Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: keysersolze on January 18, 2011, 08:12:01 PM
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Hi Guys,
I have just got round to watching Shane Watson thrash England in that one dayer and noticed his bat looked massive!!!! quite different to a standard GM Flare or is it the GM+ Flare? Did anyone see any of his bats at GM when they visited? I remeber someone mentioned something about his bats being an 808 or something. I am just curious maybe those in the know on the forum might shed some light on this?
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kranzbuhler?
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All I know is that he is meant to be extremely fussy over his handles. Would not surprise me If it isn't a GM.
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Does he not use scats??
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Ok guys thanks for that i just had a close look and the profile of his bat looked more Luna than anything!!
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the flare is his own profile ! he took his own bat to them and they made a range out of it
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He uses a standard Flare and apparently an 808
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Fussy over handles? Number of grips or shape?
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http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/108013560/Getty-Images-Sport
did they mention anything about his handles?
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He has over sized handles then shaped a certain way if I remember right
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Tony Zucconi looks after Watson's requirements here in Au regarding bats and they are definitely all made by GM
He is super fussy but he main requirement is that they ping and pick up has also been known to knock back plenty of bats that are sent to him
Tony looks after all the GM sponsored players here in Au for GM
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He has over sized handles then shaped a certain way if I remember right
any ideas what he gets done to the handles?
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he takes all the twine off like a lot of pro's do i hear and just tapes the handle up
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any benefit / point to that?
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i hear two fold might be wrong but i have herd something regarding flex and something regarding weight?????
I know a couple of lads at Lancs do it but beats me...
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Hussey said it allows more flex in the handle
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ok thanks for that guys his bat just seemed massive but might have been a trick of the light, and Gm do say he uses the Flare not just the usual endorsing rubbish a lot of manufacturers use when their players use stickered up bats. I would like to see the bat he used in the last one day match now after hitting all those big sixes even the commentators thought his bat was on steroids or something the distance they were going!!!
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he takes all the twine off like a lot of pro's do i hear and just tapes the handle up
What tape do they use? Presumably something light like electricians tape?
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Watson's bat is to big and it is in my opinion laminate.
I do know that a few Victorian boys have used laminates recently so it is wide spread in Australian first class ranks
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Interesting, how do you KNOW? Care to name names?
Watson's bat is to big and it is in my opinion laminate.
I do know that a few Victorian boys have used laminates recently so it is wide spread in Australian first class ranks
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Friend with a few of them but to name names would be abusing their trust but let me tell you it is going on.
I service some of their bats and infrequently organise some low density clefts for some of them as they sometimes do not get the best bats from their sponsors.
But most of the laminates are coming out of Matrixx in India
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Friend with a few of them but to name names would be abusing their trust but let me tell you it is going on.
I service some of their bats and infrequently organise some low density clefts for some of them as they sometimes do not get the best bats from their sponsors.
But most of the laminates are coming out of Matrixx in India
Surely then it is your responsibility to go to the authorities if players are using illegal bats?
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Surely then it is your responsibility to go to the authorities if players are using illegal bats?
Fully agree....!
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Jon it is happening everywhere and little me is not going take on something like that.
David and Goliath not for me and I am not the self righteous type :)
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Anyone got any kosher Newbery stickers? Need to sticker up that Laminate I have as a proper bat...
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Friend with a few of them but to name names would be abusing their trust but let me tell you it is going on.
I service some of their bats and infrequently organise some low density clefts for some of them as they sometimes do not get the best bats from their sponsors.
But most of the laminates are coming out of Matrixx in India
If these bats are illegal, why would a first class cricketer, let alone an international star even contemplate using one? Imagine if a pro golfer got caught using a non conforming driver....
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Mr Brimble said that RP's Kahuna in the 2009 Ashes was a bit suspect also.
I'd hate to see someone in club cricket use one let alone internationally. It is cheating.
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What tape do they use? Presumably something light like electricians tape?
no it like a white zink oxide tape
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If these bats are illegal, why would a first class cricketer, let alone an international star even contemplate using one? Imagine if a pro golfer got caught using a non conforming driver....
to get an advantage in the cut throat world of pro sport?
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there are blatant laminates. . . the asian one for example. . . . . . ihsan, ca , sf etc . . most of the ones i ve seen you can see the join from a mile, in my opinion these type are laminated for size. to make it look bigger rather than performance.
then there are the other type of laminates, where you cannot see the join,they look "normal" in size - it is literall a very thin sheet of willow cleft stuck to the face of a bat. very very hard to tell these. these are laminated for performance. i have a few pics will upload at some point.
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Be interesting to see the difference.
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Got a CA Gel - 2'7.5 (with 2 grips) and 40mm edges. It will give you an advantage and you can't see the join without very close inspection. If it wasn't for the Gel stickers, you probably wouldn't even recognise it.
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then there are the other type of laminates, where you cannot see the join,they look "normal" in size - it is literall a very thin sheet of willow cleft stuck to the face of a bat. very very hard to tell these. these are laminated for performance. i have a few pics will upload at some point.
Would be interested to see those pics, don't know much about laminated bats other they are a bit 'del boy'
Stick them in a new thread if you can mate
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Look at mine in the for sale section under special talisman lam pics of one of these types of lam there
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where is the join on your CA.
how thick are the two pieces joined together.
i bet they wont be 2/3 mm thick.
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Look at mine in the for sale section under special talisman lam pics of one of these types of lam there
Can't seem to find the post roco
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2nd page 5th up from bottom in the for sale section it's a performance lam made by Tom keeley for use at test level
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Oh right found it.
So Newbery have effectively made an illegal bat for a test player, is that right?
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If that's the way you look at it but tim is an independent bat maker who makes for newbery I think
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can of worms
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No skin off my nose mate, but I see what you mean. Why are they frowned upon then? I have not read much about the subject to be honest
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Well from what I have been told at least 5 top internationals use them but it gives an unfair advantage to the batsmen I suppose
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It is cheating
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How is it cheating then? What advantages do you get from using a laminated bad?
Excuse my ignorance chaps
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It is cheating as they are banned
I think the theory was 25% more power but don't quote me
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No, I wasn't defending their use, just asked how is it considered cheating? Something about 2 pieces of wood joined together?
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I never said you were lol
They are banned due to it giving the batsmen an unfair advantage but the rule is it's made from two pieces of wood where bats can only be made from one I think
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Oh right, so it's basically the way it's made?
Just having a read through of Mike's post comparing it to a B52
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illegal is a better word. A bat must be made of 1 piece of willow excluding the handle.
However, any bat that has been repaired can be made of more than one piece of wood. It's the loophole the international players exploit I believe.
The bat cannot be used in competitive cricket. I would take this to mean higher level league cricket upwards. If some guy in a bottom level village league game has one, it really doesn't matter. It can be used (based on this loose definition) in friendlies/non competitive matches and netting.
Cheating is a strong word when you consider carbon handles are still floating around.
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then there are the other type of laminates, where you cannot see the join,they look "normal" in size - it is literall a very thin sheet of willow cleft stuck to the face of a bat. very very hard to tell these. these are laminated for performance. i have a few pics will upload at some point.
I have a newbery one of these. It's very hard to see the join, and in fact the only way you can really tell is by noticing the difference in grain structure on the front and back.
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Pics pls
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I have a newbery one of these. It's very hard to see the join, and in fact the only way you can really tell is by noticing the difference in grain structure on the front and back.
That's the way I tell 7 on back 10 straight on front
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Will do pics when it's finished its refurb.
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Trying to get back on subject guys a little has anyone on here ever got close to a Watson bat then? As it was interesting to hear the talk of his match bat being a laminate!!!! As i spoke to the head of a big cricket retailer chain today and he also said Watsons bat was a laminate. I however can not confirm or deny it is up to the individual to do, but it would be nice if the guys who visited the GM factory let us know if they saw a Watson Bat or not and what was its actual shape? Is it similar to the flare etc.
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Trying to get back on subject guys a little has anyone on here ever got close to a Watson bat then? As it was interesting to hear the talk of his match bat being a laminate!!!! As i spoke to the head of a big cricket retailer chain today and he also said Watsons bat was a laminate. I however can not confirm or deny it is up to the individual to do, but it would be nice if the guys who visited the GM factory let us know if they saw a Watson Bat or not and what was its actual shape? Is it similar to the flare etc.
It becomes an even more interesting point. Is someone making Flare shaped laminates for Watson...?
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Here is a close picture I can find of Watson's bat;
(http://www.pakpassion.net/gallery/files/3/5/4/4/6/IMG_0003.jpg)
(http://www.pakpassion.net/gallery/files/3/5/4/4/6/IMG_0002.jpg)
To be honest, it doesn't look that big...
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Performance are not overly huge as would stand out but can't see gm letting there players use them but you never know
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good try but a bat from a test last july probably isn't the one he has now in the one-dayers. Wouldn't be surprised is he uses a normal lighter bat for test cricket and a heavy one for one-dayers.
GM might supply them whole and they get modded in Aus?
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(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/126500/126555.jpg)
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good try but a bat from a test last july probably isn't the one he has now in the one-dayers.
I was about to say that his bat in the one dayers is much bigger than that
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/496426.html?search=shane+watson;page=1
Although that pic may be on a slight angle
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I was about to say that his bat in the one dayers is much bigger than that
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/496426.html?search=shane+watson;page=1[/url]
Although that pic may be on a slight angle
This one could be Amplus :D:D:D:D
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Some great pics there and i have to say the bat in the pictures does look familiar to the GM Flare, great to have so much feedback etc. Still no closer to solving the riddle of GM Flare or not in the last ODI or maybe he is using the Flare + in the one day internationals. On another note i saw a GM Icon 707+ today lovely bat great looking and such a good pick up only felt like a 2.9 or maybe even a 2.8 the pick up on it was that good.
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All this talk is making me want a GM now. wouldn't have a bloody clue what model to go for though!
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http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/108068162/AFP
It is pretty huge! Can't see the join though.
Are we making excuses for him hitting the ball so far, when the real reason is he's a better player than us? :D
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[url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/108068162/AFP[/url]
It is pretty huge! Can't see the join though.
Are we making excuses for him hitting the ball so far, when the real reason is he's a better player than us? :D
I was going to say, his physique is such that he really should be hitting the ball a massive distance, and for once this tour, he has actually been seeing and timing it properly!
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[url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/108068162/AFP[/url]
It is pretty huge! Can't see the join though.
Are we making excuses for him hitting the ball so far, when the real reason is he's a better player than us? :D
That looks like Trotts one we saw that the factory ! its huge !!
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Gents lets be careful who we accuse of using laminates and who we accuse of making them. Accusations may not have happened yet, but remember anyone can read this forum and if a batmaker sees remarks that could be damaging to them the forum will be in a spot of bother.
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Well i think its great Watson hit the ball that far!! I love to see a good innings but that bat looks very large and a little different to a standard flare. Maybe its the Flare + but either way he is a great player as are a lot of others playing at test level!! But come on GM guys are reading this and could throw some light on it!!!!
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That last pic of Watson's bat looks just like my Laver Reserve-same profile,shape and toe guard!
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Gents lets be careful who we accuse of using laminates and who we accuse of making them. Accusations may not have happened yet, but remember anyone can read this forum and if a batmaker sees remarks that could be damaging to them the forum will be in a spot of bother.
100%, this thread has gone from "did anyone see Watsons bat when they visited GM" (or something to that effect) to unsupported inuendo about his bat being legal. Does everyone with a big bat now have to suffer suggestion?
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100%, this thread has gone from "did anyone see Watsons bat when they visited GM" (or something to that effect) to unsupported inuendo about his bat being legal. Does everyone with a big bat now have to suffer suggestion?
I think you'll find that one particular member stated this was true and that other international players also do it. We have no corroboration though so have no idea whether it is true. If it is, would anyone have seen his bat?
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i too have heard stories of pro's using laminates.
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I'm interested to know whether any of the members that did the GM tour got any inside info on specific test players requirements, especially Watson.
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I think there was some info on Watsons specs in another topic about their visit to GM
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I do remember a video I watched a while ago and he said he uses a 2'9 for tests, for t-20 and one dayers he uses a 2'10. I can't remember where I saw it, but it was probably 1 year ago now, so he has probably changed his weights but I'd imagine he still uses a heavier bats for the one dayers and t-20's
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We did get a look at one of Akmal's bat, cant really remember anything different about it from a normal Flare to be honest.
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A friend once told me unicorns exist, doesn't mean it is true.
Be very careful with these people who 'are friendly with pros' and 'get told things that could damage the sport' unless they are willing to back up their claims with evidence. We've had an example in this thread, someone giving it the big 'I know something you don't know' so they feel popular, but when asked to offer any kind of evidence to back up their claims, they couldn't do that for reasons x, y and z.
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A guys I used to play club cricket with had a laminated bat that was given to him by a South African first class player. Doesn't mean he ever used it in a first class match but he certainly owned one and knew what one was.
If anyone really wants to know who the player was then I can pm them as it's no huge secret.
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A guys I used to play club cricket with had a laminated bat that was given to him by a South African first class player. Doesn't mean he ever used it in a first class match but he certainly owned one and knew what one was.
If anyone really wants to know who the player was then I can pm them as it's no huge secret.
Yes please.
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So Jon what you are saying that laminates don't exist in the pro ranks?? Of course they do and Shane Watson bats at 2.10oz and do you really think the bat he used in the ODI in question can be that big at that weight.
You are going on like this is another betting scandal, the ICC will do nothing about it as they have even created a loop hole in the laws so any player that is caught using one can simply say that their bat had been repaired and was returned to them in that state.
Storm in a tea cup mate, I will not name names as it is none of your business who these players are but I will say is the next time you see Afridi bat just take a closer look at the stick he uses.
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I really don't believe it's as widespread as you're making out, John.
1. The ICC have no say in what makes a bat legal.
2. A laminate for the pro isn't designed to make the bat look bigger, it's designed for performance.
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So Jon what you are saying that laminates don't exist in the pro ranks?? Of course they do and Shane Watson bats at 2.10oz and do you really think the bat he used in the ODI in question can be that big at that weight.
You are going on like this is another betting scandal, the ICC will do nothing about it as they have even created a loop hole in the laws so any player that is caught using one can simply say that their bat had been repaired and was returned to them in that state.
Storm in a tea cup mate, I will not name names as it is none of your business who these players are but I will say is the next time you see Afridi bat just take a closer look at the stick he uses.
I may well be wrong here (it's been known!), but from what I've read on here it seems that while you can use lamination to make a bat much bigger for the weight there is no real benifit to doing so, and that these mystical 'performance laminates' are normal looking sizes.
I've seen some giant bats that weight 2'9/2'20 or something similar and certainly weren't laminated.
I don't doubt that a few pro players do use one in order to try and gain an advantage but I do have my doubts about any vastly improved performance.
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I may well be wrong here (it's been known!), but from what I've read on here it seems that while you can use lamination to make a bat much bigger for the weight there is no real benifit to doing so, and that these mystical 'performance laminates' are normal looking sizes.
I've seen some giant bats that weight 2'9/2'20 or something similar and certainly weren't laminated.
I don't doubt that a few pro players do use one in order to try and gain an advantage but I do have my doubts about any vastly improved performance.
When I get mine back from Newbery, I'll be able to find out. It certainly doesn't look any larger than a normal bat for its weight...
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if he uses a standard flare at 2'10, don't see a huge issue with him moving up to a flare+ at 2'12 for ODI's. It will have bigger edges for sure.
Big issue seems to be that someone who is an un-named expert, has said Watson uses a laminate.
On the issue of laminates, either the ICC bans all illegal bats properly ie. carbon handles still knocking around in club cricket, laminates, repairs OR it doesn't.
Creating loop holes only makes things worse.
eg. I'm also right in thinking anyone can use a laminate, even if it started off as a laminate as all they have to say is the face has been repaired?
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So Jon what you are saying that laminates don't exist in the pro ranks?? Of course they do and Shane Watson bats at 2.10oz and do you really think the bat he used in the ODI in question can be that big at that weight.
You are going on like this is another betting scandal, the ICC will do nothing about it as they have even created a loop hole in the laws so any player that is caught using one can simply say that their bat had been repaired and was returned to them in that state.
Storm in a tea cup mate, I will not name names as it is none of your business who these players are but I will say is the next time you see Afridi bat just take a closer look at the stick he uses.
No, I'm saying I don't know and I can't prove it so I'm not going to claim otherwise.
Whether or not any serious action would be taken I don't know, but surely if someone loves the game their have a moral responsibility to at least report what they know? Throughout life I've never understood people who half tell a secret. People who make a claim but when questioned, are unwilling to say any more. For instance 'I know who really shot JFK, but I can't tell you'...so what's the point of saying you know? It is either a secret in which case nothing should be said, or it is not in which case everything can be said. Never understood this inbetween attitude.
You know the reason Shane Watson's bat hits the ball further than yours or mine? Because he's a lot better than us, thats why. No magic willow, no laminate, no rubber trampoline sheet imbedded in the bat, no wonder handle. Just because he is very good.
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if he uses a standard flare at 2'10, don't see a huge issue with him moving up to a flare+ at 2'12 for ODI's. It will have bigger edges for sure.
Big issue seems to be that someone who is an un-named expert, has said Watson uses a laminate.
On the issue of laminates, either the ICC bans all illegal bats properly ie. carbon handles still knocking around in club cricket, laminates, repairs OR it doesn't. Creating loop holes only makes things worse.
Option 1: They could have colluded with batmakers and made it illegal to add anything to the bat, even in repairing it. Bats wouldn't last as long and you'd have to buy a new one when you broke the old one. More money for the batmakers.
Option 2: "Anything goes" and as long as the blade was substantially willow, especially on the striking face, innovation would be allowed to enhance the performance of the bats and test matches and T20 alike would be 6 fests, everyone would complain about pro cricketers hitting the ball too far, like golf, and those amateur players amongst us would revel in the new technology that made us look like much better batsmen.
Ok, maybe that last bit is wishful thinking.... :(
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Sorry MCC laws which the ICC police??
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Dont look at edge size and assume that due to the size they are laminated bats. There are many CA/Malik bats about that are huge for the weight as they are probably overdried and are made from light clefts. These are bigger than many laminates I have seen and are simply one piece of wood.
Pro bats that are laminated would have a thin strip of veneer added to the front and are not easy to spot once the edge tape has been added.These are solely for performance and do make a significant difference. No pro would be just looking for a big lump of laminated wood as this would attract unnecessary attention from other players, umpires and of course the eagle eyed forum members ! :D
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Oh and JohnG, a bit of friendly advice that can apply to life outside the forum as well as within, if you have information that is none of our business, don't talk about it with us and get defensive when we show interest :)
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Dont look at edge size and assume that due to the size they are laminated bats. There are many CA/Malik bats about that are huge for the weight as they are probably overdried and are made from light clefts. These are bigger than many laminates I have seen and are simply one piece of wood.
Pro bats that are laminated would have a thin strip of veneer added to the front and are not easy to spot once the edge tape has been added.These are solely for performance and do make a significant difference. No pro would be just looking for a big lump of laminated wood as this would attract unnecessary attention from other players, umpires and of course the eagle eyed forum members ! :D
Indeed, look at the Asian Lekkas that were recently for sale. 2'9 and 40mm edges. I'm sorry that isn't art in batmaking, it is over drying. Sure they look imposing but it comes at a cost.
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Sorry MCC laws which the ICC police??
Both police. And it's hardly a loophole created by the MCC - laminates are illegal under all the laws (you can't even repair etc)
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Indeed, look at the Asian Lekkas that were recently for sale. 2'9 and 40mm edges. I'm sorry that isn't art in batmaking, it is over drying. Sure they look imposing but it comes at a cost.
Touched on this already - unless you have proof, word your comments carefully.
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Touched on this already - unless you have proof, word your comments carefully.
The proof is in the pictures. Im not suggesting the Lekkas are laminate, they are not. The statement apply generally to bats today. Monster bats with low weight are made from low density (that is low moisture) wood. There is no magical batmaking technique that has suddenly allowed bats to double in size without an increase in weight. Indeed Laver advertises it as an option. They will give a cleft a secondary drying period in order to be able to create a bigger bat for the same weight. They also say they will not guarantee it for so long. So an admission that more drying means less life.
Think when we see a pro with a bat that seems big and goes well, we are more likely seeing one of these dry bats as opposed to a laminate.
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I can make a original 3lb bat and get it to 2lb 6oz in 6 weeks without taking any wood off at all..
Called a airing cupboard and constant heat then bingo and to be honest the performance is the same but durability is worst than a Kashmir
The truth is there not many so called Low density clefts around and even less availble to us mortals.
After all the talk of this that and the other i care about 3 things
1.The Pick up
2.The performance
3.The feel
I after doing experiments have no time for Laminates/ Low density or any of that thing
Do not get me wrong having a nice looking stick is good too but it plain and simple if a bat has a big middle and do es not feel to heavy then i'am happy..
The biggest cost of a cricket bat by most brands is the look of the thing
Laminations good ones are very rare too do not be fooled most are made to make a bad looking bat look better
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Trying to this topic back on track guys!!! This comment going out to any GM workers who read this forum maybe Mr Lowry is it of GM any chance we could have a look see at Shane Watsons bat?? I personally am a admirer of his cricket skills and being a self confessed bat nerd would love to see a newish GM pro players bat. Having recently refurbed a Trescothic GM i was very impressed also it would be nice to put this laminate thing to rest. PS guys any more photos of the GM factory knocking around?
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Trying to this topic back on track guys!!! This comment going out to any GM workers who read this forum maybe Mr Lowry is it of GM any chance we could have a look see at Shane Watsons bat?? I personally am a admirer of his cricket skills and being a self confessed bat nerd would love to see a newish GM pro players bat. Having recently refurbed a Trescothic GM i was very impressed also it would be nice to put this laminate thing to rest. PS guys any more photos of the GM factory knocking around?
me too! that's what we're after, as many details about Watto's bat specs as possible, and differences (if any) between his test match bat and ODI bat, the ODI bat looks bigger/heavier. more than one bat nerd on here :)
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Aren't we all bat nerds be interesting to hear the differences & why