Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Custom Made => Topic started by: GJ on January 12, 2011, 10:22:33 PM
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I wasnt really sure where to put this but here goes... There seems to be a lot of talk these days with low density clefts, huge edges etc. And companies are advertising this within their descriptions. Take for example the new Millichamp Amplus. Made from huge oversized clefts to meet comsumers needs.
If these low density clefts are rare, what happens when demand for these products become too high and they are unable to meet demand. Do they openly admit they are unable to meet their requirements and will wait until the right one comes in, perhaps losing a customer/sale or will they side track and use other methods. Perhaps using a so called 'standard' cleft or using methods of drying willow further? Not questioning millichamps integrity, just whether its a case with most manufacturers. Afterall we heard the saga with Mike's famous Gray Nicolls oblivion. Purchasing what was described as a 'pro' quality bat, and him getting what was close to the description of a twig. Now maybe the average punter wont realise the difference in overall size of the bat, but us more observant among the forum would pick this up a mile off and i'm sure would kick up a stink.
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The oversized cleft is not low density as such. It's a cleft that has been cut to a larger size than normal. Not sure of the numbers but let's say if from a round you would get x normal sized clefts. From the same round you could also get fewer larger or oversized clefts. Does that make sense.
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load of hype the whole thing
another fad like heartwood and grain grains
Pro bats most look like twiggs as you say
Low density just look at most pro bats there hardly massive looking are they
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An oversize cleft will allow a higher spine height to be achieved. Not necessarily link with low density.
After discussions in the last few days, I'd advise you to not buy into it too much.
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I agree. I'm gonna get myself a classical shaped bat that performs. Whilst I acknowledge the real pucka stuff is sought after. I reckon you should worry more about the pressing than density.
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Didnt know oversized clefts were different drom low density willow. Dont think you can say its all 'hype', the more wood behind the bat will increase performance. Surely to achieve a higher than average spine on a bat, it will also require the cleft to be naturally light weight?
Whilst I agree pressing is the most determining factor on the performance of a bat, denisty also contributes. Cant beat a classical shape bat, like the old retro Salix's and Millichamps.
100 Not out, your inbox is full if you would like a reply to your PM...
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Didnt know oversized clefts were different drom low density willow. Dont think you can say its all 'hype', the more wood behind the bat will increase performance. Surely to achieve a higher than average spine on a bat, it will also require the cleft to be naturally light weight?
Whilst I agree pressing is the most determining factor on the performance of a bat, denisty also contributes. Cant beat a classical shape bat, like the old retro Salix's and Millichamps.
Yes, but it isn't the be all and end all that some would have us think.
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Its simple really there is no trickery involved . . . . take the 2 M&H profiles the Amplus (big edges with the spine being just a little bigger) the Distinction (tiny edges huge spine) its not magic but rather down to the skill of the batmaker shifting weight.
You could ask for both in 2.10lb and there will be the same mass in both.
I am yet to see a bat with 35mm+ edges with 70mm+ spine (apart from laminates).
Its all trends/fashion i.e heartwood, no heartwood, concaving, no concaving
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Its simple really there is no trickery involved . . . . take the 2 M&H profiles the Amplus (big edges with the spine being just a little bigger) the Distinction (tiny edges huge spine) its not magic but rather down to the skill of the batmaker shifting weight.
You could ask for both in 2.10lb and there will be the same mass in both.
I am yet to see a bat with 35mm+ edges with 70mm+ spine (apart from laminates).
Its all trends/fashion i.e heartwood, no heartwood, concaving, no concaving
It's still possible to make two bats in the exact same shape and size and for them to have different weights though.
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Is it?
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other tricks seem to be to reduce the blade length, slope the shoulders, until recently carbon handles, scoops. I have a CA Gel Laminate and while it weighs 2'7 with nearly 40mm edges, the spine isn't very high and it picks up closer to 2'9/10.
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Yes, willow's a natural product and no two trees (or indeed clefts from the same tree) will have the exact same properties of the wood.
Unless I'm very much mistaken it's possible for two bats with the same volume of wood to have different weights, this would be caused by the wood being having differing densities.
The big question is, if you have more wood but it's of a lower density, does that give increased performance?
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Yes
more times than not
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other tricks seem to be to reduce the blade length, slope the shoulders, until recently carbon handles, scoops. I have a CA Gel Laminate and while it weighs 2'7 with nearly 40mm edges, the spine isn't very high and it picks up closer to 2'9/10.
Or shave the Bat width, as in the Joker.
I'm sure all this was discussed when the Joker first appeared. People assumed they were from lighter or overdried clefts but it was simply careful rearrangement of wood from the length & width to the middle, thus giving you 'meat' where its needed.
I think batmakers weigh & grade every cleft once its been cut to its final size - I'd be interested to know what the max & min weights that typically come with a job lot of willow?
Also, there must be a reason why brands sometime only sell a certain shape in e.g. 2.9 upwards, as there probably isn't enough light willow to get a decent sized result in a lightweight bat.
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Or shave the Bat width, as in the Joker.
I'm sure all this was discussed when the Joker first appeared. People assumed they were from lighter or overdried clefts but it was simply careful rearrangement of wood from the length & width to the middle, thus giving you 'meat' where its needed.
I thought that the Joker was only length challenged, not width challenged?
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I thought that the Joker was only length challenged, not width challenged?
Its 4 or 5mm narrower from memory.
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does that not make it a harrow?
Have they rounded the edges as well, I know some bats, Bradbury for example, have sharp edges - if that's the right term for it.
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I can confirm it's slightly narrower with huge edges yet not a great spine height.... Seems to go pretty well tho :)
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The blade of the Joker is harrow width.
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does that not make it a harrow?
Have they rounded the edges as well, I know some bats, Bradbury for example, have sharp edges - if that's the right term for it.
4mm less chances of edging the ball then!!
Bradbury will be introducing their new range for 2011 with rounded edges. No more hassle of rounding the edges or looking at dented edges
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4mm less chances of edging the ball then!!
Bradbury will be introducing their new range for 2011 with rounded edges. No more hassle of rounding the edges or looking at dented edges
Didn't Hayden make a big thing in his book about not having rounded edges - bit off topic.
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4mm less chances of edging the ball then!!
Bradbury will be introducing their new range for 2011 with rounded edges. No more hassle of rounding the edges or looking at dented edges
Or more chance of that squirt through gully going to the slips...
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I'd never give away the inside edge of my bat, scores me too many runs to fine leg!
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I'd never give away the inside edge of my bat, scores me too many runs to fine leg!
Likewise my outside edge - loads of runs over slips to third man!
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The blade of the Joker is harrow width.
hate to be harsh but your saying people who buy a joker are paying for what is just a harrow with big edges and long handle????
It must be the most expensive harrow ever????
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hate to be harsh but your saying people who buy a joker are paying for what is just a harrow with big edges and long handle????
It must be the most expensive harrow ever????
By this measurement, if you buy a Mongoose MMi3 you buy a size 1 or 2 bat with a very long handle.... Must the most expensive ever if you get the Custom Pro or whatever it is called now!
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hate to be harsh but your saying people who buy a joker are paying for what is just a harrow with big edges and long handle????
It must be the most expensive harrow ever????
In the same way that the people who buy a SH are paying for a harrow with slightly longer and wider blade, and longer handle...yes.
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In the same way that the people who buy a SH are paying for a harrow with slightly longer and wider blade, and longer handle...yes.
Well put Charlie, it's the same as people buying small mens, when almost all small mens pads are youths pads!
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Tumo not quite right there mate check the sizes and check the padding used in most Youth pads you find there mainly very different indeed to small mens pads which normally use the top padding were youth tend to go with mid range padding to help with costing
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Tumo not quite right there mate check the sizes and check the padding used in most Youth pads you find there mainly very different indeed to small mens pads which normally use the top padding were youth tend to go with mid range padding to help with costing
The same is true of the weight and balance of the Joker, etc. versus a Harrow....
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Tumo not quite right there mate check the sizes and check the padding used in most Youth pads you find there mainly very different indeed to small mens pads which normally use the top padding were youth tend to go with mid range padding to help with costing
I have Dave, and I've also asked around at shops like Owzat, and a couple of brands, there is little difference in either, if you buy the top level of each size (youth and mens/small mens) for most brands there isn't much difference in terms of padding, but in price it is disproportionate.
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If you label a bat SH, you expect SH Dimensions for the blade. If you label a bat Harrow then you expect a blade with Harrow dimensions. If I sell a bat on ebay as a SH when the blade is Harrow then I will have to refund the buyer if he complains, surely as the item doesn't meet the description.
Now I am not saying the Joker remotely meets my simple example above, but the seller should explain in selling the item that the blade width is Harrow just as he has explained the shortened blade and long handle. Maybe it is explained somewhere, but it's the first I've heard of it.