Flintoff in the mail
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eaowbear

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2010, 01:54:55 PM »

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Tom

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 12:47:43 PM »

Thought this Cricinfo article was a pretty good summary of his career.
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/477455.html
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Buzz

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2010, 01:07:52 PM »

it is slightly harsh that article - but cuts through a lot of the myth.

I prefer this : http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/422212.html

especially Lord Selvey "My favourite was him catching Steve Harmison's first ball of the 2006-07 Ashes, that infamous wide in Brisbane that went straight to second slip. He caught it so nonchalantly, it was almost as if he knew it was coming. Had he been somebody who watched the edge of the bat and not the ball it might have kneecapped him, or hit him straight in the (No Swearing Please), which would have been even funnier. Instead he just caught it and threw it away, as if it wasn't a big deal really. It was as if they had worked it out beforehand. "
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"Bradman didn't used to have any trigger movements or anything like that. He turned batting into a subconscious act" Tony Shillinglaw.

Talisman

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2010, 01:13:25 PM »

I agree with you Tom, he was fantastic in the 2005 Ashes and sadly nowhere close since, his averages point to being well below the standard for a "Great" and will merely be a good all rounder in my eyes, too many buy into the highlights without taking account of the average performance as well as the poor ones.

The endless advertising promotion of his sponsors wares was annoying and detracted from the products in my eyes, odd then he is pictured in an Adidas t-shirt in the Sun today.....
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Beachcricket

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2010, 01:31:51 PM »

I don't think averages always provide a fair reflection, how many games that player won for their team is a better way of judging someone in my opinion.

Viv Richards said about Botham "I prefer to assess a player on how many matches he has won for his team and what he did for cricket in his country"
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Alvaro

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2010, 01:35:10 PM »

having good PR helps perception of 'what he did for his country' though Edgbaston 2005, batting with one arm and ensuring England had a total to bowl at, is hard to beat for blood and guts.
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will5210

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2010, 01:39:38 PM »

The CricInfo article is a little too heavy in the Flintoff bashing department for my liking, but I agree he was overrated (certainly in his batting IMO, which I though was limited).

He deserves credit for some impressive moments with the ball though, particularly taming Gilchrist in 2005. Gilchrist was never quite the same player after that!

I agree with the self promotion stuff - a bit footballerish IMO.

I think he always gave his best on the field though

Beachcricket

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2010, 01:41:52 PM »

The CricInfo article is a little too heavy in the Flintoff bashing department for my liking, but I agree he was overrated (certainly in his batting IMO, which I though was limited).

Just read it, it is somewhat aggressive and no one can deny he was capable of striking fear into opposition batsmen.
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will5210

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2010, 01:44:47 PM »

I do think he bacame one of the best hostile fast bowlers of the modern day (albeit in an era of not many great fast bowlers)

Buzz

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2010, 01:56:42 PM »

This is what Athers said in today's Times...

Mike Atherton Chief Cricket Correspondent
Last updated September 17 2010 12:01AM
There was a lot going on yesterday, what with the County Championship reaching a dramatic climax, Mervyn Westfield being charged by Essex Police with spot-fixing and the Pope taking time out to bless these atheistic shores. There was still the appetite for Fred, though.

In itself, this is remarkable since Flintoff’s last appearance as a cricketer, rather than as a by-standing celebrity, was just over a year ago at the Brit Oval. Then, in a glorious scene- stealing moment to rival any played by Marlon Brando, he threw down Ricky Ponting’s stumps to help England to regain the Ashes. Given yesterday’s announcement of his retirement from all forms of the game, it was to be his last act. What a way to go.

That is not what Flintoff wanted, of course, hence the “sadness” he referred to in the press release. Flintoff wanted, more than anything else, to continue to hear the crowds chant his name, if not as a Test cricketer any more, than as a travelling twenty20 entertainer.

“Freelance Fred” they called him and he saw himself charting a new course, independent and free from control of cricket’s governing bodies. A contract here, a contract there.

That may yet come to pass for some, but not for Flintoff whose body finally gave up on him before he was ready to give up on the game. For anyone, whether you have played a hundred Tests or one, whether you have played for ten years or for two, that is a hard thing to cope with. Despite all the baubles won and the accolades rightfully due, Flintoff will have been a sad man yesterday. That locker at Old Trafford now belongs to someone else.

But rather more quickly than most, because of the fortunate position he finds himself in — not many can afford to simply take time out as Flintoff said he will do — and because of the enormous fund of goodwill he has built up, that sadness will be replaced by relief. No more injections, no more operations, no more rehab and no more uncertainty. He can get on with the rest of his life now that his period in limbo is over.

It was the English public that Flintoff was quick to thank yesterday, along with his family and his team-mates from Lancashire and England. “I am indebted to the encouragement and support I have always received from England’s magnificent supporters,” he said. And that may well be the link that endures most strongly for him. After all, he has been little more than an intermittent presence for Lancashire throughout his career and England have moved on seamlessly without him.

There has always been a special bond between those supporters and the man they saw as the heart and soul of English cricket throughout the first decade of this century. Partly, this was because they saw in Flintoff something of their best selves: a down-to-earth Northern lad, unchanged by success, popular with all, quick to smile, slow to anger and quick to enjoy the fruits of his labours. No matter there was as much myth there as reality.

What cannot be doubted was that Flintoff, more than anyone, helped English cricket to learn to love itself again after a period in the doldrums. In that brief time, either side of 2005 and especially during the Ashes series of that summer, Flintoff was the best face of English cricket, harrying the Australians to defeat after years of kowtowing and doing so in a manner that forced Ricky Ponting into admitting that, yes, he wouldn’t have minded having Flintoff in his team.

When supporters take a little bit of Flintoff with them, it is that series they will take; the thundering all-round performance at Edgbaston and the way he consoled Brett Lee at the end, in particular. By any standards, they are special memories. That people have a selective memory is one of the most pleasant things I have found out about retirement: so they won’t remember the injuries, the drunken episodes and the whitewash in Australia under his captaincy. They will remember the good bits and that will sustain him.

Yesterday, in a warm tribute, Andrew Strauss, the England captain, hailed Flintoff as “the ultimate impact” cricketer. That is about right. It is hard to argue, over the length of his whole career, that Flintoff belongs to the elite. But there were moments and matches, when he sniffed the air, sensed the mood, dragged his team-mates and the crowd with him, when he could change the course of a game, when he belonged in exalted company. They were brief moments, but undeniable.

In a rather less generous tribute, Graeme Swann indicated that England had moved on and would not be troubled by Flintoff’s absence. “Our team last year was very confident,” he said. “We didn’t need people going round and geeing up little quivering leaves in the corner. If he can’t come back, it’s sad, but so be it. No individual is bigger than the team.”

That, too, is true. But somewhere between the words of Strauss and Swann there is a link and Flintoff was part of that link. England are confident and successful now and they will not miss Flintoff.

But they were not always so bold and brave and Flintoff played his part in that renaissance. For that, and for the memories, he has our gratitude.
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eaowbear

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2010, 02:02:27 PM »

Rather nice to read this by Brett Lee - Freddie 'an absolute beauty'!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12123_6382124,00.html
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will5210

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2010, 02:08:48 PM »

Nice article by Athers

Simmy

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2010, 02:22:21 PM »

after reading most of the 1st article at end of the day.

just proves he is as normal as the rest of us..

players cricket gets hammered has a laugh plays cricket...

nothing wrong with that!

typicall yorkshire boy!!
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Watsontotty

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Re: Flintoff in the mail
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2010, 06:30:18 PM »

Been lucky enough to be in the company of Fred a couple of times over the years one of them was pretty short only around 20 mins or so however the other time was for a few hours and i/we all found him to be a thoroughly nice guy with a massive heart, various comments kicking around on here by people who have never met him or will have enough ability to tie his laces is quite a joke but comment on his attitude and his ability.

Look at the comments from fellow professionals in the game Brett Lee, Ricky Ponting, Raul Dravid, Graeme Smith, and many many many more regard Fred so very very highly and his ability to change a game isn't seen in many cricketer's of this generation or perhaps they no nothing about the game and some on here know more despite never meeting him or being against him not to mention being in the same team as him. Very quick to pull people to bits and knock them down which is pretty sad. I regard Fred very very highly as a cricketer and a man and it will be sad never to see him back on a cricket field for England or Lancashire. 
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