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[dan_nichols]

I have made bats from handled/pressed clefts and because they are pre pressed the middle will generally be in a pre-determined position of mid-low. This will have an effect on the best place for the middle.

If you say 'ok, im after a part-made for a bat such as a GM Flare' then the bat is pressed with a slightly gentler bow higher up, having it pressed with the bow low down, like many sub-continent style bats would be pointless as the most responsive part of the bat would be lower than the majority of the willow in cleft. It would still play well enough but you wouldnt have the optimum performance of meat in the bat and the best pressed area of the cleft...

Does that make any sense?

[Buzz]

thanks, you have answered both parts to the question! I think... what you are saying, if I have read this right, is that in a part made cleft the middle is already determined, so it is up to the shaver to make the best use he can of that.
nice. another of my quandaries solved... thanks Dan!

the second part of your answer goes some way to explaining the indifferent performance of a previous bat of mine, despite it having lovely grains and a nice pick up...

[Johnny]

tongue question?

[Bez013]

I'm not sure my 2 part mades count as enough experience, and my method for finding the best part of the blade isn't the most scientific!!

Before I started the 2nd I tapped it up with a mallet and based on feel and noise thought it was good lower down so I left the bulk of the wood fairly low down which is what I wanted to do, there isn't much to write home about from about half way up the blade but the bottom half has felt very nice both times I have used it in matches.

I have a grade 1 part made to have a go at next and that feel and sounds better off more of the blade so I'll probably leave the majority of the wood in a mid to high position with that one.

[Buzz]

sounds good, you have more experience than me! it is all useful information.

[norbs]

I would say a very high % of pressing is standard for all bats, any part made, to full branded manufacturered bats

So, basically there is no distinction made between one bat model or another! Final pressing stuff is for something else not performance 99% of the time, it is basically something you've read and thought he knows what he is talking about so it must be right

The shift is to do with something else....

[Buzz]

marvellous, welcome back norbs!
something else? must be the genius of the pod man...!

[norbs]

Dan is right in a round about sort of way and I see Tim talks about MMI and CoR.  This relates to and includes a whole raft of stuff. Like I've said before CoR is simple to see but complex with regards to the aspects that contribute to it.

The shift is more then likely due to the centre of mass shift via a bow [as per Dan] adding a grip, bat profile etc.  This shift effects the centre of percussion and therefore the rebound qualities of the bat itself. If you can shift this, half knowingly ;-), based on pickup, mass and shape on an organic piece of willow then you are looking at each piece on a individual basis which is some peoples niche. If you are making 10's of thousands you go for an average and some will be better then others in that respect [but we know that already jjb bat for example]

Hope that helps

[tim2000s]

Dan is right in a round about sort of way and I see Tim talks about MMI and CoR.  This relates to and includes a whole raft of stuff. Like I've said before CoR is simple to see but complex with regards to the aspects that contribute to it.

The shift is more then likely due to the centre of mass shift via a bow [as per Dan] adding a grip, bat profile etc.  This shift effects the centre of percussion and therefore the rebound qualities of the bat itself. If you can shift this, half knowingly ;-), based on pickup, mass and shape on an organic piece of willow then you are looking at each piece on a individual basis which is some peoples niche. If you are making 10's of thousands you go for an average and some will be better then others in that respect [but we know that already jjb bat for example]

Hope that helps

Doesn't where a person holds the bat also affect the centre of percussion though, as it moves correspondingly with the pivot point? And I'm sure that I've seen something on the web somewhere (I'll have to try and find it) that goes into the impact of vibrational bending, which I'm not sure how cane handles and rubber springs affect versus solid wood?

Sorry if I'm getting all nerdy on you Buzz, I'm just an Engineer at heart, and I find it intriguing.

[norbs]

Doesn't where a person holds the bat also affect the centre of percussion though, as it moves correspondingly with the pivot point? And I'm sure that I've seen something on the web somewhere (I'll have to try and find it) that goes into the impact of vibrational bending, which I'm not sure how cane handles and rubber springs affect versus solid wood?

Sorry if I'm getting all nerdy on you Buzz, I'm just an Engineer at heart, and I find it intriguing.

Yes Tim to a certain extent the hand position is a pivot point and will effect the centre of mass as does the swing speed and that is why pickup is related to this and therefore to use an example why changing the number of grips or handle weight can effect the centre of precussion.

Impact of vibration bending/handle composition is more related to the aCoR of the bats then anything else so in this context, the shifting of the middle, it isnt really part of the answer.

[Red Ink Cricket]

so as a basic most clefts have the best responsive area in the same/similar place and the 'middle' is determined by the high point of the spine which is moved to improve pickup/ balance? so they dont have to be in the same place but the most responsive area will respond greater if it is?

[norbs]

so as a basic most clefts have the best responsive area in the same/similar place and the 'middle' is determined by the high point of the spine which is moved to improve pickup/ balance? so they dont have to be in the same place but the most responsive area will respond greater if it is?

johners77 I'm slightly confused by all that above but will answer what I think you are asking.... [In the big boy world] Most clefts run through a press will all be pressed the same [pressure] for the production run unless you start getting a few poppers. Adjusting the press when you are doing loads of clefts a day isnt really feasible.  That means you will get variations from piece to piece, as willow is an organic material. There will be an average though so it won't be shocking.  In that sense the middle is in the same place until you start shaping and balancing a bat. So you need to understand your shape and limits for pickup/balance. You shouldn't really be moving this willy-nilly solely for balance purposes as it effects the bat performance via the centre of mass when the bat is swung, it is all interlinked in that sense

To say the middle is at the high point of the spine is incorrect, it is generally above or below this point and that is based on the shape and a few of the things I explained in a previous post.  I'm sure you all would have noticed that the middle of your bat isnt actually at the spine high point when you hit it out of the screws and feel nothing in you hands when you've hit it. That said volume in the hitting area also adds to the power of the bat so it cant be just discarded. 

[As you've made a few, I think some advice if I can?] Basically a bit of thought in the bat profile and understanding what shapes can do what helps immensely also what you doing when it is pressed or how it has been pressed.  At the end of the day this can all be as complex or as simple as you want it to be but I think something that is all important for both aspects [simple or complex] is understanding the shape what, where, why and how it performs that gives you a great baseline on weights, middle positions, bow or not etc etc

[tim2000s]

All this Norbs tech talk makes the anticipation of receiving a new SAF all the greater!

[Red Ink Cricket]

johners77 I'm slightly confused by all that above but will answer what I think you are asking.... [In the big boy world] Most clefts run through a press will all be pressed the same [pressure] for the production run unless you start getting a few poppers. Adjusting the press when you are doing loads of clefts a day isnt really feasible.  That means you will get variations from piece to piece, as willow is an organic material. There will be an average though so it won't be shocking.  In that sense the middle is in the same place until you start shaping and balancing a bat. So you need to understand your shape and limits for pickup/balance. You shouldn't really be moving this willy-nilly solely for balance purposes as it effects the bat performance via the centre of mass when the bat is swung, it is all interlinked in that sense

To say the middle is at the high point of the spine is incorrect, it is generally above or below this point and that is based on the shape and a few of the things I explained in a previous post.  I'm sure you all would have noticed that the middle of your bat isnt actually at the spine high point when you hit it out of the screws and feel nothing in you hands when you've hit it. That said volume in the hitting area also adds to the power of the bat so it cant be just discarded. 

[As you've made a few, I think some advice if I can?] Basically a bit of thought in the bat profile and understanding what shapes can do what helps immensely also what you doing when it is pressed or how it has been pressed.  At the end of the day this can all be as complex or as simple as you want it to be but I think something that is all important for both aspects [simple or complex] is understanding the shape what, where, why and how it performs that gives you a great baseline on weights, middle positions, bow or not etc etc

thanks  for the advice norbs