Topic: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to? (Read 6044 times)

SAF Bats · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:16:52 PM »

Quote from: Watsontotty on November 26, 2009, 07:58:23 PM

My belief is that bat makers use comments like the lightest clefts etc as a selling point, if you think your going to get the same bat made from the same standard cleft as the likes of international players then you will part with your money and perhaps pay a premium. I have dealt with a number of bat makers over the years and the very best clefts are reserved for the top level players only and only on the odd occasion would you be lucky enough have a bat made from the special clefts.

Some of the smaller pod shavers may very well offer you a bat from the best clefts they have however they don't have the endless list of international players who are purchasing bats from them. Ive had g2/g3 bats which have been better than most top end g1 bats I've ever owned and I've had a few bats over the years. Custom made bats in general are far better than off the shelf bats however you do pay a big premium for this which is not always worth it.

Completely agree and the smaller pod shavers just don't have the lightest clefts available to them either you have to pull in a favour or do a good turn for someone to get them or take your chances by buying a far few clefts yourself to find one [if they haven't already be removed]

Also agree on the the G1 - G2 /G3 thing, this cosmetics grading thing is for shop owners and brainwashing [to a certain extent] of the customer. It is supply and demand, "I've heard that x amount of straight grains is the best" hey presto Grade 1 add a few ��'s

hell4leather cricket · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:41:11 PM »

Pro players have a lot to answer for when you see there bats with massive edges! When you get willow from the merchants, i would say 5-10% will be very light clefts, but this still does'nt mean they will all be clean and have 15 straight even grains, and most of those light clefts will be used for pro bats . Companies the size of gray nicolls ,newbery and kookaburra will have at 10000+ clefts a year to choose from.

SAF Bats · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:44:26 PM »

Also, as you know, they don't all want the lightest clefts just one that feels right for them. They aren't overly worried about the dead weight of the bat either!

Watsontotty · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:46:29 PM »

My comments were not aimed at any of the smaller bat makers and companies, more about the myth that the so called lighter clefts are available to purchase as custom made for the man in the street. It was also aimed at the g1 g2 g3 debate and that 15 clean straight grains in my opinion does not always produce a better bat than that which has 8 grains.

keysersolze · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2009, 07:08:17 AM »

Good debate going on here!! I was talking to a bat maker the other day and he even said to me he has found it pays some times to have a bat with a knot in the face as it can hold the bat together. whether is true or not i dont know. I was also told by him you can pick a piece of willow up and it can have 9 or so perfect straight grains but it just feels bottom heavy and bad and he wont use it wheras he can pick up a piece full of marks and know straight away it gonna make a beaut!! I think what myself and joe public have to do is realise its an art form bat makeing and machines in a factory are not gonna get the best out of any piece of wood be it machined here or in Australia/India pakistan etc but these bats can sometimes offer good value for money.

Sitonit · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:14:40 PM »

I was watching a video segment where Stuart Kranzbuhler was making a bat in the presence of Matty Hayden and Andrew Symonds.
He looked at the pile of G1 clefts in stock (prolly about 700 of them) and said, perhaps only ONE from these clefts will be good enough to qualify to be picked for a custom bat for Mathew Hyden.
I think it clearly tells us that clefts used for pros are usually reserved and not available to public that easily since they are extremely hard to come by.

bat no.7 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2010, 03:04:25 AM »

In view of all the above where does the following (type of) "bat maker" sit in the scheme of things?

http://sscricket.com/custom-made-bat.asp

With things like: what willow they (say they) use?
quality of what they produce?
innovation/differentiation?
actual vs claimed performance?
value for money?
(ongoing) reputation in the marketplace?

hell4leather cricket · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2010, 09:51:42 AM »

Quote from: Sitonit on December 02, 2009, 08:14:40 PM

I was watching a video segment where Stuart Kranzbuhler was making a bat in the presence of Matty Hayden and Andrew Symonds.
He looked at the pile of G1 clefts in stock (prolly about 700 of them) and said, perhaps only ONE from these clefts will be good enough to qualify to be picked for a custom bat for Mathew Hyden.
I think it clearly tells us that clefts used for pros are usually reserved and not available to public that easily since they are extremely hard to come by.

has anyone got a link to this? it was on the cricket show, cant seem to find it anywhere now?

smokingdavo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2010, 10:05:19 AM »

Im pretty sure from my understanding there are very very little clefts of the amazing quality that Matt Hayden uses (Example is through laver and wood which on there most expensive bat have a waiting list). From my understanding state players only use very good quality grade 1 bat (still better than the ones off the shelf, or at least 90% of them). However some of the test match batsman and very good state batsmen get a tad higher quality from there suppliers.

Another example is in the interview the other day in the T20 big bash game, george bailey said about Tim Paine "now that hes made the australian team his bats hes got are unbelievable, so its good hes made some runs with them" . So I think theres a big difference between pros bats and test bats.

Talisman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2010, 08:11:48 PM »

Players do not care about willow grading, state players may, but obviously don't get the best performing willow as it is rarely grade 1 for Pro's.

Clefts are weighed and the lowest weight 1% will be reserved for the Pro's in big companies, 10K bats a year, that's 100 clefts, of them 10+ will crack when pressed as they are so low in density so not many true Pro clefts abound. I've seen a 20+ all sapwood grain bat used by Sachin and it is so rare to find a top Pro with one, the lesser Pro's may have these grains but not with the low density and that is the key, having both is an incredible ask for a willow merchant.

Should this bother you? no, as how many people would want a bat that will start breaking quickly and need constant care in it's short life, and what will the power increase be? 10-15% over a standard bat only, and the price would be well over the �300 if you could buy one. All in all you are best served by getting a well pressed bat as the first tick on your sheet, it will make all the difference.

steelcouch · « **Reply #25 on:** January 03, 2010, 02:49:17 PM »

Talisman.
In your opinion, and i know it is only an opinion, but who out there presses well and what are your main considerations to be taken when presses a cleft

(sorry turned out to be two questions)

AlRidd · « **Reply #26 on:** January 03, 2010, 03:02:46 PM »

I think Talisman has said Newbery press the best in an earlier post.

Talisman · « **Reply #27 on:** January 03, 2010, 03:53:42 PM »

I do believe from much experience that Newbery are the best, others who seem to get a good result from their clefts are Laver & Wood, Screaming Cat and Warsop.

I have seen Gray Nic's press and it was a production line with no alterations made and no one even looked at the clefts as they went through the press, it is sad as they had the best skills in the country and lost them all.

Every Newbery is pressed by hand by Tim and he weighs up every cleft before the initial press and watch's it all the way through and back and again if needed, again with the final press. The term soft pressed is over used as it does not exist, no one presses a cleft lighter as the performance will be lowered, a hard cleft will get a lighter press than a soft cleft, there is an optimum level of performance from each cleft and the goal is to achieve it.

steelcouch · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2010, 08:27:37 PM »

Thanks for the insight.
being presumptive i am guessing that is about having the experience to know the way to get the best out of the cleft.
Are there many or any non english, and Kiwi bats that do a very good job at pressing regularly?

Talisman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 05, 2010, 10:47:42 AM »

It is very hard to gain the knowledge, the only way to do it is to spend years pressing with the methods taught to you by those you know. I have had a good long chat to the MD of a very big Asian firm about the pressing and he admits that they cannot match Newbery after he tapped up all the Newbery's in a shop and found the lowest grade bats to be pressed superbly. He says that they sometimes match the pressing but never on a consistent basis, its all down to luck with them.

Author Topic: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to? (Read 6044 times)

SAF Bats

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

hell4leather cricket

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

SAF Bats

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

Watsontotty

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

keysersolze

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

Sitonit

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

bat no.7

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

hell4leather cricket

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

smokingdavo

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

Talisman

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

steelcouch

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

AlRidd

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

Talisman

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

steelcouch

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?

Talisman

Re: Do we really have access to the lightest, finest clefts or are we being lied to?