Butterfly
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skip1973

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #510 on: December 10, 2014, 10:48:12 AM »

Yeah I understand what your saying but I think you're missing my point, 2lb 5oz for a 10-12yo is quite heavy in Australia, obviously I am generalising a little because there will always be exceptions depending on the child. That's pretty much all I was saying, certainly not suggesting you were doing anything incorrectly. Not sure what brands you consider floorboards? Junior bats have improved out of sight in the last few years, GN and GM particularly have been very good.
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Andythomo21

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #511 on: December 10, 2014, 11:01:28 AM »

All manufacturers produce good quality junior bats if your willing to pay for them.  I guess the floor board comment refers to the numerous junior bats found in large discount sports shops (one chain of shop in particular springs to mind), made from Kashmir willow with the willow covered in a coating/face so you can't see the horrors that lay beneath!
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #512 on: December 10, 2014, 11:12:50 AM »

All manufacturers produce good quality junior bats if your willing to pay for them.  I guess the floor board comment refers to the numerous junior bats found in large discount sports shops (one chain of shop in particular springs to mind), made from Kashmir willow with the willow covered in a coating/face so you can't see the horrors that lay beneath!

 Bang on there are more absolute garbage ones out there than good ones. There are loads in the uk. Price wise, I reckon we are on the mark for a top quality bat for top young players. We don't really advertise for junior bats because we will never compete with the big companies as most youngsters want the brand that their mates or hero is using regardless but we literally make them bespoke to each customer just as we do with our adult bats.
 I can't even get hold of junior size clefts from the supplier at the moment as the Asian market has taken them all. I was told a month ago that an order of 10,000 junior clefts had just gone over to the Asian market.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #513 on: December 10, 2014, 11:14:52 AM »

Bang on there are more absolute garbage ones out there than good ones. There are loads in the uk. Price wise, I reckon we are on the mark for a top quality bat for top young players. We don't really advertise for junior bats because we will never compete with the big companies as most youngsters want the brand that their mates or hero is using regardless but we literally make them bespoke to each customer just as we do with our adult bats.
 I can't even get hold of junior size clefts from the supplier at the moment as the Asian market has taken them all. I was told a month ago that an order of 10,000 junior clefts had just gone over to the Asian market.

Whats the difference between the jnr cleft and snr one? purely size or are they lighter etc
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #514 on: December 10, 2014, 11:34:05 AM »

Size. There are a whole range of different clefts. This is a letter that we as suppliers got regarding 2015 orders. I have enclosed this so you may get some understanding to what we as makers have to deal with. Junior clefts will be made from willow that has to have faults cut out and so won't make an adult size cleft or have bits missing out of them.

Dear Customer,
Firstly I apologise again for the lack of supplies in top and some middle grades this year but there is very little I can do about tree quality plus the fact we have had major floods and a lot of storm damage where we have lost many of our good trees for the next few years. I can assure you it is affecting us as regards turnover, profits and customer satisfaction just as much as yourselves, you can be sure you are all getting treated fairly.
It is that time of year again when we release the prices for 2015 so you can sort out the pricing and details you need for you brochures and customers in 2015.
We have had increased different grades by different rates to reflect the demand, supply and availability so there is not a general % rise over every grade.  I appreciate some of you would rather have that but with us producing so many Vellum Mens these days and demand for these not being that good we wanted to put these up far less than other grades, which we have done, we have put the Grade 1 and 1B up by the highest percentage for the opposite reason.  We are still getting far too many lower grades although from September 2014 deliveries onwards you will see more upper grades as the timber quality has improved the last two months, I hope it continues but I have my doubts.
Costs continue to escalate in the UK and we are having to start a pension for all our employees in 2015 and many of our suppliers are having too as well for their employees so this puts prices up by 1.5% immediately, without any other general raw material and cost increases, this is set to increase over the coming years I am afraid.  As usual the government does not worry how business is going to fund this new system, they just bring it in as a law.
The tree price continues to rise sharper than it should which is due to competitors of ours having not planted enough of their own trees in previous years, the trees that most of our competitors plant are of poor quality and would not even make our grade 2 tree in the planting season. They are bidding for ours trees that we have nurtured and developed by simply offering more money.  In a lot of cases money is all the grower is worried about.  They forget about the service and quality of the replanting scheme we give that far outweighs anything anyone else can do. So we are having to pay more for trees which is as always passed on to the final consumer.
Production has not been what we expected this year, due to both the very wet weather in the winter but also due to the hurricane force wind that went through areas of England in October 2013, you may have seen the photos on our Facebook page. We have lost literally thousands of trees and are still clearing them up now and burning on site anything that is obviously wind damaged.  Even if we are unable to spot it you should to be prepared for some coming through the production but it will be nothing like the number in 1987 when we did not know what to look for. I have rejected some 600 sawn blades so far and we have a heap of trees in the yard that are just being used for products other than clefts, so I can assure you we are taking the matter most seriously. Incidentally our competitors are not being as careful and are processing storm damaged trees, it is not just us who were affected.  We have also been felling this month in flood hit areas from last winter and the ground is still very wet believe it or not.
I have started taking orders for 2015 but currently all we are prepared to offer is the same number and grades that you ordered in 2014, but if you have cancelled any deliveries or reduced your numbers the final reduced quantity delivered will be put down as your order and not the order at the start of the year.  A number of customers cancelled deliveries at the last minute this year and when we have planned cash flow forecasts etc. it does cause us some problems.  We then sell these spare clefts as extras to other customers who will want them again next year.
I will still need to agree any order by email please or in a meeting and if anyone does want to reduce their numbers it will not be a problem.  I was going to reduce everyone’s orders for Grade 1, 1B, 2, 2B, 3, 4 and SS and HMM as we have produced so many less so far this year but I am hoping the ratios will improve in most of these grades so feel it is fairer to leave the numbers as 2014 unless you have reduced as above.  However we did have some stock of Grade 1, 2 and 3 at the start of 2014 from 2013 and this will not be the case this year so there could be more monthly reductions again in those grades.  I will do monthly updates as I have done this year and offer replacements when I can if we do not have the numbers of grades ordered, by being able to do this you can see we are still producing a good number just not in the right grades.

There are 15 different types of cleft available across the board. Wrights try and do the right thing and keep trying to replenish the willow trees but not everyone will be as thoughtful towards the future of willow supplies and just think about the immediate financial rewards and not the longevity. We deal with only 4 grades of willow and that's the top grades. Every one of our junior bats are made from adult clefts. That's why the butterfly1 clefts are so popular as you get great willow at affordable prices.
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Andythomo21

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #515 on: December 10, 2014, 11:45:59 AM »

A very interesting read Paul.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #516 on: December 10, 2014, 11:53:57 AM »

very interesting, it's good to see stuff like this. I know it can be said it's not in the brands interest to release details but I think it's to a brands credit to be open and honest rather than all secretive as most are.
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #517 on: December 10, 2014, 12:55:17 PM »

well I just want people to see how good Jeremy at wrights is towards the industry. after all we are dealing with a natural product and he is limited to what grows and when its ready along with the weather conditions over the lifespan of a tree. what of course makes things more expensive all down the line is minimum wages I guess because even if they have an unskilled worker just sweeping up wherever it may be they have to be paid minimum wage regardless. but at least he is consciences about the future of the willow industry. I know Jeremy at wrights has always been very good to me and advised me very well when I started up and still does so if I need to ask him anything so I trust him. I don't know whether hes the cheapest supplier or not as ive never looked elsewhere but he has always done right by me so loyalty says I stay with him and hopefully for many years to come   
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #518 on: December 10, 2014, 12:57:52 PM »

I don't really see a reason to be secretive. there are always going to be certain things that aren't disclosed but in terms of the manufacturing process and whats behind it and what problems we have, why not it perhaps gives the public a realisation of the problems that small businesses go through to try and attain the quality they do whilst not having multiple investors to give them the financial clout   
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The Palmist

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #519 on: December 10, 2014, 01:54:21 PM »

So a player's grade cleft is graded as players at Wrights or by individual bat makers?
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smokem

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #520 on: December 10, 2014, 02:56:13 PM »

That's pretty obvious if you read the letter. Maybe you knew the answer before even asking...
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #521 on: December 10, 2014, 03:06:41 PM »

Yes you get grade 1 and 1b out of those you get a few absolute stunners which you create a players grade with. These are getting rarer but also doing that covers the manufacturer a little for the amount that he may lose during manufacture as you come across a few that have damage through the cleft that you don't find till you are perhaps half way through shaping. This is a big hit for a manufacturer when you get these. The quality of the grade ones will be dropping too again through demand. Because everything is more accessible the world over the suppliers are not just concentrating on the uk market as the Asian market is far more lucrative. I think it will change though as a lot of industry is coming back here as wage increases and import duties make it less cost effective overseas and you get the added bonus of having access to a face you can visit in your own country if anything is wrong which makes for good customer service as opposed to just sling the bat in the bin and give you another.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 03:43:05 PM by Aldred Cricket Bats »
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The Palmist

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #522 on: December 10, 2014, 04:14:42 PM »

That's pretty obvious if you read the letter. Maybe you knew the answer before even asking...

I assumed that may be the case. Thanks for explaining Paul, Good to see honesty still prevailing in the industry. There is plenty of players grade available in the market though, some not even stunning. Does make me wonder if some retailers/manufactures are exploiting the freedom they have over their own grading system.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #523 on: December 10, 2014, 04:21:41 PM »

If they keep raising prices I can see them killing the market. most of the 'normal' cricketers I know already refuse to spend 200 or more on a bat.. nwo if they are being told that to have anything that even looks liek they've been told is a nice bat they'll have to pay 250/300/500+ in some cases.. it's just another little reason why the game is failing to keep people.. it's just to darn expensive.

not saying you are paul, general statement.
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Butterfly
« Reply #524 on: December 10, 2014, 05:13:41 PM »

If they keep raising prices I can see them killing the market. most of the 'normal' cricketers I know already refuse to spend 200 or more on a bat.. nwo if they are being told that to have anything that even looks liek they've been told is a nice bat they'll have to pay 250/300/500+ in some cases.. it's just another little reason why the game is failing to keep people.. it's just to darn expensive.

not saying you are paul, general statement.

 Well it's a tough one isn't it. I am desperately trying to keep my prices where they are as I think that is more than enough to pay for a bat anyway. But it is difficult as you need to make a living out of it and everything is just going up in price. Have a new design of labels done in this country and they are £1000 easy to start with clefts go up grips increase in price etc it's hard to make a living if you are trying to do everyone right. I am trying to support uk industry which is difficult as it means whatever you do your profit margins are lower as the prices do tend to be more, but the quality is superb. It depends what you want to do. My idea is that I don't want to be dependable on too many people so I can keep this business going long term and the quality high because I'm not answerable to anyone else either materials wise or financially.
 If you look at clothing in the cricket world the emphasis has been for years now in this sweat wicking material whatever it is. I know what it is it's cheap nylon that stinks after you've worn it a few times washed or not and looks shabby very quickly. The fact is it's cheap and therefore people make huge profits on it. What happened to cotton, quality material natural and stayed in great shape for years I've still got shirts from my first year on the staff at derby and still in fine fettle. Granted you couldn't afford to produce the old flannel trousers anymore, they were better quality material than most suits these days.  Why don't we use it? Because it's deemed too expensive, it's not really its just more expensive than nylon therefore profit margin down but they could be done to contend with the rest of the nylon shirts on the market, surridge for example if you took a lesser profit margin.
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