Reserve or Special Reserve?!
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Johng

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #105 on: April 11, 2011, 08:47:54 AM »

John, do you think you may have had unrealistic expectations? Even if you assume a5% reduction in moisture will provide an equivalent size increase, a standard bat would have 35 mm edges and a 5% increase on that will only be less than 37 mm. Equally the increase in volume of wood won't be enormous either.

It seems that we have a tendency to expect magic from the bat makers?
No i don't think so as I have had enough experience buying bats to know when a bat is under spec. As the Amplus, Reserve and a 400 pound Talisman I bought all met my expectations and normally I do not complain. But this is a valid complaint in my opinion.
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peplow

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #106 on: April 11, 2011, 08:49:55 AM »

no fattus i cant help but agree, in all fairness we didnt know it would go wrong, and i've always had a thing for them so thought why not! maybe the uk is the best place to buy from though..
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Johng

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #107 on: April 11, 2011, 09:04:44 AM »

Never had an issue buying bats from the UK, many issues however, buying directly out of India!!!

As Mike supplies all my bats and will continue to do so into the future.
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jonpinson

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #108 on: April 11, 2011, 09:29:00 AM »

Hmmmm, as good as they are purported to be, is it really worth going through all this grief and extra cost to buy a bat from the other side of the world - particularly when it goes wrong?

..and before you all shoot me down, I am a past Laver customer, and the bat was very good - but not so significantly better than most of the Newbery's I have had to warrant the extra cost and heartache.

There's lots of very good blades here in the UK, and many of them are beautifully finished too.

I know I will get shouted down, but that's my twopenn'orth!

Most sensible post in this thread.

People will deny it until they are blue in the face but part of the attraction with this brand is that they are priced higher than most others and therefore they must somehow produce a better final product. If Laver's prices had always been in line with, or perhaps even lower than similar UK based brands I guarantee you they would not have the attraction that they do now.

Our brains work in an odd illogical way when deal with things like this. If someone we trust implicitely offers us a bat for £200 and someone else offers one for £400, the temptation will be to go for the more expensive one even if we know it cannot be any better.

The difficulty Laver faces is that we know you can get a top bat for less than they charge for theirs, so they must find another selling point. On the face of it they seem to have chosen exclusivity and a little bit of mysticism as their USPs.

Knowing that many of the batmakers on this forum offer very good customer service, I'd have expected the 'Laver experience' to be nothing short of flawless. Frankly it seems to have been a bit of a car crash. Going on what has been said here, more customers are unhappy with their bats than are happy, bats have been made to the wrong shapes, weights, sizes. Different wood has been used to that which was agreed upon, orders have taken longer than agreed, the prices paid seem to vary on a day to day basis. Even the most ardent Laver fan must admit it isn't a shining light of the boutique experience.

I am glad to hear that most (if not all) people have now reached a resolution they are happy with. However it is pretty poor that this situation was allowed to develop in the first place. Were it just about any other brand they would have been ripped apart by now on here, banished, shamed. But because it is Laver people seem to be happy to say 'oh well' 'not to worry' and 'we all make mistakes'.

Oh well, I hope it has given a pretty good idea if their options now. Certainly has done for me.
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Johng

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2011, 10:00:34 AM »

Yep buy from the UK always works out well for me.

This is why I am upset regarding the Special Reserve. It is marketed as a ugly reserve with similar size and performance. I then ask for a SR with secondary drying and send my 270 pounds off to Andy and get a photo on a nice angle so the bat looks big as per spec. I receive back a bat with 32mm edges and concaving for my 270 with pretty ordinary willow, if I knew nothing about bats I would of copped it sweet. 270 buys me a sensational bat from Newbery, Talisman, Warsop, SAF and H4L just to name a few.

The last thing a bat maker wants to do is upset one of us on here and treat us like an idiot as it spreads right through the whole forum. I do not buy bats to go through the trouble of sending them back because the supplier has sent out product that does not meet its original description or is vastly under spec.

That is not how this forum works, we buy collectively and expect suppliers to perform to realistic customer expectations. And when suppliers do not perform we should not put up with it.

I feel profit has obscured Laver's judgement and customer satisfaction is secondary.
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Buzz

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2011, 10:15:32 AM »

Yep buy from the UK always works out well for me.

This is why I am upset regarding the Special Reserve. It is marketed as a ugly reserve with similar size and performance. I then ask for a SR with secondary drying and send my 270 pounds off to Andy and get a photo on a nice angle so the bat looks big as per spec. I receive back a bat with 32mm edges and concaving for my 270 with pretty ordinary willow, if I knew nothing about bats I would of copped it sweet. 270 buys me a sensational bat from Newbery, Talisman, Warsop, SAF and H4L just to name a few.

The last thing a bat maker wants to do is upset one of us on here and treat us like an idiot as it spreads right through the whole forum. I do not buy bats to go through the trouble of sending them back because the supplier has sent out product that does not meet its original description or is vastly under spec.

That is not how this forum works, we buy collectively and expect suppliers to perform to realistic customer expectations. And when suppliers do not perform we should not put up with it.

I feel profit has obscured Laver's judgement and customer satisfaction is secondary.

1. you are paying more for the brand
2. have you used the bat in a match yet? until then you can't judge the performance.
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Johng

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2011, 10:17:33 AM »

1. you are paying more for the brand
2. have you used the bat in a match yet? until then you can't judge the performance.
Had a hit with it today and plays no where near the price tag.
Will put it in the cupboard and will put it behind me
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100 not out

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2011, 10:19:27 AM »

I tell u what. . . . I work hard to earn my money and want it well spent. I expect a certain standard, don't care who u are, if it doesn't meet my standards I let them know, no two ways about it. Reputation counts for nothing if u dont deliver. If my replacement does not meet my standards they will all go back. Simple. Sometimes in this world you have to shout to be heard. Had enough of being mr nice. Rant over.
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100 not out

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2011, 10:21:41 AM »

John

I am told that this is the pressing. It will come to life apparently, rather like the ugly duckling that turned into a swan.
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Buzz

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2011, 10:25:03 AM »

Had a hit with it today and plays no where near the price tag.
Will put it in the cupboard and will put it behind me
John

I am told that this is the pressing. It will come to life apparently, rather like the ugly duckling that turned into a swan.

fair enough - but I agree with 100 - use it in the nets - I am sure it will come good - although mentally if you think a bat is pants it is difficult to score big with it - on the other hand it may help you concentrate and really try to middle the ball.

Failling that if it has an big oval handle I'll take it from you for £110 (posted) - at least it will get used then, rather than sitting in your cupboard!!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 10:41:44 AM by Buzz »
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Canners

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2011, 10:26:46 AM »

I'l have it for £110.50 posted
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Buzz

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2011, 10:28:43 AM »

I'l have it for £110.50 posted
I'll up my offer to £110.58 then, pah to you Canners.
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100 not out

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2011, 10:38:41 AM »

Mikey you sneaky get.
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roco

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2011, 11:59:35 AM »

You go for it buzz

My bats will be shipped on Wednesday or Thursday hopefully so will see when they get here as after my chat to andy I am looking forward to seeing how they perform next to my other top bats
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jonpinson

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Re: Reserve or Special Reserve?!
« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2011, 02:17:49 PM »

I think what we need to do, collectively, is come around to realising that smaller newer batmaking bands are somehow guaranteed to be not-quite-as-good as the well thought of premium brands that are well established. In simple terms, we equate the size of the price tag with the size of the performance.

Why, for instance will we pay £300+ for a Laver, or SCAT when really we know that a Talisman, H4L etc etc will be as good for quite a bit less? We all do it to an extent, a straw poll a few months ago found Laver and SCAT to be the two most desired brands among members on this forum who had no experience of those brands. Why? £££ Thats why. I am of the opinion now (and increasingly so) that there is no magic involved, no unspeakable technique in manufacture which somehow seperates and lifts these coincidentally more expensive brands to make better bats. You can argue the lineage of the training that those batmakers in question have received, yes it is romantic to trace John Newbery's knowledge being handed down and it is an attractive thought. However interpret it in another light and you can argue that Dan, the new batmaker at Salix will, once training is complete, have the same knowledge as Newbery, Keeley, Millichamp, Kember and Laver. It gives a different slant to it, no doubt. What though is there to say that a maker who is self taught cannot produce bats of equal performance?

If you are loyal to a brand it should be because you have had good results from them. Product and service. Simple. Nothing more. It is frankly embarrassing to see paying customers excusing these recent problems under the banner of 'Everyone makes mistakes'. Well, yes they do but in business if they continue to make repeated mistakes they don't stay around for long.

In my terms a premium brand is one that is extraordinary in both product and service and therefore charges accordingly. By those terms we are not looking at a premium brand. It is a brand that charges for a premium service but sadly falls far short of providing it.

I do hope a happy solution is found, some seem to have been satisfied already but others do not. People should not stop stamping their fists until they are satisfied because this situation should not have been allowed to degrade this far.

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