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Author Topic: Kevin Pietersen... again...  (Read 13667 times)

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joeljonno

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2014, 06:00:12 AM »


Hue head coach changes.. The suits behind them don't.. There in lays the drama

Head coach changed

Chief Exec changed

Coaching staff changed

Selectors changed

Players changed

So it is the admin's fault that England did poorly in Aus over the winter?

And therefore it was the admin's fault that England were so good prior to that, winning on India, getting to number 1 in the world, etc.
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MD2812

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2014, 09:25:39 AM »

Sponsors changed.

Give Waitrose a chance! :P

Buzz

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2014, 11:58:46 AM »

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jun/10/the-spin-english-cricket-reluctant-embrace-unorthodox-talents

THE OLD ORTHODOXIES

“A coach,” the batsman said, “must be careful not to cramp a lad’s style, not to repress his individuality.” His voice was soft, and he spoke English with an inflection that betrayed the fact he had been born and raised abroad. “One boy may show signs of steadiness, another of hard-hitting, another may have a tendency towards fast-scoring methods. A good coach will develop each player along natural lines.” The audience listened in appreciative silence, appropriate for a man of his skills and standing.


There had been controversy when he was first selected for England, but he had quietened it when, in his first series, he scored that brilliant 150 in the fourth innings against Australia. Now, most accepted that he was the best batsman in the country. Or at least the most brilliant, capable of incredible shots of his own design, the likes of which other, more orthodox, more English, batsmen, scarcely imagined, much less attempted. He continued. “If a young player showed a particular knack for a dangerous stroke, then he shouldn’t be discouraged from playing it, far less forced to abandon it. But he should be shown how to make it safer.” He spoke in particular of the pull, and the hook, which he had used so wonderfully well against the Australian quicks.


There were mutters of disagreement at that. And if the murmurers were too polite to raise their voices, they were gratified to read a rebuttal of his words in The Times the next day. “His play, as everyone who has seen him knows, is not English play,” the paper said. The pull and the hook, the paper advised, “are dangerous eccentricities which should not be recommended to the young.” Furthermore, “a lad may excuse himself for ending a pentameter verse with an adjective by the plea that Ovid sometimes does the same, and the master’s well-known answer is ‘when you have written as many and as good verses as Ovid, you may imitate him in breaking the rules.’ A cricket coach should in our opinion say much the same to a boy who tried to pull an off-ball or hook a straight one.”


Which is the giveaway, if you hadn’t yet twigged, that this conversation took place a long time ago; 117 years back, to be exact, when Ranjitsinhji published his Jubilee Book of Cricket. But it echoed again this week. Among the many little insights included in Kevin Pietersen’s debut column in the Daily Telegraph were a couple of snippets about the academy he is planning to open in Dubai. These were, presumably, included at his behest, part of the voracious PR campaign being waged by his management team, but they still contained a few pithy observations about English cricket.


“My guiding principles are that I want to coach kids the way they play and not from a textbook. You want kids to grow up believing in their own natural talent and strengths,” Pietersen explained. “I have seen how coaching is now, especially for kids. Ball on a cone, high elbow and hit through the ball. In my opinion that is not the only way to coach and it’s holding back some natural talent. The game has changed and coaching has to change too.”


The comparison he made was with Lasith Malinga. “How the hell does he get wickets bowling like that? But his technique works for him. If he was a young England player he would probably have drifted out of the game.” Which is not such a piece of what-iffery as it first appears. Perhaps the last really unorthodox English bowler to appear on the county circuit, the off-spinner Maurice Holmes, is now playing for Cannock in Division Three of the Birmingham Premier League, far away from the county scene.


“There will always be the English view, that something different is not necessarily something good,” Holmes told me in 2012. “There are people who tend to take the traditional view that things can and should only be done in one way.” He too has his forebears. Bernard Bosanquet, who perfected the googly, said that his delivery had been “subject to ridicule, abuse, contempt, and incredulity” in its early years. When he bowled the great Arthur Shrewsbury with one, the batsman told him the delivery was “unfair”. “Not unfair, Arthur,” Bosanquet said with a grin, “only immoral.”


Curiously, Kumar Sangakkara has also compared Pietersen to Malinga, telling Wisden Extra: “For us, it’s been like that with Lasith Malinga. He is very different in the way he looks, and as a person. Not everyone gets on well with each other in a team. There are certain people you might not have dinner with, but that doesn’t take away from the fact they will be valuable players in a national cause, going out trying to win matches.” Sri Lanka, of course, have done a far better job of nurturing, and integrating, players with unorthodox techniques, from Malinga to Murali to Ajantha Mendis, even Sanath Jayasuriya.


Too many people in English cricket tend to criticise unorthodox players for what they don’t do, rather than celebrate them for what they can do. Hence the recent fuss about Saeed Ajmal’s action, though the rest of the world has long since accepted him. Some seem to think that anyone who bowls with a bent elbow is a villain, regardless of whether or not they straighten it, and even though we now know that all bowlers flex their arms, which is why we have the 15 degree rule. But then, on these shores even traditional leg-spin still seems to be an unfathomable and alien skill.


The question of English approach towards unorthodox talent is growing more pressing. The current generation is the first to have grown up playing, and watching, T20, a format that encourages an irregular, even radical, approach. And yet we seem reluctant to embrace our most luminous talents. Alex Hales is, incredibly, unable to get into the ODI side. We dither about whether Jos Buttler’s wicket-keeping is up to snuff, worry whether Eoin Morgan has issues with his defence outside off-stump. Moeen Ali is yet to even use the doosra, which he says he has learned, in a match.


Not all young players have the bullet-proof self-belief that enabled Pietersen to overcome the doubts, the disapproval, and forge his own way ahead. They need to be fostered, supported, by those around them. But Buttler, for instance, even seems to have swallowed the idea that he’s not yet good enough to play Test cricket. As Pietersen says, “the game has changed”, but have our attitudes?
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skip1973

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2014, 12:09:33 PM »

The difference with the Sri Lankans mentioned is they are playing for their country. I know it's an old argument but deep down I don't know how players that just walk away from their country can have the same support amongst team mates, not talking about children moving with families but adults making a choice. It has to be an issue.
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Manormanic

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2014, 12:36:48 PM »

The difference with the Sri Lankans mentioned is they are playing for their country. I know it's an old argument but deep down I don't know how players that just walk away from their country can have the same support amongst team mates, not talking about children moving with families but adults making a choice. It has to be an issue.

In hte modern world, I suspect that that point is rather more debateable than it might at first appear!
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richthekeeper

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2014, 03:01:18 PM »

typical Pietersen - a self serving bullsh*t article with the occasional valid point.

Buttler is an exciting talent but Prior has been consistently one of the best keeper-batsmen in world cricket for 5 years. if he's fit he's the man in possession of the gloves.

Giles didn't get the job because he fluffed his lines in the audition, i refuse to believe there's a hidden agenda.

And as for KP himself - his departure from every setup he's ever been involved in has been celebrated. Controversy follows him wherever he goes and he clearly rubs people up the wrong way. Those of you saying England should learn to manage him; they have clearly tried over the years and got to the point where it's just not worthwhile anymore. He's over the hill and living on former glories, so it's a bold move for the selectors to cut him loose and focus on developing the team of the future.

In my humble opinion.
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jamielsn15

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2014, 05:05:36 PM »

First and foremost - KP should be still be playing for England.  However...

IN professional sport, its not as simple as 'turn up, get on with it and play.'  Cricket is unique in its length of tours and its team and individual aspects.  Its no good comparing cricketers to other team sports pros in terms of their ability to get on with other players.  Cole and Sheringham, for example, only had to put up with each other for a couple of nights, at most, on Euro duty.  Cricketers are in each others pockets for months.  You have to take into account group cohesion and team dynamics.  The very reason Nasri hasn't been selected for France's World Cup team is that they can't take a disruptive character away for a month-6 weeks.  This isn't Championship Manager - you can't simply select the best players and stick them out there.  Confidence, performance in social groups, etc all play a big part.

My question is; rather than jumping on a press and media bandwagon - explain how do you manage a player like KP?  Or someone like him in your workplace? Imagine someone criticising the boss, who's been successful and given you a career - how do you react?  he's the best worker in your office, but he's criticising the new guy, or the office junior - do you laugh along with him, follow his example?  Does it affect the way you work?  Does it create an atmosphere?  Is he affecting the behaviour of the younger, impressionable lads?  Is it affecting other workers performance?

What do you think when he's the only one not wearing a shirt or tie?  The one who takes a different lunch to everyone else?  What about when you hear that he did the same things in his previous jobs?

The point is, it starts to affect you.  And you get to go home at 5pm every night.  I know how I'd feel if I was Alastair Cook; you've backed the guy and stood up for him and he lets you down a year on when you really need him.

I think as an individual, out in the middle, him against 11 players, he's indispensible.  Unfortunately, that only takes up a small part of the England cricketer.  Its the tam stuff he doesn't do. And when one player becomes bigger than the team, he has to go.  It happens across sports all the time, you've got to maintain the bigger picture and the foundations for successful team sport.  Losing one, however talented, to preserve the many and the team culture is everything.
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Kieron_BT

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2014, 11:04:50 AM »

Why's he not playing for Surrey in the CC this week?
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Buzz

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2014, 11:28:56 AM »

He is too busy taking the piss out of the Sun Cricket correspondence...

And am not sure that Jason Roy (who would have had to make way) would have been too happy about that.

regardless is scored a 55 ball hundred which KP hasn't done in a County Championship game...
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calvin1mac

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2014, 12:53:12 PM »

jamielsn15, I thought that was a great comment.

I personally am a massive Pietersen fan. But at the end of the day if he is no longer a part of group and having a negative effect then in my opinion its better to cut your losses and move on.
Obviously he is a fantastic player and the decision to move on without him will not have been made lightly, but like you said there are so many other factors to consider other than just ability.

I play cricket with a guy who has more talent than I personally could ever wish to possess. He's the kind of bloke who is just good at stuff without having to try.
The problem is his attitude stinks and he is so arrogant that he won't listen to anyone else.
One of the big problems we have is the younger players coming through have started to think that the way he behaves is the norm and acceptable.
My personal belief is that as a senior player comes the responsibility to set a good example. In previous years there were a number of senior players who encouraged and maintained a good team atmosphere. This, to some extent allowed the team to carry some of his negative influence, but over time as these players retired and moved on that stability has diminished.
He himself is now become a senior player and even tried his hand at captaincy, which I might add was a disaster and even caused a number of people to leave the club.
Is any of this sounding familiar!

In the end we have had to move on without him and while initially this effected results, you can already see the positive effect it is having in the dressing room.
People are enjoying playing again and its about the collective team rather than anyone individual. I know to be successful in any sport there is a certain amount of single mindedness required, but cricket is still a team sport which requires 11 players working together.

In summary what I am saying is that, No single player is bigger than the club or an organisation and when that happens something need to be change. To me that is what has happened with Pietersen.

I have loved watching Pietersen play for England and it saddens me to know it wont happen again. For me he was one of the reasons I got back into cricket around the time of the 2005 ashes.
He's the kind of player who inspires people, but again thats only the side we see on the pitch and maybe thats for the best. As some of you will no doubt know from personal experience some elite sportsmen/women aren't all that nice people. For us as spectators who have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, its easy to say that the ECB made the wrong decision. I personally think we'll never get to the full truth behind the real reason for his axing but perhaps we should except that he's had a great run and finished up as one of the best and most successful players to pull on the England shirt.



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AverageCricketer

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2014, 01:08:07 PM »

I think most teams have a player that is arrogant and has a bad attitude. Some are more arrogant than others. Some people deal with them better than others but it could be their personality is their main weakness and it affects the team as well. It is just the way people are and if people can't tolerate that, the problem will be attempted to be solved, and if not, the person will part with the team.

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Dhiraj

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2014, 01:36:45 PM »

Pietersen is enormous talent with a very big ego. England milked that till his knees gave up. Inability to handle him is the weakness from Coach/Captain point of view. Just too sad as a cricket fan to not see him anymore playing at the top level. Recently concluded Eng-Srilanka series was one of the most lackluster series till ofcourse Mathews decided to spice it up a bit. What's Cricket without characters and a bit of fire.
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Buzz

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2014, 03:56:06 PM »

Typically when you have someone with an ego - you need to bring them into the decision making process make them feel important and loved.

It isn't that hard.
People like KP get grumpy when they see issues that are easily rectified but are being ignored by the management, or if they don't see improvement or change to help improvement.

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tim2000s

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2014, 04:01:36 PM »

WHat for me is far more interesting is that Vaughan had very few issues with managing KP. Strauss, even after the SA textgate affair, appeared to be able to manage KP. Cook has never been able to do this. I think it suggests that while Cook is a good batsman, he's maybe not the man-manager that other captains have been.
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Cumbrian Pete

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Re: Kevin Pietersen... again...
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2014, 04:04:54 PM »

I agree that players with big egos need to be made to feel involved.  KP cut a forlorn figure in Australia as he wasn't involved in the decision making process out on the pitch.  I would have made him vice-captain.  Cook may have benefit from his ideas and sometimes a quiet one / loud one combination can work well with captaincy and vice captaincy.

Looking at the England top 6 for the Sri Lanka game...KP would definitely be worth a place, I still think he had plenty to offer at the top level.
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