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[Str8bat]

Had an interesting chat with a mate about how the willow market works from the supply side. Since neither of us has the insider knowledge I suggested that I would put our questions to the forum.

Is the willow market a scale based business i.e. the largest volume buyers get the best willow at the best prices? Or is it more relationship based?

If its the former, do the Indian and Pakistani companies get the best quality willow as they are controlling the big volume orders? My mate defended this view using basic economics logic and in addition pointed to some empirical data that the cleanest hitters in international cricket like Gayle, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Afridi, Dilshan, Sanga, Pollard, Bravo are using sub-continental branded bats openly (and maybe others with different labels). He contends that these players rely more on willow performance compared to the grafters as they rely on their ability to clear the boundary catchers. There is some merit to this logic although not totally convincing.

On the other hand, it would also make sense for the english companies whether large or small bespoke makers to have close, long standing relationships with willow suppliers like JSW... some sort of a preferred customer status allowing them first access to top quality clefts.

Sorry for this long post but I am really interested in the objective views of the bat makers and the experts like Mike and Tom.
PS: I hope this does not degenerate into a topic about English bats vs asian bats.

[Watsontotty]

Think you will find various topics and posts regarding this already on the forum, unfortunately i think its a bit of all the above ? some smaller makers will have personnel contacts at the suppliers which they have dealt with for 20-30 years and have developed a strong relationship. Some of the large makers will use the amount they buy to negotiate price and a good percentage of the best willow. People saying the best willow ends up in India are wrong.

[Talisman]

As much as I know about the biggest, J S Wrights, is that they claim to offer the same terms to everyone and pretty much do, I base that on the fact that most customers do not have a good word to say about them. The reasons behind this are based on your question, the Asian companies believe that the English companies get a better spread of willow in their orders. I've seen no evidence to this as they buy everything and anything tree wise and so produce a load of poor quality willow. Another side reason for the mass quantities of low willow is the lack of care shown to the growers, better education would produce higher quality tree's and thus clefts.

I happen to know that the English firm I thought would have the best relationship with them don't and although they buy top grades only they have to put up with the same poor service as the others. Gayle has his bats made in UK by the way, and does not need to worry about the willow quality, his bats are weapons.

As for price I've seen the offers made to certain companies to buy low grades at decent discount, 30% off as a standard offer. No need to discount the top grades as they are over subscribed and also Asian firms much prefer to buy grade 3 or hand made mens at half the price for their domestic market which does not have the money we in the UK do. Volume does not seem to play a part in pricing, discount for prompt payment only. Certain tricks cannot be published here but there are not too many.

At the end of the day where else are the buyers going to go? for the moment anyway.....

[cd0070]

blackcat...

who makes gayle's bat if you are permitted to give out that info.. how heavy are his bats?

[Talisman]

BlackCat own their willow, lovely but serious investment needed to copy their lead.

GN produce all their own from their growers.

Greens, Anglian, Surridge (no connection with the equipment firm) and Kippax are all producing a small quantity for their customers.

Newbery, Salix and a few others produce a percentage of their own clefts by buying tree's on the open market.

Gayle uses an inch longer blade at 3lb.

[Str8bat]

Mike - your first reply is really insightful. It is quite surprising that JSW has unhappy customers with no preferential terms on volume or duration. Also shocking that some other(s) are getting low returns because they do not upgrade expertise of their proprietary growers. Belies logic but also probably creates new opportunities for entrepreneurs. But maybe the long payback period on the investments is a deterrent for new entrants and keeps the old system going?

[Talisman]

J S Wrights do not own the tree's, and therein lies the way to get past them, very hard and time consuming to get a grower to change over when they are given all sorts of threats as to being sued for the act but with a lot of effort and travelling you can find people who wish to sell to a new buyer and then all you have to do is learn to be a Willow Baron and your there.....

It's a brave new world.

[Howzat]

they claim to offer the same terms to everyone and pretty much do


As for price I've seen the offers made to certain companies to buy low grades at decent discount, 30% off as a standard offer. No need to discount the top grades as they are over subscribed

I heard they discount a lot off the standard price list, 40% or more for the bigger customers?

[Talisman]

To whom? They discount the lower grades.