Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Your Kit => Topic started by: tim2000s on January 26, 2011, 08:45:57 AM
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Following last week's net with the Mongoose, I took the Joker along to last night's session. With the slightly narrower but longer blade versus the mongoose I thought it would be an interesting comparison.
The first guy to bat asked if he could borrow it, and it became immediately obvious that he was forgetting how to bat and having a slog, so we told him to calm down and play some cricket shots. This improved his performance no end, and it looked like he was enjoying himself with it. I was up next and as he walked out, his comment was "It's still tricky to play shorter stuff with it!". Unfortunately this was overheard by a couple of people, who, although not especially quick, can bowl a nasty bouncer.
Cue the barrage of short stuff. Well, not quite. I received a fair amount of decently pitched balls, and the spinner took a hammering after I started watching his hand, pinging one straioght back down the pitch and narrowly missing someone's head. As with the Mongoose, in this fashion, it worked very well, and I'd have no worries about using it on most of the pitches we play on.
What about the short stuff? Well I received bouncers, leg side long hops and an interesting left arm bouncer that went past me outside off. In most cases, hooking, pulling and upper cutting worked a treat and I was more worried that anything hitting my helmet would give me the protection that an Ayrtek would. I felt reasonably comfortable with the way that I was hitting them (although to be fair, I'm never that comfortable against short stuff), and got a couple of humungus hooks in that flew off the middle. In that respect, for such a large bat I was able to wristily flick in a way that I was quite surprised at. It felt a reasonably nimble bat to use and seemed to enjoy this kind of approach. I guess that due to the "Harrow-sized" blade, it doesn't have quite as much inertia as you are expecting.
Other batsmen also wanted a go, and seemed to enjoy themselves quite a bit, although one of them was timing it so badly last night that he managed to edge the ball using the edge and the back of the bat. Lovely seam shaped dent there now!
So what's my conclusion? Well, I was very impressed. It does have an enormous middle and I haven't hit a straight lofted drive quite as hard as that one last night. There's a real "crack" noise in the air when you batter one, and once again, it's very fulfilling to be able to hit the ball so hard! A good confidence booster by any estimation. I also learned that against the short ball, it performed admirably, and I was battering a lot of the stuff I was receiving! It also doesn't attract the cries of derision that an MMi3 seems to get, so people just look at it and go "Wow that's a big bat".
I guess I should answer the question I posed in the subject, and I'd say that yes it does. People think you are having a laugh with a smaller bat, but the joke is on them!
I'm not going to draw conclusions yet between the MMi3 and the Joker, as I also have a Bulldog SpiriT20 to have a go with, and with the knocking in taking place on Sunday evening for that, I'll post a review and then a comparison of all three bats next week.
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Nice view again Tim, must be lovely to be able to afford 3 decently priced bats like that, as well as a decent range of others! Good to hear the positivity coming from the Joker owners!
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i absolutely love my joker, only used it against the bowling machine.... but it does seem a very powerful bat and it picks up beautifully for such a masive bat...
if i nick one behind i do think i may have got away with that with my other bat although when i hit one out of the screws i think its worth the gamble, and the ones i narrowly miss i think i may have edged that with a different bat so its swings and round abouts i guess....
all in all what a bat :)
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Nice view again Tim, must be lovely to be able to afford 3 decently priced bats like that, as well as a decent range of others! Good to hear the positivity coming from the Joker owners!
Don't think I've paid RRP (or to be fair, full whack) for most of them. Managed to find a couple of bargains with the MMi and the Joker.
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So the Joker is just a shorter blade than a regular bat but not as short as an MMi3 (almost like a COR3)
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There is a flip side to the outside edge view. If you play and miss with the Joker, you may have edged it behind with a normal sized bat.
It's a trade off. If you back yourself to not edge behind you should get more value for your shots.
They do have excellent pick up though
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it is indeed a shorter blade with a longer handle and is also slightly narrower
do we know of any pro's that use a joker in one day or T20 cricket ??
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Is there any reason you've bought an MMi3, a joker and the Bulldog t20 bat? Id the idea to see which one you prefer and then sell the others?
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Is there any reason you've bought an MMi3, a joker and the Bulldog t20 bat? Id the idea to see which one you prefer and then sell the others?
I play a fair amount of T20 over the summer, and the pitches are mostly low bounce, so I thought it would be interesting to see which was the most effective. Equally, they are a bit of "New shiny bat idea" and I had some cash I could use, and try them for the experience.
The likelihood is that I'll try them all in the nets, and then sell on the one I like least or I think I'll use the least.
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Ah ok, always nice to have a problem like this one :)
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Ah ok, always nice to have a problem like this one :)
Very happy to have it :D
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Tim, what are the weights of the three bats?
I have been seriously considering getting a joker, or maybe a bulldog T20. Still not sure about dealing with the short stuff though.
Did you find that you were pulling/hooking the ball more than you would normally? If so, do you think that's because you felt more confident with the Joker, or just that defending the short stuff is tricky with the shorter/narrower blade?
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Tim, what are the weights of the three bats?
I have been seriously considering getting a joker, or maybe a bulldog T20. Still not sure about dealing with the short stuff though.
Did you find that you were pulling/hooking the ball more than you would normally? If so, do you think that's because you felt more confident with the Joker, or just that defending the short stuff is tricky with the shorter/narrower blade?
I'd say that having less wood in front of you makes you realise that you have to get some wood on it, and as a result you move your feet around that much more and get something in the way. It didn't help that most of the short stuff was at my body/head at a height where defending would have been difficult anyway.
MMi is 2.11, Joker is 2.12.
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I really want one of either of these but the more I think about it, as a fairly defensively minded bat it is pretty pointless.
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Remember the Bulldog SpiriT20 is has only an inch shorter blade and is a normal standard bat width, so best of both in my opinion.
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Which is why I look forward to trying it out!
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Yea let me know how you get on Tim. I have been using one in the nets and have been so impressed I will now use it in all forms of cricket this season.
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I would consider the joker in that context, but not the mmi!
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I think a couple of players are going to be using the MMi in all formats this season, at least in the professional game. On the other side of the coin, a couple of our other players won't use it at all and they'll stick to the CoR.
As ever its about finding a bat that suits, whether its an MMi, Joker or a regular bat. The various options out there is good for the consumer.
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Once I've used all three I'll be able to give a better opinion! To be honest I think the worry about 5he mmi is more driven by the head than experience. I reckon most people can work with the weapon they choose to use. As long as you keep your head with 5he mmi, you should be fine.
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Is the joker the same width as a Harrow ?
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Is the joker the same width as a Harrow ?
Apparently!
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I really want one of either of these but the more I think about it, as a fairly defensively minded bat it is pretty pointless.
Could be very useful if you don't always bat up the order though mate...say on a Sunday coming in for a last 8 or so overs bash?? Though It's great that you are trying all these bats out for us Tim :)
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Apparently!
For that reason alone I wouldn't consider it. I have enough problems hitting the ball without reducing the edges. Length is less of a problem as I'm short anyway. Other issue is your paying a hell of a lot of money for effectively an oversized junior bat.
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For that reason alone I wouldn't consider it. I have enough problems hitting the ball without reducing the edges. Length is less of a problem as I'm short anyway. Other issue is your paying a hell of a lot of money for effectively an oversized junior bat.
Interesting point of view. If you have problems hitting the ball, then having less face means you are less likely to edge it and therefore less likely to get out....
I liken the MMi3 and the Joker (although less so) to Baseball bats in that they have a more concentrated power zone, which means you have to take more care in your hit.
I'd argue that they aren't oversized Junior bats because they have decent sized handles and a decent weight on them. Good on the batmakers for trying something new, given the issues they face from MCC with trying to introduce new technology!
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Less face means you're more likely to miss it and therefore more likely to get out. Otherwise we'd all be using middling bats.
That said a 6mm diff or whatever it is isn't huge.
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be interesting how a corr3 and bulldog compare, their adult bats.
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Less face means you're more likely to miss it and therefore more likely to get out. Otherwise we'd all be using middling bats.
That said a 6mm diff or whatever it is isn't huge.
It's an interesting question...
If generally someone gets bowled then they are more likely to get out, if LBW, then probably makes no difference. If they edge, then if there's no edge there less likely, however if generally thick edges, probably just as likely.
I'm not sure the argument about bat width stands up. Bat length certainly does though. Get the bounce right and with a Mongoose you are in all sorts of trouble. As I said in both reviews, makes you move your feet ;)
be interesting how a corr3 and bulldog compare, their adult bats.
I suspect there would be very little difference.
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It's an interesting question...
If generally someone gets bowled then they are more likely to get out, if LBW, then probably makes no difference. If they edge, then if there's no edge there less likely, however if generally thick edges, probably just as likely.
I'm not sure the argument about bat width stands up. Bat length certainly does though. Get the bounce right and with a Mongoose you are in all sorts of trouble. As I said in both reviews, makes you move your feet ;)
I suspect there would be very little difference.
There is pretty much the same probability of edging a ball with a Joker or standard bat. Balls which you'd thick edge with a standard bat become thin nicks which fly to the keeper. You are ever so slightly more likely to miss the ball though.
And with a Mongoose if you're playing defensive strokes against chest high bouncers, then it's not the bat to use. But when you're looking to attack, as Gareth Andrew did in the Pro40 against Tremlett and as he did against Finn in their CC Div 2 game (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24793373@N07/4993578440/). Then there are benefits to the shorter blade.
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Less face means you're more likely to miss it and therefore more likely to get out. Otherwise we'd all be using middling bats.
That said a 6mm diff or whatever it is isn't huge.
Good point about middling bats, but if this is a mainstream bat then 6mm does make a difference. My main issue is if it's a harrow width, it should say that on the website and not cover it with marketing speak. Then everyone knows where they stand.
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surprised not to see a corr3 bat with a TT sloped shoulder - even more wood in the middle?
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And with a Mongoose if you're playing defensive strokes against chest high bouncers, then it's not the bat to use. But when you're looking to attack, as Gareth Andrew did in the Pro40 against Tremlett and as he did against Finn in their CC Div 2 game ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/24793373@N07/4993578440/[/url]). Then there are benefits to the shorter blade.
Yup, don't disagree with that. It backs up what I experienced.
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Surely though Tim if there was no disadvantage to using a narrower blade, or to flip it, no advantage to using a wider one, why is there a rule in place which limits the maximum width to 4.25 inches? As to said if a narrower bat was more effective we would all be using junior width bats with extra meat behind them.
A middling bat is undoubtedly harder to use, hence why they are used to practice so when we come to use a full width bat in a match it feels easier to hit the ball.
I doubt in practice 6mm would actually make much difference, but there would be occasions where a thick edge through point turns into a thin edge to slips. Let's not use that though and look at it plainly, the most basic concept of cricket is to stop the ball hitting the stumps with your bat. It can't be denied that it is easier to do this with a wider blade...
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Surely though Tim if there was no disadvantage to using a narrower blade, or to flip it, no advantage to using a wider one, why is there a rule in place which limits the maximum width to 4.25 inches? As to said if a narrower bat was more effective we would all be using junior width bats with extra meat behind them.
A middling bat is undoubtedly harder to use, hence why they are used to practice so when we come to use a full width bat in a match it feels easier to hit the ball.
I doubt in practice 6mm would actually make much difference, but there would be occasions where a thick edge through point turns into a thin edge to slips. Let's not use that though and look at it plainly, the most basic concept of cricket is to stop the ball hitting the stumps with your bat. It can't be denied that it is easier to do this with a wider blade...
Jon, I don't disagree with that statement. I wouldn't argue that there is no advantage to using a wider blade though.
I think the argument is a little more complex regarding a narrower blade.
I'd say that the percentage reduction in blade width to provide more middle that the Joker provides does not create a correspondingly equal increase in liklelihood of getting out.
My use of the Joker with a decrease in width by 5.6% didn't appear to increase my probability of getting out either bowled or edged by an equivalent ratio. On average per net I will edge 1 or 2 balls behind and get bowled once. This ratio was maintained (and actually, when using the Mongoose was bettered, probably because I had to concentrate harder).
Unfortunately, I don't have as effective a mechanism for comparing performance of my shots between bat types. Does the more concentrated willow really improve my runs per scoring shot? I couldn't answer that. It "felt" like I was hitting the ball much more powerfully without using more effort, and the sonics of the situation enouraged me to think so. This led to me feeling more confident in what I was doing. That's a positive I guess as the more confident you are, the more likely you are to get in a good position and hit the ball with the right part of the bat...
Coming back to a point I've made before, I enjoy using bats like these. They leave me with a huge smile on my face. At my level, it's easy enough to get out and I don't think the slight width difference makes enough difference to notice. Other people may have a different opinion, that's my tuppence ha'penny !