totally unpressed will be dead I think.
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Are pro bats pressed soft or are just some shop bats pressed hard to reduce returns?
Bats are now pressed softer than they were years ago to get more performance (bats used to be soaked in Linseed oil to soften them up), but there is a point where pressed too softly that performance can drop. There's an optimum pressure for each clefts performance.
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Look for Norbs discussion on the Coefficient of Restitution and you'll understand that the ping off a non-pressed bat will be lower than a pressed bat, however the change of a momentum imbued by a softer bat is greater through a longer period of contact.
Where's Norbs when you need him ;) ?
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Agree with Dan, if the bat is too soft the ball will just dent into the bat and lose all its energy, if its too hard the "trampoline" sort of effect wont be there.
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My flat is full of old pros bats (yes it's a very small flat!) - if anyone wants a net in London I'll bring a couple along. They're mainly Mongooses but got a few which I've had copied for players.
If I didn't say they were pro bats you probably wouldn't know just by looking at them.
Tom id be up for a net in london to sample a few pro bats, let me know if you sort anything out
Mike
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Just to clear johans comment up, when we saw Rob he was trying to explain that his pro bats are no different to what anyone can get a hold of, other than the specs required for the individual. We can get customs as we already know. What he meant about pressing was: the bats are all pressed by hand after they are shaped etc to maximum performance, but what he does with the shelf bats and many of his 6000 pumas is press them maybe once more in an attempt to increase the bats longevity. You could tell the difference an extra press had with the sound the bat made on ball and mallet but the 'ping' was still there. He doesn't press bats softly, this would be ridiculous as we all know it would do more harm than good. His Puma sponsored batsmen do get choice selection of his low density willow though. But I expect this is the same anywhere else. Just thought id clear that up :)
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will Rob do a massive low density pres for a regular punte or is that specifically reserved for the pro's?
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It's all in the pick up and density as my one was meant for a pro and has a pick up like a 2lb9/10 with it being 2lb14 so works for me
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That would depend entirely On the willow available but he will do anything the customer requires.
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Just received a hefty telling from Rob that my quote about pro clefts was incorrect. The low density willow is also available to any punter and at the same price as listed which is £180. This is stated when ordering though and I have been told any customer ordering one of these 'bomb bats' (robs words not mine) must understand that the ball will explode off the bat but will only last 1-2 seasons Inc nets.
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Lol unlucky about the telling off mate. I might get a bomb bat then, 1-2 seasons of good use is pretty good!
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It wasn't a telling off lad, I asked him what he reserves for pros and the answer was a quite firm one. Just said everyone has access to the willow as long as they know the bats aren't going to last a very long time.
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Oh right, correction, firm telling in response!
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I bought a low grade cleft from Talisman a few months back to make a heavy practice bat. It was unpressed and I prepared with a mallet. Needless to say pressing is essential, it weighs 3lbs 5oz and has nowhere near the power or resilience and pressed cleft would have. I think I'd rather have a bat pressed to within an inch of its life than an unpressed bat.
A better bat won't make you time the ball better it just means when you mis-time the ball it doesn't dribble to cover.
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I follow the line that pressing 'soft' is definitely misleading. It is the depth of pressed willow that is important to a bat's response. As a general rule, a deeper pressing will improve durability, but reduce ball speed off the bat. A shallow press could provide what players experience as a 'trampoline' effect. But this of course depends on the quality of the cleft, and therefore a uniform ' shallow' press will not be optimum for all bats. Bat makers who still press each cleft on its merits will be close to optimising performance for every bat.
The trampoline effect occurs when the fibre/cell compression from impact recovers while the ball is still in contact with the bat, but on its exit path. Being able to tune that recovery to the contact time is what you ideally would try to engineer. If the pressed layer is deeper, then you have a stiffer layer that will deform less, and so return less energy to the ball, although paradoxically it will also absorb less energy from the ball during impact. It's very much swings and roundabouts, which makes 'tuning' a bat for optimum performance a complex process to get right repeatably
However, some perspective is also required, since the gains that could be made from pressing may be marginal compared to the influence of bat mass, bat speed, and technique. Hence we see some pro's (such as KP) stating that they are indifferent to the minute technicalities of their bats. If it feels right, and its coming from a trusted bat maker, then that's good enough. It doesn't stop other pros doing the opposite, and trying every trick possible to squeeze every ounce of performance from the bat. I've heard that Herschelle Gibbs for a while experimented with unpressed bats, which flew, but also broke at an alarming rate. I've also heard he experimented with many other things as well, but that's another story...
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"I've heard that Herschelle Gibbs for a while experimented with unpressed bats", he did say in the IPL last year when asked about his bats that they were unpressed. At first I thought I'd misheard him.
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I follow the line that pressing 'soft' is definitely misleading. It is the depth of pressed willow that is important to a bat's response. As a general rule, a deeper pressing will improve durability, but reduce ball speed off the bat. A shallow press could provide what players experience as a 'trampoline' effect. But this of course depends on the quality of the cleft, and therefore a uniform ' shallow' press will not be optimum for all bats. Bat makers who still press each cleft on its merits will be close to optimising performance for every bat.
The trampoline effect occurs when the fibre/cell compression from impact recovers while the ball is still in contact with the bat, but on its exit path. Being able to tune that recovery to the contact time is what you ideally would try to engineer. If the pressed layer is deeper, then you have a stiffer layer that will deform less, and so return less energy to the ball, although paradoxically it will also absorb less energy from the ball during impact. It's very much swings and roundabouts, which makes 'tuning' a bat for optimum performance a complex process to get right repeatably
However, some perspective is also required, since the gains that could be made from pressing may be marginal compared to the influence of bat mass, bat speed, and technique. Hence we see some pro's (such as KP) stating that they are indifferent to the minute technicalities of their bats. If it feels right, and its coming from a trusted bat maker, then that's good enough. It doesn't stop other pros doing the opposite, and trying every trick possible to squeeze every ounce of performance from the bat. I've heard that Herschelle Gibbs for a while experimented with unpressed bats, which flew, but also broke at an alarming rate. I've also heard he experimented with many other things as well, but that's another story...
Norbs 2! :o
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Norbs 2!!!! - Frankspop does this for a living
I think the trampoline effect is theoretically sound but in practice the the ability to hold the ball through the bat cycle is where it all goes wrong. Even with soft pressing or no pressing this I believe wouldn't occur but I think that is Frankspop is saying anyways.
I would also tend to agree that bat mass, bat speed, and technique help to make a great bat but I would like to say that a badly pressed regardless of mass and how fast you could swing is going to be poor. So I would say pressing is still key and not marginal as a very well press bat could in my view out perform a run of the mill pressed bat regardless of bat mass and swing speed. [please note I left technique out towards the end :D]
Beachcricket on the unpressed carry on hammering mate you'll get there!!! [pm me for a tip with it]
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Willow is staggeringly soft when unpressed and when I first hit the cleft it was like hitting damp ground, the mallet just sunk into the bat face.
SAF - Can't say no to a free tip! pm'd you.
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Willow is staggeringly soft when unpressed and when I first hit the cleft it was like hitting damp ground, the mallet just sunk into the bat face.
SAF - Can't say no to a free tip! pm'd you.
Hit the nail on the head :D --- you hit enough balls with an unpressed [if it survives] you get a pressed bat
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Hey prowannabe, I asked for the low density willow as I would like to order a new bat every season from rob. ;) Can't wait till it arrives.
By the way i like your new avatar
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Norbs 2! :o
Flattered to be considered in the same breath as Norbs on this forum! We are different beasts, he the enquirying engineer and master craftsmen living and breathing bat making, me the engineer and academic with much less time to devote to bats. When the kiddy winks have grown up a bit and I get some 'home' time back I will most likely dabble in my own workshop with bats and learn some more. Meanwhile ongoing work with Gunn & Moore keeps me up to speed and in the game!
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What sort of prices do pro's bats go for around here?
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I have herd you can get a Nathan Hauritz is selling at 80 nicker a bat with a jumper thrown in